La Liga Superthread 2019/20

MisterAnarchy

ERG89 wrote: »

Even Juventus would be embarrassed to get that penalty decision Real just got. Like who are they fooling??

No one.
7 penalties in 7 straight matches.

From next season onwards, they should start every match 1-0 up, would save alot of trouble.

y0ssar1an22

ERG89 wrote: »

Messi has 23 league goals this season. Looking like it will be his lowest return in well over a decade, has a mental 22 assists too tho.

some free kick!

y0ssar1an22

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

No one.
7 penalties in 7 straight matches.

From next season onwards, they should start every match 1-0 up, would save alot of trouble.

:eek:

were they controversial do you know?

y0ssar1an22

barce losing again. la liga off to Madrid.

although barce result irrelevant with Madrid winning.

Agent Coulson

Maybe ZZ should be called the best manager in the world not Pep.

2 Leagues, 3 Champions Leagues, 2 Spanish Supercups, 2 European Supercups and 2 World Club Cups since 2016.

Edit and that is with also taking a season off.

ERG89

Still can't wrap my head around that pen. Allowing it to be retaken was rather fitting as it was the daftest officiating I've seen all year.

MisterAnarchy

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

:eek:

were they controversial do you know?

The majority of them were .

Mr.Nice Guy

Deserved in the end for Madrid. Very happy for Benzema in particular. I'd like to see him win the POTY award. The fact he's even in the argument with the season Messi had is a testament to his ability.

Corholio

I see 'penalties' is this end of seasons thing against Real. Some lucky ones, but like Barca, a dominant team usually gets quite a few, some deserved some not. Unbelievable run and much more solid even when they had off days, would have been beaten at same stage last season for sure against some of those teams. Zidane sure knows how to set up a team that just desires winning and usually acheives it.

irishguitarlad

Real Madrid get all the decisions while my Betis get absolutely ****ed over by referees, every single game. One rule for the big clubs another for the smaller ones.

HalloweenJack

What now for Barca?

Sacked Valverde when they were top of the league, got their Barca style man and they are not in full flow. Ageing, overpaid team and they'd be a lot worse off if it weren't for Messi.

Need go all out in the CL to avoid a trophyless season.

y0ssar1an22

HalloweenJack wrote: »

What now for Barca?

Sacked Valverde when they were top of the league, got their Barca style man and they are not in full flow. Ageing, overpaid team and they'd be a lot worse off if it weren't for Messi.

Need go all out in the CL to avoid a trophyless season.

their transfers have been a shambles for the most part for a few years now.

they will prob go through a period of stagnation now. they'll prob appoint xavi as manager during the summer

josip

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

their transfers have been a shambles for the most part for a few years now.

they will prob go through a period of stagnation now. they'll prob appoint xavi as manager during the summer

Xavi would probably turn them down like the last time

LineOfBeauty

Xavi shouldn't touch that job until a they fix that squad and a different board is in place.

ERG89

josip wrote: »

Xavi would probably turn them down like the last time

I wonder would Messi publicly ignore a Xavi team talk??

josip

ERG89 wrote: »

I wonder would Messi publicly ignore a Xavi team talk??

I don't think Xavi would take the job while Messi is still there.
It's impossible to manage someone who you've played with.
The relationship is all wrong, and it'll weaken your ability to manage the other players also.
That's not a reflection on either Zavi or Messi, just the way it is.

The Nal

josip wrote: »

It's impossible to manage someone who you've played with.

josip

Not the same.
Xavi played with Messi but Zidane didn't play with Ramos.
Ramos played with Zidane

ERG89

josip wrote: »

I don't think Xavi would take the job while Messi is still there.
It's impossible to manage someone who you've played with.
The relationship is all wrong, and it'll weaken your ability to manage the other players also.
That's not a reflection on either Zavi or Messi, just the way it is.

Pep had managed and played with Xavi and Puyol though. The Messi elephant in the room is a real problem at Barca as he isn't afraid to go to the press with displeasure and his relationship with higher ups at the club is a mess now so you have to negotiate tbrough all that. Plus he's getting older so the team needs to not rely on him so much and maybe shouldn't be dictated to about him wanting Neymar and Suarez around.....its very awkward.

The Nal

josip wrote: »

Not the same.
Xavi played with Messi but Zidane didn't play with Ramos.
Ramos played with Zidane

Ha yes true. Its rare granted but has been done before. Daglish at Liverpool for example. If the player was that good and that respected I don't see why not.

Barca need to start planning for life without Messi now. They clearly haven't so far.

Rakitic 32
Busquets 32
Suarez 33
Messi 33
Alba 31
Vidal 33
Pique 33

etc

Even Braithwaite and Griezmann are pushing 30 now.

NIMAN

Well done to ZZ, they were solid at the business end and got them over the line.

