Unpopular Opinions - OP Updated with Threadban List 4/5/21

partyguinness · 18-03-2021 10:26am

alchemist33 wrote: »

There were strong rumours Covid was transmitted by 5G too. I work in healthcare and know a pathologist and all the above is BS.

Ok...so several doctors, nurses and consultants (all unconnected) that I have personally chatted to in the comfort of my office over the past 12 months are all somehow conspiring to make up the same BS stores and spread it around for the sake of it. Right.

Even though you say work in healthcare (at what level is anyones's guess) do you think it is possible that perhaps you are not au fait with all the inner working of the healthcare system and that certain information is on a 'need to know basis'? i.e. you are not as clued in as you like to think you are.

So you are telling me that NHS hospitals in Engalnd are not getting payments on foot on C19 deaths. That is your absolute contention and you absolutely know this to be untrue?

Presumably you are working in a senior role within the NHS and in a postion to comment.

Eric Cartman · 18-03-2021 10:40am

partyguinness wrote: »

Ok...so several doctors, nurses and consultants (all unconnected) that I have personally chatted to in the comfort of my office over the past 12 months are all somehow conspiring to make up the same BS stores and spread it around for the sake of it. Right.

Even though you say work in healthcare (at what level is anyones's guess) do you think it is possible that perhaps you are not au fait with all the inner working of the healthcare system and that certain information is on a 'need to know basis'? i.e. you are not as clued in as you like to think you are.

So you are telling me that NHS hospitals in Engalnd are not getting payments on foot on C19 deaths. That is your absolute contention and you absolutely know this to be untrue?

Presumably you are working in a senior role within the NHS and in a postion to comment.

Im sure they receive some extra funding for managing additional costs regards handling infected dead bodies, but no chance its 35k a body as if it was some sort of financial incentive.

partyguinness · 18-03-2021 11:03am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im sure they receive some extra funding for managing additional costs regards handling infected dead bodies, but no chance its 35k a body as if it was some sort of financial incentive.

I am definitely going to query that figure the next time I have a doctor or consultant in front of me. I will be speaking to a pharmacist later (who runs 4 pharmacies out of 4 different NHS hospitals) and I will bring it up if I get the chance to see if he has heard of this. It does seem incredible.

As you said I am sure they get extra funding but £35k does seem excessive.

ohnonotgmail · 18-03-2021 11:13am

partyguinness wrote: »

Ok...so several doctors, nurses and consultants (all unconnected) that I have personally chatted to in the comfort of my office over the past 12 months are all somehow conspiring to make up the same BS stores and spread it around for the sake of it. Right.

Even though you say work in healthcare (at what level is anyones's guess) do you think it is possible that perhaps you are not au fait with all the inner working of the healthcare system and that certain information is on a 'need to know basis'? i.e. you are not as clued in as you like to think you are.

So you are telling me that NHS hospitals in Engalnd are not getting payments on foot on C19 deaths. That is your absolute contention and you absolutely know this to be untrue?

Presumably you are working in a senior role within the NHS and in a postion to comment.

why would doctors or nurses "need to know" about the financial side of the NHS?

partyguinness · 18-03-2021 11:22am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why would doctors or nurses "need to know" about the financial side of the NHS?

Well, that's kinda my point to that poster.

If I have a senior consultant telling me X, Y and Z but then say, a junior nurse (or a generic healthcare worker) pipes up saying it is not true because they basically have not heard it, does not make it untrue. Inevitably a senior consultant will have access to far greater information than a junior nurse.

ohnonotgmail · 18-03-2021 11:37am

partyguinness wrote: »

Well, that's kinda my point to that poster.

If I have a senior consultant telling me X, Y and Z but then say, a junior nurse (or a generic healthcare worker) pipes up saying it is not true because they basically have not heard it, does not make it untrue. Inevitably a senior consultant will have access to far greater information than a junior nurse.

even if I had a senior consultant telling me they was a payment of 35K for each covid patient I would want a little more than their word. that rumour has been doing the rounds almost since the beginning. if there was anything to it we would have heard more about it from a proper source.

