VW ID.4

MarkN

4ft wide... depends on your adults width

boccy23

There is a significant price difference between the 1st and 1st Max (€48.8K versus €59.5K). What are peoples thoughts on the versions?

I know there is a 12" screen, 21" alloys, HUD, panoramic sun roof, wireless charging and the "Travel Assist", but €10K is a big difference.

the_amazing_raisin

boccy23 wrote: »

There is a significant price difference between the 1st and 1st Max (€48.8K versus €59.5K). What are peoples thoughts on the versions?

I know there is a 12" screen, 21" alloys, HUD, panoramic sun roof, wireless charging and the "Travel Assist", but €10K is a big difference.

I went for the Max, but I won't defend it as a good financial desision, I really wanted the sunroof and travel assist and a few of the other features


The Max also has the electric tailgate, electric adjustable and massage seats in the front and the matrix headlights


The headlights are pretty deadly, the full beams are divided into segments. When the car sees other cars, it'll blank out those segments of the full beam. So you still have great visilibity at night without blinding other drivers


€10k is a big jump alright, I think a lot of the added cost is down to the travel assist, the computers needed for it are pretty expensive and would cost several thousand alone


It's up to you really, whether the gadgets in the Max make it worthwhile to you

the_amazing_raisin

Looks like the ID.4's big brother, the ID.6 got leaked by the Chinese government, again

https://electrek.co/2021/02/03/vw-id-6-electric-suv-leak-first-pictures/

The photos look a lot more production ready than the Roomz concept so this could be what's getting built

Basically it looks like it'll be an ID.4 with a bigger boot(y). Makes sense to save on production costs, I suspect the interior will be largely the same as well

There looks to be enough space there for a 3rd row of seats, although they might be suitable for kids only (Skoda Kodiaq style). Good to see some more 7-seater EVs coming out

Interestingly, they mentioned the same 82kWh pack used in the ID.4, that seems to indicate they're using the same MEB chassis as the ID.4 and not the longer version that's going into the Buzz or the Vizzion (or ID.7 and 8 or whatever they'll be called).

They also mentioned 150kW charging, up from the 125kW in the ID.4. Probably BS, but faster charging is always a plus, especially on what is no doubt going to be a thirsty vehicle

Black_Knight

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Looks like the ID.4's big brother, the ID.6 got leaked by the Chinese government, again

https://electrek.co/2021/02/03/vw-id-6-electric-suv-leak-first-pictures/

The photos look a lot more production ready than the Roomz concept so this could be what's getting built

Basically it looks like it'll be an ID.4 with a bigger boot(y). Makes sense to save on production costs, I suspect the interior will be largely the same as well

There looks to be enough space there for a 3rd row of seats, although they might be suitable for kids only (Skoda Kodiaq style). Good to see some more 7-seater EVs coming out

Interestingly, they mentioned the same 82kWh pack used in the ID.4, that seems to indicate they're using the same MEB chassis as the ID.4 and not the longer version that's going into the Buzz or the Vizzion (or ID.7 and 8 or whatever they'll be called).

They also mentioned 150kW charging, up from the 125kW in the ID.4. Probably BS, but faster charging is always a plus, especially on what is no doubt going to be a thirsty vehicle

150kW with the same battery pack sounds like BS. Why not have 150kW in the ID4 then? 150kW might be in their bigger battery pack/500km range ID6 model. I suspect the 82kWh battery pack will be like a 350-400km WLTP range.

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

150kW with the same battery pack sounds like BS. Why not have 150kW in the ID4 then? 150kW might be in their bigger battery pack/500km range ID6 model. I suspect the 82kWh battery pack will be like a 350-400km WLTP range.

Yeah I'm pretty suspicious about that 150kW statement, maybe it was the motor power instead? It would match up with the other ID models


I'm not sure they can get a bigger pack on that MEB chassis. AFAIK the bigger 110kWh battery needs a longer wheelbase and sits in a bigger MEB chassis. I think that's why the Buzz is going to be built at Emden, because they have the tooling for longer wheelbase vehicles

Lantus

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Yeah I'm pretty suspicious about that 150kW statement, maybe it was the motor power instead? It would match up with the other ID models


I'm not sure they can get a bigger pack on that MEB chassis. AFAIK the bigger 110kWh battery needs a longer wheelbase and sits in a bigger MEB chassis. I think that's why the Buzz is going to be built at Emden, because they have the tooling for longer wheelbase vehicles

Article stated 150kw charging. Not battery size.

