Unpopular Opinions - OP Updated with Threadban List 4/5/21

Hamachi

Omackeral wrote: »

Never claimed to have, just giving a personal opinion. Many claim that they have a command of the Irish language or that they’re followers of the Roman Catholic faith but I’d certainly have my doubts. Nothing stopping anyone from doing it.

If somebody ticks the catholic or Irish-speaking box on the census, I trust that they’re a competent adult and self-identify that way regardless of what I think.

Not to open another Pandora’s box, but I personally do not believe that a person born with male genitalia is a woman or vice versa. However, if that person believes themselves to be a female and ticks that box on the census, I respect their right to do so. My personal beliefs do not override their right to self-identification. From a statistical standpoint, they are also counted as a woman regardless of what you or I may think privately.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But the schools aren’t that religious. As I said. To make the existing catholic schools religious would take a act that would change the vast majority of supposedly religious schools not at all on their day to day running, teaching staff, and/or curriculum. So let’s do it but the whole hysteria about “religious indoctrination” is just that.

I’d get rid of private schools before, or at the same time, defund them.

Thankfully my child and unborn child are not yet of school going age so I can hope that religion will be completely removed before then. But what do you mean when you say they aren't "that religious"? And if they're not "that religious" then what would be the big deal on removing it completely? I don't think it's sufficient to say children can opt out. If someone wants their child taught religion, then they should have to opt in, preferably outside of school time. What do children who opt out do while religion is going on? It's as much a consideration about wasting other people's time as anything.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

Never claimed to have, just giving a personal opinion. Many claim that they have a command of the Irish language or that they’re followers of the Roman Catholic faith but I’d certainly have my doubts. Nothing stopping anyone from doing it.

People might be ticking culturally Catholic but so what? I’m not a believer myself and would do that. Probably get a Catholic funeral as well. Marriage was humanist.

I’ve been to church weddings. I’ve been to Hindu weddings. I doubt in the latter case if more than 10% of people believed in Hindu gods. People are cultural.

As for opposition to the Irish language I’d believe that there was much opposition to that when I see a party form, or an existing party have as its manifesto, that Irish be removed from the constitution. There’s a lot of hate for the language online, in real life not so much.

Antares35

Antares35 wrote: »

Thankfully my child and unborn child are not yet of school going age so I can hope that religion will be completely removed before then. But what do you mean when you say they aren't "that religious"? And if they're not "that religious" then what would be the big deal on removing it completely? I don't think it's sufficient to say children can opt out. If someone wants their child taught religion, then they should have to opt in, preferably outside of school time. What do children who opt out do while religion is going on? It's as much a consideration about wasting other people's time as anything.

I think it’s clear they aren’t that religious. For the reasons I already gave. I’m not really opposed to the religious losing control of the schools but I find the whole treatment of Irish Catholic schools as equivalent to fundamental madrassas hysterical. Also private schools to be abolished first.

As I said my kids did not attend religious sacraments but did not leave the classrooms or make a fuss about it - for goodness sake it is mostly just colouring in pictures of a nice looking hippie chap in flowing robes and making papier mache decorations about what love and kindness means. They are not ceaselessly reciting sutras under the threat of a stick or anything. If anything it is just something else to have a little muse about.
For my part I brought them on different occasions to Catholic churches, Tibetan Buddhist ceremonies, pagan rituals, Hindu and Muslim services - if anything these are cultural happenings that can stimulate and interest the growing mind in the whole panoply of human experience.
When we travel together as adults they join me as I wander round huge famous cathedrals and monasteries and temples, because these places are some of the most inspiring and beautiful and mysterious structures humanity has ever constructed. I remember how awed the kids were upon seeing some famous works of religious art in Churches on holidays - pinching off children's natural interest in a metaphysical possibility is also bigoted. In my opinion.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think it’s clear they aren’t that religious.

Ok well thanks for answering my question.

And for the avoidance of doubt, nobody is "hysterical".

igCorcaigh

Hamachi wrote: »

If somebody ticks the catholic or Irish-speaking box on the census, I trust that they’re a competent adult and self-identify that way regardless of what I think.

Not to open another Pandora’s box, but I personally do not believe that a person born with male genitalia is a woman or vice versa. However, if that person believes themselves to be a female and ticks that box on the census, I respect their right to do so. My personal beliefs do not override their right to self-identification. From a statistical standpoint, they are also counted as a woman regardless of what you or I may think privately.

