Just bought a Gen 1 leaf. First EV car

rolion

The grant is valid for installations that exceed €600,otherwise less than will not be paid.
The paper form needs sections completed with price of the parts and with the cost of labour.

Black_Knight

rolion wrote: »

The grant is valid for installations that exceed €600,otherwise less than will not be paid.
The paper form needs sections completed with price of the parts and with the cost of labour.

Really? Less than 600 and it's not covered. I don't believe you!

Edit. Checked it out. It pays up to 600 euro. Obviously "up to" includes everything less than and up to 600 euro.

McGiver

obi604 wrote: »

McGiver wrote: »

No, if plan to stick with EVs. Which almost every owner does. The difference in price is negligible AFAIK so 32A is the one to go for.

I thought you couldn't install a charger due to renting / landlord issue?

I’m just looking at the options.

1. Buy this for 120. And get the electrician to install. And use grant, should all be covered under grant.

2. Install an external weatherproof 3 pin plug and use with granny charger. Don’t think any fancy cabling needed here like in 1 above or am I wrong? I’m hoping this install would be a lot cheaper than 1 above.

Thing is, I am only renting this house. so any cabling that’s done will not really be for my long term benefit, so I’m trying to get it done in the cheapest way possible.

Option 2 is 100 quid + waterproof lockable socket 20 quid. Will the landlord allow it?

obi604

McGiver wrote: »

Option 2 is 100 quid + waterproof lockable socket 20 quid. Will the landlord allow it?

He will more a less slow both options. Can option 2 really be done for 100 quid. I’m mailing electricians and they are coming with quotes of 400+.

I have specifically told them it’s only an external weatherproof socket I want but in some replies, they are on about priority swicthes, isolator switches etc.

Others saying a 3 pin plug will not work and it needs the proper ‘charge point’ install.

kanuseeme

Get the electrician to install a 16 amp camping socket outside like so..https://www.seaflo-uk.com/16-amp-plug-and-socket-cable-hook-up-ip44-waterproof-motorhome-caravan-camping-10043-p.asp

get the 16 amp charger, and small length of wire and attach the plug to it. Screw charger unit to wall beside the socket, when you move house unplug and unscrew and bring it with you.

No need for priority switches, if its 16 amp.

Cost of brand new charger 340 pounds https://www.amazon.co.uk/Electric-EV-Universal-commercial-manufactured/dp/B01MZBKMKU , materials 150 euro labour 100 euro or more, total is over 600

cough, cough,

obi604

kanuseeme wrote: »

Get the electrician to install a 16 amp camping socket outside like so..https://www.seaflo-uk.com/16-amp-plug-and-socket-cable-hook-up-ip44-waterproof-motorhome-caravan-camping-10043-p.asp

get the 16 amp charger, and small length of wire and attach the plug to it. Screw charger unit to wall beside the socket, when you move house unplug and unscrew and bring it with you.

No need for priority switches, if its 16 amp.

Cost of brand new charger 340 pounds https://www.amazon.co.uk/Electric-EV-Universal-commercial-manufactured/dp/B01MZBKMKU , materials 150 euro labour 100 euro or more, total is over 600

cough, cough,

In regard to the camping thing - when you say “get the 16 amp charger” do you mean the proper home charger solution?

kanuseeme

Yes proper home charger.

The socket and plug can handle 16 amps.

You said you can get a 16 amp charger, rented accommodation, problems with priority switching, not wanting to spend money, etc.

Your car can only handle 3.7 kw. Your next car could be 6.6 kw or even 11 kw charging

But if you use the 32 amp charger you will need to get priority switches, better cabling etc.

A 16 amp charger will be 50% or a little more faster than the granny charger and its all you need for now.

The granny charger cable can break, my one did,

handofdog

Something else to consider would be how easy would it be for someone to steal the charging/granny cable?

These cables are approx €200+ so they can be a nice lucrative simple theft. I've seen some posts on boards where people claim this has happened.

I'm looking into tethered units and also smart untethered units that lock.

If anyone else has other security suggestions then I'd welcome them. Thanks.

kanuseeme

+ 1 tethered, very handy,

obi604

kanuseeme wrote: »

Yes proper home charger.

The socket and plug can handle 16 amps.

You said you can get a 16 amp charger, rented accommodation, problems with priority switching, not wanting to spend money, etc.

