Do I have to pay or should my landlord?

JustJoe7240

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Not legally. Showers are meant to run off the tank and cylinder. In that case they will be low pressure as they are gravity fed. The height of the tank determines the pressure.
The vast majority of housing in Ireland is plumbed this way. I know my own house had terrible pressure but that is how it worked. I upgraded and added a pump but as a landlord I would have no obligation to do that. The shower was not broken and neither is this one.
Mattress issue is a non starter really. The OP had a chance to inspect and accept the property as it stood. The same really goes for the shower too.

Show me where it says showers must legally be fed off a tank? Because until then, I will be of the opinion that you're talking complete rubbish!

*Sorry O.P, Not atall on topic.

ted1

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

Show me where it says showers must legally be fed off a tank? Because until then, I will be of the opinion that you're talking complete rubbish!

*Sorry O.P, Not atall on topic.

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad%2C27357%2Cen.pdf

Section 1.3 of the building regs

CosmicFool

Op I would suggest getting in contact with threshold and seeing what they have to say about the isssue.

Fol20

AlanG wrote: »

If the mattress is over 8 years old you may have some right to have it replaced but Revenue that beds should last at least 8 years. If you accepted it when you moved in then you may be just as well to buy your own. Personally I would ask but you will probably end up with a des Kelly chap mattress.

As for the shower, if the only solution the plumber could suggest was a pump it sounds like you are just used to power showers, If the shower provided is working as designed then it is unlikely you have any argument to get it upgraded.

Are you on the contract for the house? If not then it is between the person on the contract and the landlord. Also remember if the property is in a RPZ you may be paying anything up to 1000 per month less than the market rent so the LL may not feel investing in the property is worth while as they cannot benefit from any improvements.

The 8 year rule is not relevant to the op situation as that is used for tax reasons or dispute over value of goods.

Fol20

Graces7 wrote: »

That will not help with a mattress like this as it will give no support.

When I was in college I only used a mattress topper without a mattress so this can work.

Fol20

syndrome777 wrote: »

with the amount of rent you pay , you should get a new matters if the existing one is s***.

Even the bare minimmum seems like a luxury here when renting.

The cost of rent here is not important as the same principles would apply if he is paying half of the current rent

Fol20

ted1 wrote: »

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad%2C27357%2Cen.pdf

Section 1.3 of the building regs

Love it when people show them up

DyldeBrill

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I thought you just moved in? Can't put up the rent if that is the case. Unless you are saying you took over somebody else's part of the original lease. In that case it would mean you are the only one complaining about the shower. What is the story?

I moved in knowing that the rent was going to increase.

I'm 1 of 3 complaining about the shower we have. 1 of them moves out in 2 week's after a year in the house but he has tried about the shower and got no where. Not looking too good for me.

DyldeBrill

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So it really is only you complaining about the shower and the furniture?

Not sure how you came to that conclusion....answered in my previous post.

Fol20

I think from a customer support POV - the ll is doing himself no favors. All he has to do is either go to the house himself to inspect the shower and bed or get his tradesmen to take a look. Even if it’s just a 5 minute job to say yes there is an issue or no there isn’t. That would nip this in the bud.

People’s perceptions of beds can be subjective. If there is metal sticking out of the bed. Then yes. This should be replaced by the ll as they provided the bed. Even though it isn’t part of the minimum requirements, if they supply it and it breaks they need to repair or replace.OP from a practical point of view if you feel the ll is useless, you have three options 1) talk to threshold to see what your options are however bear in mind this will also spur relations with your ll 2) fix it yourself by buying a new mattress or mattress topper(you shouldn’t have to do this if the bed is as you describe) 3) start looking for a new place.

In relation to water pressure, this maybe a non issue even if the pressure is terrible. Some properties have terrible water pressure and there might be limitations to what can be done here. Again all it would take is for him to either say he had a plumber out in the past or get one out now to inspect and that would be sorted also.

It sounds like ll is poor in this case irregardless but that’s my 2 cents.

