Would you date a woman who earns considerably more than you?

ILoveYourVibes

eviltwin wrote: »

He's one of a kind. I'm lucky to have him

GODDAMMIT!

ILoveYourVibes

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm asking.

You have to be the one call but not to bother. You have to give more than you take. Or at least it will seem like that.

You have to NEED her.

You have to be rather selfless and not resent it.

Don't be drama but stick with her through drama.

Accept her.

Be fun. Be intelligent.

Respect her talk to her like she is intelligent.

And don't be a doormat. But do be less selfish. be the first to forgive.

CalamariFritti

Wouldn't enter the equation tbh.

There are certain limits of course. I couldn't see my self dating some lazy ass bum or on the other side some rich neo-lib workaholic. But in between these extremes there's plenty of room and I wouldn't care either way. I'm assured enough in my skin not to derive my self worth from my income.

Now to the real hard question. Would you date a woman who is better at sports than you?

Reviews and Books Galore

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Treat a high earning woman like a princess.

Treat a beautiful woman like a princess. 9 out of ten times it will work eventually.

That is not good advice. Treating a woman like a higher citizen is an awful idea as women want s good father/ partner who will not see the woman as a deity and will be able to argue with her and handle his own business.

Women want partners. Do they want a boy who will get freaked out at female anger? No, they want a man who will treat her like an equal and discuss the issue. Do they want a guy who is blessing every rare second they have with this deity of a creature? No, they want man who they can live with in close confines and accept their flaws.

I'm wondering is what you said more true in Slavic countries?

paddydriver

Where is it that the bear sh1ts...

No problem whatsoever. Would be great to be a kept man.. though I am sure she'd make my life misery in return for how she perceives that I have treated her for the last 20 years..

Wibbs

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

True if you see it like that i don't. But its true to you as its your perception.

More my experience.

I think its why traditionally it was the women's role.

I have no clue what this means.

KathleenGrant wrote: »

You know nothing about me or my life. I have choices. I have a great job, great personality *even though I do say so myself* and am reasonably attractive. I am the opposite of shallow. Physical appearance means nothing to me. I like people who are caring, thoughtful and kind. Don't judge people by your own standards or experiences Wibbs.

If physical appearance "means nothing" to you, you are an extremely rare individual indeed.

Leg End Reject

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm asking.

I think Wibbs nailed it with the doormat comment. You know the "nice guy" who trots behind you like an obedient puppy and always agrees with you?

In my experience they lack confidence and eventually you'll get both barrels of passive aggressive assholery flung at you when they eventually speak up.

You want someone who's not afraid to voice their own opinions and be their own person.

Sardonicat

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You have to be the one call but not to bother. You have to give more than you take. Or at least it will seem like that.

You have to NEED her.

You have to be rather selfless and not resent it.

Don't be drama but stick with her through drama.

Accept her.

Be fun. Be intelligent.

Respect her talk to her like she is intelligent.

And don't be a doormat. But do be less selfish. be the first to forgive.

So talking to a woman 'like' she's intelligent is and accepting her is treating her like a princess. There was I thinking that was basically respect!

Why should a man call first and give more than they take ?

eviltwin

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You have to be the one call but not to bother. You have to give more than you take. Or at least it will seem like that.

You have to NEED her.

You have to be rather selfless and not resent it.

Don't be drama but stick with her through drama.

Accept her.

Be fun. Be intelligent.

Respect her talk to her like she is intelligent.

And don't be a doormat. But do be less selfish. be the first to forgive.

Is that what you are looking for in a man?

Wibbs

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

I'm wondering is what you said more true in Slavic countries?

Not in my experience anyway. Now you can't paint a bunch of countries and cultures with a broad brush, but if you were to, they tend to be more traditional as far as gender roles and perceptions go and men putting women on a pedestal like that wouldn't get very far at all. Unless she was one of those women looking for a rube or a sugar daddy.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You have to be the one call but not to bother. You have to give more than you take. Or at least it will seem like that.

You have to NEED her.