Your car can only handle 3.7 kw. Your next car could be 6.6 kw or even 11 kw charging

But if you use the 32 amp charger you will need to get priority switches, better cabling etc.

A 16 amp charger will be 50% or a little more faster than the granny charger and its all you need for now.

The granny charger cable can break, my one did,

Right. So buy something like this: https://www.adverts.ie/18503556 ( a 16 amp single phase)

And because this is 16 amp I don’t need to bother with priority switches etc. and the cabling to it does not need to be specialised.


And you reckon its best to do this with the round caravan type socket as opposed to hard wiring the charger.

How would the charger plug in to this round type socket ?

kanuseeme

Put a plug on the Unit,

the charger plug you need for charging the car.

I really think you should get an electrician in. the grant will cover it all, make sure you put the price of a New Charger Unit on the paper work.

obi604

kanuseeme wrote: »

Put a plug on the Unit,

the charger plug you need for charging the car.

I really think you should get an electrician in. the grant will cover it all, make sure you put the price of a New Charger Unit on the paper work.

Oh I am definite getting an electrician in to do this as I have no clue. But I don’t want to waste the grant as I may soon be moving. so looking to do a temporary setup.

Suppose could always hardwire the 16amp charger unit, then at time of moving swap it with a 3 pin plug. Would this work?

kanuseeme

My idea was, get the electrician to put a plug on the charging unit.

install a socket,

When you "leave" unplug the charging unit and unscrew it from the wall.

It will only cost you wiring and a socket.

Same installation in the "new house".

Dardania

kanuseeme wrote: »

My idea was, get the electrician to put a plug on the charging unit.

install a socket,

When you "leave" unplug the charging unit and unscrew it from the wall.

It will only cost you wiring and a socket.

Same installation in the "new house".

I am going to consider this approach too when I go EV. Let’s you experiment with different EVSE units - saw a guy on YouTube doing the same testing some alibaba EVSEs

obi604

kanuseeme wrote: »

My idea was, get the electrician to put a plug on the charging unit.

install a socket,

When you "leave" unplug the charging unit and unscrew it from the wall.

It will only cost you wiring and a socket.

Same installation in the "new house".

How hard is it to install a plug on the charging unit? From the quotes I am getting , they’ll probably quote me 100 euro to do this bit !!

Could it be an option to hardwire it, then when you leave replace it with an external 3 pin plug?

kanuseeme

Live, Neutral and Earth.

The same as your 3 pin plug, its just they are rated 16 amp.

Yes you could hard wire it and replace it with an external 3 pin.

Or just do it from the start, maybe you have to make a quick get away

obi604

kanuseeme wrote: »

Live, Neutral and Earth.

The same as your 3 pin plug, its just they are rated 16 amp.

Yes you could hard wire it and replace it with an external 3 pin.

Or just do it from the start, maybe you have to make a quick get away

Can you come down and do this for me?!?

Does anybody know an electrician in Galway that would do this? And not charge 500 Euro for what sounds like a relatively simple exercise. Maybe 2 hours work?

McGiver

obi604 wrote: »

kanuseeme wrote: »

Live, Neutral and Earth.

The same as your 3 pin plug, its just they are rated 16 amp.

Yes you could hard wire it and replace it with an external 3 pin.

Or just do it from the start, maybe you have to make a quick get away

Can you come down and do this for me?!?

Does anybody know an electrician in Galway that would do this? And not charge 500 Euro for what sounds like a relatively simple exercise. Maybe 2 hours work?

Electricians are pain in the arse. They won't turn up for small jobs. Hard to get them to do it if it's not 500 quid job. You have to call and call and bother them.
You're better off getting it done via someone who has electrician friend otherwise it's really hard.

And on the quotes - never ever mention it's for electric car charging. They smell money and the gov grant and rip you off - it's sad but the reality unfortunately. Just say you want external waterproof 3-pin plug for a mower or something like that.

obi604

McGiver wrote: »

Electricians are pain in the arse. They won't turn up for small jobs. Hard to get them to do it if it's not 500 quid job. You have to call and call and bother them.
You're better off getting it done via someone who has electrician friend otherwise it's really hard.

And on the quotes - never ever mention it's for electric car charging. They smell money and the gov grant and rip you off - it's sad but the reality unfortunately. Just say you want external waterproof 3-pin plug for a mower or something like that.

