Integrity of Estate Agents

zig

Hi,

Im currently in the buying process as are others I know and the general consensus seems to be one of a lack of trust of estate agents, a lack of trust towards bids, motives and things they say. I have to admit I feel the same about this myself.

But do you think this is just one of these unfair urban myths because we feel bitter about being outbid or being sold something for higher by a sales person?

I am wondering does anyone here know EAs (or are EAs) who could say the opposite side of it.

Basically I hear people being convinced they are up against a fake bid, or strange stories about the top bidder pulling out and the EA going back to the other person, making the buyer wonder what was going on all that time.

The EA we're currently dealing with has lead us on quite a bit, implying the seller will accept pretty soon only to introduce a new bidder out of nowhere. (this has happened 3 times on the same house).

I also happen to know that I was able to put on a bid on a house and I didnt have official approval from the bank yet. Now the bank had told us it was as good as done and they just needed to do the credit check but still this was enough for the EA to take a bid from us and subsequently drive up the price. In hindsight I dont know if it was fair for them to accept that bid even though we were genuine in how close we were to getting approval.

I also happen to know another situation where buyers had sale agreed on a house, in the mean time were viewing another house with the same auctioneer after this and the buyers placed a bid on this other house, they would clearly not have had enough to buy the two houses but the bid was noted anyway.

Do they go as far as getting fake bidders or at least getting someone they know to bid so they are still technically marking it as a real offer?

Or is it all just something in mine and my friends heads because we're trying to buy houses and its pissing us off and that the reality is that perhaps EAs are equally fed up of being accused of BS?

Samuel T. Cogley

Trust them as far as you can throw the fat ones.

duffman13

It depends, I've an estate agent selling my house and he's a really honest guy. Couple of houses he's selling he's given me a bit of detail on I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Not sure whether that's cause he's doing work for me or he's always like that. I picked him because I needed a valuation done that attracted a fee, he was straight up and didn't act the bollocks like a few others I called. I've met 5 agents while looking for a house and only one seemed relatively normal and not too salesman like. It's a mixed bag like all walks of life IMO

q85dw7osi4lebg

People who miss out on properties because they are outbid will always have negative things to say about agents. I think it makes them feel better or something.

Dav010

Op, you will be very happy that your EA got you the highest price possible when you are selling.

Always keep two important facts in mind when you are buying, the EA works for the seller and is there to get the max price for the property, and if you want the property, chances are someone else does for the very same reasons.

lawrencesummers

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Trust them as far as you can throw the fat ones.

Yep. Same as car salesmen, they don’t care about anything but the numbers, if anything I find them to fast when they close and you have to remember that going to the hassle of getting an extra 20/30k is worth very little to them in the grand scheme of things.

beauf

I've dealt with good and bad. Same as all walks of life really.

WealthyB

The one we bought our house off, well first of all I used to work with him, but while I remembered him he didn't initially remember me. Tis grand I figured, he won't screw us over.. so we placed our bid, and someone matched our bid. EA told us an extra 10k would get us over the line, I told him no - we're ready to move on this now and we want this done in 10 weeks, but we're not going any higher. Lo and behold the other buyer just disappeared.

Never trust an EA

babi-hrse

Ah I'd say they're all sorts but we had a right dirty bollix and a one who just wanted to get the house sold and did not drag it out.

The one we went to for first house we were buying for a repossessed house on market 1 year no interest in it and offers fell through ect.
We put a bid in sat there 2 months go by we got told other bids pulled out and our bid was being sent to the bank basically it's closed and it's up to the bank to accept or refuse our offer.

2 months later we got a call to be told someone else had put a bid in a few hours ago and we would have to stick more money in to stay in. Naturally we were furious as we thought there was some process to getting a reply from the bank. So after much discussion we decided to raise the bid when it went up again we cut ties as I couldn't trust them after their carry on.
Drove past the house after buying ours and it still looks empty. My thoughts are the bank weren't happy with the offer and wanted more and the estate agents way of goin about it was to suddenly have bids after the closing date like that's normal. 3 months of dressing ourselves out of cardboard boxes was too much.
We went to another who might have well being wearing Stetsons and a ten gallon hat firing pistols in the air telling us prices are rocketing up for a house that looked like somebody was destitute in and eventually keeled over and house was tossed on the market next day.
Last estate agent was good. He gave us the tour told us the owner was not there all the time so had half moved out already. House was on market a year. He seemed to just want to stop showcasing the house. We bought it and couldn't be happier. Thankfully we were not desperate to buy any house but I can see why trust is important when dealing with alot of money. It's not an ordeal I'd want to repeat

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

Op, you will be very happy that your EA got you the highest price possible when you are selling.