Lantus

boccy23 wrote: »

There is a significant price difference between the 1st and 1st Max (€48.8K versus €59.5K). What are peoples thoughts on the versions?

I know there is a 12" screen, 21" alloys, HUD, panoramic sun roof, wireless charging and the "Travel Assist", but €10K is a big difference.

You get some nice premium features for the money. Are they worth 10k? Probably not but it's more about the excitement of purchase and getting behind the wheel at this early stage and you are paying for that as well. If you have to question the price then probably not for you. It's a heart not head jump.

The travel assist doesn't add a lot to the id.3 tour and this has the same 80 odd Kwh pack ?

catharsis

Deleted User wrote: »

The travel assist doesn't add a lot to the id.3 tour and this has the same 80 odd Kwh pack ?

Yes, but from the vw.nl site, the ID4 base models and pricing are available, and unfortunately there is no ID.4 tour available....

in fact looking at those prices the 1st and max look like decent value :-0

the_amazing_raisin

Lantus wrote: »

Article stated 150kw charging. Not battery size.

True but the article was mostly speculation and a lot of the details presented were from the Roomz concept and not a production vehicle

the_amazing_raisin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The travel assist doesn't add a lot to the id.3 tour and this has the same 80 odd Kwh pack ?

What trim are you comparing to? I think the next ones down for the ID.3 are the Max and Tech, both of which have most of the features of the Tour, just a smaller battery

digiman

Does anyone fancy sharing their id4 Max prices? Please PM, trying to figure out what I can push the dealers to

the_amazing_raisin

digiman wrote: »

Does anyone fancy sharing their id4 Max prices? Please PM, trying to figure out what I can push the dealers to

I wasn't able to get a discount, price in the brochure is what I got

You may have more success arguing for a higher trade in on your old car, if it's something that'll sell fairly easily then the dealership might accept a lower profit on the trade in if it means they'll sell a new high spec vehicle in the process

You'll never get more than selling it privately though

digiman

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I wasn't able to get a discount, price in the brochure is what I got

You may have more success arguing for a higher trade in on your old car, if it's something that'll sell fairly easily then the dealership might accept a lower profit on the trade in if it means they'll sell a new high spec vehicle in the process

You'll never get more than selling it privately though

Did you have a trade in?

the_amazing_raisin

digiman wrote: »

Did you have a trade in?

I got a trade in value on my 2016 Leaf, €7k, which I wasn't too impressed with. I asked could it be increased they said no because they're getting a lot of Leafs traded in at the moment

My plan then was to sell privately as I reckoned I could get €9k for it, however my wife is probably going to take the car for a while and sell her old banger so that she can work up the savings for a newer car

carsfan2

I could be wrong and maybe L-M can correct me but I think I read that VW were moving to a commission based selling model for the id range and that the price was non negotiable. A set figure for the dealer for every unit sold. Following Tesla I suppose. Any discount is an over valuation of the trade in.

Lantus

carsfan2 wrote: »

I could be wrong and maybe L-M can correct me but I think I read that VW were moving to a commission based selling model for the id range and that the price was non negotiable. A set figure for the dealer for every unit sold. Following Tesla I suppose. Any discount is an over valuation of the trade in.

Upping the trade in is the norm for all car sales as that's how the electronic system works. There is no space for a discount!

The first edition of any car is generally subject to excitement and over subscription which never equates to a discount. If you don't want there are plenty others happy to pay that price. In 3 years though....

Phil.x

Starting to really like these new VW cars, not that I could justify the cost though.

the_amazing_raisin

Phil.x wrote: »

Starting to really like these new VW cars, not that I could justify the cost though.

You'll never be able to justify a new car financially unfortunately

In terms of fun however, it's very easy to justify

54and56

cruisey1987 wrote: »

You'll never be able to justify a new car financially unfortunately

In terms of fun however, it's very easy to justify

How business friendly world the €58k Max be? Currently have a 6 year old Touareg which is super comfortable, bullet proof mechanically and something I could easily drive for another 10 years but also like the idea of switching away from diesel.

Anyone here buying a max as a company car?