DyldeBrill

Fol20 wrote: »

I think from a customer support POV - the ll is doing himself no favors. All he has to do is either go to the house himself to inspect the shower and bed or get his tradesmen to take a look. Even if it’s just a 5 minute job to say yes there is an issue or no there isn’t. That would nip this in the bud.

People’s perceptions of beds can be subjective. If there is metal sticking out of the bed. Then yes. This should be replaced by the ll as they provided the bed. Even though it isn’t part of the minimum requirements, if they supply it and it breaks they need to repair or replace.OP from a practical point of view if you feel the ll is useless, you have three options 1) talk to threshold to see what your options are however bear in mind this will also spur relations with your ll 2) fix it yourself by buying a new mattress or mattress topper(you shouldn’t have to do this if the bed is as you describe) 3) start looking for a new place.

In relation to water pressure, this maybe a non issue even if the pressure is terrible. Some properties have terrible water pressure and there might be limitations to what can be done here. Again all it would take is for him to either say he had a plumber out in the past or get one out now to inspect and that would be sorted also.

It sounds like ll is poor in this case irregardless but that’s my 2 cents.

The bed I can definitely deal with. I felt a bit cheeky asking about the mattress but if push comes to shove I'll get the mattress myself. It's the smallest issue I have in the house.

I've had a plumber nspect the house. The problem can be fixed no problem, it's just the LL is unwilling to pay for it. Bit of a joke.

Pawwed Rig

DyldeBrill wrote: »

I moved in knowing that the rent was going to increase.

I'm 1 of 3 complaining about the shower we have. 1 of them moves out in 2 week's after a year in the house but he has tried about the shower and got no where. Not looking too good for me.

If the LL won't do it would you not just hire someone yourselves?
A year without a decent shower isn't worth the hassle of chasing it.

DyldeBrill

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If the LL won't do it would you not just hire someone yourselves?
A year without a decent shower isn't worth the hassle of chasing it.

It's costing just over 500 quid to fix the issue. Ultimately I'd rather move out of the house if this issue isn't going to be fixed.

It's on the LL to pay in my opinion and if he won't pay that then I'll go elsewhere. 500 quid ain't cheap.

Pawwed Rig

No not cheap but divided by 3 or 4 certainly cheaper than moving house.

DyldeBrill

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

No not cheap but divided by 3 or 4 certainly cheaper than moving house.

100% agree but in this case it's a little different. 1 of the tenants who's been living in the house 6 years has his own working shower upstairs so he won't be paying the bill. The other is moving out in a month. Therefore, it leaves 2 of us who have to pay. We will have to tell the new tenant that they are moving into a house where a shower is not working - something I very much doubt they'll be happy to pay for.

Ray Palmer

DyldeBrill wrote: »

The bed I can definitely deal with. I felt a bit cheeky asking about the mattress but if push comes to shove I'll get the mattress myself. It's the smallest issue I have in the house.

I've had a plumber nspect the house. The problem can be fixed no problem, it's just the LL is unwilling to pay for it. Bit of a joke.

Let's be clear. Gravity fed showers are the norm in this country. Your shower having low pressure is a problem for you but not necessarily an actual problem with how it works. The plumber suggesting there is a solution for what you would like is not an actual fix but an upgrade. The landlord doesn't have a single obligation to upgrade the shower because you want more pressure. Your desire to have him do that is the joke because you had opportunity to accept the property before renting it. That was your choice and the landlord has the choice not to upgrade and can also refuse to let you do it too.
Buyer beware.

10pennymixup

ted1 wrote: »

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad%2C27357%2Cen.pdf

Section 1.3 of the building regs

I'm confused. I have/had electric showers (non pump) fed solely from the mains, installed and supplied by a plumber and wired by an electrician. Signed off on by an electrician.

The house I last sold was inspected by the buyers surveyor and a plumber and electrician with no issue.

These type showers (mains only) are sold openly (even in Argos) and this website explains the different types of showers and they seem to have no problem fitting mains water supplied electric showers.