You have to be rather selfless and not resent it.

Don't be drama but stick with her through drama.

Accept her.

Be fun. Be intelligent.

Respect her talk to her like she is intelligent.

And don't be a doormat. But do be less selfish. be the first to forgive.

Jesus H... Some of this is about the worst advice I've read. Have you ever been in a relationship? It reads like treating a grown woman like a pretty child for a start. "talk to her like she is intelligent". Like she's intelligent? Again sounds like patronising a child. Why in god's name would anyone want to be with someone like that? Ah bless, folks she thinks she's people. But she's a ride, so I suppose what are you gonna do? Give more than you take? Feck that noise. Men, be a live support system for a vacuous bimbo. Or not. I'd suggest not.

ILoveYourVibes

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

I'm wondering is what you said more true in Slavic countries?

Slavic countries and Asian countries have a lot in common when it comes to those values.

But my Irish guy friend had to buy his chinese wife a house before her parents would give him their blessing. She works and has a great job etc. Well is on maternity leave now and its unsure if she will go back to work.

My Asian guy friend ( whom i once dated) is very much 'I want to be the earner i want to romance you', it often was too much for Irish women. He ended up married to a Russian woman. Their values are similar. She gets him in a way i didn't at the time. She rarely leaves the house without him.

I love those guys and those women. They are my closest friends and wonderful people. I know them pretty well and what they think.

Russia partic eastern russia is REALLY traditional.

In china for men to even FIND a woman is hard. That is why i thought it was weird you thought they were dating foreign men. Unless they have immigrated i was wondering why? You realize China has the most skewed gender ratio in the world??
A pretty girl with a decent education has so many guys to choose from. You can tell too. They value themselves a lot and their families value them.


I am not saying all women from those countries are the same. But there are definitely differences.

China is still hard for women to actually make up the corporate ladder anyway. Harder than here. Gender-based wage stratification has become a major issue in post-reform China.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Not in my experience anyway. Now you can't paint a bunch of countries and cultures with a broad brush, but if you were to, they tend to be more traditional as far as gender roles and perceptions go and men putting women on a pedestal like that wouldn't get very far at all.

Jesus H... Some of this is about the worst advice I've read. Have you ever been in a relationship? It reads like treating a grown woman like a pretty child for a start. "talk to her like she is intelligent". Like she's intelligent? Again sounds like patronising a child. Why in god's name would anyone want to be with someone like that? Ah bless, folks she thinks she's people. But she's a ride, so I suppose what are you gonna do? Give more than you take? Feck that noise. Men, be a live support system for a vacuous bimbo. Or not. I'd suggest not.

who's a clever girl! who is! you are! yesyouare!

ILoveYourVibes

bluewolf wrote: »

who's a clever girl! who is! you are! yesyouare!

I would suggest slightly more nuance. But that's the spirit! :P

Wibbs

bluewolf wrote: »

who's a clever girl! who is! you are! yesyouare!

the scratch behind the ear is optional.

ILoveYourVibes

Wibbs wrote: »

the scratch behind the ear is optional.

Mans best friend

Wibbs

Thinking more on the Eastern European, Russian, Ukrainian women I've known, there was a small subset of them who were very into the whole princess thing. They treated their men as ATM's and social standing markers as much as men. Around them they acted like giggling girlie types, never out of heels and slap and lived in the gym, giving and withdrawing affection when useful and throwing in drama when required to keep their suckers boyfriends in tow. And it was an act as they could be quite different not around the guys they were with.

ILoveYourVibes

Leg End Reject wrote: »

I think Wibbs nailed it with the doormat comment. You know the "nice guy" who trots behind you like an obedient puppy and always agrees with you?

In my experience they lack confidence and eventually you'll get both barrels of passive aggressive assholery flung at you when they eventually speak up.

You want someone who's not afraid to voice their own opinions and be their own person.

Some women might want that. Obviously you adapt slightly or try to for the situation and personalities. Nothing extreme either way.

