VW ID.4

Lantus

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I guess the argument there is around value for money, E-Tron and Taycan are better cars but do they represent good value for the crazy amount of money you're spending?

Yeah, it's the price point for the car. There are a lot of evs in the 40k range which offer expensive batteries and less ideal interiors. Kona is a stand out. Id4 has a cutting edge interior and tech to match. Still a way to go for affordability and a functional product not dependant on grants. But if governments hand out free money no private company will refuse.

Black_Knight

MarkN wrote: »

Will be uploading a video of the ID.4 over the next few days - let me know if you want anything in particular looked at

The responsiveness of the software. Bob eluded to it in his video, suggesting it was much better, but when he was trying to flic between front a rear window controls it seemed to hang on him. Seemed like a bit of sluggishness on the main display too.

the_amazing_raisin

Lantus wrote: »

Yeah, it's the price point for the car. There are a lot of evs in the 40k range which offer expensive batteries and less ideal interiors. Kona is a stand out. Id4 has a cutting edge interior and tech to match. Still a way to go for affordability and a functional product not dependant on grants. But if governments hand out free money no private company will refuse.

Nah, I'm fairly sure a good chunk of the "EV premium" is made up. I mean just do the math, if batteries cost around $100/kWh then a 77kWh battery costs $7,700, or let's say €7000.

But the price difference between a Tiguan and ID.4 is double that, and I'm not sure I'm willing to buy that the electric motor in the ID.4 costs €7k, especially when there's far fewer components overall

The way I see it, there's a bit of a game of chicken going on between the legacy automakers. They know if they drop prices too fast they'll lose government subsidies and all their more profitable ICE sales. But they also know there's a lot of market share for whoever puts out a compelling budget friendly EV early

I think VW for the moment is keeping the price high but trying to offset that with a premium interior in the ID.4 so they can outsell the competition

Black_Knight

cruisey1987 wrote: »

But the price difference between a Tiguan and ID.4 is double that, and I'm not sure I'm willing to buy that the electric motor in the ID.4 costs €7k, especially when there's far fewer components overall

I always like to compare as similar as I can. Biggest difference being an auto gearbox on a ICE car. Stick in a DSG on the Tiguan, some usb ports and a rear view camera and you're up past 40k.

the_amazing_raisin

Looks like the guys on Next move did a test of how towing affects range

https://youtu.be/lSH-n7VzoHg

Bit of a rubbish test as they compared the consumption with the trailer at 80km/h to 120km/h without, and the range went up with the trailer

I know the speed limit for trailer driving is 80 and you'd probably drive faster without one, but I'd prefer a same speed comparison personally

Anyways, results are below

120km/h no trailer - 243 Wh/km - 310km range
80km/h flat trailer - 222Wh/km - 340km range
80km/h box trailer - 304 Wh/km - 250km range

The test was in winter conditions, both directions to avoid wind bias and the same driver so it generally seems like a valid test

They put some wood in the trailer and I think they said it was around 400kg. The box trailer went above the roofline of the car so that's why the consumption was so high

Looks like fairly decent results overall, towing didn't completely crater the range and seems very adequate for what most people would be towing

I'd love to see it towing a caravan next, I'd say that'll completely ruin the aerodynamics and drop the range to under 200km

Black_Knight

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Looks like the guys on Next move did a test of how towing affects range

https://youtu.be/lSH-n7VzoHg

Bit of a rubbish test as they compared the consumption with the trailer at 80km/h to 120km/h without, and the range went up with the trailer

I know the speed limit for trailer driving is 80 and you'd probably drive faster without one, but I'd prefer a same speed comparison personally

Anyways, results are below

120km/h no trailer - 243 Wh/km - 310km range
80km/h flat trailer - 222Wh/km - 340km range
80km/h box trailer - 304 Wh/km - 250km range

The test was in winter conditions, both directions to avoid wind bias and the same driver so it generally seems like a valid test

They put some wood in the trailer and I think they said it was around 400kg. The box trailer went above the roofline of the car so that's why the consumption was so high

Looks like fairly decent results overall, towing didn't completely crater the range and seems very adequate for what most people would be towing

I'd love to see it towing a caravan next, I'd say that'll completely ruin the aerodynamics and drop the range to under 200km

Love to see anyone towing a caravan with sub 200km range trying to get a charge anywhere in Ireland! That'd be a complete joke on ESBs behalf.

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

I always like to compare as similar as I can. Biggest difference being an auto gearbox on a ICE car. Stick in a DSG on the Tiguan, some usb ports and a rear view camera and you're up past 40k.

