Unpopular Opinions - OP Updated with Threadban List 4/5/21

Macu17ab

walshb wrote: »

Please, no.

I am proud to be Irish, but can’t stand this forcing the dead Irish language on us

It’s dead...let it rest in peace!!!

Next to fooking nobody can speak it!

Regardless, the main point would be our land being returned - and there being no vector for people to profit from British subjugation in Ireland. Reparations, if you will.

sbsquarepants

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

He's still the father.

The birth cert is a factual legal document, emotions aside.

Go to your safe space to have a little cry if you don't like it.

I'm wouldn't be a supporter of your mandatory paternity test idea, but i also couldn't say there is absolutely no merit to it either. I remember reading before that worldwide, something like 10% of all supposed paternities were in fact incorrect.


Probably makes a damn site more sense to trace your ancestry back through the female side of your family, or to have more faith in that side at least. You can be fairly certain that your mother is in fact your mother!

gormdubhgorm

joeguevara wrote: »

But the issue is that if racists/dinosaurs didn't use offensive language or even stopped referring to colour in the first place then they wouldn't be called out on it. In all fairness when does a 70 year old white man from the UK ever need to describe a person by their colour. More often than not, when they cause offense, they will defend themselves by saying its PC gone mad.

You don't need to keep up with changing terminology. Stop using colour as a descriptor.

That is obvious crime committed by three men one white with red hair and a galway gaa jersey, one black with curly hair and glasses in a hoilster top, another fella with a beard who was Hispanic looking in a barca jersey, And slight looking man of Asian appearance with dyed blonde hair.
You are in the garda station and are asked to give a description do you leave out their race?

Also in England there is a "black managers association" in soccer. In America they have a "black history month" and awards in music called "music of black origin".

So do you not use race as a descriptor or not? Which is it? Mixed messages all over the place.
If there was one white fella in a bar of mostly black fellas in Nigeria. And Chastity asks Devotha who is David? Chastity says that white guy over there with the pint of Guinness.

I know Bob Marley sang "Until the colour of a man's skin is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes".

Nice in theory, but unless someone has a standout feature other than colour of skin, it will be very difficult to point them out. Especially if they are brothers or related. Only hope is glasses, beard, distinctive clothes. Who is going to say that fella over there with blue eyes?

If a fella Paul was standing between two lads in wheelchair. Someone said where is Paul? I would say he is over there with the two lads in wheelchairs. An easy descriptior if there was no other people in wheelchairs around.

However if it was something like wheelchair rugby. Full of people in wheelchairs. Someone is looking for Joanne. But there is also a Joanne who is able bodied who I knew was the ref and another wheelchair user of the same name, Joanne. I am looking for able bodied Joanne.I say where is Joanne? What do I say then? The ref yer wan with the whistle!

joeguevara

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is obvious crime committed by three men one white with red hair and a galway gaa jersey, one black with curly hair and glasses in a hoilster top, another fella with a beard who was Hispanic looking in a barca jersey, And slight looking man of Asian appearance with dyed blonde hair.
You are in the garda station and are asked to give a description do you leave out their race?

Also in England there is a "black managers association" in soccer. In America they have a black history month and awards in music called "music of black origin".

So do you not use race as a descriptor or not? Which is it? Mixed messages all over the place.
If there was one white fella in a bar of mostly black fellas in Nigeria. And Chastity asks Devotha who is David? Chastity says that white guy over there with the pint of Guinness.

I know Bob Marley sang "Until the colour of a man's skin is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes".

Nice in theory, but unless someone has a standout feature other than colour of skin, it will be very difficult to point them out. Especially if they are brothers or related. Only hope is glasses, beard, distinctive clothes. Who is going to say that fella over there with blue eyes?

If a fella Paul was standing between two lads in wheelchair. Someone said where is Paul? I would say he is over there with the two lads in wheelchairs. An easy descriptior if there was no other people in wheelchairs around.

However if it was something like wheelchair rugby. Full of people in wheelchairs. Someone is looking for Joanne. But there is also a Joanne who is able bodied who was the ref and another wheelchair user of the same name Joanne. I am looking for able bodied Joanne.I say where is Joanne? What do I say? The ref yer wan with the whistle!

Its amazing that you seem so hurt about this. Tell you what, you go about your day calling people coloureds, moaning about black history month and pointing about people in wheelchairs and I'll go about mine not doing that.

whisky_galore

Macu17ab wrote: »

I think Irish land that has been inherited through the British Monarchical system e.g. Powerscourt Gardens, should be returned to the state and used for purposes to help revitalise Irish culture and language.