Sardonicat

Wibbs wrote: »

the scratch behind the ear is optional.

Prefer a belly tickle myself. But I don't let on. Have to make them earn it with plenty of Princess treats, suckers!

ILoveYourVibes

Wibbs wrote: »

Thinking more on the Eastern European, Russian, Ukrainian women I've known, there was a small subset of them who were very into the whole princess thing. They treated their men as ATM's and social standing markers as much as men. Around them they acted like giggling girlie types, never out of heels and slap and lived in the gym, giving and withdrawing affection when useful and throwing in drama when required to keep their suckers boyfriends in tow. And it was an act as they could be quite different not around the guys they were with.

Every eastern European woman and man I have known. Go to Ukraine.

Don't judge it. You can't apply your values to another culture.

If its not for you...then don't do it.

each to their own.

ILoveYourVibes

Sardonicat wrote: »

Prefer a belly tickle myself. But I don't let on. Have to make them earn it with plenty of Princess treats, suckers!

Its mutual training. She's training you ..you're training her

Leg End Reject

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Some women might want that. Obviously you adapt slightly or try to for the situation and personalities. Nothing extreme either way.

So you change who you are depending on who you're with?

Man, being a princess must be complicated.

ILoveYourVibes

Leg End Reject wrote: »

So you change who you are depending on who you're with?

Just for life nothing to do with romance ..yes. Yet somehow i am always me.

Reviews and Books Galore

Wibbs wrote: »

Not in my experience anyway. Now you can't paint a bunch of countries and cultures with a broad brush, but if you were to, they tend to be more traditional as far as gender roles and perceptions go and men putting women on a pedestal like that wouldn't get very far at all. Unless she was one of those women looking for a rube or a sugar daddy.

I'm going to disagree here a little bit. A lot of Slavic countries definetly have a thing of the woman as mother, and there is quite a lot of female superiority complex going on. It's split between the catholic slavic countries and orthodox countries with the catholic countries actually being like Iloveyourvibes describing. Really, I **** you not. The Orthodox countries have a bit more bluster going on, but the 'real men' are still controlled by their wives.

Wibbs wrote: »

Thinking more on the Eastern European, Russian, Ukrainian women I've known, there was a small subset of them who were very into the whole princess thing. They treated their men as ATM's and social standing markers as much as men. Around them they acted like giggling girlie types, never out of heels and slap and lived in the gym, giving and withdrawing affection when useful and throwing in drama when required to keep their suckers boyfriends in tow. And it was an act as they could be quite different not around the guys they were with.

I see what you mean. They don't want the man to be an atm, otherwise they lose all respect for him, but they do want the man to devote everything to them. They kind of want the man to be blessing god to have them and always feel lucky.



Whenever I tell Central or Eastern European women that I have moved to their country (in the past and present) they usually comment with pride on how 'beautiful' the countries women are :P I didn't really find it suprising until I was talking to one of my exes and she was so annoyed at them as a woman if that makes any sense. Just a funny situation.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You have to be the one call but not to bother. You have to give more than you take. Or at least it will seem like that.

You have to NEED her.

You have to be rather selfless and not resent it.

Don't be drama but stick with her through drama.

Accept her.

Be fun. Be intelligent.

Respect her talk to her like she is intelligent.

And don't be a doormat. But do be less selfish. be the first to forgive.

I wouldn't judge ILoveYourVibes too harshly here. This is entirely true in regards to the country that I think Iloveyourvibes is from. The attitude towards Ukraine was the final puzzle piece



Really, it is true for the country in my head. The women actually like having the man have a bit of a mother issue vibe towards all women. It's really hard to explain, but I think one example will help.



It's quite common to see women in the country that I am talking about throw a bit of an angry strop and power walk away. The man will then look horrified and concerned and then run after her to 'calm her down' and apologize for bad behaviour.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Every eastern European woman and man I have known. Go to Ukraine.

Don't judge it. You can't apply your values to another culture.

If its not for you...then don't do it.

each to their own.