The Raging Bile Duct · 18-03-2021 11:55am

partyguinness wrote: »

Well, that's kinda my point to that poster.

If I have a senior consultant telling me X, Y and Z but then say, a junior nurse (or a generic healthcare worker) pipes up saying it is not true because they basically have not heard it, does not make it untrue. Inevitably a senior consultant will have access to far greater information than a junior nurse.

It is quite startling that you have this insider knowledge, that can't be substantiated anywhere on the internet as far I can tell, from all the doctors, surgeons and pharmacists that come into your office.

35,000 is a figure bandied about in America in relation to ventilated patients and inflated Covid numbers.

FULL QUESTION
Are hospitals getting 13,000 per patient if they write that on the diagnosis is COVID19 on the patient’s chart, and 35,000 for each patient if they are on ventilators?

I keep seeing posts in social media claiming that hospitals are over-stating covid-19 deaths because the they are paid more for these deaths … The YouTube video link here is attributed to Fox News with the headline “US: Hospitals Get Paid More to List Patients as COVID-19…” Can you provide any clarification?

You can read the reply on Factcheck.org here.

Doctor Jimbob · 18-03-2021 12:01pm

caveat emptor wrote: »

Can we just declare as a US colony / satellite state. We are defacto that anyway but doing it might mean we get some vaccines a lot quicker.

Joe looks younger than MM there.

cms88 · 18-03-2021 12:10pm

partyguinness wrote: »

I am in England and there has always been very strong rumours since day one that the Covid figures are massively inflated. I have had doctors and nurses rolling their eyes with a nod and a wink..and straight up saying that not as bad as it is made out...plus hospitals sticking down Covid on every death certificate no matter what and families calling BS on it.

Speaking to a guy today at work. His brother is an A&E consultant locally ....this was not some crazy loon at a bus stop...his brother admitted that the hospital gets £35k per Covid death listed. Make of that what you will...

This is being said from very early on. Has anyone actually got anything to back it up? People saying if someone dies in a car crash etc it's being put down as Covid. How can people actually believe that?

partyguinness · 18-03-2021 12:18pm

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

It is quite startling that you have this insider knowledge, that can't be substantiated anywhere on the internet as far I can tell, from all the doctors, surgeons and pharmacists that come into your office.

35,000 is a figure bandied about in America in relation to ventilated patients and inflated Covid numbers.

You can read the reply on Factcheck.org here.

Well it's not that startling. It is just a reflection of the company I keep in my professinal life. I suppose that is the difference. I am speaking direct and face to face with senior medical personnal and you are depending on Google...;)

As I said earlier, yesterday was the first time I heard an actual monetary figure being thrown around. I will put the question to a few others in the know and see what reponse I get.

partyguinness · 18-03-2021 12:35pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

even if I had a senior consultant telling me they was a payment of 35K for each covid patient I would want a little more than their word. that rumour has been doing the rounds almost since the beginning. if there was anything to it we would have heard more about it from a proper source.

So if say a senior consultant says to you or even several consultants say that his hopsital gets £35k per Covid death that would not be "a proper source" and you would want further evidence. Fair enough that is your prerogative.

I am not sure how many consultants you are friendly with but in my experience they are not in the habit of just mouthing off random BS.

You see that is the mistake some Joe Soaps makes in this day and age. They think every piece of information is out there in the public sphere and just a quick Google search away from a "proper source". If you can't find it on Google then it can't be true.

You mentioned that it has been doing the rounds since day one. I have to admit I had never heard of it before. Maybe the £35k is a complete crock of **** but I do find it strange that it is coming from medical personnal which is the only reason I posted it. But it is certainly a question I will put to a few others I know over the coming weeks. Call me old fashioned but I will depend of a direct conversations rather than a Google search.

randd1 · 18-03-2021 12:38pm

A government programme should be formed with the main purpose of implementing order on the human population, starting with a standard pregnancy control programme that limits reproduction until a licence is granted to the couple, with people who don't take appropriate care of their first child not eligible to receive a licence for any more children.

cnocbui · 18-03-2021 12:46pm

randd1 wrote: »

A government programme should be formed with the main purpose of implementing order on the human population, starting with a standard pregnancy control programme that limits reproduction until a licence is granted to the couple, with people who don't take appropriate care of their first child not eligible to receive a licence for any more children.