Will be interesting to see if they can put up any fight in the CL now versus City.

Agent Coulson

The Nal wrote: »

Ha yes true. Its rare granted but has been done before. Daglish at Liverpool for example. If the player was that good and that respected I don't see why not.

Barca need to start planning for life without Messi now. They clearly haven't so far.

Rakitic 32
Busquets 32
Suarez 33
Messi 33
Alba 31
Vidal 33
Pique 33

etc

Even Braithwaite and Griezmann are pushing 30 now.

And they swapped 23 year old Arthur for 30 year old Pjanic.

LineOfBeauty

Too indebted to certain superagents, too protective of key players who are past their best at the elite level, too many high wage earners to put together a balanced squad, too reliant on Messi to dig them out everytime, too focused on remaining in power with short term fixes for the board to focus on long term good of the club, too many crooks. Those are some of the problems.

NIMAN

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Too indebted to certain superagents, too protective of key players who are past their best at the elite level, too many high wage earners to put together a balanced squad, too reliant on Messi to dig them out everytime, too focused on remaining in power with short term fixes for the board to focus on long term good of the club, too many crooks. Those are some of the problems.

You're forgetting they are mes que un club.

But will it get them over what looks to be a rocky short term future?

MisterAnarchy

NIMAN wrote: »

Well done to ZZ, they were solid at the business end and got them over the line.

Will be interesting to see if they can put up any fight in the CL now versus City.

Having to score 2 goals could be a bit of an ask .
City are flat track bullies ,no better team to blow it under pressure though.

Francie Barrett

https://twitter.com/FootyHumour/status/1284059185630584832?s=09

Bale couldn't be happier

MisterAnarchy

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Too indebted to certain superagents, too protective of key players who are past their best at the elite level, too many high wage earners to put together a balanced squad, too reliant on Messi to dig them out everytime, too focused on remaining in power with short term fixes for the board to focus on long term good of the club, too many crooks. Those are some of the problems.

The main issue is the board and Bartomeu .
He isnt fit to run a corner shop .

Good article here on the finances at the club and how the wage bill is ridiculously high.
https://www.90min.com/posts/arthur-barcelona-and-the-authoring-of-an-unprecedented-financial-shambles

StringerBell

The video going around of the Madrid players celebrating with Bale on the edge brightened up my morning on this rainy Saturday

NIMAN

StringerBell wrote: »

The video going around of the Madrid players celebrating with Bale on the edge brightened up my morning on this rainy Saturday

Well to be fair, the fact that Bale isn't part of the group or appear comfortable in their company, is solely down to him if the stories are true.

Liberta Per Gli Ultra

The kings of bullshìt economics in football are reaching the end of their endless line of credit.

Bale out would barely dent Real's huge debt (Indo)

It was the briefest hint at the perfect storm gathering around Real that the Spanish media do their best to ignore. The world's biggest football brand is in huge debt and the next set of accounts will give us an idea by exactly how much.

There is, of course, no owner at Madrid to inject funds to stabilise the club unless you count the ordinary members from whom around €10 million in cumulative fees will be raised again this summer. The €120 will be a sacrifice to some ordinary Madridistas, although not the club's unchallenged president, Florentino Perez. He has all the benefit of ownership with none of the cost and, in recent months, Real, as well as Barcelona, have been lobbying the Spanish Government to change the rules that hold directors of sports clubs liable for losses.

Real like to remind us that the club are owned by their fans, but increasingly what those fans own is the debt piled up by the billionaire elected to run it in a one-horse race. More debt accumulates while, on the pitch, the great allure of the tradition and success is a useful diversion.

All of it is a matter of public record. From the bondholders financing the new Bernabeu development, to the American hedge fund that has provided short-term loans, to the transfer debts owed to clubs that have fuelled Real's hunger for star names.

The €575 million Bernabeu redevelopment continues in what might generously be described as a brave call in the current climate. It will not increase capacity by a single standard seat, instead adding hotel and retail space in a Covid era when neither is in demand. What is sure is that it will saddle the next generation of fans with the debt long after Perez has gone: a fixed €29.5m per year for 26 years from 2023.

is_that_so

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

The main issue is the board and Bartomeu .
He isnt fit to run a corner shop .

Good article here on the finances at the club and how the wage bill is ridiculously high.
https://www.90min.com/posts/arthur-barcelona-and-the-authoring-of-an-unprecedented-financial-shambles

I'd say it's the age profile of the players and how much power they've wielded for quite some time. Messi aside they should dump the rest of the oldies, dig into their academy and use sales of the flops to rebuild. Structurally they are a mess but then again so are Real. The big challenge for both is bringing someone into the club who is prepared to address that. It's not quite a "living the dream" implosion at Leeds but for Barca and Real it might as well be.