JohnnyJohnJohns

54and56 wrote: »

How business friendly world the €58k Max be? Currently have a 6 year old Touareg which is super comfortable, bullet proof mechanically and something I could easily drive for another 10 years but also like the idea of switching away from diesel.

Anyone here buying a max as a company car?

I think probably similar but generally I've found driving an EV to be much more comfortable than a diesel. But if you had to travel from cork to Belfast a bit as part of work the comfort might wear thin. I've a neighbour who's ordered 2 for work (not max) and I think with the BIK he said it was a no brainer but must of their work is in and around Dublin so comfortable enough in terms of range.

the_amazing_raisin

54and56 wrote: »

How business friendly world the €58k Max be? Currently have a 6 year old Touareg which is super comfortable, bullet proof mechanically and something I could easily drive for another 10 years but also like the idea of switching away from diesel.

Anyone here buying a max as a company car?

There's a lot of variables in that question, so the best answer is maybe

A couple of things to be aware of

- Company cars don't get the seai grant, so the price goes up by €5k. They can however claim part of the cost of the car and charger against tax under Accelerated Capital Allowance. You'll need the company accountant to help with the details
- The ID.4 is Tiguan sized, smaller than the Touareg. It's quite roomy inside but it'd be a good idea to make sure it fits everything you want to carry
- You'll be liable for BIK on the cost over €50k. This is probably negligible compared to what you're currently paying though

So it's possible an EV can make an excellent company car. However you'll need to make sure it fits your driving profile

The main considerations are range and charging. The ID.4 seems to have a range of 300km in the middle of winter, this is roughly the worst case. You'll need to compare this to what kind of daily driving you'll need to do and see if it works for you

Since it's a company vehicle, I'm guessing you'll be doing a lot of long distance driving. You might need to do rapid charges depending on what your daily driving looks like. It'd be a good idea to look at the common routes you take and find what the available chargers are. I'd suggest using the site below to calculate this

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

It has a preset for the ID.4 and you can play around with things like the outside temperature and your top speed. It'll tell you where and when to charge on a particular route

If possible I'd recommend using Ionity chargers. They're faster and more reliable than the ESB ones and even though they're more expensive, you get a discount rate from VW for 3 years

You'll also want to get a home charger. You can't get the grant but again you can claim the cost of the charger under ACA. Depending on what your company requires in terms of expense tracking, you might want one that can measure consumption

You'll also want to get a night rate electricity meter if you don't already have one, and use a comparison site to figure out the cheapest electricity provider. This is key to maximising your savings with an EV

Another consideration is whether the Max is the best option for you. It's the top spec and has the Travel assist and emergency assist, both of which are great for long distance driving. However, it is quite a lot of money, and if you don't need all the features then it could be worth waiting for the series models in a few months

The series models are available to order in Germany, so you can go to vw.de and take a look. The Irish versions will probably have some differences but should largely be the same

Overall, I think an EV can be a great company car, if it suits you. I did the math for a neighbour who drives a big stinking Ford pickup and does around 60,000km per year. I reckon if he switched to an ID.4 he'd save between €3k and €5k per year. So basically he could bring his family to Disneyland twice a year and still have change leftover

the_amazing_raisin

54and56 wrote: »

How business friendly world the €58k Max be? Currently have a 6 year old Touareg which is super comfortable, bullet proof mechanically and something I could easily drive for another 10 years but also like the idea of switching away from diesel.

Anyone here buying a max as a company car?

A couple of other things I just thought of

You could look at leasing an ID.4 for 6 months. It's probably the most expensive option in terms of monthly payments, and I don't think it's available for the 1st edition, but it's probably a safe way of trying the car without locking yourselves into a multi year finance deal

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but you guys do a fair amount of travelling to France (I think I've seen you on the travel forum?)

You'll probably want to look into the pros and cons of bringing an EV to another country. Generally the charging network in France seems better but there are a fair number of gaps, so you'll want to plan your routes in advance

I have noticed a lot of resorts have EV chargers available for guests, so you could get away with very little public charging, and save a nice bundle of cash on diesel in the process

54and56

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but you guys do a fair amount of travelling to France (I think I've seen you on the travel forum?)