Emigrate to China, you'll fit right in.

ohnonotgmail · 18-03-2021 12:48pm

partyguinness wrote: »

So if say a senior consultant says to you or even several consultants say that his hopsital gets £35k per Covid death that would not be "a proper source" and you would want further evidence. Fair enough that is your prerogative.

I am not sure how many consultants you are friendly with but in my experience they are not in the habit of just mouthing off random BS.

You see that is the mistake some Joe Soaps makes in this day and age. They think every piece of information is out there in the public sphere and just a quick Google search away from a "proper source". If you can't find it on Google then it can't be true.

You mentioned that it has been doing the rounds since day one. I have to admit I had never heard of it before. Maybe the £35k is a complete crock of **** but I do find it strange that it is coming from medical personnal which is the only reason I posted it. But it is certainly a question I will put to a few others I know over the coming weeks. Call me old fashioned but I will depend of a direct conversations rather than a Google search.

if there was a 35K payment somebody, somewhere, would have released proof to a journalist or similar. nothing. not a single thing. it is all "i have a friend that is a consultant/nurse/whatever and they said it to me the other day".

ohnonotgmail · 18-03-2021 12:48pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Emigrate to China, you'll fit right in.

even they eventually realised it was a stupid idea.

cnocbui · 18-03-2021 12:54pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

even they eventually realised it was a stupid idea.

Well they are currently carrying out a program of sanctioned rapes, forced abortions and sterilisation of Uyghur women in an attempt at genocide, so they will be able to slot him in there.

randd1 · 18-03-2021 12:56pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Emigrate to China, you'll fit right in.

I'm not saying people can't reproduce. Just that they have to have their ducks in a row and act responsibly towards their kids when they decide to have children.

The amount of kids these days that are neglected or mis-treated, or have little or no interaction with one or both of their parents, or are brought up in a home you wouldn't leave a dog in is chronic. The only thing really stopping us slipping into the utter mire is the availability of dear but affordable housing and relatively free education. And even the chance of having those are under threat for the next generation which will only make things worse. We're going to have serious problems in the next generation or two.

Which is where ensuring people who take care of their children can reproduce and those that can't, or won't, don't. A harsh reality, but one that means children are cared for appropriately.

partyguinness · 18-03-2021 12:58pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if there was a 35K payment somebody, somewhere, would have released proof to a journalist or similar. nothing. not a single thing. it is all "i have a friend that is a consultant/nurse/whatever and they said it to me the other day".

You are assuming it is something controversial and worthy of releasing to the press for some sort of scandal to erupt.

It is absolutely based on my personal conversations. I have been crystal clear about that and not suggested otherwise. You are skeptical and would prefer solid sources to back it up- that's understandable. I bet a lot of people are and I won't take much notice of it myself which is why I will ask around. Well, come to think about it I am really not that bothered even if such payments are indeed made.

cnocbui · 18-03-2021 1:04pm

randd1 wrote: »

I'm not saying people can't reproduce. Just that they have to have their ducks in a row and act responsibly towards their kids when they decide to have children.

The amount of kids these days that are neglected or mis-treated, or have little or no interaction with one or both of their parents, or are brought up in a home you wouldn't leave a dog in is chronic. The only thing really stopping us slipping into the utter mire is the availability of dear but affordable housing and relatively free education. And even the chance of having those are under threat for the next generation which will only make things worse. We're going to have serious problems in the next generation or two.

Which is where ensuring people who take care of their children can reproduce and those that can't, or won't, don't. A harsh reality, but one that means children are cared for appropriately.

Your ideas stink and signal a sense of immaturity.

randd1 · 18-03-2021 1:05pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Your ideas stink and signal a sense of immaturity.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Also, bear in mind the thread title.

Quazzie · 18-03-2021 1:10pm

partyguinness wrote: »

As I said earlier, yesterday was the first time I heard an actual monetary figure being thrown around.

partyguinness wrote: »

So if say a senior consultant says to you or even several consultants say that his hopsital gets £35k per Covid death

Which is true? Was it yesterday, or was it several consultants?