Always keep two important facts in mind when you are buying, the EA works for the seller and is there to get the max price for the property, and if you want the property, chances are someone else does for the very same reasons.

There are estate agents out there who work against the seller if a bidder comes along who threw the auctioneer plenty of work down the years, they will ignore other bids and pressure the seller to accept their buddies offer

Preferred buyer phenomenon

Especially common in rural Ireland

jimmycrackcorm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

There are estate agents out there who work against the seller if a bidder comes along who threw the auctioneer plenty of work down the years, they will ignore other bids and pressure the seller to accept their buddies offer

Preferred buyer phenomenon

Especially common in rural Ireland

It's a bit of a myth as there aren't that many people around who can buy so much property that just happens to be sold through the same estate agent.

While the estate agent represents the seller, in reality they need to get there property sold as quickly as possible but at the best price, so it's on their interest to not hold out waiting for higher bids that may or not materialize. Ski there is some semblance of balance.

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

There are estate agents out there who work against the seller if a bidder comes along who threw the auctioneer plenty of work down the years, they will ignore other bids and pressure the seller to accept their buddies offer

Preferred buyer phenomenon

Especially common in rural Ireland

Whenever I read posts like this, I always wonder how the poster knows this, do lots of EAs tell the poster? Does the poster know lots of property investors who told him they bribe EAs?

So mad_maxx, what evidence have you of this? Or is this just the usual speculation that people who paid more than they wanted to, or didn’t get the property they wanted, post on here?

Is this speculation, or do you have evidence that this is especially common in “rural Ireland” where people are less honest than urban folk?

zig

WealthyB wrote: »

The one we bought our house off, well first of all I used to work with him, but while I remembered him he didn't initially remember me. Tis grand I figured, he won't screw us over.. so we placed our bid, and someone matched our bid. EA told us an extra 10k would get us over the line, I told him no - we're ready to move on this now and we want this done in 10 weeks, but we're not going any higher. Lo and behold the other buyer just disappeared.

Never trust an EA

It’s these kind of stories that made me start the thread. I just wonder are there any EAs around to defend themselves on their side of these kind of stories because if they are as common as I think they are and there is no real good explanation for it then surely it’s a bit of an epidemic not to mention illegal.

gmisk

Don't trust EAs...
I had one guy asking me for 10k under the table..for the owner.
House at 140k said he would take 110k...then this 10k...
I had no interest.
Months later on PPR sold for 110k.

Another one was sale agreed for months....at first EA denied it was a Bank sale...of course it turns out it was.
They have agreement from the bank to sale...they didn't.
10 months later I gave up and bought somewhere else.

Dav010

zig wrote: »

It’s these kind of stories that made me start the thread. I just wonder are there any EAs around to defend themselves on their side of these kind of stories because if they are as common as I think they are and there is no real good explanation for it then surely it’s a bit of an epidemic not to mention illegal.

Op, just ask yourself, why do you never hear sellers complaining that they are unhappy with the way their EA got they a good price for their property?

Disgruntled buyers will post on here about phantom bids and wrong doing, the fact is that like every profession there are good and bad. The poster above said they were asked for €10k cash, is that the EA asking? No, that is the seller asking.

Never once that I have read, has a poster been able to post verifiable evidence of wrong doing. I am not an EA, but I am experienced in buying/selling property. I may not like paying an EA to sell a property, but I understand the skills and methods they use to achieve the highest price, and as s seller I have no problem with that. As a buyer I know the EA works for the seller, not me, and I trust them about as much as I trust anyone else selling something to me, in other words I don’t trust them because so understand that I don’t need to trust them,

GarIT

I know of an estate agent who will make fake bids for you and for €250-300 will hire some extras for your viewings

Dav010

gmisk wrote: »

Don't trust EAs...
I had one guy asking me for 10k under the table..for the owner.
House at 140k said he would take 110k...then this 10k...
I had no interest.
Months later on PPR sold for 110k.