Should we bankrupt the state by taking over every old demense? The state can't even maintain the historic sites they have under their care adequately as it is.
Enough money is being shovelled into the language black hole.

sbsquarepants

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are in the garda station and are asked to give a description do you leave out their race?

I can picture it now, the line up starts. You walk in and take a look, there's a native American, a Nigerian, a Mexican, a Japanese fella, an Italian, an Aborigine an Eskimo and a Pakistani. Sir can you indicate which one it was "I'm Sorry, i just can't tell them apart, they all have black hair and brown eyes you see, this is hopeless, if only there was some way to tell them apart.:D

Omackeral

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I can picture it now, the line up starts. You walk in and take a look, there's a native American, a Nigerian, a Mexican, a Japanese fella, an Italian, an Aborigine an Eskimo and a Pakistani. Sir can you indicate which one it was "I'm Sorry, i just can't tell them apart, they all have black hair and brown eyes you see, this is hopeless, if only there was some way to tell them apart.:D

Oh you can't say that anymore. It's Inuit or First Nations. I'm sorry but you're gonna have to be cancelled.

joeguevara

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I can picture it now, the line up starts. You walk in and take a look, there's a native American, a Nigerian, a Mexican, a Japanese fella, an Italian, an Aborigine an Eskimo and a Pakistani. Sir can you indicate which one it was "I'm Sorry, i just can't tell them apart, they all have black hair and brown eyes you see, this is hopeless, if only there was some way to tell them apart.:D

You do know that you have inadvertently said that if 5 people with the same skin colour were in a line up you wouldnt be able to tell them apart.

km991148

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is obvious crime committed by three men one white with red hair and a galway gaa jersey, one black with curly hair and glasses in a hoilster top, another fella with a beard who was Hispanic looking in a barca jersey, And slight looking man of Asian appearance with dyed blonde hair.
You are in the garda station and are asked to give a description do you leave out their race?

Also in England there is a "black managers association" in soccer. In America they have a "black history month" and awards in music called "music of black origin".

So do you not use race as a descriptor or not? Which is it? Mixed messages all over the place.
If there was one white fella in a bar of mostly black fellas in Nigeria. And Chastity asks Devotha who is David? Chastity says that white guy over there with the pint of Guinness.

I know Bob Marley sang "Until the colour of a man's skin is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes".

Nice in theory, but unless someone has a standout feature other than colour of skin, it will be very difficult to point them out. Especially if they are brothers or related. Only hope is glasses, beard, distinctive clothes. Who is going to say that fella over there with blue eyes?

If a fella Paul was standing between two lads in wheelchair. Someone said where is Paul? I would say he is over there with the two lads in wheelchairs. An easy descriptior if there was no other people in wheelchairs around.

However if it was something like wheelchair rugby. Full of people in wheelchairs. Someone is looking for Joanne. But there is also a Joanne who is able bodied who I knew was the ref and another wheelchair user of the same name, Joanne. I am looking for able bodied Joanne.I say where is Joanne? What do I say then? The ref yer wan with the whistle!

The one thing that's common to your wonderfully contrived examples is of course context.

Of course there are examples of when using someone's skin colour may be of use, but that's not what happened with the FA story.

It's really not as confusing as you make out it is and only takes a tiny bit of awareness (especially if you are following this thread and have already been alerted to the issues!).

joeguevara

km991148 wrote: »

The one thing that's common to your wonderfully contrived examples is of course context.

Of course there are examples of when using someone's skin colour may be if use, but that's not what happened with the FA story.

It's really not as confusing as you make out it is and only takes a tiny bit of awareness (especially if you are following this thread and have already been alerted to the issues!).

Racists be racist.

km991148

joeguevara wrote: »

Racists be racist.

Racists gonna race..


Oh wait that doesn't work :pac:

gormdubhgorm

joeguevara wrote: »

Its amazing that you seem so hurt about this. Tell you what, you go about your day calling people coloureds, moaning about black history month and pointing about people in wheelchairs and I'll go about mine not doing that.

Not hurt at all you have completely missed the point and are now being deliberately obtuse. Making assumptions and trying to put words in my mouth, implying I am racist.
I noticed you did not address any of the points I made.

Also, I was not moaning about Black History month. I was merely pointing out the contradiction as it was used in a descriptor. As is Music of Black Origin and The Black managers association. As it highlights difference. And also uses the word 'Black'

By the tone of your post I may have hit a nerve which would make my point unpopular to you at least. As you immediately have extrapolated assumptions.
Which is telling. It is what is wrong with the world today.

joeguevara

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not hurt at all you have completely missed the point and are now being deliberately obtuse. Making assumptions and trying to put words in my mouth, implying I am racist.
I noticed you did not address any of the points I made.

