Landlord declared bankruptcy - what happens nu?

bo0li5eumx12kp

Dav010 wrote: »

The penny has just dropped, you are trolling.

Just in case you aren’t, why would they talk man to man? And why would you have a say in the matter? You are not the property owner.

I mostly certainly am not!

I just have a natural kind of troll'esque personality in general.
I find it keeps even the most serious situation on a relatively even keel.

But no - I am absolutely serious.

Would it help if I posted a copy of the letter? (I'll blot out the contacts etc).

daheff

Dav010 wrote: »

Would you be concerned that you would be served with a notice of rent arrears and then notice to terminate? It certainly would be quicker to remove a tenant in that way.

no. i think any reasonable judge would look favourably on a tenant in this situation. Look at it from the tenants pov. How does tenant know the papers sent are valid? Could be a scam artist.

But by the same score the tenant doesnt want to be paying rent to somebody who us not the landlord and might not pay back the money.

The person(s) purporting to be the new owners should be able to provide reasonable proof quite quickly to prove their ownership...and register the tenancy with the rtb for validation.

Dav010

daheff wrote: »

no. i think any reasonable judge would look favourably on a tenant in this situation. Look at it from the tenants pov. How does tenant know the papers sent are valid? Could be a scam artist.

But by the same score the tenant doesnt want to be paying rent to somebody who us not the landlord and might not pay back the money.

The person(s) purporting to be the new owners should be able to provide reasonable proof quite quickly to prove their ownership...and register the tenancy with the rtb for validation.

I would suspect most reasonable people would be expected to contact the letting agent and the Landlord to confirm the validity of the letter. The op can contact the RTB for clarification, but non payment of rent is a grounds for eviction, though you may be right, it’s a risk.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/contact-us/

bo0li5eumx12kp

Dav010 wrote: »

I would suspect most reasonable people would be expected to contact the letting agent and the Landlord to confirm the validity of the letter. The op can contact the RTB for clarification, but non payment of rent is a grounds for eviction, though you may be right, it’s a risk.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/contact-us/

I know I'm repetitive at this point - but this is pivitol.

As to your former statement - part 4 VS a term lease.

Does that still stand?

The creditor could boot me if I only have part 4?

But if I have a term lease - I'm good for that term, whether they intend to sell or no?

Wesser

Iker Thundering Sender wrote: »

Based on?

Not necessarily second guessing that opinion but - being pedantic about information basis - you advise this course of action because....?

I mean I'm gonna have to clarify with the former owners that they're not longer gonna be receiving rent from me at least.

based on the fact that thete is nothing you can do.to alter the course if proceedings,assuming that proceedings are legal... and also.if you cause a fuss which it seems like you are determined to do you will likely just annoy people.

overkill602

think you missed some good sports around the time trolling here knock your self out or get a life

bo0li5eumx12kp

Wesser wrote: »

based on the fact that thete is nothing you can do.to alter the course if proceedings,assuming that proceedings are legal... and also.if you cause a fuss which it seems like you are determined to do you will likely just annoy people.

Nothing I can do?

I was offered a second term lease upon the expiration of the first one - which I did not take up - mostly out of disregard - but my understanding is now, if I did take this up, the current flop-sweat panic would not be an issue.

Correct?

So - naturally the first thing I should try and do is secure the term lease I was offered a couple months ago.

No?

Wesser

no i dont think that having a written lease at this stage protects you from a change in rent or a notice if eviction. my understanding is that it can happen with or without that piece if paper. 2 other posters on page 1 agree with me. so my advice is to lie low , dont attract any attention to yourself and try to not mark yourself as a difficult tenant. thats my advice. im gonna leave it at that.

Dav010

Wesser wrote: »

no i dont think that having a written lease at this stage protects you from a change in rent or a notice if eviction. my understanding is that it can happen with or without that piece if paper. 2 other posters on page 1 agree with me. so my advice is to lie low , dont attract any attention to yourself and try to not mark yourself as a difficult tenant. thats my advice. im gonna leave it at that.

Actually if he had a term lease, the rent could not be changed, nor could the op be evicted until after expiration of the term. But he does not have a lease, and the chances of getting a back dated one are slim to none.

dennyk

Iker Thundering Sender wrote: »

Nothing I can do?

I was offered a second term lease upon the expiration of the first one - which I did not take up - mostly out of disregard - but my understanding is now, if I did take this up, the current flop-sweat panic would not be an issue.