Another one was sale agreed for months....at first EA denied it was a Bank sale...of course it turns out it was.
They have agreement from the bank to sale...they didn't.
10 months later I gave up and bought somewhere else.

Surely you understand that it was the seller asking for the cash, did you think the EA was pocketing that and not telling the seller?

I have seen properties put up for sale by owners only for the bank to step in, it is possible that the EA was not initially aware that the seller was in bother.

Baby01032012

Im in training to become a licensed estate agent. I don’t know enough people in the business to make a call on their ethics. I can only comment on the small estate agency I work with. Who I have to say are trustworthy in their dealings with clients that I have seen. Residential Sales though is a small part of what we do, we look after a lot of commercial sales and lettings and serviced offices as well as block management so we depend on our reputation for repeat business and word of mouth for referrals. I guess there is good and bad like in every industry. Now every agent has to go through a training and qualification process in order to be licensed. I think this has improved the caliber of estate agent. Less the case with those who gained their license through the courts pre 2011. However that is a huge generalization.

I’ve had some very poor dealings with estate agents too that I have engaged. However the 2011Act while it has improved the industry has no real power to penalize those who fall below the standard.

In a previous life I was and still am a chartered accountant and we are subject to a code of ethics. There are good and bad there too. I worked in banking and financial services for 20 years and dealt with some excellent people as well as some who disgusted me in their treatment of clients and poor practices.

Dav010

GarIT wrote: »

I know of an estate agent who will make fake bids for you and for €250-300 will hire some extras for your viewings

Just to be clear, you are saying the seller pays a different EA to the one selling their property €250-300 to make phantom bids on their own property to drive the price up?

Or, are you talking about a bidder wanting to make a bid through a different EA to withhold their identity? There is absolutely nothing untoward about this, I have made bids through my solicitor accompanied with an undertaking that funds are in place because I knew the seller. Of course I had to pay the solicitor a fee for doing this, the same way I would if I got another EA to place the bid.

GarIT

Dav010 wrote: »

Just to be clear, you are saying the seller pays a different EA to the one selling their property €250-300 to make phantom bids on their own property to drive the price up?

Or, are you talking about a bidder wanting to make a bid through a different EA to withhold their identity? There is absolutely nothing untoward about this, I have made bids through my solicitor accompanied with an undertaking that funds are in place because I knew the seller. Of course I had to pay the solicitor a fee for doing this, the same way I would if I got another EA to place the bid.

No. The agent selling the house will submit bits on the house to drive up the price. I think bids have to be in writing now. The agent selling the house will give 2-3 families on the dole €100 each to do a few laps of the house at an open viewing saying things like "will we talk to the agent now or call after?" to eachother when genuine viewers are nearby. Or say positive things about the house "did the agent say the boiler is only new?", "Yeah, two years old he said" or ask the agent leading questions to say good things about the house.

Essentially just don't believe anything you hear from other people at an open viewing.

antiskeptic

Dav010 wrote: »

Op, you will be very happy that your EA got you the highest price possible when you are selling.

Always keep two important facts in mind when you are buying, the EA works for the seller and is there to get the max price for the property, and if you want the property, chances are someone else does for the very same reasons.

The agent works for himself and is there to shift the property as fast as he can. He has no interest in getting the max price possible since an extra 30k fought for with phantom bids and the like gets him just 300 quid extra commission. He's interested in the seller having the perception that he's achieved the max price though.

Not to say it doesn't happen (a vendor can generate a phantom bid using a friend) but there's no real driver to do so from an e.a. point of view

Dav010

GarIT wrote: »

No. The agent selling the house will submit bits on the house to drive up the price. I think bids have to be in writing now. The agent selling the house will give 2-3 families on the dole €100 each to do a few laps of the house at an open viewing saying things like "will we talk to the agent now or call after?" to eachother when genuine viewers are nearby.

