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Integrity of Estate Agents

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    #92
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    EstateAgent wrote: »
    You'd be amazed how many bidders have such issue with supplying proof of finance. When they're reminded that it's actually a good thing that we're making sure all bidders can stand over their bids they usually calm down.

    There's been many threads here before by people who are uncomfortable supplying proof of finance and there have been debates about whether you should or shouldn't give it to an EA. Now this is a thread criticising EA's for not getting it. So there's plenty of opinions out there but one common conclusion - the EA is wrong either way! 😂

    It’s pretty simple and reasonable why people would have an issue supplying documents that show your financial position to a person acting on behalf of a seller, the letter can list how much your approval is for, effectively giving away your bid limit to someone seeking to get you to bid more.


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    #93
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    It's also pretty simple to only show you have the amount of finance necessary to support your current offer.


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    #94
    utmbuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭utmbuilder


    Ah the millennial's are starting up since 2017 :)

    I know of one guy, who's early 30's and gets spray tan


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    #95
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Graham wrote: »
    It's also pretty simple to only show you have the amount of finance necessary to support your current offer.


    Not it’s not. Some places will only give you documentation for overall approval


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    #96
    zig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,206 ✭✭✭zig


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    It’s pretty simple and reasonable why people would have an issue supplying documents that show your financial position to a person acting on behalf of a seller, the letter can list how much your approval is for, effectively giving away your bid limit to someone seeking to get you to bid more.

    All you’re showing is that you can afford the bid. It’s not like you have to provide bank statements. By making the bid in the first place you’re already showing how much you want to spend.


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    #97
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Not it’s not. Some places will only give you documentation for overall approval

    Which bank refused to give you a letter confirming proof of funds? Even if they don’t , your solicitor can give a letter stating that have sight of approval for amount bid.


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    #98
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Which bank refused to give you a letter confirming proof of funds? Even if they don’t , your solicitor can give a letter stating that have sight of approval for amount bid.

    Bank would only give me a letter stating how much I was approved for, and I was bidding less.


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    #99
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Not it’s not. Some places will only give you documentation for overall approval

    Ask your solicitor to do it, job done.


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    #100
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Graham wrote: »
    Ask your solicitor to do it, job done.

    Yea, that should only cost me a few hundred.


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    #101
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Might be worth asking your solicitor rather than guessing.


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    #102
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Graham wrote: »
    Might be worth asking your solicitor rather than guessing.

    Yea, asking a question might only cost the one. Great idea Einstein.


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    #103
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    You can either whine about giving the EA too much information, or you can engage somebody to provide the minimum information necessary.


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    #104
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Graham wrote: »
    You can either whine about giving the EA too much information, or you can engage somebody to provide the minimum information necessary.


    It’s obvious that the system which operates in Ireland for purchasing residential property is unfair, lacks transparency / regulation in a number of aspects.

    This isn’t just the fault of EA’s but they are part of the problem, banks, financial advisors, solicitors, government and builders are also part of the problem.

    People who trivialize the issues, like yourself, or make excuses for those operating and how they operate are invariably one of the “professionals” involved in the process or very close to it.

    There is an amount of behavior by those involved that ranges from unprofessional right up to illegal if you like it or not.


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    #105
    theballz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    So I had the same problem. I am in the process of buying my first house, I was bidding against three people (apparently.)

    It all seemed so sketchy and unrealistic at the time but I didn’t know any different and assumed this was the norm. In short, I called her bluff at the end and the other bider “pulled out” and withdrew their offer.

    Naturally I was happy, the excitement can blur your senses at the time. Now I am going through the process of closing out the house I am now fully convinced I was bidding against myself. The EA has proven to be incredibly untrustworthy, flakey and outrageously comfortable with lying. I won’t get into the specifics but in short, I wouldn’t trust an estate agent ever.

    As an FYI, my mother was an estate agent for 30 years so I don’t that say that lightly!


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    #106
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    People who trivialize the issues, like yourself, or make excuses for those operating and how they operate are invariably one of the “professionals” involved in the process or very close to it.

    Wrong on both counts.

    Does clearly display what I've said multiple times in the past. Everyone that's ever outbid when buying a property assumes something untoward is happening.

    The reality is usually much simpler:

    somebody has made a higher offer.


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    #107
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Graham wrote: »
    Wrong on both counts.

    Does clearly display what I've said multiple times in the past. Everyone that's ever outbid when buying a property assumes something untoward is happening.

    The reality is usually much simpler:

    somebody has made a higher offer.


    I know enough about the property industry here and abroad along with the financial and legal profession from a number of aspects to know that the system of purchasing property in Ireland could be improved.

    I’ve Never been outbid. I’ve been involved in a sizable amount of property transactions.


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    #108
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    theballz wrote: »
    So I had the same problem. I am in the process of buying my first house, I was bidding against three people (apparently.)

    It all seemed so sketchy and unrealistic at the time but I didn’t know any different and assumed this was the norm. In short, I called her bluff at the end and the other bider “pulled out” and withdrew their offer.

    Naturally I was happy, the excitement can blur your senses at the time. Now I am going through the process of closing out the house I am now fully convinced I was bidding against myself. The EA has proven to be incredibly untrustworthy, flakey and outrageously comfortable with lying. I won’t get into the specifics but in short, I wouldn’t trust an estate agent ever.

    As an FYI, my mother was an estate agent for 30 years so I don’t that say that lightly!