I think a nice way of handling the gender question, is Sex at birth, and another question for Gender.

Hamachi

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As I said my kids did not attend religious sacraments but did not leave the classrooms or make a fuss about it - for goodness sake it is mostly just colouring in pictures of a nice looking hippie chap in flowing robes and making papier mache decorations about what love and kindness means. They are not ceaselessly reciting sutras under the threat of a stick or anything. If anything it is just something else to have a little muse about.
For my part I brought them on different occasions to Catholic churches, Tibetan Buddhist ceremonies, pagan rituals, Hindu and Muslim services - if anything these are cultural happenings that can stimulate and interest the growing mind in the whole panoply of human experience.
When we travel together as adults they join me as I wander round huge famous cathedrals and monasteries and temples, because these places are some of the most inspiring and beautiful and mysterious structures humanity has ever constructed. I remember how awed the kids were upon seeing some famous works of religious art in Churches on holidays - pinching off children's natural interest in a metaphysical possibility is also bigoted. In my opinion.

Nothing to add except that I really enjoyed reading your perspective.

Hamachi

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I think a nice way of handling the gender question, is Sex at birth, and another question for Gender.

That is an elegant solution. The only thing is that if there are too many questions on the census, nobody will complete the damn thing

walshb

Antares35 wrote: »

In society...

Yes

And schools are part of society.

walshb

Antares35 wrote: »

Or maybe we don't want our children to have anything to do with an institution that protected and relocated paedophiles, told women that they were unclean after birth (many of which births arose because it was a sin to refuse your husband), we don't feel comfortable dressing our daughters up in little wedding gowns so we can invite all the family along to take nice pictures in the church and go for a nice meal and few pints after. You can argue all you like that it has changed but go out and ask any homosexual man if he feels hurt and betrayed by the church's insistence that he is living a life of sin - marriages still can't be blessed between two gay people.

Or, perhaps we would simply prefer religion to take its hands out of the states pockets and for people who genuinely want their kids to have a religious education to pay for it themselves - if it is important to them, they will. I'd rather my child spent her time learning a useful language.

Point is, there are a lot of reasons why people don't want their children to have to sit through religion in school - it doesn't make then anti religious or zealots, and your assertion that we take this position because it's fashionable? Well, there isn't really any response to that except to say it's ridiculous. I don't parent my child according to fads and trends - she means more to me than that

Most this is just focusing on all the negativity and issues that religion has had. There is also the good in it. It is also heavily focusing on the past and the past issues and troubles

We are in 2021 now.....nobody in Irish schools should have any fear or panic about religion. Our children are in a far more liberal and inclusive society, as well as a far more engaging and tolerant society....

I think it's a huge insincere and OTT hostile reaction towards religion from many people. Constantly pointing to the past and the issues of the past to justify their fake hostility

ohnonotgmail

walshb wrote: »

Most this is just focusing on all the negativity and issues that religion has had. There is also the good in it. It is also heavily focusing on the past and the past issues and troubles

We are in 2021 now.....nobody in Irish schools should have any fear or panic about religion. Our children are in a far more liberal and inclusive society, as well as a far more engaging and tolerant society....

I think it's a huge insincere and OTT hostile reaction towards religion from many people. Constantly pointing to the past and the issues of the past to justify their fake hostility

i can assure you there is nothing fake about it. if you think that peoples hostility towards an organisation that aided and abetted the rape of children within the not so distant past is fake then you are deluded.

Antares35

walshb wrote: »

Most this is just focusing on all the negativity and issues that religion has had. There is also the good in it. It is also heavily focusing on the past and the past issues and troubles

We are in 2021 now.....nobody in Irish schools should have any fear or panic about religion. Our children are in a far more liberal and inclusive society, as well as a far more engaging and tolerant society....

I think it's a huge insincere and OTT hostile reaction towards religion from many people. Constantly pointing to the past and the issues of the past to justify their fake hostility

I'm not getting into a religious merits debate with you on this thread. Much of what you say is true, but is a case for supporting the place of religion as an option, in society. It doesn't support the existence of religion, as something mandatory, in our childrens' education system.

I guess some of us are just quicker to forgive and forget. Parenting as you see fit does not make you "hostile" or "insincere". Nor does it mean you are panicking. These accusations don't do anything for you. Liberalism, inclusion, tolerance etc. are not qualities that instantly come to mind when I think of religion, well not the Catholic one anyway

Antares35

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i can assure you there is nothing fake about it. if you think that peoples hostility towards an organisation that aided and abetted the rape of children within the not so distant past is fake then you are deluded.

