Shift work and working nights

lufties

Hi all,

As someone who's been working nights on and off for the past 13 years (Aviation worker). I've come to the conclusion that it is slowly destroying me. For years I blamed my problems on various things, but I know realise that shift work is at the core. Unsocial working times, messed up sleep patterns, how can you possibly be happy? Shift work has consistently left me depressed, anxious, fatigued, lonely, and disconnected. The problem us that the media will be reluctant to address this, as it's bad for businesses.

On a side note, I've researched the pineal gland (seat of the soul in ancient mysticism), which is responsible for secreting melatonin for circadian rhythm. When you are constantly going against nature, how can you possibly be normal? Anyway, luckily for the past year I've been trying to get off shift work, and fingers crossed soon I'll get a mon-fri job.

Just wondered if anyone else feels the effects of shift work like I do? It's one of these subjects nobody really talks about in mainstream society.

EverythingGood

No shift work per say, as my job was 9-5 but I commuted from rural Wexford to Dublin every day for 6 years, and as such got up at 4.30 for the 5.15 bus and didn't get home til after 7.00pm. Was so horrible, left me depressed, anxious, sad, uncommunicative, grumpy etc. Changed jobs, work local now, less money but such a benefit to my own health and my work/life balance, as well as much better for family life.

lufties

EverythingGood wrote: »

No shift work per say, as my job was 9-5 but I commuted from rural Wexford to Dublin every day for 6 years, and as such got up at 4.30 for the 5.15 bus and didn't get home til after 7.00pm. Was so horrible, left me depressed, anxious, sad, uncommunicative, grumpy etc. Changed jobs, work local now, less money but such a benefit to my own health and my work/life balance, as well as much better for family life.

That's the other extreme, long commute to dublin, stuck in traffic etc. I live in north of England and my work commute is max 30mins.
I lived in dublin for 3 years and eventually got tired of it. Same as any other big city, fun when you are younger. Glad to hear you found a better quality of life

vasch_ro

Its very tough on the body and only gets harder the older you get.
As you say your going totally against the bodies natural cycles.

seamus

I'm not sure if the media are reluctant to address it so much as it doesn't affect the majority of workers but also that it's a "necessary evil" kind of thing.

We know from countless studies that night work is bad for your health in general and those who do it long term are more likely to have a plethora of physical and mental health problems.
But we can't make it go away. We can't close the hospitals at 12pm or leave the streets unpatrolled from midnight to 6am.

Perhaps though we should be looking legislation to balance it. While a "night bonus" might work, it's easy for employers to game that system and make your base wage lower to compensate.
Perhaps work done between 12pm and 8am should accrue annual leave at twice the normal rate. And perhaps employers should be obliged to structure their shift patterns such that nobody ever works more than four hours dring this time. That is your 12-hour shift is 4pm to 4am, your 8-hour is 8pm-4am, 4-12 & 12-8.

At least then in that scenario everyone can get some level of nightime sleep, even if it is only 4/5 hours.

lufties

vasch_ro wrote: »

Its very tough on the body and only gets harder the older you get.
As you say your going totally against the bodies natural cycles.

Agreed, I'm 37, and the past year has been incredibly hard. The worse you feel, the harder it is to be social.

This really needs to be discussed more in mainstream society.

lufties

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure if the media are reluctant to address it so much as it doesn't affect the majority of workers but also that it's a "necessary evil" kind of thing.

We know from countless studies that night work is bad for your health in general and those who do it long term are more likely to have a plethora of physical and mental health problems.
But we can't make it go away. We can't close the hospitals at 12pm or leave the streets unpatrolled from midnight to 6am.

Perhaps though we should be looking legislation to balance it. While a "night bonus" might work, it's easy for employers to game that system and make your base wage lower to compensate.
Perhaps work done between 12pm and 8am should accrue annual leave at twice the normal rate. And perhaps employers should be obliged to structure their shift patterns such that nobody ever works more than four hours dring this time. That is your 12-hour shift is 4pm to 4am, your 8-hour is 8pm-4am, 4-12 & 12-8.

At least then in that scenario everyone can get some level of nightime sleep, even if it is only 4/5 hours.

Good post. If the media addressed then there would be a huge shortage in people willing to work shift.