I actually think the Ukranian women are quite salt of the earth. Sure, they do expect the mine to pay for meals, but, otherwise, they really remind me of Irish women in regards to how normal they are around men. As in, you can tell that they have brothers and male friends, and don't quite see them as foreign creatures. I actually think the Ukranina fawn over an attractive man as much as Irish women do. It's great.

But there may be a west and east divide going on.

Sardonicat

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its mutual training. She's training you ..you're training her

I'm female. And I don't train my partner or vice versa.

ILoveYourVibes

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm female. And I don't train my partner or vice versa.

It was a joke.

Fourier

My reading of the research is that when couples are analysed most are correlated in attractiveness when reviewed by external parties.

The correlation is hard to put straight into words but roughly speaking on a 10 point scale they fall within 3 units of each other >90% of the time.

IQ comes out with roughly the same relation.

Sociopathic nature and strength of hetreosexuality come next, with people being even less likely to deviate from their own group on these points.

Educational attainment is the strongest. People are much less likely to date outside their educational group long term.

The overall picture is that on average people look for a moderate level of attractiveness within their type first and then are more likely to enter into a long term in order of Education, Hetreosexuality, Sociopathy and IQ. These come before extreme attractiveness within their type.

Note this is on average. Some people are mainly concerned with attractiveness, others much more concerned with IQ.

But almost all require somebody to be at least "ok" within your type. Most couples who seem very at odds look wise are often explained by the more generically attractive partner having an uncommon "type" rather than being unconcerned with looks.

A funny fact. Men assess friends closer to how they assess partners than women do.

This is a summary of the research of Alan Feingold and other papers arising from it.

KathleenGrant

Wibbs wrote: »

More my experience. I have no clue what this means.

If physical appearance "means nothing" to you, you are an extremely rare individual indeed.

Ah come on. Surely I am not alone in this. You make it sound like I am lying.

ILoveYourVibes

KathleenGrant wrote: »

Ah come on. Surely I am not alone in this. You make it sound like I am lying.

I don't think you are lying. Everyone is different.

ILoveYourVibes

Fourier wrote: »

My reading of the research is that when couples are analysed most are correlated in attractiveness when reviewed by external parties.

The correlation is hard to put straight into words but roughly speaking on a 10 point scale they fall within 3 units of each other >90% of the time.

IQ comes out with roughly the same relation.

Sociopathic nature and strength of hetreosexuality come next, with people being even less likely to deviate from their own group on these points.

Educational attainment is the strongest. People are much less likely to date outside their educational group long term.

The overall picture is that on average people look for a moderate level of attractiveness within their type first and then are more likely to enter into a long term in order of Education, Hetreosexuality, Sociopathy and IQ. These come before extreme attractiveness within their type.

Note this is on average. Some people are mainly concerned with attractiveness, others much more concerned with IQ.

But almost all require somebody to be at least "ok" within your type. Most couples who seem very at odds look wise are often explained by the more generically attractive partner having an uncommon "type" rather than being unconcerned with looks.

A funny fact. Men assess friends closer to how they assess partners than women do.

This is a summary of the research of Alan Feingold and other papers arising from it.

Verrry interrrestink!

KathleenGrant

KathleenGrant wrote: »

Ah come on. Surely I am not alone in this. You make it sound like I am lying.

You are alone... Never met anyone who put no value on looks. Met plenty who said they put no value on looks but it wasn't true.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

You are alone... Never met anyone who put no value on looks. Met plenty who said they put no value on looks but it wasn't true.

I can believe this too.

ILoveYourVibes

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

I'm going to disagree here a little bit. A lot of Slavic countries definetly have a thing of the woman as mother, and there is quite a lot of female superiority complex going on. It's split between the catholic slavic countries and orthodox countries with the catholic countries actually being like Iloveyourvibes describing. Really, I **** you not. The Orthodox countries have a bit more bluster going on, but the 'real men' are still controlled by their wives.






I see what you mean. They don't want the man to be an atm, otherwise they lose all respect for him, but they do want the man to devote everything to them. They kind of want the man to be blessing god to have them and always feel lucky.



