VW ID.4

Silent Running

KCross wrote: »

Where did you see that?

The battery temp isn’t shown in the ID.3.

Note, if you do 200kms on the motorway and the outside temp is 5-10C you will get the full 100kW at the HPC... verified it myself!

Would it cause a riot if I asked what state of charge you arrived at the charger with?

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

What's worse is that Bjorn showed the ID.3 battery charging at a woeful 35 Kw with a "battery" temp of 10 Deg C and that's more than possible in Ireland to get the battery to this temp and lower.

I think he said it preheats to 17 Deg C and that's it but when plugged in, probably like the i3, battery heating might only come on when plugged in and depart timer set x hrs in advance.

I had high hopes for the id.3/4 in Winter but this proves the EV manufacturers still haven't a clue, just give us the option to preheat the battery to enable max charge speed that's independent of any charging timers ffs how hard is this to get into the heads of engineers ?

It actually doesn't preheat the battery when plugged in, which is a bug (might have been fixed already with the 2.0 software)


It seems to preheat the battery when:

• Car is started
• Preheating is triggered (and not plugged in)
• Every hour when the car is sitting idle

Bjorn did show later that he charged the car shortly after the battery heater had been running and he got a much better rate of charge


As I said, it's quite likely that VW are going for a setup which prioritises protecting the battery over charging speed. I think they're using the battery heater more to ensure the motor has the full power of the battery available than for improved charging speeds



Hopefully when they seem some degradation data they'll relax some of the limits


I think there's 3 things I'd like to see change regarding the battery heating:

1. Heat the battery when fast charging initially if the battery temp is very low
2. Navigation based preheating
3. Ability to override the battery heater to switch it on manually, or switch it off and suffer a power limit instead (for short trips)

liamog

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I think they're using the battery heater more to ensure the motor has the full power of the battery available than for improved charging speeds

That's exactly what a battery heater should do in normal conditions, the majority of the time this is going to be the optimum use case energy wise, heating on route to the charger will need the extra info, either via the sat nav or a manual override.

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

Would it cause a riot if I asked what state of charge you arrived at the charger with?

16%

At 52% I was still pulling 70kW.

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Bjorn did show later that he charged the car shortly after the battery heater had been running and he got a much better rate of charge

Were these the tests he did when it was -25°C?

You cant really rely on any of his tests for that as we dont see those temps and the battery heater kicking in in that scenario is to protect the battery from freezing.

The Gen 1 Leaf has that for the Nordic countries also.... it kicks in, iirc, when the temp drops below -15°C or some really low temp like that. Its not done to improve charge speeds, its done to just save the battery from killing itself.

I've seen a few vids now also of people claiming battery heater kicking in on the ID.3 because they see 7-9kW being used... its just a guess... that 7-9kW could be for cabin heating, no one really knows until, again, we see some CANBUS data.

Black_Knight

KCross wrote: »

Where did you see that?

The battery temp isn’t shown in the ID.3.

Note, if you do 200kms on the motorway and the outside temp is 5-10C you will get the full 100kW at the HPC... verified it myself!

The second video from ID.Furkan agrees with you there. His motorway run ends with a charge starting at 110kW. The issue being danced around here is the slower speed run he did and the poor 55kW charge speed from 30% soc at 4°. Over Christmas I did Athlone to cashel (all but the last few km are not motorway) and got 65kW+ from ionity in my Ioniq (around 30% soc too I believe)

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

It actually doesn't preheat the battery when plugged in, which is a bug (might have been fixed already with the 2.0 software)


It seems to preheat the battery when:

• Car is started
• Preheating is triggered (and not plugged in)
• Every hour when the car is sitting idle

Bjorn did show later that he charged the car shortly after the battery heater had been running and he got a much better rate of charge


As I said, it's quite likely that VW are going for a setup which prioritises protecting the battery over charging speed. I think they're using the battery heater more to ensure the motor has the full power of the battery available than for improved charging speeds



Hopefully when they seem some degradation data they'll relax some of the limits


I think there's 3 things I'd like to see change regarding the battery heating:

1. Heat the battery when fast charging initially if the battery temp is very low
2. Navigation based preheating
3. Ability to override the battery heater to switch it on manually, or switch it off and suffer a power limit instead (for short trips)

Bjorn later showed a faster rate of charge after he had been driving it some distance.