I'm coming from the view of an aircraft technician, running around changing wheels/brakes, problem solving on you feet at 4am. I'm physically and mentally exhausted at the end of a shift. Add the fact that I sleep for about 4 hours during the day also.

There is already a shortage of aircraft technicians, and companies wonder why. In my opinion there is a plethora of reasons, one being night work. However that's another topic altogether.

I've worked for British airways in the past, and the nightshift compensation was about 7k per year. Realistically it should be 20k imo. However, they have you by the short and curlies, as Aircraft technician work inherently involves night work anyway. So theres little or no getting away from it if your in this profession.

I'm not having a moan, so much as a Frank discussion. Working nights has led me to bad places, and led me to some unhealthy habits

_Brian

lufties wrote: »

Hi all,

As someone who's been working nights on and off for the past 13 years (Aviation worker). I've come to the conclusion that it is slowly destroying me. For years I blamed my problems on various things, but I know realise that shift work is at the core. Unsocial working times, messed up sleep patterns, how can you possibly be happy? Shift work has consistently left me depressed, anxious, fatigued, lonely, and disconnected. The problem us that the media will be reluctant to address this, as it's bad for businesses.

On a side note, I've researched the pineal gland (seat of the soul in ancient mysticism), which is responsible for secreting melatonin for circadian rhythm. When you are constantly going against nature, how can you possibly be normal? Anyway, luckily for the past year I've been trying to get off shift work, and fingers crossed soon I'll get a mon-fri job.

Just wondered if anyone else feels the effects of shift work like I do? It's one of these subjects nobody really talks about in mainstream society.

I did it for 13 years and it took a serious toll on my health which although I left it 10 years ago still affects me to this day.

All I can say is get out as soon as is possible. I’m earning 50% of what I did but my health as recovered considerably. As has the quality of my social and family life.

lufties

_Brian wrote: »

I did it for 13 years and it took a serious toll on my health which although I left it 10 years ago still affects me to this day.

All I can say is get out as soon as is possible. I’m earning 50% of what I did but my health as recovered considerably.

Really? With regard to sleep pattern?

blackbox

I used to work two shifts for many years and it suited me ok. Obviously not for everyone, but I loved being off during the day every second week and also the extra money (shift allowance).
I learned to be a very good sleeper. I can still sleep anywhere.
I don't agree with very long shifts as worked by medical staff. It has to reduce performance and is therefore unsafe. I would limit it to 10 hours max.

_Brian

lufties wrote: »

Really? With regard to sleep pattern?

That and more.
It affects physical and mental health alike.

lufties

_Brian wrote: »

That and more.
It affects physical and mental health alike.

I reckon the body and mind should be able to recover fully with the right approach. Sorry to hear you've not fully recovered after such a long period off nights.

caff

I did it for 5 years changed each week 6-13 / 7-14 / 9-17 / 17-1 / 00-6
It was the overnights that really wrecked me, the week of them was fine it was switching back the next week that left me a zombie.
The best thing I found to help was to be very strict about mealtimes for each shift to try and get my body to stay in sync with switching. Still though I found myself almost feeling drunk at times and my mind a mess.
Some people appear to cope with it fine but it didn't work for me at all and I had to switch to a normal day time job.

lufties

blackbox wrote: »

I used to work two shifts for many years and it suited me ok. Obviously not for everyone, but I loved being off during the day every second week and also the extra money (shift allowance).
I learned to be a very good sleeper. I can still sleep anywhere.

I guess everyone is different too.

XsApollo

Worked 3 cycle and also 2 cycle with 12 hour nights.
Night shift is a soul destroyer, no matter how many years your at it, you will never get used to it.
I think the longer it went on the worse it got.

Came off shift years ago and onto straight days and the difference is night and day literally.

Now I dunno if a straight night shift would be any better or was it the rotation of shifts.
But the memories of looking at the clock and it saying 4.30am fills me with dread.

lufties

caff wrote: »

I did it for 5 years changed each week 6-13 / 7-14 / 9-17 / 17-1 / 00-6
It was the overnights that really wrecked me, the week of them was fine it was switching back the next week that left me a zombie.
The best thing I found to help was to be very strict about mealtimes for each shift to try and get my body to stay in sync with switching. Still though I found myself almost feeling drunk at times and my mind a mess.
Some people appear to cope with it fine but it didn't work for me at all and I had to switch to a normal day time job.