Apparently it's ok because it happened in the past and now we are in 2021. I must remember this as a line of defence the next time I find myself hauled up on some kind of horrendous charge of harm against another.

Pussyhands

Women are far more gullible than men as evidenced by influencers online.

SoSueMe for example has a massive number of followers, all women who all believe the bull****. No, she didn't make any products, she just imports it from China and sticks her logo on it. Special shout out for them following her and congratulating them on new houses/engagements etc. They just want your money ffs.

Antares35

Pussyhands wrote: »

Women are far more gullible than men as evidenced by influencers online.

SoSueMe for example has a massive number of followers, all women who all believe the bull****. No, she didn't make any products, she just imports it from China and sticks her logo on it. Special shout out for them following her and congratulating them on new houses/engagements etc. They just want your money ffs.

And what's with her name??

JimmyVik

I always found it amusing how most people seem to hate teachers.

Is it some form of mental issue where they cant let go of the days when teachers used to scare them, so they are now getting them back any chance they can

It really is amusing.

I get good holidays in my job (not as much as a teachers though). I wouldnt dare complain about someone else getting better holidays than me. Because then I think that some people get no holidays at all, so what have i got to complain about really.

I do about the same hours as a teacher, but i get more breaks during the day i would guess.
Most of my colleagues are the same, but to hear them rounding on teachers, and not realizing that so many others could say exactly the same about our jobs is just amusing.

Oh and landlords is another one. Everyone thinks that landlords are all big bad scumbags out to get them. I did 2 years research itno buying an investment property and i didnt go ahead with it. I dont think its worth it. But everyone thinks their landlords are somehow squeezing the blood out of them.

Sometimes its good to look from the other side.

Easy to tell im bored today. Server gone down in work, so im sitting here looking for things to get outraged at

partyguinness

In 2020 I had two days off and that was a Friday and Monday spent in an airport travelling. That's right 2 full days off. Took bank holidays etc but just the 2.

Self employed with another guy and we run the place. 7 staff furloughed but we were here just the two of us for 3 months 9-5 without fail Monday to Friday.

JimmyVik

Oh and Athiests (Full disclosure here, i am one) who have to declare they are Athiest, but also being just plain mean to people who believe in God, Allah or whatever.

If someone believes in a God, let them be. Nobody is requiring you to believe in it, so what harm have they done to you?

Ive been to churches. Got married in a church. Children went to school which i assume is Catholic, but honestly i couldnt even be bothered if its catholic or not. They come home and say nice things about Jesus etc. which I think is actually nice.
When they are old enough, like me, they can decide what they want to believe in, but its not like learning about the bible or whatever is going to do them any harm these days. I would like to think i bring them up to be critical thinkers.

Anyway, ive never caught fire in a church myself, so dont really care that other people believe Jesus is in there. When I do have to go to a church for a wedding or a christening I stand up, kneel down etc out of respect for those around me whos religion i am in the presence of.

Athiests need to get over themselves. They are actually worse than preachers the way they go on.

yourdeadwright

Pussyhands wrote: »

Women are far more gullible than men as evidenced by influencers online.

SoSueMe for example has a massive number of followers, all women who all believe the bull****. No, she didn't make any products, she just imports it from China and sticks her logo on it. Special shout out for them following her and congratulating them on new houses/engagements etc. They just want your money ffs.

So true,
The whole strong independent women brigade who then start an Instagram vote to decide what hair cut to get & all walk around looking like clones of the latest on trend influencer ,

JimmyVik

partyguinness wrote: »

In 2020 I had two days off and that was a Friday and Monday spent in an airport travelling. That's right 2 full days off. Took bank holidays etc but just the 2.

Self employed with another guy and we run the place. 7 staff furloughed but we were here just the two of us for 3 months 9-5 without fail Monday to Friday.

Well arent you lucky to have a job. 10s of thousands would love to be where you are.


Id love to quit and get the pandemic payment myself Just for 6 months or so.

partyguinness

JimmyVik wrote: »

Oh and Athiests (Full disclosure here, i am one) who have to declare they are Athiest, but also being just plain mean to people who believe in God, Allah or whatever.

If someone believes in a God, let them be. Nobody is requiring you to believe in it, so what harm have they done to you?