You're tripping yourself up with your bullsh1t.

partyguinness · 18-03-2021 1:36pm

Quazzie wrote: »

Which is true? Was it yesterday, or was it several consultants?

You're tripping yourself up with your bullsh1t.

No. I am afraid you are mixing up two different posts/points and taking them out of context.

1. The first is correct;
2. The second post was a direct reference to a poster who says they would prefer more solid proof rather than relaying on the word of one consultant. So I said if one or several consultants said it as a general point he still would not take it as a proper source- fair enough. I have had conversations with different consulatants with regard other points made earlier in the thread (numbers on death certs etc) but yesterday was the first time I heard about purported payments.

There are two distinct points. Can you tell the difference? I trust that clears up any confusion for you.

joseywhales · 18-03-2021 1:42pm

Regarding the southern us border. I think at some point they will have to just shoot dead anyone who tries to cross without going to a border checkpoint. After a few deaths they will stop coming and follow the procedure. Anything less and the surge will continue putting more lives at risk.

randd1 · 18-03-2021 1:45pm

joseywhales wrote: »

Regarding the southern us border. I think at some point they will have to just shoot dead anyone who tries to cross without going to a border checkpoint. After a few deaths they will stop coming and follow the procedure. Anything less and the surge will continue putting more lives at risk.

I don't think they'll just have to shoot someone as a warning. But I reckon it'll happen either way.

ohnonotgmail · 18-03-2021 1:47pm

randd1 wrote: »

I'm not saying people can't reproduce. Just that they have to have their ducks in a row and act responsibly towards their kids when they decide to have children.

The amount of kids these days that are neglected or mis-treated, or have little or no interaction with one or both of their parents, or are brought up in a home you wouldn't leave a dog in is chronic. The only thing really stopping us slipping into the utter mire is the availability of dear but affordable housing and relatively free education. And even the chance of having those are under threat for the next generation which will only make things worse. We're going to have serious problems in the next generation or two.

Which is where ensuring people who take care of their children can reproduce and those that can't, or won't, don't. A harsh reality, but one that means children are cared for appropriately.

so the state gets to decide who can have children? I can't see any issue with that at all. absolutely none. No downsides there at all.

randd1 · 18-03-2021 2:00pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so the state gets to decide who can have children? I can't see any issue with that at all. absolutely none. No downsides there at all.

No. The people who want to have children get to decide to have them.

They just have to show in advance that they're willing to and committed to taking on the responsibility, and have thought it out.

And that they have to take care of any children to they do have appropriately before they have more children.

Quazzie · 18-03-2021 2:06pm

partyguinness wrote: »

No. I am afraid you are mixing up two different posts/points and taking them out of context.

1. The first is correct;
2. The second post was a direct reference to a poster who says they would prefer more solid proof rather than relaying on the word of one consultant. So I said if one or several consultants said it as a general point he still would not take it as a proper source- fair enough. I have had conversations with different consulatants with regard other points made earlier in the thread (numbers on death certs etc) but yesterday was the first time I heard about purported payments.

There are two distinct points. Can you tell the difference? I trust that clears up any confusion for you.

You clearly said that "several consultants say that his hopsital gets £35k per Covid death". If you only heard of the £35k figure yesterday, this would suggest that you were talking to "several consultants" yesterday.

For your own reference the £35k figure was doing the rounds last year, except it was $35k as it started in the US. It was proven to be false then also.

Whilst consultants might have better knowledge of hospital budgeting than the common man on the street, they would definitely not know all the facts with certainty. They are just as susceptible to facebook lies, and conspiracy theories as anyone else. Being a doctor does not make you infallible.

It's unfortunate that you seemed to have taken their word as gospel and tried to pass it off as FACT

partyguinness · 18-03-2021 2:40pm

Quazzie wrote: »

You clearly said that "several consultants say that his hopsital gets £35k per Covid death". If you only heard of the £35k figure yesterday, this would suggest that you were talking to "several consultants" yesterday.