Coldgate is real for now.

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

The second video from ID.Furkan agrees with you there. His motorway run ends with a charge starting at 110kW. The issue being danced around here is the slower speed run he did and the poor 55kW charge speed from 30% soc at 4°. Over Christmas I did Athlone to cashel (all but the last few km are not motorway) and got 65kW+ from ionity in my Ioniq (around 30% soc too I believe)

At 10 degrees C Bjorn showed the id3 charging at 35 Kw, that's unacceptable, there needs to be user control over whether they want the battery heated or not to if they don't need to fast charge. Electrics in 2021 shouldn't be coldgating.

No point showing ambient temps either, the battery temp is the only thing that matters. Bjorn is able to see this with an app.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

16%

At 52% I was still pulling 70kW.




Were these the tests he did when it was -25°C?

You cant really rely on any of his tests for that as we dont see those temps and the battery heater kicking in in that scenario is to protect the battery from freezing.

The Gen 1 Leaf has that for the Nordic countries also.... it kicks in, iirc, when the temp drops below -15°C or some really low temp like that. Its not done to improve charge speeds, its done to just save the battery from killing itself.

I've seen a few vids now also of people claiming battery heater kicking in on the ID.3 because they see 7-9kW being used... its just a guess... that 7-9kW could be for cabin heating, no one really knows until, again, we see some CANBUS data.

It was -5 Deg C ambient when Bjorn showed the id3 charging at 35 Kw with a battery temp of 10 Deg C, ambient isn't important it's the battery temp that matters.

The fact of the matter is that the battery heater isn't even turning on when you want/need it regardless of battery or Ambient temps.

The car has a heater it should heat the battery simple as that really, give People the option to have control over their car.

JohnnyJohnJohns

Did anyone know what the T&C's are in terms of the deposit? When we ordered we expected delivery miss January but it's looking like it could be April or beyond at this stage. When I ordered I was told my details were out against a car so it's a bit frustrating that it's delayed by 3 months without much explanation from the dealer.

the_amazing_raisin

JohnnyJohnJohns wrote: »

Did anyone know what the T&C's are in terms of the deposit? When we ordered we expected delivery miss January but it's looking like it could be April or beyond at this stage. When I ordered I was told my details were out against a car so it's a bit frustrating that it's delayed by 3 months without much explanation from the dealer.

I suspect that there's a clause which says the dealer can delay without any penalties. I asked what happens if I cancel and they said the simple answer is that I lose my deposit, but they said it's possible to transfer it to another car but that's on a case by case basis

The reason they're delayed is because they've delayed the manufacturing of the cars for Ireland and presumably the UK. The reason I was given was because of covid they've had to slow down manufacturing. However I suspect they're trying to meet demand in mainland Europe and the US as they're lucrative markets for VW

yer man!

Saw one of these on the road today drive past me. Was an all white one and it really does look lovely. I like it more than the ID3 design and it looks fairly big in person. Very interested to see how well these are adopted across Ireland.

rocketspocket

yer man! wrote: »

Saw one of these on the road today drive past me. Was an all white one and it really does look lovely. I like it more than the ID3 design and it looks fairly big in person. Very interested to see how well these are adopted across Ireland.

Doubt you did - we had a debate a few days back & was concluded that it was not in ireland yet...

the_amazing_raisin

rocketspocket wrote: »

Doubt you did - we had a debate a few days back & was concluded that it was not in ireland yet...

Yeah someone's gonna have to take a picture if they see it

the_amazing_raisin

Just got in touch with the dealer to see if the February delivery date was still happening and was told that because of factory closures it'll be more like late March

Bit of a bummer, but expected based on what's been going on. I'll just have to enjoy a few more months of not being in crippling debt

Kramer

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I'll just have to enjoy a few more months of not being in crippling debt

Worrying about debt is so passe these days :pac:.