This is it exactly. Some of them are giving me stupid quotes. I ask them basic questions like what is your hourly rate and how much are the parts and hear nothing. In my job, I am paid by the hour not some figure I pull out of my arse.

To me it seems like a 2 or 3 hour job. And when they look for 500 Euro for this, it just maddens me.

Ideal situation would be to get them to install the 16 amp electric car charger unit without complicated cabling. Or instead install an external 3 pin plug. But trying to get someone to quote me a realistic price on this is frustrating. It annoys me that a relatively simple job gets a 500 Euro fee. Ridiculous.

handofdog

obi604 wrote: »

This is it exactly. Some of them are giving me stupid quotes. I ask them basic questions like what is your hourly rate and how much are the parts and hear nothing. In my job, I am paid by the hour not some figure I pull out of my arse.

To me it seems like a 2 or 3 hour job. And when they look for 500 Euro for this, it just maddens me.

Ideal situation would be to get them to install the 16 amp electric car charger unit without complicated cabling. Or instead install an external 3 pin plug. But trying to get someone to quote me a realistic price on this is frustrating. It annoys me that a relatively simple job gets a 500 Euro fee. Ridiculous.

Try tradesmen.ie. I got a quote of approx €80 for the installation of external weatherproof socket from RECI registered spark. Adding on other jobs made this cheaper. Worth a shot.

obi604

handofdog wrote: »

Try tradesmen.ie. I got a quote of approx €80 for the installation of external weatherproof socket from RECI registered spark. Adding on other jobs made this cheaper. Worth a shot.

True yeah. Worth a shot.

obi604

handofdog wrote: »

Try tradesmen.ie. I got a quote of approx €80 for the installation of external weatherproof socket from RECI registered spark. Adding on other jobs made this cheaper. Worth a shot.

Thanks.

Would installing a 16 amp car charger like below involve the same amount of work as installing an external weatherproof socket?

https://www.adverts.ie/18503556


Or is the 16 amp car charger more complicated. Just want to be sure before they start trying to bullsh1t me.

rolion

Guys...you are playing with the fire here... if the cable overheats and / or fails to trip the fuse or the RCB, game on with your life and or with your car.

Grant is being paid ONLY if done properly according to RECI standards.
Photos of the installation will be taken and sent over to SEAI for payment, thats a requirement.
If changes done after photo, is your game but the electrician will test all cables for earth and isolation and short-circuit times and then sign the compliance certificate....

Its not a 1 hour job. While I don't fully agree or understand on some of the prices, its a half day or maybe full day "lost" so that makes the €300 - €500 charges.

And to pay 120 for a charger and then few quid's for a part and claim that from a grant of €600 looks and feels stupid.
I've unsubscribed on this thread, I'm just too poor to pay something twice.
Be good...and good luck.

charlieIRL

Another point worth noting that if you wire this all up yourself and something unfortunately goes wrong - where do you stand with insurance?

I’d be getting an expert in chargers to for one, they are insured and certified.

kanuseeme

I believe the OP is getting an expert, suggestions were for a camping socket, rated for such use to connect to the charger.

As mentioned, when the expert hears grant, expert becomes a financial wizard also

obi604

rolion wrote: »

Guys...you are playing with the fire here... if the cable overheats and / or fails to trip the fuse or the RCB, game on with your life and or with your car.

Grant is being paid ONLY if done properly according to RECI standards.
Photos of the installation will be taken and sent over to SEAI for payment, thats a requirement.
If changes done after photo, is your game but the electrician will test all cables for earth and isolation and short-circuit times and then sign the compliance certificate....

Its not a 1 hour job. While I don't fully agree or understand on some of the prices, its a half day or maybe full day "lost" so that makes the €300 - €500 charges.

And to pay 120 for a charger and then few quid's for a part and claim that from a grant of €600 looks and feels stupid.
I've unsubscribed on this thread, I'm just too poor to pay something twice.
Be good...and good luck.

I hear what your saying. I am trying to do this without the grant as I am in a rented house. I want to use the grant for when I move to my “new house” in a few months from now.


So between now and when I move, I am trying to get set up in a cost effective way and not annoy the landlord.


Whether it be :

(1) Install an external weatherproof 3 pin socket and utilise this with the granny cable.
OR
(2) Install a dedicated *16* amp car charger like this: https://www.adverts.ie/other/electric-car-charge-point/18503556

I am looking for an electrician (attempting this job myself has never entered my head) to do the above at a reasonable rate.