I know that you shouldn't feed a mixer shower with mains to minimize possible cross contamination and I'm wondering does the building regs 2008 quoted before refer to such a shower/bath mixer type tap and not an electric non pumped which are designed to be fed from the mains, which have only one feed and does not "meet" the hot water supply from a copper cylinder??

And as such are legal??

And OP is it an electric shower or a mixer tap type??

CosmicFool

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Let's be clear. Gravity fed showers are the norm in this country. Your shower having low pressure is a problem for you but not necessarily an actual problem with how it works. The plumber suggesting there is a solution for what you would like is not an actual fix but an upgrade. The landlord doesn't have a single obligation to upgrade the shower because you want more pressure. Your desire to have him do that is the joke because you had opportunity to accept the property before renting it. That was your choice and the landlord has the choice not to upgrade and can also refuse to let you do it too.
Buyer beware.

What utter nonsense. The shower is clearly not working. The Op has said that the water coming out of the shower is pretty much non existent so I would assume that the pipes might be blocked. There is more to it than that. Fixing the shower is not having it upgraded. God it astounds me that there are people on here that have the mindset as you.

Fol20

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Let's be clear. Gravity fed showers are the norm in this country. Your shower having low pressure is a problem for you but not necessarily an actual problem with how it works. The plumber suggesting there is a solution for what you would like is not an actual fix but an upgrade. The landlord doesn't have a single obligation to upgrade the shower because you want more pressure. Your desire to have him do that is the joke because you had opportunity to accept the property before renting it. That was your choice and the landlord has the choice not to upgrade and can also refuse to let you do it too.
Buyer beware.

Normally a lot of the comments on here are anti ll and I try to defend them if logical as I’m a ll myself. I can see that he could have checked the bed before moving in but after all my viewings I have allowed. I have not once seen someone test the shower. Generally they have a quick look at the toilet in terms of layout, cleanliness etc but not actually check it’s working. I might be pedantic here and you are right that this could be a potential upgrade vs repair but just had to point that out

Markcheese

People seem very hot under the collar both ways on the shower issue, (well not the op, but that might have something to do with a lack of water),
But on the mattress thing, lidl at the moment have rolled up memory foam mattress's for about a 100 hundred euro for a double...
And ask the landlord to come out and look at the shower, he might say feck off, or he might do something...

DyldeBrill

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Let's be clear. Gravity fed showers are the norm in this country. Your shower having low pressure is a problem for you but not necessarily an actual problem with how it works. The plumber suggesting there is a solution for what you would like is not an actual fix but an upgrade. The landlord doesn't have a single obligation to upgrade the shower because you want more pressure. Your desire to have him do that is the joke because you had opportunity to accept the property before renting it. That was your choice and the landlord has the choice not to upgrade and can also refuse to let you do it too.
Buyer beware.

If you want me to go into more detail as to why I don't agree with you then I will. The shower and hot water does not work. We have NO cold tap in the bathroom. When I say low pressure, I more or less mean no pressure at all. The plumber suggesting a solution is an actual fix not an upgrade

On the lease it was stated that the shower was in full working order. Far from the case. threshold.ie states "These items should be in good working order and fit for purpose". The answer to that is that they aren't. If you can't shower, they're not working.

If you read my comments you would have clearly seen me outline that I should have checked the property in it's entireity, however, I didn't plan on taking a mock shower before moving. I was assured that everything was working and then upon moving in told the shower didn't work.

The fact that he has offered to send his own plumber out to have a look surely signals the fact that he acknowledges that there is something wrong.

DyldeBrill

10pennymixup wrote: »

I'm confused. I have/had electric showers (non pump) fed solely from the mains, installed and supplied by a plumber and wired by an electrician. Signed off on by an electrician.

The house I last sold was inspected by the buyers surveyor and a plumber and electrician with no issue.

These type showers (mains only) are sold openly (even in Argos) and this website explains the different types of showers and they seem to have no problem fitting mains water supplied electric showers.

I know that you shouldn't feed a mixer shower with mains to minimize possible cross contamination and I'm wondering does the building regs 2008 quoted before refer to such a shower/bath mixer type tap and not an electric non pumped which are designed to be fed from the mains, which have only one feed and does not "meet" the hot water supply from a copper cylinder??