Also, I was not moaning about Black History month. I was merely pointing out the contradiction as it was used in a descriptor. As is Music of Black Origin and The Black managers association. As it highlights difference. And also uses the word 'Black'

By the tone of your post I may have hit a nerve which would make my point unpopular to you at least. As you immediately have extrapolated assumptions.
Which is telling. It is what is wrong with the world today.

What is wrong with the world is people trying to shoehorn examples as ways of getting around racist language.

Racism does strike a nerve with me as I have personal experience of it.

Firstly there is nothing wrong with using the word black, as has been outlined numerous times. It is the word coloured that is the issue in this instance.

Why do people not realise that there is a difference.

Anyway, as I said if you want to continue using your language, even after people took the time to try and explain the difference, off with you.

gormdubhgorm

joeguevara wrote: »

Racists be racist.

Is this not questionable in itself using ebonics even ironically?
Unless you an American of course.

I have always found those type of 'be' appropriated by other cultures to seem a bit off.
Probably another popular opinion. Is it ironic or taking the mick?

joeguevara

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Is this not questionable in itself using ebonics even ironically?
Unless you an American of course.

I have always found those type of 'be' appropriated by other cultures to seem a bit off.
Probably another popular opinion. Is it ironic or taking the mick?

You really are trying hard now. This is not an example of ebonics or trying to speak in a black tone. An example of that would be "She BIN had dat han'-made dress" as per a search.

Perhaps have a look at an argument before trying to accuse someone of something that you clearly are yourself.

Omackeral

joeguevara wrote: »

It is the word coloured that is the issue in this instance.

The terms people of colour and coloured are both ridiculous imo. What's wrong with saying black, latino/latina, first nations or whatever it is. This need to seperate and label people as white and non-white is a bit mad.

joeguevara

Omackeral wrote: »

The terms people of colour and coloured are both ridiculous imo. What's wrong with saying black, latino/latina, first nations or whatever it is. This need to seperate and label people as white and non-white is a bit mad.

Nothing wrong with saying black. The issue being discussed is the dinosaur greg clarke being called up on using coloured.

Omackeral

joeguevara wrote: »

Nothing wrong with saying black. The issue being discussed is the dinosaur greg clarke being called up on using coloured.

Ok and I accept that. I think the term coloured is outdated for sure. I don't use it and don't like it. What about the main point I was making though, Joe. Why the need for this people of colour moniker that's on trend? Who is ''of colour''? Is it anyone who is not white? Is it a minority? Would people from Nigeria be referred to as people of colour within Nigeria? It seems needlessly divisive.

Gervais08

joeguevara wrote: »

Nothing wrong with saying black. The issue being discussed is the dinosaur greg clarke being called up on using coloured.

I assume you’ve cancelled the NAACP then ????

joeguevara

Gervais08 wrote: »

I assume you’ve cancelled the NAACP then ????

Not into cancel culture at all. Just not into racism either.

joeguevara

Omackeral wrote: »

Ok and I accept that. I think the term coloured is outdated for sure. I don't use it and don't like it. What about the main point I was making though, Joe. Why the need for this people of colour moniker that's on trend? Who is ''of colour''? Is it anyone who is not white? Is it a minority? Would people from Nigeria be referred to as people of colour within Nigeria? It seems needlessly divisive.

If im completely honest, I don't really understand the people of colour thing even though I have read a lot about it and I certainly dont use it.

gormdubhgorm

joeguevara wrote: »

What is wrong with the world is people trying to shoehorn examples as ways of getting around racist language.

Racism does strike a nerve with me as I have personal experience of it.

Firstly there is nothing wrong with using the word black, as has been outlined numerous times. It is the word coloured that is the issue in this instance.

Why do people not realise that there is a difference.

Anyway, as I said if you want to continue using your language, even after people took the time to try and explain the difference, off with you.

Where in the previous two posts did I mention coloured my point was highlighting difference and how the use of Black highlights difference BAME, MOBO's, Black Managers Association.
In my view it does not promote inclusiveness it only highlights difference.

Plus the reality is if the majority of people look a certain way others who don't stand out. Whether people are disabled in an able bodied world, black in a mostly white area/country, white in a black area or black country or Asian in a non Asian country/area.
Just a fact of life. Again by the tone of your post your pasat experiences have blinded you to my main point.

Over compensation and jumping over backwards inclusiveness actually highlight difference rather than encourage shared experiences.