Yeah, I use to be able to do it reasonably ok. Now its become hardly bearable.

lufties

XsApollo wrote: »

Worked 3 cycle and also 2 cycle with 12 hour nights.
Night shift is a soul destroyer, no matter how many years your at it, you will never get used to it.
I think the longer it went on the worse it got.

Came off shift years ago and onto straight days and the difference is night and day literally.

Now I dunno if a straight night shift would be any better or was it the rotation of shifts.
But the memories of looking at the clock and it saying 4.30am fills me with dread.

As I mentioned earlier, regarding the pineal gland in the brain, it is literally soul destroying.

I think science hasn't caught up with the true effects yet.

nervous_twitch

I am one of those lucky folk who very rarely ever gets sick - or I was, until I started working nights. For the first couple of decades of my life, I rarely caught the colds that were going around, hadn't once got the flu and I knew I had a pretty robust immune system. Once I began night shifts, all that went away. Constantly run down, regularly getting ill, general change in mood.

I know all that's just anecdotal but I am in complete agreement OP. The circadian rhythm is there for a reason. Even just the lack of vitamin D would cause issues. Unfortunately, as someone else pointed out, it's a necessary evil.

Quick edit just to add that I only did it for a year or two and when I went back to normal hours my overall health improved, to the point that I'm as I was before.

ush

I work day and night shifts. Two weeks day, then two weeks night. 07-19 and 19-07.

The night shifts are fine. Its switching back to day that kills me.

lasalle

I have the opposite choice to mull over, day shift short commute (15-20mins) atm, offered a new position involving night shift plus longer commute but considerably higher salary (30% increase) badly need the salary hike but reading posts on this, makes a decision less straight forward

Strumms

I was put on nights against my will and my health and wellbeing suffered big time. My sleeping was all over the gaff and my health deteriorated big time. Eventually a situation arose where I could get off nights, dropped a load of shift pay but did it in a heartbeat.

You could be paying me literally 100,000 a year to do nights but I’d never do it again. Gladly take half that pay or less in fact to have my health, wellbeing, social life and the energy to enjoy life..

73bc61lyohr0mu

I was working nights driving a van. I would drive from Limerick to Dublin and back every night. It nearly killed me. Literally. I fell asleep behind the wheel on the motorway due to sheer exhaustion and crashed into the crash barrier. I left the job soon after that..

XsApollo

lasalle wrote: »

I have the opposite choice to mull over, day shift short commute (15-20mins) atm, offered a new position involving night shift plus longer commute but considerably higher salary (30% increase) badly need the salary hike but reading posts on this, makes a decision less straight forward

30% increase in total or 30% increase on your salary and your shift on top of it?
Usually you get 25% increase as a shift allowance so you might not be getting a hike in base salary.
A long commute after nights?

Also I found I burned through money on nights. playing poker for cash, magazines and newspapers every night , mini playstations, anything to get through the burn of working that night.
Take aways also were a killer, my diet went to ****, couldn’t be assed cooking wether it be during work or when I got up.

I only saying last week as there was talks of the factories shift changing back to a 3 cycle instead of a 4,3,3 that if I got 15k extra a year I wouldn’t take it to work them again.

lasalle

30% total increase, shift allowance is 20% of that, 5 on , 5 off, 12hr shifts

XsApollo

Also take into consideration if you have a family.
Trying to sleep after school when everybody is at the height of their powers can be frustrating for yourself but also for others when the constant keep quiet you dad is sleeping is going on.
Saturday’s after a Friday night are pretty much a no go for you , also Sunday you won’t be feeling the best either depending how you sleep which mightent happen if you fancying a lie in and the rest of world is moving around you.


Taking a night shift job is not something I would recommend unless you have done it before and have experience of yourself and how you would handle it or your single and willing to try.

I have watched people leave after a few weeks and people turn to dogs when working nights.

scudzilla

I've been on nights now for 13yrs, my shift pattern is 4 13hr shifts one week, 3 the next. Have a rolling roster of 3 on, 1 off 3 on then 3 off, 1 on, 3 off.

My boss is sound and if i ask for the 1 on i work off he gives it me so i have 7 off.