I get you but if you ignore the trim for a second you're essentially paying more money for fewer and simpler components in an EV

I know there's added cost due to the battery and that's fair enough, but there's also savings on other components which I don't think gets reflected in the price of the vehicle

Basically I feel like the price is being inflated somewhat so VW (and other companies) can keep the subsidies going.

Sooner or later someone will bring out a compelling low cost EV and all the competition will be forced to cut prices to match

Jofspring

I think a lot were hoping Skoda would be the ones to get prices moving down but that didn't happen

Irishjg

Jofspring wrote: »

I think a lot were hoping Skoda would be the ones to get prices moving down but that didn't happen

Yes that’s so true, I was very interested in the Enyak up to the point where Skoda published the pricing for the first editions.

Black_Knight

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I get you but if you ignore the trim for a second you're essentially paying more money for fewer and simpler components in an EV

I know there's added cost due to the battery and that's fair enough, but there's also savings on other components which I don't think gets reflected in the price of the vehicle

Basically I feel like the price is being inflated somewhat so VW (and other companies) can keep the subsidies going.

Sooner or later someone will bring out a compelling low cost EV and all the competition will be forced to cut prices to match

We'll the ~10k of government grants somewhat means the id4 starts at 53k. I get your point though. They should be cheaper, but if people will pay it, why not charge it. iPhones could be cheaper too!

liamog

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I get you but if you ignore the trim for a second you're essentially paying more money for fewer and simpler components in an EV

I know there's added cost due to the battery and that's fair enough, but there's also savings on other components which I don't think gets reflected in the price of the vehicle

Cars with more equipment cost more money, its not news, when you have a vehicle which is going to sell out its production for the foreseeable future you concentrate on selling the ones with the higher margin options.

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

Love to see anyone towing a caravan with sub 200km range trying to get a charge anywhere in Ireland! That'd be a complete joke on ESBs behalf.

At least you have somewhere to stay while stuck between charges

L-M

Black_Knight wrote: »

We'll the ~10k of government grants somewhat means the id4 starts at 53k. I get your point though. They should be cheaper, but if people will pay it, why not charge it. iPhones could be cheaper too!

The grants aren’t 10k anymore.

sk8board

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Looks like Bob Flavin got a go in it as well, first time I've seen him grinning ear to ear about a car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW7crVGm-s4

That ‘amazing’ heads up he refers to, that gives a visual representation of your distance to the car in front, or the roadside - is that in the ID3 too?

I’m v impressed with the lack of road noise he had at 100kmph on 20” wheels

eagerv

sk8board wrote: »

That ‘amazing’ heads up he refers to, that gives a visual representation of your distance to the car in front, or the roadside - is that in the ID3 too?

I’m v impressed with the lack of road noise he had at 100kmph on 20” wheels

I think it's probably the same system as on the ID.3 Max and the Tech. All ID.3s have the visual representation of the car in front, it's used for the Acc and the smart regen. (But not in a heads up.)


I would imagine the ID.4 is a very refined car on Dublin roads. Down the country we have a lot of very rough roads where the ID.3 is refined, but you do hear a bit of rumble on some surfaces. Probably similar to our Ioniq now with quiet tyres, but overall refinement a lot better with almost no drive train noises and very smooth and quiet regen. Also no creaks, rattles and little wind noise.

JohnnyJohnJohns

Does anyone know what PCP is like for the 1st max with the 30% deposit? Doesn't seem like great value over the base 1st but I'm very tempted!

the_amazing_raisin

JohnnyJohnJohns wrote: »

Does anyone know what PCP is like for the 1st max with the 30% deposit? Doesn't seem like great value over the base 1st but I'm very tempted!

About 17k down payment
€500 per month for 3 years
Final payment something like 24k
2.9% Apr

I posted the exact figures I was quoted a while back, let me try to find it now

the_amazing_raisin

eagerv wrote: »

I would imagine the ID.4 is a very refined car on Dublin roads. Down the country we have a lot of very rough roads where the ID.3 is refined, but you do hear a bit of rumble on some surfaces. Probably similar to our Ioniq now with quiet tyres, but overall refinement a lot better with almost no drive train noises and very smooth and quiet regen. Also no creaks, rattles and little wind noise.