You'll probably want to look into the pros and cons of bringing an EV to another country. Generally the charging network in France seems better but there are a fair number of gaps, so you'll want to plan your routes in advance

I have noticed a lot of resorts have EV chargers available for guests, so you could get away with very little public charging, and save a nice bundle of cash on diesel in the process

Wow, lots of great info there cruisey1987 and good spot on the France angle!!!

Yeah, were generally load up like National Lampoon, get the ferry to France and drive just over 800km to the SW coast not far from the Spanish border. The current and previous (2005) Touareg have always facilitated those fully loaded (bike rack+ roof box + 4 passengers etc) trips in comfort without any drama.

Doing the same in an EV would require more planning and given the heavy load and distance would probably require two charges along the way which wouldn't necessarily increase journey time as we always stop twice for food along the way.

Likely this year (if we get to go) could be our last as the "kids" are now 20 and 16 so spreading their own wings. Likely we won't be doing such long distance driving from next year onwards so that might be the ideal time to switch to an id.4.

the_amazing_raisin

54and56 wrote: »

Wow, lots of great info there cruisey1987 and good spot on the France angle!!!

Yeah, were generally load up like National Lampoon, get the ferry to France and drive just over 800km to the SW coast not far from the Spanish border. The current and previous (2005) Touareg have always facilitated those fully loaded (bike rack+ roof box + 4 passengers etc) trips in comfort without any drama.

Doing the same in an EV would require more planning and given the heavy load and distance would probably require two charges along the way which wouldn't necessarily increase journey time as we always stop twice for food along the way.

Likely this year (if we get to go) could be our last as the "kids" are now 20 and 16 so spreading their own wings. Likely we won't be doing such long distance driving from next year onwards so that might be the ideal time to switch to an id.4.

Yeah that's a significant journey to take with an EV, I'd definitely recommend playing around with A Better Route planner to see what the journey will look like

For reference, a trip from Cherbourg to Lyon (~880km) will take 3 charging stops, totalling 90 mins of charging time. That's not too bad considering you'd be stopping for food or rest breaks

One of the quirks/annoyances with fast charging an EV is that although the manufacturer advertises a peak charging speed (125kW for the ID.4) they car will not always achieve this.

First you need to find a charger capable or providing at least 125kW, often called High Power Chargers. All Ionity chargers can supply up to 350kW, so no issues there, but a lot of the older ones will only supply 50kW, meaning the charger will limit your charging speed

The other quirk is that batteries don't charge at a constant rate. They'll charge fastest when they're close to empty up to around 30%, after this they'll start to slow down. Typically it isn't useful to fast charge above 80% as the charging speed slows dramatically. You'd only go above 80% if you need it for the next leg of the journey

In general, it looks like central France is well served with Ionity chargers and other high power chargers. Towards the coasts it seems to get a bit more sparse, mostly 50kW chargers

I'd recommend watching the video below about a European road trip in an EV, it's a fairly good overview of the realities of it (although Mr Till does tend to waffle a lot)
https://youtu.be/vSg5EYFk1I8

I simply wouldn't take a European trip in an EV, I'd think twice before I'd drive to the west of Ireland and back in one or take a weekend away in Ireland, the charging situation here is a nightmare. Now imagine the planning involved, having the right access cards, apps etc. You pay for Diesel in Euro's not in multiple currencies so the same should be for electric car charging.

By all means get an EV just rent or borrow an ICE for the week or two abroad.

MarkN

Have you much experience of using an EV to get around?

Busman Paddy Lasty

Ireland is no bother in a long range ev though. Dublin to Kerry one charge on the way so we could arrive with plenty of range leftover. Donegal back to Dublin we only stopped in Kinnegad to try out the Easy Go app and go to Supermacs. Could have made home.

ID4 should drive similar in Ireland. Continent shouldn't be too much of an issue because Ionity.

the_amazing_raisin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I simply wouldn't take a European trip in an EV, I'd think twice before I'd drive to the west of Ireland and back in one or take a weekend away in Ireland, the charging situation here is a nightmare. Now imagine the planning involved, having the right access cards, apps etc. You pay for Diesel in Euro's not in multiple currencies so the same should be for electric car charging.

By all means get an EV just rent or borrow an ICE for the week or two abroad.

If anything I'd feel better about driving an EV in Europe than Ireland. Most European countries have vastly superior charging networks to here and between Plug surfing and Chargemap that's most of the networks covered for payment