Ive been to churches. Got married in a church. Children went to school which i assume is Catholic, but honestly i couldnt even be bothered if its catholic or not. They come home and say nice things about Jesus etc. which I think is actually nice.
When they are old enough, like me, they can decide what they want to believe in, but its not like learning about the bible or whatever is going to do them any harm these days. I would like to think i bring them up to be critical thinkers.

Anyway, ive never caught fire in a church myself, so dont really care that other people believe Jesus is in there. When I do have to go to a church for a wedding or a christening I stand up, kneel down etc out of respect for those around me whos religion i am in the presence of.

Athiests need to get over themselves. They are actually worse than preachers the way they go on.

I always point out to atheists that atheism is a belief in itself. I will sit on the fence and declare myself agnostic simply because I have no idea and truth be told I am not that bothered.

Do I believe there is a God? No. But at the same time I can no more prove God does not exist than a someone can prove God does exist.

partyguinness

JimmyVik wrote: »

Well arent you lucky to have a job. 10s of thousands would love to be where you are.


Id love to quit and get the pandemic payment myself Just for 6 months or so.

Well indeed. I am not complaining just a martyr...:D


Our goal was to make sure everyone else has a job to come back to. Succeeded on that front and even took ona new person.

JimmyVik

partyguinness wrote: »

I always point out to atheists that atheism is a belief in itself. I will sit on the fence and declare myself agnostic simply because I have no idea and truth be told I am not that bothered.

Do I believe there is a God? No. But at the same time I can no more prove God does not exist than a someone can prove God does exist.

Well said.
But I couldnt class myself as agnostic, because i dont believe that any science could support the existence of any god.

Unless agnostic means that I dont care whether there is a god or not. In that case call me antagonistic.


I have no problem whatsoever though with those who do believe in a god. In fact if it gives them comfort, im all for it.
I do have a problem with people telling others that their belief that there is no god is more valid than someone else belief in a god.

Antares35

JimmyVik wrote: »

Unless antagonistic means that I dont care whether there is a god or not. In that case call me antagonistic.

ohnonotgmail

JimmyVik wrote: »

Well said.
But I couldnt class myself as antagonistic, because i dont believe that any science could support the existence of any god.

Unless antagonistic means that I dont care whether there is a god or not. In that case call me antagonistic.


I have no problem whatsoever though with those who do believe in a god. In fact if it gives them comfort, im all for it.
I do have a problem with people telling others that their belief that there is no god is more valid than someone else belief in a god.

do have a problem with people telling others that their belief in a god is more valid than someone else who doesn't believe in a god.

JimmyVik

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do have a problem with people telling others that their belief in a god is more valid than someone else who doesn't believe in a god.

Yes. But in general that doesnt happen to me.
Used to happen back when I was young, but society has moved on and we can all have opinions now without being roasted for them (well we could until internet outrage and byullying became a thing).

Even the Mormons calling to the door doesnt bother me.
Even scientologists. But to be fair, they shouldnt be calling to doors at all.

At the end of the day an intelligent person does not need to worry in the least about what gods others believe in.

Antares35

JimmyVik wrote: »

Yes. But in general that doesnt happen to me.
Used to happen back when I was young, but society has moved on and we can all have opinions now without being roasted for them (well we could until internet outrage and byullying became a thing).


Even the Mormons calling to the door doesnt bother me.
Even scientologists. But to be fair, they shouldnt be calling to doors at all.

My brother accepted one of those watch tower magazines once and they kept calling. He used to hide when they'd ring the bell instead of just politely telling them he wasn't interested I still have the magazine.

ohnonotgmail

JimmyVik wrote: »

Yes. But in general that doesnt happen to me.
Used to happen back when I was young, but society has moved on and we can all have opinions now without being roasted for them (well we could until internet outrage and byullying became a thing).


Even the Mormons calling to the door doesnt bother me.
Even scientologists. But to be fair, they shouldnt be calling to doors at all.

so the opinions of religious people don't bother you but when atheists have a similar opinion you have an issue? do I understand you correctly?

JimmyVik

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so the opinions of religious people don't bother you but when atheists have a similar opinion you have an issue? do I understand you correctly?

You arent making much sense here.
Im an athiest. You are clearly an athiest too.
Are you a live and let live athiest, or do you want everyone else to be an athiest too?
Does it hurt you if say the next poster is not an athiest?
If not, then leave them be, we all just get along. If it does bother you, you are a preachy athiest im afraid.