Unpopular Opinions - OP Updated with Threadban List 4/5/21

cruizer101

FileNotFound wrote: »

So just because someone may pay more means the tickets should be a higher price to start with?

Yes

Supply is limited (and in the unique case of concerts can't really be increased beyond a certain limit) demand is high that results is a high value.

I don't decide the value.
The artist doesn't decide the value.
The agent doesn't decide the value.

The market, the person who buys the ticket, decides the value.

It is as simple as that.
The agent sells the tickets at a discount, the price difference between what it is sold for and what it is worth means someone can make a profit, if someone can make a profit they will.

The agent could if they wanted stop touting, sell at market value, sell with an attached name that requires id, better website tools to restrict touts buying large numbers of tickets. The fact is they choose not to, that is their choice.

The government should not step in to legislate on the price of such a discretionary item. In my as it turns out unpopular opinion that is a step too far.
Should they legislate on other limited items?

fvp4

fvp4 wrote: »

Ok. Maybe I’m under estimating the gang issue. Not that you’ve proven anything about that.

I’m fine with getting rid of the online resellers particularly the ones owned by ticketmaster.

However the guy in the street does in fact provide a service. People do travel without tickets to games or events in the hope of buying a ticket there.

The entire industry has a problem. A minority of tickets go on sale to the general public because so many are given as perks all the way down the line, to competitions, to giveaways, to residents near the ground, to promotional competitions etc. And lots of these tickets end up on tout sites.

Then you have tout gangs snapping up the tickets faster than most regular people can get them. And they sell them on tout sites as well. I see no problem with cutting this aspect off and giving people their fair chance.


Fans who were shut out of One Direction’s sold-out July 2 concert at the Izod Center were very disappointed-crushed even.

Even before the tickets went on sale to the public, only a small fraction of the 13,687 seats — just 4,474 tickets (32%)— were made available to average ordinary fans. The vast majority had already been earmarked for insiders, presales, fanclub members and members of the band.

While fans are largely left in the dark about ticket distribution (can you see why), the majority of tickets are allocated to the artists, talent agencies, record labels, tour sponsors and fan clubs, according to the Fan Freedom Project, a Washington DC-based coalition backed by secondary market seller StubHub.

cruizer101

Also to add another aspect to it, by restricting the resale of tickets you deny someone the ability to pay how much they want for whatever it is they want.

Take Alice, she is a die hard Adele fan. She works a minimum wage job but puts away 20 euro every month in the hope of seeing Adele live in concert sometime, she goes without other things like Netflix and nights out because she really wants to see Adele.
Adele announces a tour, tickets will retail for 100. Alice has saved up 400 and is more than happy to pay that much to go see Adele, maybe that is more than most would pay to go see Adele but Alice is a f**king fiend for Adele and is more than happy to pay it.
Tickets go on sale but due to the way tickets are sold Alice doesn't get a ticket. This isn't because of touts, there are 10,000 tickets available and 100,000 happy to pay the 100 to go see Adele, you have a 1 in 10 chance of getting a ticket because of how the Agent chooses to sell those tickets, its a lottery.
Alice misses out but not to worry, she would have liked to pay 100 but is more than happy to pay up to 400.
Someone who got a ticket decides to sell it for 200, it is more than the retail price but far less than what Alice was willing to pay, great she can buy a ticket for less than she personally thinks it is worth and go see Adele.

Oh wait, the government has introduced legislation to stop above retail price selling of tickets, now no-one is willing to sell Alice a ticket and she can't go to the concert, even though she is willing to pay a premium to go.
Alice the die hard fan cannot go to the concert despite her valuing it far more than many of those that get to go, she would have paid more, she saved up for so long, but she can't because it is a lottery who gets tickets.

In what other market are the highest bidders not allowed to buy what they want despite the fact that they value something higher and are willing to make sacrifices in other area to pay for what they really want.
Instead tickets are allocated by a lottery.
Is it not fairer that those who value the tickets the most and are willing to pay the most for them get to go, that seems the fairest to me.

Edit to add: I'm not promoting touting btw but if agents are unwilling to sell tickets at their market value I think it is a better option than the government legislating against it, legislating against the free market, legislating against people spending their hard earned money how they choose, who is the government to say Alice can't work hard save up and buy something she really wants with her own money

I'm really enjoying the ticket touts thread.

joseywhales

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm really enjoying the ticket touts thread.

clever

cnocbui

cruizer101 wrote: »

I'm not defending them, I don't agree with what they are doing.

However I don't think it is an issue that requires government legislation.
If the tickets were sold at their market value by the agents then ticket touting would not be an issue.
The problem is agents sell them at a huge discount to their market value.

If anyone sells a product at well below market value people will try and make a profit from it.

I don't think the government should legislate against the free market.