Correct?

So - naturally the first thing I should try and do is secure the term lease I was offered a couple months ago.

No?

If you have a fixed term lease, it cannot be terminated before the end of the lease period even for the reasons allowed by the Part 4 regulations, such as because the owner intends to sell the property. So yes, if you want to ensure greater security of tenure, you can ask your landlord or their agent if they will enter into a new fixed term lease with you. However, they are not obligated to do so, and if the current owner is planning to sell the property, they will almost certainly refuse.

As for the rest of it, no one here is privy to what's going on with your property and no one here can tell you what will happen. If it is a co-ownership situation and one of the owners defaulted on a debt secured via a lien on the property, it may be possible for the creditor to force a sale even against the other owner's wishes. The other owner might have the option of paying off the debt themselves to prevent that from happening, but they may not have the means to do so. It will all depend on the details of the loan agreement and applicable Irish law.

The upshot is that the owner(s) of the property can choose to sell at any time and if they do so, then they can give you notice to terminate your tenancy, but no one here can tell you if that will happen or not. Your best bet is to verify that the letter you received is valid and correct and then continue paying your normal rent amount until such time as you receive a notice of a rent review or a notice of termination.

daheff

Dav010 wrote: »

I would suspect most reasonable people would be expected to contact the letting agent and the Landlord to confirm the validity of the letter. l]

I might have missed a point about there being a letting agent involved. Absolutely contact them, in writing, to confirm validity of letter.

Contact landlord for sure, but what if the landlord (incorrectly)says the letter is fake and you pay a few more months rent to him? He’s bankrupt, so that money just goes off his overdraft. Good luck getting that back off the bank.

It’s a messy situation to be involved in.

bo0li5eumx12kp

dennyk wrote: »

If you have a fixed term lease, it cannot be terminated before the end of the lease period even for the reasons allowed by the Part 4 regulations, such as because the owner intends to sell the property. So yes, if you want to ensure greater security of tenure, you can ask your landlord or their agent if they will enter into a new fixed term lease with you. However, they are not obligated to do so, and if the current owner is planning to sell the property, they will almost certainly refuse.

As for the rest of it, no one here is privy to what's going on with your property and no one here can tell you what will happen. If it is a co-ownership situation and one of the owners defaulted on a debt secured via a lien on the property, it may be possible for the creditor to force a sale even against the other owner's wishes. The other owner might have the option of paying off the debt themselves to prevent that from happening, but they may not have the means to do so. It will all depend on the details of the loan agreement and applicable Irish law.

The upshot is that the owner(s) of the property can choose to sell at any time and if they do so, then they can give you notice to terminate your tenancy, but no one here can tell you if that will happen or not. Your best bet is to verify that the letter you received is valid and correct and then continue paying your normal rent amount to the appropriate party until such time as you receive a notice of a rent review or a notice of termination.

Thank you sir.

Just on the final point - if the owners do decide to sell, just lets say hypothetically I had a term tenancy agreement, outside of part 4 - could they still "over ride" this, via their wish to sell?

Or would they have to postpone the sale until such a time as that term tenancy agreement has ended?


What I'm trying to figure out is - pushing for a re-upped term tenancy agreement, in the case that can be negated by owners wish to sell, well - there'd be no point in doing that cause the owner can "over ride" it anyways.

But is that the case?

bo0li5eumx12kp

daheff wrote: »

I might have missed a point about there being a letting agent involved. Absolutely contact them, in writing, to confirm validity of letter.

Contact landlord for sure, but what if the landlord (incorrectly)says the letter is fake and you pay a few more months rent to him? He’s bankrupt, so that money just goes off his overdraft. Good luck getting that back off the bank.

It’s a messy situation to be involved in.

lol - hold up hold up.

The letter arrived in a government type envelop (harp on the front).

It has formal looking documentation, requesting my tenancy agreement, in addition to providing detailed contacts for the new leasing agent/(creditors?), and the bank details I should use.

The fact that ya'll are even asking - you mean to tell me, it could be like - a scam?

As in, some crawler has fabricated these documents, somehow knows my particulars, and is trying to redirect my payments?


I should mention - the bankruptcy was supposedly declared three weeks ago.

I did not hear from the owner in regards to this but - naturally I assumed they have bigger issues to now deal with so, I guess that's understandable?

bo0li5eumx12kp

Great success.