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Worrying about debt is so passe these days :pac:.

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

Haha, regrettably I'm not my own country (yet) so the more boring forms of debt apply to me.


I wouldn't mind some of that negative interest on my mortgage

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I'll just have to enjoy a few more months of not being in crippling debt

Haha, ah sure you only die once!

Did you go PCP HP ?

You'll have a very nice motor for your hard earned.

What version did you choose were there options ? what was the total cost ?

I can't wait to test drive one, just shame it doesn't have more poke but can't have it all, a lot better than a 1.6 Diesel lol

Kramer

Deleted User wrote: »

just shame it doesn't have more poke but can't have it all, a lot better than a 1.6 Diesel lol

We can only hope VW have addressed the cold charing issues that plague modern EV owners .

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

We can only hope VW have addressed the cold charing issues that plague modern EV owners .

Is there a hint of sarcasm in that sentence by any chance ?

the_amazing_raisin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is there a hint of sarcasm in that sentence by any chance ?

A hint!? My phone almost exploded from trying to handle that amount of sarcasm

Kramer

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there a hint of sarcasm in that sentence by any chance ?

:pac::pac::pac:

the_amazing_raisin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Haha, ah sure you only die once!

Did you go PCP HP ?

You'll have a very nice motor for your hard earned.

What version did you choose were there options ? what was the total cost ?

I can't wait to test drive one, just shame it doesn't have more poke but can't have it all, a lot better than a 1.6 Diesel lol

Exactly, not gonna waste it on something sensible

I went for the Max edition on PCP. Couldn't resist traveling in style. Also hopefully the massage seats will cause the missus to fall asleep so she won't nag me while driving

Final price was a fairly eye watering €55,580

Max deposit of €17,229 and 36 payments of €501.61. Final payment is €22,921

Cost of credit is €2,553

So yeah, a couple more months without having to pay that is fine by me

Kramer

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Final price was a fairly eye watering €55,580

Just think, you could have had a Chinese Model 3 for that, with enough left over for a trip to Specsavers for a pair of bifocals, so you'd be able to see how fast you're going :eek:.

Or, if really concerned by cold charging, 2x i3 RExs.

Well wear all the same - I'd say the ID.4 won't disappoint .

yer man!

rocketspocket wrote: »

Doubt you did - we had a debate a few days back & was concluded that it was not in ireland yet...

Not in Ireland, It was a left hand drive driving near the Hague.

the_amazing_raisin

yer man! wrote: »

Not in Ireland, It was a left hand drive driving near the Hague.

That's a fairly important details to leave out!

Black_Knight

cruisey1987 wrote: »

That's a fairly important details to leave out!

Saw loads of id4s today myself! Don't believe me? Just check my YouTube history

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

Saw loads of id4s today myself! Don't believe me? Just check my YouTube history

So did I, hopefully my boss isn't checking my browsing history

Sergijaws

Has anyone enquired about getting the retractable tow-bar? My dealer in Dublin said it would be available as an aftermarket option and they would install it in their shop, but had no info on pricing or availability.

the_amazing_raisin

Sergijaws wrote: »

Has anyone enquired about getting the retractable tow-bar? My dealer in Dublin said it would be available as an aftermarket option and they would install it in their shop, but had no info on pricing or availability.

I've asked the same question, hopefully they'll have an answer soon enough


I think it costs around €800 in Germany and something like €1200 in the Netherlands, so it's anyone's guess what it'll cost here



One guy on Youtube mentioned there's a prep kit you can get installed which cost €300 in the Netherlands which basically has all the wiring and cut outs for the tow bar and I guess makes the installation cheaper if you decide to go ahead with it


If that's an option here and it's around the same price then I might go for it as I don't need the towbar but I like the ideal of it being a quick job if I decide to install it in the future

the_amazing_raisin

It appears previous reports of an ID.4 in Ireland may have been true, complete car got one for review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R14yMcRaAZo

It's the German model of the 1st Max which I believe is basically the same as the 1st Max here