You only have to look at the push to introduce 'hate crimes' in Ireland an unnecessary layer as crimes can be punished under regular legislation as is.
As an Irish citizen.

A hate crime layer is only called for by those organisations who have an agenda and use it as a number counting exercise. To justify a cause.

As a person who could be categorised in a group to which proposed legislation would 'protect' I object to being put in yet an other unnecessary box.
Supposedly fostering inclusiveness, but only succeeding in highlighting other.

Gervais08

joeguevara wrote: »

Not into cancel culture at all. Just not into racism either.

A deflection worthy of Pickford there ...

joeguevara

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Where in the previous two posts did I mention coloured my point was highlighting difference and how the use of Black highlights difference BAME, MOBO's, Black Managers Association.
In my view it does not promote inclusiveness it only highlights difference.

Plus the reality is if the majority of people look a certain way others who don't stand out. Whether people are disabled in an able bodied world, black in a mostly white area/country, white in a black area or black country or Asian in a non Asian country/area.
Just a fact of life. Again by the tone of your post your pasat experiences have blinded you to my main point.

Over compensation and jumping over backwards inclusiveness actually highlight difference rather than encourage shared experiences.

You only have to look at the push to introduce 'hate crimes' in Ireland an unnecessary layer as crimes can be punished under regular legislation as is.
As an Irish citizen.

A hate crime layer is only called for by those organisations who have an agenda and use it as a number counting exercise. To justify a cause.

As a person who could be categorised in a group to which proposed legislation would 'protect' I object to being put in yet an other unnecessary box.
Supposedly fostering inclusiveness, but only succeeding in highlighting other.

You are right. I want to apologise if I inferred that you were racist. I didn;t intend that and you make some good points.

I don't think Clarke was fit for purpose and deep down and maybe not so deep down he is a racist, mysoginist, homophobe and was the correct decision to remove him from his post or force a resignation.

Again, I think my main point is that nowhere have i been that i have needed to use a persons skin colour as a descriptor.

If someone used a term incorrectly, they should not be shunned or held as a pariah. However, clarke is not that person.

The hate crime issue, I can see from both sides but there is definitely merit in what you say,.

joeguevara

Gervais08 wrote: »

A deflection worthy of Pickford there ...

Hate pickford. Lloris all the way.

gormdubhgorm

joeguevara wrote: »

You really are trying hard now. This is not an example of ebonics or trying to speak in a black tone. An example of that would be "She BIN had dat han'-made dress" as per a search.

Not true 'racists be racists' which you said.

Is an example of African American vernacular. Otherwise known as ebonics.

In this case it is more specifically known as the "habitual be"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitual_be

https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/06/the-habitual-be-why-cookie-monster-be-eating-cookies-whether-he-is-eating-cookies-or-not.html

When used in conjunction with do/does it is similar to the Hiberno-English 'do be' structure.
'Does be' and do on.

Unpopular opinion having to explain something in detail to someone that they were blissfully unware of, without sounding like a condescending know it all!

joeguevara

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not true 'racists be racists' which you said.

Is an example of African American vernacular. Otherwise known as ebonics.

In this case it is more specifically known as the "habitual be"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitual_be

https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/06/the-habitual-be-why-cookie-monster-be-eating-cookies-whether-he-is-eating-cookies-or-not.html

When used in conjunction with done is similar to the Hiberno-English 'do be' structure.
'Does be' and do on.

Unpopular opinion having to explain something in detail to someone that they were blissfully unware of, without sounding like a condescending know it all!

does the 'never' not bring it into ebonics rather than 'x be y'

Gervais08

joeguevara wrote: »

Hate pickford. Lloris all the way.

More deflection... do you believe that the name of the NAACP is racist?

joeguevara

Gervais08 wrote: »

More deflection... do you believe that the name of the NAACP is racist?

Yes and have signed a petition for them to change it.

As an organisation formed in 1909 it is understandable that they used a term that was prevalent but should change it now. Doesn't mean that the work they do is any less and to call to cancel them is ridiculous, absurd but presumably an inflamatory question by yourself. Id sooner cancel ed sheeran.

Iscreamkone

In Ireland there are approximately 210 rugby clubs affiliated to the IRFU. (59 in Munster)
In Cork there are 259 GAA Clubs.

My unpopular opinion is that playing for Munster or Leinster or even Ireland in Rugby is only equivalent in sporting achievement to playing GAA for your county. (definitely the larger counties)

The achievement in getting a FAI Senior Cap is the greatest achievement in Irish sport as it is so difficult to beat off the large numbers competing for each spot.