From what has been said, because both are a 16 amp scenarios, there is nothing over complicated about this. Open to correction.

I am guessing there are lots of people that plug in their granny cables to a standard 3 pin socket and charge their car away and all works fine without priority switches, special cabling etc.

obi604

What do ye make of this one:

https://www.adverts.ie/18549300

Is it a 16 amp?

obi604

handofdog wrote: »

Try tradesmen.ie. I got a quote of approx €80 for the installation of external weatherproof socket from RECI registered spark. Adding on other jobs made this cheaper. Worth a shot.

hi, I see there are 2 very similar sites here

1. tradesmen.ie
2. tradesman.ie

is number 1 better than 2?

obi604

obi604 wrote: »

I hear what your saying. I am trying to do this without the grant as I am in a rented house. I want to use the grant for when I move to my “new house” in a few months from now.


So between now and when I move, I am trying to get set up in a cost effective way and not annoy the landlord.


Whether it be :

(1) Install an external weatherproof 3 pin socket and utilise this with the granny cable.
OR
(2) Install a dedicated *16* amp car charger like this: https://www.adverts.ie/other/electric-car-charge-point/18503556

I am looking for an electrician (attempting this job myself has never entered my head) to do the above at a reasonable rate.

From what has been said, because both are a 16 amp scenarios, there is nothing over complicated about this. Open to correction.

I am guessing there are lots of people that plug in their granny cables to a standard 3 pin socket and charge their car away and all works fine without priority switches, special cabling etc.

Hi, sorry for pushing, but is the work involved in 1 and 2 above more a less the same?

McGiver

obi604 wrote: »

obi604 wrote: »

I hear what your saying. I am trying to do this without the grant as I am in a rented house. I want to use the grant for when I move to my “new house” in a few months from now.


So between now and when I move, I am trying to get set up in a cost effective way and not annoy the landlord.


Whether it be :

(1) Install an external weatherproof 3 pin socket and utilise this with the granny cable.
OR
(2) Install a dedicated *16* amp car charger like this: https://www.adverts.ie/other/electric-car-charge-point/18503556

I am looking for an electrician (attempting this job myself has never entered my head) to do the above at a reasonable rate.

From what has been said, because both are a 16 amp scenarios, there is nothing over complicated about this. Open to correction.

I am guessing there are lots of people that plug in their granny cables to a standard 3 pin socket and charge their car away and all works fine without priority switches, special cabling etc.

Hi, sorry for pushing, but is the work involved in 1 and 2 above more a less the same?

Wouldn't say so. Charger typically takes half a day. I think 3pin socket is a two hours tops.

obi604

McGiver wrote: »

Wouldn't say so. Charger typically takes half a day. I think 3pin socket is a two hours tops.

Thanks. If both are 16 amp, is the wiring to them just the same? and the only difference being that you wire it in to a charger V 3 pin socket?

Or am I way off track.

McGiver

I don't know. 3pin is 13A though.

obi604

Ok, Right.

Sounds like trying to install the 16 amp dedicated car charger (versus the 32 amp) could be convoluted or a bit more complicated than just the standard 3 pin socket.

Regarding the external weatherproof 3 pin plug and using it with granny cable - is anything special needed here, like priority switches, bypasses, special cabling, breakers etc.

i.e. does the fact that it’s been used to charge an electric car mean anything special needed?

If I was going to use the granny cable with an existing internal socket, I would just be plugging it in and not doing anything else, so I presume the external socket does not need anything special in its setup.

obi604

How do most of ye drive your leaf? Always in eco mode or just D mode or depends?

obi604

obi604 wrote: »

How do most of ye drive your leaf? Always in eco mode or just D mode or depends?

D and use your right foot as the eco button.

obi604

samih wrote: »

D and use your right foot as the eco button.

As in just take foot off accelerator when you anticipate a stop coming up?

McGiver

I use D while driving in flowing traffic and flick it to B followed by right foot up when slowing down e.g. to turn or exit or even to stop.
I mostly use B in tight slow traffic in town.

But this is really a personal preference thing. I like high regen hence I do as I described.

Note: leaf doesn't show break lights when regen breaking in the B mode, which is in my opinion a design flaw and a bit dangerous, so I always touch the break pedal briefly in tight traffic to show the lights to the traffic behind me.

obi604

handofdog wrote: »

Something else to consider would be how easy would it be for someone to steal the charging/granny cable?