Seriously, the EA selling the house is paying €300 of their own money to drive the price up? Why? Based on the typical pay percentage for an EA, in order to get their €300 back, after tax, the price would have to be driven up €50k above what the house would otherwise have sold for.

Sorry, but that is complete BS.

antiskeptic

GarIT wrote: »

No. The agent selling the house will submit bits on the house to drive up the price. I think bids have to be in writing now. The agent selling the house will give 2-3 families on the dole €100 each to do a few laps of the house at an open viewing saying things like "will we talk to the agent now or call after?" to eachother when genuine viewers are nearby. Or say positive things about the house "did the agent say the boiler is only new?", "Yeah, two years old he said" or ask the agent leading questions to say good things about the house.

Essentially just don't believe anything you hear from other people at an open viewing.

Paying dole recipients? What does he do, lurk around outside Intreo offices? Naturally he'll have to select a range of dole recipients according to social class - in order to match the houses he's selling.

"And remember, its tracksuit bottoms for that house in Rialto and pressed shirt for the one in Ballsbridge.

duffman13

GarIT wrote: »

No. The agent selling the house will submit bits on the house to drive up the price. I think bids have to be in writing now. The agent selling the house will give 2-3 families on the dole €100 each to do a few laps of the house at an open viewing saying things like "will we talk to the agent now or call after?" to eachother when genuine viewers are nearby. Or say positive things about the house "did the agent say the boiler is only new?", "Yeah, two years old he said" or ask the agent leading questions to say good things about the house.

Essentially just don't believe anything you hear from other people at an open viewing.

Or an open forum. I'm sorry but I dont believe an estate agent is throwing 2 or 3 "dole" families €100 to turn up at viewings. That's madness

gmisk

Dav010 wrote: »

Surely you understand that it was the seller asking for the cash, did you think the EA was pocketing that and not telling the seller?

I have seen properties put up for sale by owners only for the bank to step in, it is possible that the EA was not initially aware that the seller was in bother.

It doesnt really matter........im pretty sure what he was asking for was illegal no?


The EA knew from the start.
It was sold about a year after for 100k more than I had been sale agreed.

GarIT

Dav010 wrote: »

Seriously, the EA selling the house is paying €300 of their own money to drive the price up? Why? Based on the typical pay percentage for an EA, in order to get their €300 back, after tax, the price would have to be driven up €50k above what the house would otherwise have sold for.

Sorry, but that is complete BS.

No the seller pays agent arranges it

Dav010

gmisk wrote: »

It doesnt really matter........im pretty sure what he was asking for was illegal no?


The EA knew from the start.
It was sold about a year after for 100k more than I had been sale agreed.

How can anyone comment on its illegality without knowing the exact circumstances? But unless you are accusing the EA of stealing from the seller, the instruction came from the seller.

Selling for €100k more means the EA got about €600 after tax that he/she would have got for selling to you, do you honestly think the EA dragged out the sale for another year for €600?

GarIT

antiskeptic wrote: »

Paying dole recipients? What does he do, lurk around outside Intreo offices?

I assume they're his mates, maybe unemployed actors or something, I don't know their details.

Dav010

GarIT wrote: »

No the seller pays agent arranges it

So the seller is paying people on the dole to make phantom bids on their own property? This is getting better.

gmisk

Dav010 wrote: »

How can anyone comment on its illegality without knowing the exact circumstances? But unless you are accusing the EA of stealing from the seller, the instruction came from the seller.

Selling for €100k more means the EA got about €600 after tax that he/she would have got for selling to you, do you honestly think the EA dragged out the sale for another year for €600?

It doesnt matter if the seller asked for the EA to do that he shouldnt have agreed to do it that is my point....
10k in a brown envelope for the seller so the bank dont get a hold of it...nope that doesnt sound dodgy at all.


I didnt say that.....I was just stating that the house sold for 100k more than I was sale agreed at...chill out.

GarIT

Dav010 wrote: »

So the seller is paying people on the dole to make phantom bids on their own property? This is getting better.

He seems to think it works, what does €300 matter if it gets you an extra 5k or a faster sale.