I saw a review of the ID.4 from a couple of Swedish guys and they mentioned the road noise was pretty bad compared to the Volvo XC90 petrol

The roads were covered in snow and ice so I imagine there was a fair amount of rumble from that. It's about the worst case possible but I was still a little surprised at the results

I think you're correct that on smooth tarmac it'll be very quiet, but it'll be interesting to see how it performs on bumpier roads. Hopefully it doesn't start showing up every bit of noise

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

About 17k down payment
€500 per month for 3 years
Final payment something like 24k
2.9% Apr

I posted the exact figures I was quoted a while back, let me try to find it now

17K down

500 pm x 36

24K Balloon ( if you want to own it )

Total = 59,000 Euro's ?

Sure you don't want a Tesla ? lol

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I saw a review of the ID.4 from a couple of Swedish guys and they mentioned the road noise was pretty bad compared to the Volvo XC90 petrol

The roads were covered in snow and ice so I imagine there was a fair amount of rumble from that. It's about the worst case possible but I was still a little surprised at the results

I think you're correct that on smooth tarmac it'll be very quiet, but it'll be interesting to see how it performs on bumpier roads. Hopefully it doesn't start showing up every bit of noise

Very few cars are designed for Irish tar and chipping surfaces, even most of our new motorways have the roughest possible surface which causes lots of noise pollution at high speeds which might be why they used good quality surface for a change on the M7 3 lane upgrade around Naas and on the Newlands Cross fly-over but I've seen some youtube videos of the id.4 being tested in the U.S and they were very impressed with how quiet it was. I can't imagine it being nearly as bad as the Kona EV, that was horrific.

JohnnyJohnJohns

[Deleted User] wrote: »

17K down

500 pm x 36

24K Balloon ( if you want to own it )

Total = 59,000 Euro's ?

Sure you don't want a Tesla ? lol

I'd love a Tesla but the model 3 isn't very family friendly in terms of shape and the Y is probably too far away to wait for.

JohnnyJohnJohns

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Exactly, not gonna waste it on something sensible

I went for the Max edition on PCP. Couldn't resist traveling in style. Also hopefully the massage seats will cause the missus to fall asleep so she won't nag me while driving

Final price was a fairly eye watering €55,580

Max deposit of €17,229 and 36 payments of €501.61. Final payment is €22,921

Cost of credit is €2,553

So yeah, a couple more months without having to pay that is fine by me

That does feel step compared to 13k deposit, 379 pm and 18k final payment alright!

How many Kms is that PCP Plan for ?

eagerv

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I saw a review of the ID.4 from a couple of Swedish guys and they mentioned the road noise was pretty bad compared to the Volvo XC90 petrol

The roads were covered in snow and ice so I imagine there was a fair amount of rumble from that. It's about the worst case possible but I was still a little surprised at the results

I think you're correct that on smooth tarmac it'll be very quiet, but it'll be interesting to see how it performs on bumpier roads. Hopefully it doesn't start showing up every bit of noise

The XC90 is in a different class of car, I would hope it would be pretty refined.
I am sure on most road types the ID.4 will be very refined, as is the ID.3.

the_amazing_raisin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How many Kms is that PCP Plan for ?

60,000km over 3 years, going over eats into the equity at the end

the_amazing_raisin

JohnnyJohnJohns wrote: »

That does feel step compared to 13k deposit, 379 pm and 18k final payment alright!

Yeah it's a bit of a jump, I really wanted the travel assist and the sunroof though

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

60,000km over 3 years, going over eats into the equity at the end

Hmm, that doesn't appear a good deal for 20K Kms a year really but I suppose you got the Max which is 55 k isn't it ? so 4 K more for interest. Still seems a lot.

I guess I wouldn't be getting an id.4 than at 30k Kms a year or more I'd be paying a lot more wouldn't be worth going with PCP. Depreciation for me is a killer making me think twice about buying new again but then again I got a great deal on the i3 at only 9 months old and 9,500 Kms, not sure I'd get a good deal like that again in a hurry.

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Yeah it's a bit of a jump, I really wanted the travel assist and the sunroof though

So with the Max you get the travel assist ?

JohnnyJohnJohns

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Yeah it's a bit of a jump, I really wanted the travel assist and the sunroof though

And automatic boot, 360 cameras, electric seats (with massage), HUD, and a few more bits!

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

So with the Max you get the travel assist ?

Yup, base 1st has radar cruise control but won't follow the lanes, just buzz you when your drift out of lane. It does have stop and go but not sure how well it works



Travel assist will do lane following and stop and go in traffic I believe. If you find videos of the system from the ID.3 it's basically the same in the ID.4