These cables are approx €200+ so they can be a nice lucrative simple theft. I've seen some posts on boards where people claim this has happened.

I'm looking into tethered units and also smart untethered units that lock.

If anyone else has other security suggestions then I'd welcome them. Thanks.

good call, I haven't used a granny cable yet.

When they are plugged in, are they 'locked' in to the car end? or can it just be simply unplugged from both ends at any time (e.g. a stranger walking down the road could just just saunter up and steal)

McGiver

obi604 wrote: »

handofdog wrote: »

Something else to consider would be how easy would it be for someone to steal the charging/granny cable?

These cables are approx €200+ so they can be a nice lucrative simple theft. I've seen some posts on boards where people claim this has happened.

I'm looking into tethered units and also smart untethered units that lock.

If anyone else has other security suggestions then I'd welcome them. Thanks.

good call, I haven't used a granny cable yet.

When they are plugged in, are they 'locked' in to the car end? or can it just be simply unplugged from both ends at any time (e.g. a stranger walking down the road could just just saunter up and steal)

Yes you can lock it.

obi604

McGiver wrote: »

Yes you can lock it.

ok, where or how do yo lock it

handofdog

obi604 wrote: »

ok, where or how do yo lock it

I think you have a 2012 Leaf and AFAIK it doesn't support native locking.


There are some good alternative suggestions on this page: https://insideevs.com/news/323954/how-to-protect-your-nissan-leaf-level-1-charger-from-theft-video/

obi604

handofdog wrote: »

I think you have a 2012 Leaf and AFAIK it doesn't support native locking.


There are some good alternative suggestions on this page: https://insideevs.com/news/323954/how-to-protect-your-nissan-leaf-level-1-charger-from-theft-video/

Yeah, mine is 2011.
Few great ideas on the page you linked !!!

obi604

McGiver wrote: »

I use D while driving in flowing traffic and flick it to B followed by right foot up when slowing down e.g. to turn or exit or even to stop.
I mostly use B in tight slow traffic in town.

But this is really a personal preference thing. I like high regen hence I do as I described.

Note: leaf doesn't show break lights when regen breaking in the B mode, which is in my opinion a design flaw and a bit dangerous, so I always touch the break pedal briefly in tight traffic to show the lights to the traffic behind me.

I have a gen 1 and it does not have a B button (as far as I am aware)
Is there an equivalent of B in the gen 1

September1

obi604 wrote: »

good call, I haven't used a granny cable yet.

When they are plugged in, are they 'locked' in to the car end? or can it just be simply unplugged from both ends at any time (e.g. a stranger walking down the road could just just saunter up and steal)

In Gen. 1 it does not lock on car side, so best option is to drive over the cable.

KCross

September1 wrote: »

In Gen. 1 it does not lock on car side, so best option is to drive over the cable.

Huh? You mean to put the wheel on top of the cable? :eek:

September1

KCross wrote: »

Huh? You mean to put the wheel on top of the cable? :eek:

Yes ;-)

KCross

Have you done that yourself?

Thats asking for trouble, imo. The cable wont be able to withstand that on an ongoing basis. It would be a matter of time before the insulation starting breaking down or you snap it inside. Definitely not a recommended approach.

If you want to protect your cable just lock it to the wall. There have been a few pics on the forum where people do that. You cant pull the ends of the cable (i.e. the connectors) through a lock and as long as the lock is securely fixed to the wall it will stop the casual thief.

They can of course still cut the lock. There is no dead cert way to prevent it. Even if the cable is locked to the car they can easily unlock cars now and unlock the cable from inside the car and take the cable and car!

September1

KCross wrote: »

Have you done that yourself?

Thats asking for trouble, imo. The cable wont be able to withstand that on an ongoing basis. It would be a matter of time before the insulation starting breaking down or you snap it inside. Definitely not a recommended approach.

Yes, it didn't cause any visible damage.

unkel

September1 wrote: »

Yes, it didn't cause any visible damage.

That's because the outside is rubber. The damage will be done on the inside. I agree with the advice here. Don't drive over your charge cable!

McGiver

unkel wrote: »

September1 wrote: »

Yes, it didn't cause any visible damage.

That's because the outside is rubber. The damage will be done on the inside. I agree with the advice here. Don't drive over your charge cable!

Absolutely. Running over a cable with 1.5 tons and leaving the weight on it repeatedly....