Some dude from the RTB who obviously works Sundays, got back to my e-mail query, and basically the situation is yes - if I had a lease (which I no longer do), I'd be entitled to stay for its duration.

However, as I am longer than 12 months here - he mentioned the minimum notice they must serve me as to a sale is, 120 days.

That's like, 4 months?

Certainly takes the pressure off.

I haven't got a notice of termination (yet).

Dammit - honestly I'm kicking myself for not re-upping that lease.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Hmm, maybe not so great success.

I contacted Threshold and, apparently a bank initiated court order to sell the property, assuming that would be outcome here - would in fact over ride any "staying" power a term lease would have.

In other words - they in control.

I don't know the situation on the 120 day notice period - remains to be seen.

But yeah - info I've got so far is, if I had a term lease or no - they can still turf me out.

lol.

Gerianam

You could always "bust ass" back to Kentucky.

dancingqueen

Iker Thundering Sender wrote: »

Nothing I can do?

I was offered a second term lease upon the expiration of the first one - which I did not take up - mostly out of disregard - but my understanding is now, if I did take this up, the current flop-sweat panic would not be an issue.

Correct?

So - naturally the first thing I should try and do is secure the term lease I was offered a couple months ago.

No?

Are you referring to a "fixed term lease" ?

bo0li5eumx12kp

dancingqueen wrote: »

Are you referring to a "fixed term lease" ?

Correct.

Fian

Did your landlord declare bankruptcy or did they only say it?

Sorry but I may never again get as good an opportunity to make that office reference.

Long and short your legal rights under the lease are not affected. However terminating a lease for the purposes of sale, outside a fixed term lease which prohibits that, is something that your landlord could always have done, and that power is now exercisable by the receiver.

Unfortunately the receiver is far more likely to want to do that than your previous landlord.

You remain entitled to the statutory notice period. You can't be evicted without the notice you are entitled to, even if there were a court order to sell the property.

IAmTheReign

Iker Thundering Sender wrote: »

Great success.

Some dude from the RTB who obviously works Sundays, got back to my e-mail query, and basically the situation is yes - if I had a lease (which I no longer do), I'd be entitled to stay for its duration.

However, as I am longer than 12 months here - he mentioned the minimum notice they must serve me as to a sale is, 120 days.

That's like, 4 months?

Certainly takes the pressure off.

I haven't got a notice of termination (yet).

Dammit - honestly I'm kicking myself for not re-upping that lease.

Hang on, you said in your very first post you'd only been there 6 months?

Iker Thundering Sender wrote:

Dude before me was renting this place for like 10 years - then all of a sudden I'm here 6 months, and I get this letter saying title of the property has been foreclosed to some third party by way of bankrupt asset seizure.

bo0li5eumx12kp

IAmTheReign wrote: »

Hang on, you said in your very first post you'd only been there 6 months?

Pffff - don't focus on the wrong part of the story.

Just assume as to the details, I'm here longer than 12 months.

Dav010

Iker Thundering Sender wrote: »

Pffff - don't focus on the wrong part of the story.

Just assume as to the details, I'm here longer than 12 months.

Actually that is an important part of your story as there is a significant difference in notice periods for tenancies of less than 6 months, more than 6 months but less than 12, and more than 12 months. I’m surprised given your situation that you would not know this.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Dav010 wrote: »

Actually that is an important part of your story as there is a significant difference in notice periods for tenancies of less than 6 months, more than 6 months but less than 12, and more than 12 months. I’m surprised given your situation that you would not know this.

I do know this.

I just have reservations about disclosing personal information on public internet boards.

So - if you're in this far, consider yourself in the inner sanctum; I can disclose to you these confidentialities.

I'm here longer than 12 months.

But if you're just passing through and only read the first page - it's six months.

Dav010

Iker Thundering Sender wrote: »

I do know this.

I just have reservations about disclosing personal information on public internet boards.

So - if you're in this far, consider yourself in the inner sanctum; I can disclose to you these confidentialities.

I'm here longer than 12 months.

But if you're just passing through and only read the first page - it's six months.

You seem a very uncomplicated person, disclosing a relevant fact like the duration of your tenancy when asking about termination of the tenancy shouldn’t be viewed as info only for those in your confidence, it is pertinent info which effects the answers to your questions.