And as such are legal??

And OP is it an electric shower or a mixer tap type??

Hey - the shower is a mix tap

DyldeBrill

Markcheese wrote: »

People seem very hot under the collar both ways on the shower issue, (well not the op, but that might have something to do with a lack of water),
But on the mattress thing, lidl at the moment have rolled up memory foam mattress's for about a 100 hundred euro for a double...
And ask the landlord to come out and look at the shower, he might say feck off, or he might do something...

Got myslef a matress cover from Lidl yesterday - will do the job

Ray Palmer

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Let's be clear. Gravity fed showers are the norm in this country. Your shower having low pressure is a problem for you but not necessarily an actual problem with how it works. The plumber suggesting there is a solution for what you would like is not an actual fix but an upgrade. The landlord doesn't have a single obligation to upgrade the shower because you want more pressure. Your desire to have him do that is the joke because you had opportunity to accept the property before renting it. That was your choice and the landlord has the choice not to upgrade and can also refuse to let you do it too.
Buyer beware.

If you want me to go into more detail as to why I don't agree with you then I will. The shower and hot water does not work. We have NO cold tap in the bathroom. When I say low pressure, I more or less mean no pressure at all. The plumber suggesting a solution is an actual fix not an upgrade

On the lease it was stated that the shower was in full working order. Far from the case. threshold.ie states "These items should be in good working order and fit for purpose". The answer to that is that they aren't. If you can't shower, they're not working.

If you read my comments you would have clearly seen me outline that I should have checked the property in it's entireity, however, I didn't plan on taking a mock shower before moving. I was assured that everything was working and then upon moving in told the shower didn't work.

The fact that he has offered to send his own plumber out to have a look surely signals the fact that he acknowledges that there is something wrong.

So you have neither hot or cold taps working in the bathroom? Somebody would have to actively disconnect pipes to do this which sounds very strange.

An unbelievable lease stating working items. Been a landlord for 20 years and have never ever heard of such a lease. I think you maybe exaggerating content. If you signed the lease without checking more fool you. More fool the people living there who never told you until afterwards.

The fact he said he would send out a different plumber is no acknowledgement of anything. Why would he believe the plumber you got? I wouldn't as they will agree with the tenant if it means they get work and can do an upgrade rather than a fix and over charge. Tenants don't care about costs as they have the attitude that I am paying enough so the landlord can suck it up. An opinion you already expressed.
I find your descriptions exaggerated. I have been doing this a long time and tenants exaggerate everytime. From claims the frudge doesn't work when the control is set wrong to claims heating doesn't work when they failed to switch it on. They had tradesmen "agree" with them too.

Ray Palmer

10pennymixup wrote: »

And as such are legal??

No still against building regs. Being capable of being connected to mains doesn't change anything neither does the fact it is for sale. Electric scooters are illegal to use in public spaces but you see people using them.
Lots of surveys and tradesmen will ignore it because the hassle involved in getting it changed. There is little danger and it is more to do with not putting a strain on infrastructure. If pressure drops while in use it can burnout, trip the fuses or even catch fire. Rare for the last one but replacing shower unit common as a result of being connected to the mains. Pressure tends to drop when most people use showers.

AlanG

ted1 wrote: »

Showers aren’t fed off the mains. So no digging required.
.

You are allowed have one power shower in a house fed by the mains and only one. Many electric showers need to be mains fed. Only newer houses cannot have a shower fed off the mains as the new regulations don't permit it for new builds.

DyldeBrill

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So you have neither hot or cold taps working in the bathroom? Somebody would have to actively disconnect pipes to do this which sounds very strange.

An unbelievable lease stating working items. Been a landlord for 20 years and have never ever heard of such a lease. I think you maybe exaggerating content. If you signed the lease without checking more fool you. More fool the people living there who never told you until afterwards.