    And you have absolutely no recourse, no evidence that she was lying, and no way to investigate it, because the process for buying houses in Ireland is rotten.

    You could have paid over the market value for that house and nothing will ever be done about it.

    But some will come on here and spout a load of bollocks that it’s just disgruntled people who got outbid that are the problem.


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    #109
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    theballz wrote: »
    So I had the same problem.

    I am now fully convinced I was bidding against myself. The EA has proven to be incredibly untrustworthy, flakey and outrageously comfortable with lying. I won’t get into the specifics but in short, I wouldn’t trust an estate agent ever.!


    What is it that fully convinced you?. I have never read one post from any poster who was able to offer more than suspicion, you will no doubt be th first to offer proof that the EA was making up bids. Go for it.


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    #110
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Dav010 wrote: »
    What is it that fully convinced you?. I have never read one post from any poster who was able to offer more than suspicion, you will no doubt be th first to offer proof that the EA was making up bids. Go for it.

    Let you explain first how someone can go about getting that proof that the EA was making up bids.


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    #111
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    I know enough about the property industry here and abroad along with the financial and legal profession from a number of aspects to know that the system of purchasing property in Ireland could be improved.

    I’ve Never been outbid. I’ve been involved in a sizable amount of property transactions.

    With your experience, are you saying the solicitor who you hired for the conveyance charges you hundreds of Euro to write a letter confirming funds? Surely your solicitor understands that without the letter, there would be no conveyance fee, I’ve never been charged for this type of letter, it was included in the overall fee.


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    #112
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Dav010 wrote: »
    With your experience, are you saying the solicitor who you hired for the conveyance charges you hundreds of Euro to write a letter confirming funds? Surely your solicitor understands that without the letter, there would be no conveyance fee, I’ve never been charged for this type of letter, it was included in the overall fee.

    I’m yet to meet a solicitor that does work for free.


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    #113
    theballz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    Dav010 wrote: »
    What is it that fully convinced you?. I have never read one post from any poster who was able to offer more than suspicion, you will no doubt be th first to offer proof that the EA was making up bids. Go for it.

    Sorry if I caused you any offence. It looks like I struck a nerve here. As another member mentioned, the process of procuring property in Ireland is incredibly flawed - meaning much of this cannot be proven.

    I can't be entirely convinced by the law, or the EA might be in a massive amount of trouble, but it was the EA's lack of professionalism, inconsistent updates/fail promises and blatant lies that lead me to believe that I may have been up against a ghost bidder.

    Sorry if I upset you mate.


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    #114
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Let you explain first how someone can go about getting that proof that the EA was making up bids.

    It isn’t up to me to prove how you can be absolutely certain about something, without that proof, how on earth can you be “fully certain”? You might suspect someone of wrongdoing, but in the absence of prove, making an allegation based on certainty seems, well, a bit unusual.


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    #115
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Dav010 wrote: »
    It isn’t up to me to prove how you can be absolutely certain about something, without that proof, how on earth can you be “fully certain”? You might suspect someone of wrongdoing, but in the absence of prove, making an allegation based on certainty seems, well, a bit unusual.

    What a load.

    The point is that there is no way of knowing if the EA is making up bids, as you well know, so asking for proof when you know a person isn’t able to access the information because the process lacks transparency is an easy out.

    But you keep defending it all you like, head in the sand.


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    #116
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    theballz wrote: »
    Sorry if I caused you any offence. It looks like I struck a nerve here. As another member mentioned, the process of procuring property in Ireland is incredibly flawed - meaning much of this cannot be proven.

    I can't be entirely convinced by the law, or the EA might be in a massive amount of trouble, but it was the EA's lack of professionalism, inconsistent updates/fail promises and blatant lies that lead me to believe that I may have been up against a ghost bidder.

    Sorry if I upset you mate.

    No offence taken at all.

    You said you are, not convinced, but fully convinced that the EA was making up bids, surely you have some reason to be convinced? You have got to be the one we have all been waiting for who has good reasons to be fully convinced.

    Or is this another unfounded allegation?


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    #117
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Dav010 wrote: »
    No offence taken at all.

    You said you are, not convinced, but fully convinced that the EA was making up bids, surely you have some reason to be convinced? You have got to be the one we have all been waiting for who has good reasons to be fully convinced.

    Or is this another unfounded allegation?


    Of course it’s unfounded, you do understand that the process has absolutely no transparency or ability for people to seek it.

    Which is the problem everybody is alluding to.


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    #118
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    What a load.

    The point is that there is no way of knowing if the EA is making up bids.

    Exactly, thank you, so how can someone be "fully convinced", or even part way certain that they are? To assume that no one else is bidding is to assume that you are the only person who is interested in the property you are bidding on. How unappealing does a property have to be that only one person would be interested in it?


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    #119
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Of course it’s unfounded.

    Nice one.


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    #120
    theballz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    Dav010 wrote: »
    It isn’t up to me to prove how you can be absolutely certain about something, without that proof, how on earth can you be “fully certain”? You might suspect someone of wrongdoing, but in the absence of prove, making an allegation based on certainty seems, well, a bit unusual.

    There is no way to prove it. Hence why the system is flawed. This has been said to you on a few occasions yet you cannot seem to figure it out.

    Tell me how one would go about proving a ghost bidder?


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    #121
    theballz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    Dav010 wrote: »
    How unappealing does a property have to be that only one person would be interested in it?

    ...................... Christ..


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