Whenever I tell Central or Eastern European women that I have moved to their country (in the past and present) they usually comment with pride on how 'beautiful' the countries women are :P I didn't really find it suprising until I was talking to one of my exes and she was so annoyed at them as a woman if that makes any sense. Just a funny situation.






I wouldn't judge ILoveYourVibes too harshly here. This is entirely true in regards to the country that I think Iloveyourvibes is from. The attitude towards Ukraine was the final puzzle piece



Really, it is true for the country in my head. The women actually like having the man have a bit of a mother issue vibe towards all women. It's really hard to explain, but I think one example will help.



It's quite common to see women in the country that I am talking about throw a bit of an angry strop and power walk away. The man will then look horrified and concerned and then run after her to 'calm her down' and apologize for bad behaviour.



I actually think the Ukranian women are quite salt of the earth. Sure, they do expect the mine to pay for meals, but, otherwise, they really remind me of Irish women in regards to how normal they are around men. As in, you can tell that they have brothers and male friends, and don't quite see them as foreign creatures. I actually think the Ukranina fawn over an attractive man as much as Irish women do. It's great.

But there may be a west and east divide going on.

U got it pretty much this is it.

People should just go for who they like and likes them back though whatever their reasons for choosing.

banie01

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

I'd love to be a stay at home father. I took care of my siblings growing up smd it was quite a happy time tbh.

Maybe I should hitch up with an Irish lass :P

Try and find yourself one with a manufacturers warranty tho

My 1st one packed in and dropped dead at 26!

KathleenGrant

banie01 wrote: »

Try and find yourself one with a manufacturers warranty tho

My 1st one packed in and dropped dead at 26!

Love your heartbroken way of putting it.

banie01

KathleenGrant wrote: »

Love your heartbroken way of putting it.

Should you wish to peruse my litany of melancholy, please feel free to take a look over P.I and Bereavement forums.

As for my heartbroken way of putting it, don't presume to think that because 12yrs later I've learnt to deal with pain, with a little dark humour
That my loss has diminished, my grief is over or that my loss isn't real.

This is AH, light hearted and fun for the most part, funnily enough sometimes I do like to fit the tone of my post to the majority of the audience.
But thanks for the judgement

KathleenGrant

banie01 wrote: »

Should you wish to peruse my litany of melancholy, please feel free to take a look over P.I and Bereavement forums.

As for my heartbroken way of putting it, don't presume to think that because 12yrs later I've learnt to deal with pain, with a little dark humour
That my loss has diminished, my grief is over or that my loss isn't real.

This is AH, light hearted and fun for the most part, funnily enough sometimes I do like to fit the tone of my post to the majority of the audience.
But thanks for the judgement

I absolutely apologise. I did judge and that was totally wrong of me.

banie01

KathleenGrant wrote: »

I absolutely apologise. I did judge and that was totally wrong of me.

Thanks, it's appreciated and nice to see on here

ILoveYourVibes

Im sorry Banie.

That is such a tragedy.

banie01

banie01 wrote: »

Thanks, it's appreciated and nice to see on here

Massive thanks to Kathleen grant but for the above and the PM.

Believe me, no harm, no foul!

Tis my gallows humour that's more the problem
I stand by my poor taste joke tho!
Tis one of the few upsides of being widowed young
Sometimes being a little bit of a comedic asshole, and making other people feel bad for it...

I did say earlier in this thread tho, that I'm not as charming or as funny as I like to think I am

Case in point

One eyed Jack

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

That is not good advice. Treating a woman like a higher citizen is an awful idea as women want s good father/ partner who will not see the woman as a deity and will be able to argue with her and handle his own business.

Women want partners. Do they want a boy who will get freaked out at female anger? No, they want a man who will treat her like an equal and discuss the issue. Do they want a guy who is blessing every rare second they have with this deity of a creature? No, they want man who they can live with in close confines and accept their flaws.