MisterAnarchy

is_that_so wrote: »

I'd say it's the age profile of the players and how much power they've wielded for quite some time. Messi aside they should dump the rest of the oldies, dig into their academy and use sales of the flops to rebuild. Structurally they are a mess but then again so are Real. The big challenge for both is bringing someone into the club who is prepared to address that. It's not quite a "living the dream" implosion at Leeds but for Barca and Real it might as well be.

Yes the age profile of the team is now very old due to buying poorly over the last decade.
The team last night was tho ldest to ever take the pitch in Champions league history at an average age of over average age of 29 years and 329 days per player.

€954m has been spent on players in the last 5 years .
The club have the highest wage bill in world football.
They are in huge debt.

Players bought:
2015-2016-Aleix Vidal,Arda Turan
2016-2017-Andre Gomes, Paco Alcacer, Samuel Umtiti, Lucas Digne, Jasper Cillessen and Denis Suarez
2017-2018-Dembele, Coutinho, Paulinho, Nelson Semedo, Yerry Mina, Gerard Deulofeu and Marlon
2018-2019-Arthur,Arturo Vidal,Malcom and Clement Lenglet
2019-2020-Antoine Griezmann,Frenkie de Jong,Martin Braithwaite, Neto, Junior Firpo, Emerson and Marc Cucurella

There is some amount of dross in there.
Is there even one signing that you could say was successful ?
Paulinho did well ,Umtiti,Vidal and Lenglet did ok .
De Jong has had a disappointing first season and Griezmann has been a disappointment too.

Arthur was a good signing but they've swapped him for a geriatric Pjanic now to try and balance the books.
The rest have been poor to disastrous.
A blind man throwing darts at a board with names on it would arguably have signed better players .

kksaints

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Yes the age profile of the team is now very old due to buying poorly over the last decade.
The team last night was tho ldest to ever take the pitch in Champions league history at an average age of over average age of 29 years and 329 days per player.

€954m has been spent on players in the last 5 years .
The club have the highest wage bill in world football.
They are in huge debt.

Players bought:
2015-2016-Aleix Vidal,Arda Turan
2016-2017-Andre Gomes, Paco Alcacer, Samuel Umtiti, Lucas Digne, Jasper Cillessen and Denis Suarez
2017-2018-Dembele, Coutinho, Paulinho, Nelson Semedo, Yerry Mina, Gerard Deulofeu and Marlon
2018-2019-Arthur,Arturo Vidal,Malcom and Clement Lenglet
2019-2020-Antoine Griezmann,Frenkie de Jong,Martin Braithwaite, Neto, Junior Firpo, Emerson and Marc Cucurella

There is some amount of dross in there.
Is there even one signing that you could say was successful ?
Paulinho did well ,Umtiti,Vidal and Lenglet did ok .
De Jong has had a disappointing first season and Griezmann has been a disappointment too.

Arthur was a good signing but they've swapped him for a geriatric Pjanic now to try and balance the books.
The rest have been poor to disastrous.
A blind man throwing darts at a board with names on it would arguably have signed better players .

How many of those players have ended up at Everton?

square ball

A big part of the problem last night was Suarez and Messi don't have the legs to go behind or to press high. Meaning Bayern were able to play a super high line and press Barca high up the field. Barca had no outball and space was cut out so couldn't move the ball from defence through midfield up to attack like normal. No width or no pace in midfield or attack.

This has also cost Barca over the last 3 or 4 seasons. Suarez and Messi can't play in the same attack. Suarez legs are completely gone. He barely touched the ball up to when he scored.

Messi needs to go through the middle because he doesn't work without the ball. Too much pressure is put on the rest of the players to cover. Then you can get wide attackers with pace and try and build a team from there.

The board is a joke and have provided no direction and no plan transitioning the team from the successful one. The team and the club have been getting worse and worse every year for the last 4 or 5 and stopped promoting young players.

Thiago should never have been sold. He was a ready made replacement for Xavi or Iniesta. The club needs change from the top down.

MisterAnarchy

square ball wrote: »

A big part of the problem last night was Suarez and Messi don't have the legs to go behind or to press high. Meaning Bayern were able to play a super high line and press Barca high up the field. Barca had no outball and space was cut out so couldn't move the ball from defence through midfield up to attack like normal. No width or no pace in midfield or attack.

This has also cost Barca over the last 3 or 4 seasons. Suarez and Messi can't play in the same attack. Suarez legs are completely gone. He barely touched the ball up to when he scored.

Messi needs to go through the middle because he doesn't work without the ball. Too much pressure is put on the rest of the players to cover. Then you can get wide attackers with pace and try and build a team from there.

The board is a joke and have provided no direction and no plan transitioning the team from the successful one. The team and the club have been getting worse and worse every year for the last 4 or 5 and stopped promoting young players.

Thiago should never have been sold. He was a ready made replacement for Xavi or Iniesta. The club needs change from the top down.