The fact he said he would send out a different plumber is no acknowledgement of anything. Why would he believe the plumber you got? I wouldn't as they will agree with the tenant if it means they get work and can do an upgrade rather than a fix and over charge. Tenants don't care about costs as they have the attitude that I am paying enough so the landlord can suck it up. An opinion you already expressed.
I find your descriptions exaggerated. I have been doing this a long time and tenants exaggerate everytime. From claims the frudge doesn't work when the control is set wrong to claims heating doesn't work when they failed to switch it on. They had tradesmen "agree" with them too.

The hot water doesn't work on the tap in the shower and the cold one on the sink.

You're quite entitled to assume that my claims are exaggerated. Luckily (or maybe unlucky in this case) for me, I know that they are indeed correct and factual.

Why wouldn't he trust the plumber I got? What warrants such distrust? Maybe you're projecting your own feelings from the previous dealings you've had with tennants.

I am by no means categorizing each LL - I've had fantastic LL's and this is the only one I've had a problem with. The fact that he won't even reply to me is the biggest issue. As someone stated earlier in this thread - his customer service is abysmal.

Think what you want about my exagerated claims. However, when I'm paying for a furnished house I expect things to be in working order. If you bought a car and it came with 3 wheels instead of 4 - would you be happy?

How do you know each tennant doesn't care about the cost? I think you're generalising to the extreme on that one. And as for fridges, heat etc...not sure what that has to do with my original post. Maybe have a read back. Jeessh.

Ray Palmer

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So you have neither hot or cold taps working in the bathroom? Somebody would have to actively disconnect pipes to do this which sounds very strange.

An unbelievable lease stating working items. Been a landlord for 20 years and have never ever heard of such a lease. I think you maybe exaggerating content. If you signed the lease without checking more fool you. More fool the people living there who never told you until afterwards.

The fact he said he would send out a different plumber is no acknowledgement of anything. Why would he believe the plumber you got? I wouldn't as they will agree with the tenant if it means they get work and can do an upgrade rather than a fix and over charge. Tenants don't care about costs as they have the attitude that I am paying enough so the landlord can suck it up. An opinion you already expressed.
I find your descriptions exaggerated. I have been doing this a long time and tenants exaggerate everytime. From claims the frudge doesn't work when the control is set wrong to claims heating doesn't work when they failed to switch it on. They had tradesmen "agree" with them too.

The hot water doesn't work on the tap in the shower and the cold one on the sink.

You're quite entitled to assume that my claims are exaggerated. Luckily (or maybe unlucky in this case) for me, I know that they are indeed correct and factual.

Why wouldn't he trust the plumber I got? What warrants such distrust? Maybe you're projecting your own feelings from the previous dealings you've had with tennants.

I am by no means categorizing each LL - I've had fantastic LL's and this is the only one I've had a problem with. The fact that he won't even reply to me is the biggest issue. As someone stated earlier in this thread - his customer service is abysmal.

Think what you want about my exagerated claims. However, when I'm paying for a furnished house I expect things to be in working order. If you bought a car and it came with 3 wheels instead of 4 - would you be happy?

How do you know each tennant doesn't care about the cost? I think you're generalising to the extreme on that one. And as for fridges, heat etc...not sure what that has to do with my original post. Maybe have a read back. Jeessh.

Simple answer to all is experience. I even explained exactly why I wouldn't trust a tradesman hired by a tenant maybe have a read back .Jeessh

DyldeBrill

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Simple answer to all is experience. I even explained exactly why I wouldn't trust a tradesman hired by a tenant maybe have a read back .Jeessh

I find your comments rather close-minded. Reading back and I still don't understand why my landlord has any reason not to trust me. I was happy to go with his own plumber - he just never showed up.

From your experience, you must have rather bad judgement when it comes to tennants renting your property. Especially with you're complaints and tarring each tennant with the same brush.

ted1

DyldeBrill wrote: »

100% agree but in this case it's a little different. 1 of the tenants who's been living in the house 6 years has his own working shower upstairs so he won't be paying the bill. .

What kind of shower is his? If you are downstairs and he is upstairs then you should have better pressure.