I'm wondering is what you said more true in Slavic countries?

I’m wondering is what you said true in any country? :pac:

Because what you’ve written above appears to be centred entirely around yourself and what you think women want, as opposed to allowing for the blatantly obvious fact that women, like men, have their own ideas about what they do or don’t want.

Some women do want what you describe above. Some men want to be what you describe above. I’ve known plenty of healthy relationships like it where the dynamics just work for them, they’re fulfilled and they’re happy and while their relationship dynamics wouldn’t be for me, I’m happy for them that they’ve found each other.

I tend to over-analyse things an awful lot so I prefer to be around someone who makes me laugh. I can’t talk to women I’m not physically attracted to (shallow as a puddle me, be the first to admit it ) so I have an awful lot more time for a woman who just likes to have fun and doesn’t want to probe my brain or “have me treat her like an equal”. That type of woman would simply wreck my brain, and they do, I’ve met plenty of those types of women too.

That’s why I don’t think these things can be boiled down to one single factor such as whether or not their date is wealthy, or physically attractive, or is into kink or any of the rest of it. That’s why the stuff you describe above honestly has a woeful whiff of PUA off it for it’s unrealistic portrayal of “what women want” as though they all want the same kind of guy and being that guy will lead to “more success with the ladies”.

The OP simply asked would guys here have a problem with dating a woman who earns more than them. The kind of guy who would have a problem with it, would be unlikely to admit it in the first place, and would be even more unlikely to be attracted to a woman who earns more than them anyway. They wouldn’t be likely to be attracted to women who made them feel in any way inferior about themselves, so I do understand where the OP was coming from in observing the trend among the guys she knows who spend a lot of their time in the gym.

Fourier

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I can’t talk to women I’m not physically attracted to.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, do you mean in general? Like you only are at ease talking to women you fancy or men?

Leg End Reject

Fourier wrote: »

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, do you mean in general? Like you only are at ease talking to women you fancy or men?

Yeah I'm imagining "don't you dare talk to me you ugly wench", so something must have gotten lost between brain and screen.

ILoveYourVibes

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m wondering is what you said true in any country? :pac:

.

Culture is a reality. American dating culture is different to Irish dating culture.

I can’t talk to women I’m not physically attracted to

Then you shouldn't.

One eyed Jack

Fourier wrote: »

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, do you mean in general? Like you only are at ease talking to women you fancy or men?

Yeah, in general. That’s pretty much it, I’m only at ease when I’m talking to women I find attractive. I’m not attracted to guys so it’s not an issue there, but if I have to talk to a woman I don’t find attractive, I get very uneasy and uncomfortable in their company because I’d rather not be there.

One eyed Jack

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Yeah I'm imagining "don't you dare talk to me you ugly wench", so something must have gotten lost between brain and screen.

No no, jesus not like that at all :pac:

ILoveYourVibes

One eyed Jack wrote: »

No no, jesus not like that at all :pac:

Shame it would be so funny!:pac:

anewme

Bonkers stuff.

I’m falling round laughing here.

That’s exactly what you said.

“Yawn...bore off with your ugly mug.. Your face is assaulting my eyes.”

Fourier

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yeah, in general. That’s pretty much it, I’m only at ease when I’m talking to women I find attractive. I’m not attracted to guys so it’s not an issue there, but if I have to talk to a woman I don’t find attractive, I get very uneasy and uncomfortable in their company because I’d rather not be there.

Right, interesting. Would a woman you don't fancy not basically be the same as talking to a man though. What makes you feel uncomfortable?

One eyed Jack

anewme wrote: »

Bonkers stuff.

I’m falling round laughing here.

I’m just grateful it doesn’t come up that often because it’s genuinely embarrassing and I have no idea where it comes from I’d never mean it in a malicious way though or anything, I just clam up and can’t make eye contact and pray that they don’t make a thing of it because it’s bloody obvious I’m uncomfortable and I don’t want them to take it personally, it’s entirely on me like

Fourier

Well thanks for explaining Jack.