I love working nights, main benefit is there's less idiots around :pac::pac:

I get paid extremely well and the company are very good, Nights suits me at the moment but am looking at a M-F Promotion within the next 18months.

Nights is all about routine, i finish at 07:00, home by around 07:30, stay up with wife and child until they head off at 08:50, bed by 9 and i'll sleep like a baby until 4.

Hardest part of nights is the timing of sleep on your first day off. I'll still go to bed around 08:50 but get up at 3pm, try not to nap on the sofa and come 22:30 i'll be completely bolloxed and will sleep through til 8am. IF i don't time it right i'll be wide awake at 2am looking for me dinner

johnnyryan89

ush wrote: »

I work day and night shifts. Two weeks day, then two weeks night. 07-19 and 19-07.

The night shifts are fine. Its switching back to day that kills me.

Have a similar schedule of 07-19 or 19-07 but lucky that I've worked nights mostly and the odd days I have worked would be nights Mon, Tues, Wed and back in for a day shift on the weekend. Some lads will get saddled with days and nights in the same week and there's nothing worse than when you work say a Thursday and have to be back in for Saturday morning.

limerick17

I've been working nights for the past two years in factories etc and the effect it has had on my well being is enormous.

Never want to do anything, constantly run down and miserable, basically a shell of the person I was before starting nights.
It also has an effect on relationships etc as your always narky.

Basically in my opinion it is not worth all the money in the world as your health is more important.

The only time I think it's worth it is for someone young looking to save up for a year or two but in the long run it will wreck you.

thomasdylan

I pretty sure there's a fair bit of research showing people who work shifts and nights have higher blood pressure, are more likely to develop diabetes and have heart attacks and strokes.

My dad worked rotating shifts for years and hated it. I was doing 24 and 36 hour call shifts very regularly up until recently (and still do three of four a month) and I'd always feel like I was running at 80% even days later. I used to try and bring healthy food and only drink water as I felt eating out of vending machines and prepacked sandwiches contributed to how **** I was feeling.

I always feel sorry for nurses, a good proportion of them are alternating between nights and days every few weeks.

lufties

limerick17 wrote: »

I've been working nights for the past two years in factories etc and the effect it has had on my well being is enormous.

Never want to do anything, constantly run down and miserable, basically a shell of the person I was before starting nights.
It also has an effect on relationships etc as your always narky.

Basically in my opinion it is not worth all the money in the world as your health is more important.

The only time I think it's worth it is for someone young looking to save up for a year or two but in the long run it will wreck you.

Yep exactly, I'm 37 and single, no kids, not many friends. Not entirely blaming working shift, but prob the cause of 75% of my problems.

antiskeptic

lufties wrote: »

Good post. If the media addressed then there would be a huge shortage in people willing to work shift.

I'm coming from the view of an aircraft technician, running around changing wheels/brakes, problem solving on you feet at 4am. I'm physically and mentally exhausted at the end of a shift. Add the fact that I sleep for about 4 hours during the day also.

There is already a shortage of aircraft technicians, and companies wonder why. In my opinion there is a plethora of reasons, one being night work. However that's another topic altogether.

I've worked for British airways in the past, and the nightshift compensation was about 7k per year. Realistically it should be 20k imo. However, they have you by the short and curlies, as Aircraft technician work inherently involves night work anyway. So theres little or no getting away from it if your in this profession.

I'm not having a moan, so much as a Frank discussion. Working nights has led me to bad places, and led me to some unhealthy habits

What is the benefit of a 24/7 economy? The argument is, the economy. I mean, it makes business sense to run an expensive production line 24/7 than leave it idle and depreciating.

The actual result? Well we've very sophistcated cars, McDonalds Happy Meal toys, flat screen plasma tv's, bottled water and an endless plethora of equally necesssary stuff to make us happy.

I've often thought the trick of getting women on the career path was Capitalisms greatest recent coup. It now takes two wage earners to buy a house and raise a family where it previously took just one. It isn't an argument about who stays at home, its that no one stays at home.

What a lovely societal experiment that is, replacing a millenial long model of children in the embrace of family and community to one in which their formative years are spent in industrial creches (a.k.a. hatchery grow houses - a place where chicks are raised for the processing line)