I think ticket touts should be tossed head first into an industrial scale meat grinder and the mince dumped out at sea.

FileNotFound

cruizer101 wrote: »

Also to add another aspect to it, by restricting the resale of tickets you deny someone the ability to pay how much they want for whatever it is they want.

Take Alice, she is a die hard Adele fan. She works a minimum wage job but puts away 20 euro every month in the hope of seeing Adele live in concert sometime, she goes without other things like Netflix and nights out because she really wants to see Adele.
Adele announces a tour, tickets will retail for 100. Alice has saved up 400 and is more than happy to pay that much to go see Adele, maybe that is more than most would pay to go see Adele but Alice is a f**king fiend for Adele and is more than happy to pay it.
Tickets go on sale but due to the way tickets are sold Alice doesn't get a ticket. This isn't because of touts, there are 10,000 tickets available and 100,000 happy to pay the 100 to go see Adele, you have a 1 in 10 chance of getting a ticket because of how the Agent chooses to sell those tickets, its a lottery.
Alice misses out but not to worry, she would have liked to pay 100 but is more than happy to pay up to 400.
Someone who got a ticket decides to sell it for 200, it is more than the retail price but far less than what Alice was willing to pay, great she can buy a ticket for less than she personally thinks it is worth and go see Adele.

Oh wait, the government has introduced legislation to stop above retail price selling of tickets, now no-one is willing to sell Alice a ticket and she can't go to the concert, even though she is willing to pay a premium to go.
Alice the die hard fan cannot go to the concert despite her valuing it far more than many of those that get to go, she would have paid more, she saved up for so long, but she can't because it is a lottery who gets tickets.

In what other market are the highest bidders not allowed to buy what they want despite the fact that they value something higher and are willing to make sacrifices in other area to pay for what they really want.
Instead tickets are allocated by a lottery.
Is it not fairer that those who value the tickets the most and are willing to pay the most for them get to go, that seems the fairest to me.

Edit to add: I'm not promoting touting btw but if agents are unwilling to sell tickets at their market value I think it is a better option than the government legislating against it, legislating against the free market, legislating against people spending their hard earned money how they choose, who is the government to say Alice can't work hard save up and buy something she really wants with her own money

You gave me a good chuckle reading this support of dodgey tout like dealing.

I guess my argument is that without touts tickets stay on sale for longer and end up going to genuine fans at a more affordable price.

This concept of MCD selling discounted tickets is a weird as can be standpoint for any mind. If anything all concert tickets in ireland are overpriced based on other EU nations. Especially NL where toutings been made illegal for all intents.

So I'm in full support of finally destroying this money avenue. Next is the rare spirits - though thats a pipe dream and hopefully more sensible heads can prevail long term.

Anyway all these arguments supporting the toutes are redundant - CAB review made the gov go the legal route, end seatwave and soon to be more.

FileNotFound

cnocbui wrote: »

I think ticket touts should be tossed head first into an industrial scale meat grinder and the mince dumped out at sea.

That rancid meat wouldnt even be safe for fish food.

Happy to see an end to to this. No need for toutes anymore, let them live in some romantic memory from the past.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It isn't capitalism. They haven't set up a business, spotted a gap in the market, profited from it, and paid tax on those profits.

They are the equivalent of setting up a road block on the way to a mart, buying all the cows, and then going to the mart and saying "This is capitalism folks. The price is up 200%."

Analogies are needed to explain how absurd it is to believe they have a legitimate business.

But that is capitalism. The market regulates the price apparently. If people don't buy from tours they go out of business. So the logic goes....

As I said, I don't believe in it. But why do people object in this narrow area and not anywhere else.

FileNotFound

Brian? wrote: »

But that is capitalism

Would it be accurate to say that this is an example of uncontrolled capitalism.


And since we have controls on capitalism in Ireland, then we are really just bringing this touting nonsense in line with our morals.

Brian?

FileNotFound wrote: »

Would it be accurate to say that this is an example of uncontrolled capitalism.


And since we have controls on capitalism in Ireland, then we are really just bringing this touting nonsense in line with our morals.

Yep.

But my point stands. Why are people who are so pro capitalism normally, so anti ticket touting? They should be celebrating their entrepreneurial spirit.

In Soviet Russia ticket touts sell you tickets when you don't want them..

FileNotFound

Brian? wrote: »

Yep.

But my point stands. Why are people who are so pro capitalism normally, so anti ticket touting? They should be celebrating their entrepreneurial spirit.

Well nobody has ever loved Toutes, but in recent years with bot abuse and seatwave it became far too prevalent and in everyones face.

Personally I just feel its now a case of the tout is unnessecary - they add no value to society at all. The product will be on sale and resale without them.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

Yep.

But my point stands. Why are people who are so pro capitalism normally, so anti ticket touting? They should be celebrating their entrepreneurial spirit.