Yes ,there is a serious lack of pace, runners and stamina in the team .
The front 3 were very static last night.
You can't win tournaments without serious pace and runners in a team.

They'd have been better off packing the midfield with Busquets,Rakitic,Arthur,Vidal and De Jong and just play Messi and Suarez up front.
Try and keep it tight .
They literally had no midfield last night De Jong and Busquets too deep and the front 3 were isolated.

Good article by Graham Hunter today
https://www.espn.com/soccer/barcelona/story/4160357/barcelonas-champions-league-humiliation-by-bayern-was-their-own-faultyet-they-didnt-see-it-coming

MisterAnarchy

Ronald Koeman to be the new Barcelona manager according to reports.

JPA

Why don't Barcelona make the same effort to get a manager as they do when signing big name players?
Koeman is decent but that's all he is, certainly a big player for Barca in his time but has not matched his playing career with his managerial achievements.
They seem to lurch from manager to manager with little thought.

MisterAnarchy

JPA wrote: »

Why don't Barcelona make the same effort to get a manager as they do when signing big name players?
Koeman is decent but that's all he is, certainly a big player for Barca in his time but has not matched his playing career with his managerial achievements.
They seem to lurch from manager to manager with little thought.

Its primarily down to the board I'd say.
They usally pick someone that they think will fit the Barcelona DNA and thats not too high profile so they can be manipulated by Bartomeu and his goons.

Koeman usually does well in the first year of a job, and things go pear shaped after that.
A very uninspiring choice.

He does seem to know the weaknesses though, but I guess thats obvious to the dog on the street.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/ronald-koeman-barcelona-coach-manager-22535407

Speaking to Catalan publication Sport in April he highlighted the club's biggest issues.
Asked to point out the 'defects' in the squad, he said: "I see two.
"One, intensity. Like it or not, today the top teams play at a very intense rhythm for the 90 minutes. Barca find it hard to maintain that.
"We saw it in the famous Liverpool game, and in the Spanish Super Cup against Atletico this year (a 3-2 defeat in January).
"Barca were superior for 80 minutes, they disconnected the last 10 and Atletico, fresher and more intense, won."
And then when pressed on the second, he added:
"They don't dominate games like in previous years.
"In that aspect Barca have to get their identity back.
"That's part of their DNA, they've always had control, but a more effective control."

LineOfBeauty

Bartomeu may outlast Messi at Barcelona. You could have somebody actively trying to sabotage the club as President and they'd still do better by Barcelona than Bartomeu has.

josip

If Barcelona want to rebuild for the future, then Messi has to go.
He's not the cause of the current problems, but given his age, it wouldn't be good to build a new team around him.
If some other club is prepared to pay €200m silly money for him, I'd take it if I was Barcelona.
They'll probably p1ss it away on stupid buys, but that's a different issue.

MisterAnarchy

josip wrote: »

If Barcelona want to rebuild for the future, then Messi has to go.
He's not the cause of the current problems, but given his age, it wouldn't be good to build a new team around him.
If some other club is prepared to pay €200m silly money for him, I'd take it if I was Barcelona.
They'll probably p1ss it away on stupid buys, but that's a different issue.

He has one year left on his contract so he can leave for free next summer if he wishes.
Nobody will be paying 200m .

~Rebel~

Yeah, I think the time has passed for Messi to leave... if he was really going to try to forge a new path, the time to go was 2 or 3 years ago. Pretty confident he'll stay there for better or worse at this stage.

He's still a monster of a player, and still putting in massive seasons - it's the rest of the squad they need to reorganise.

Ideally, they'd invite prospective managers to come and talk to them about the existing squad, what they would do to make the most out of what they have, and who is surplus to requirements. For instance, you can't make Messi, Suarez, Dembele, Griezmann, and Coutinho work. You just can't. They all play different games and get in each others way. But maybe you can make Messi, Dembele and Griezmann work as a 3. Or Messi and Griezmann work as a two, with Coutinho shifted back into an attacking midfield role. Or Griezmann and Dembele forward, with Messi playing deeper. I don't know, but there's something that can make use of at least half of that talented squad, so that you can sell the rest and buy players that fit into this new plan.

As huge as Messi's wages are, it's the wages of all the guys that don't fit that are the real problem. Shift them (if they can), and bring in hungrier younger players, and they might get somewhere. Two years with him in a younger, leaner, more hard-running team could be still great. He and his goalscoring and passing are a fantastic off-set for the less experienced backup of Ansu Fati, Puig, De Jong, Lenglet etc.

From Barca's pov, once Messi is gone, he's gone, and there won't be a replacement. They should do everything they can to make the most out of him while he's still there.

is_that_so

According to Marca, he's told them he wants to leave, by fax!

https://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2020/08/25/5f454932268e3e17088b4578.html