Oh dear. There you go again. Selective quoting to misrepresent. I have taken the liberty of quoting the direct paragragh with the bits you have left out. What I "clearly" said was:-

"So if say a senior consultant says to you or even several consultants say that his hopsital gets £35k per Covid death that would not be "a proper source" and you would want further evidence. Fair enough that is your prerogative."

I have highlighted in bold the important bit which was "clearly" a hypothetical proposition to that poster.

Quazzie wrote: »

For your own reference the £35k figure was doing the rounds last year, except it was $35k as it started in the US. It was proven to be false then also.

And? That has absolutely noting to do with my post.

Quazzie wrote: »

Whilst consultants might have better knowledge of hospital budgeting than the common man on the street, they would definitely not know all the facts with certainty. They are just as susceptible to facebook lies, and conspiracy theories as anyone else. Being a doctor does not make you infallible.

Of course not. Who has suggested otherwise? Again as I have said, it may be BS but then again it may be "fact".

How do you know it is not fact? Let me guess...you can't find it on Google.

Quazzie wrote: »

It's unfortunate that you seemed to have taken their word as gospel and tried to pass it off as FACT

"fact"...where did I do that. I simply posted the contents of a conversation I had. Make of it as you will as I already said. I did not purport anything as "fact". As I also said it may well be crock of **** but it is noteworthy coming from medical personnal. Again, I have also said that it is something I am going to ask other medical personnal I meet over the coming weeks.

I actually said at the end of the original post "Well that is interesting..." i.e. thought provoking.

I didnt say "Well, that is the gospel truth/fact. End of."

It seems that you also part of the "If it ain't on Google then it cannot be true" brigade.

Again, as I have also said, call me old fashioned but if I am having conversations with a nurse, doctor or a consultant (of which I have had many over the past 12 months) who work every day in a busy acute hospital and on Covid wards and they make X,Y and Z comments then yes, I am going to take those comments more seriously than some random anonymous crap on public internet forums.

How you take the posts are entirely up to you and no skin off my nose. For your own sake I would go have a lie down- you seem very uptight.

cnocbui · 18-03-2021 3:07pm

randd1 wrote: »

No. The people who want to have children get to decide to have them.

They just have to show in advance that they're willing to and committed to taking on the responsibility, and have thought it out.

And that they have to take care of any children to they do have appropriately before they have more children.

How do you show those things in advance? I presume we'd need forced abortions for those who didn't get the nod beforehand or forced removal of the babies just after birth so the state can better care for them, which has been proven to be so successful and optimal in every country where state intervention in child rearing has taken place?

How many thousands of public servants do you imagine would need to be employed to administer and enforce such a scheme and have you costed it it? How much?

In the past, Aboriginal babies in Australia were taken from their parents to be reared by superior parenting white people. That worked out well. In Greenland, Innuit babies and children were removed from their familes and taken to Denmark to be raised with superior white european parents. That also worked out well.

Ireland's 'brutally misogynistic culture' saw the death of 9,000 children in mother and baby homes, report finds

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/europe/ireland-mother-baby-homes-final-report-intl/index.html

I am not surprised an Irish person is putting forward such an idea, you've got good form there. the rest of the world is mighty impressed.

The actual histories and consequences for children where state interventions and controls on fertility and nurturing were implimentad, read like horror stories.

Your idea is incredibly stupid and shows a thorough lack of awareness for the history of such meddling.

I am aware of the thread title, and you sure hit one right out of the park, but the title does not suggest people shouldnt respond.

ohnonotgmail · 18-03-2021 3:12pm

randd1 wrote: »

No. The people who want to have children get to decide to have them.

They just have to show in advance that they're willing to and committed to taking on the responsibility, and have thought it out.

so they have to seek permission before having children? it is not really clear what you are proposing.

randd1 wrote: »

And that they have to take care of any children to they do have appropriately before they have more children.

appropriate according to who, the government?
and if they don't do it appropriately they are not allowed to have more? that does sound a lot like the government gets to decide who can procreate.

Unpopular Opinions - OP Updated with Threadban List 4/5/21

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