We are pro capitalism when businesses buy goods at wholesale prices and sell them to us at retail prices. We are anti scalping where people buy goods at retail prices faster than a regular person could, and then sell those goods on at a higher price.

Iscreamkone

So Munster are playing a Champions Cup final in Cardiff/anywhere. They haven't been in a final for years.
Some supporters are willing to pay well over the odds for a ticket - No that's not allowed.
But it's okay for hotels and Ryanair to rape the same supporters on the same weekend.
What's the difference?

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We are pro capitalism when businesses buy goods at wholesale prices and sell them to us at retail prices. We are anti scalping where people buy goods at retail prices faster than a regular person could, and then sell those goods on at a higher price.

Literally every retailer does exactly the same thing. They buy stuff cheaper from suppliers and sell to you at a higher margin.

Why is it so egregious that it’s done with tickets? If it’s so bad shouldn’t the market regulate itself by pushing them out of business?

Brian?

FileNotFound wrote: »

Well nobody has ever loved Toutes, but in recent years with bot abuse and seatwave it became far too prevalent and in everyones face.

Personally I just feel its now a case of the tout is unnessecary - they add no value to society at all. The product will be on sale and resale without them.

So if they are unnecessary why does the free market self regulate by eliminating them?

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We are pro capitalism when businesses buy goods at wholesale prices and sell them to us at retail prices. We are anti scalping where people buy goods at retail prices faster than a regular person could, and then sell those goods on at a higher price.

Especially bad problem in electronics with GPUs and crypto mining. Outfits that eat up crypto mining cards continue to get more money to bloat the whole enterprise as well as being able to use that computing power to sweep up cards online systematically within moments of a products release for sale.

Ah well, it was a good thread while it lasted...

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah well, it was a good thread while it lasted...

That’s definitely an unpopular opinion alright.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Especially bad problem in electronics with GPUs and crypto mining. Outfits that eat up crypto mining cards continue to get more money to bloat the whole enterprise as well as being able to use that computing power to sweep up cards online systematically within moments of a products release for sale.

Cryptocurrency is sociopathy in computing form.

Mike Murdock

Deleted User wrote: »

Cryptocurrency is sociopathy in computing form.

Mike Murdock

Deleted User wrote: »

Cryptocurrency is sociopathy in computing form.

Overheal

Mike Murdock wrote: »

Are doing unpopular gifs now

Edit:

…

Mise en place, and taco Tuesday, are barely distinguishable.

ohnonotgmail

Overheal wrote: »

Are doing unpopular gifs now

Edit:

…

Mise en place, and taco Tuesday, are barely distinguishable.

I am aware of Taco Tuesday and I know what mise en place means but I have no idea what this post means.

JimmyVik

If it wasnt for the touts I wouldnt have got the the few all-irelands i went to see.

FileNotFound

JimmyVik wrote: »

If it wasnt for the touts I wouldnt have got the the few all-irelands i went to see.

Just a big day fan so?

Ollie Cromwell

castletownman wrote: »

I think Boris Johnson has been an excellent PM so far, the best since Blair. And has a clarity that mocks the bumbling eejit persona he is painted.

And I also think he is a sound devil.

In fact, he is miles better than any of our senior politicians.

I agree.
A flawed diamond geezer.
With poll ratings Mehole and Varadkar would stab each other in the front for.
He does exactly what it says on the tin.
Brexit-hating Boris-bashers in the Irish media like Fintan O'Toole must cry themselves to sleep every night.

JimmyVik

FileNotFound wrote: »

Just a big day fan so?

I am indeed.
I like to go to a football or hurling final.
Most of the dross that comes before it though I can skip.
So id rather buy a ticket off a tout or the local club tout for the all-ireland that suffer through the rest of the year of the GAA. Thats like a penance you do to get your ticket for the big games. I'll stick to the one and done myself thankyou



Which brings me to another unpopular opinion.
Until you get to the very late stages, GAA matches are mostly bore fests and one sided. You get the odd exception, but its rare.

partyguinness

Ollie Cromwell wrote: »

I agree.
A flawed diamond geezer.
With poll ratings Mehole and Varadkar would stab each other in the front for.
He does exactly what it says on the tin.
Brexit-hating Boris-bashers in the Irish media like Fintan O'Toole must cry themselves to sleep every night.

BJ is a classic bull****ter completely devoid of any ideology or moral compass. He just wants to be everyone's friend or "chum". Hates hard decisions and just goes with the most popular. A serial liar and cheater- and not very good at it but yet gets away with it.

Brexit was classic. He was actually still deciding whether to fall under pro or remain up to the last moment as he wanted to see where public opinion was at. In other words he had no firm positon like he has no firm position on anything. An empty vessel.

The perfect PM and a perfect reflection of the UK.