VW ID.4

L-M · 02-10-2020 8:57pm

With a 500km range and at that price point I really can’t see why anyone shouldn’t buy an ID.4 next year over any Tiguan/Passat or the likes. It just doesn’t make sense.

I can see a massive, massive change towards electric next year

the_amazing_raisin · 02-10-2020 9:00pm

L-M wrote: »

With a 500km range and at that price point I really can’t see why anyone shouldn’t buy an ID.4 next year over any Tiguan/Passat or the likes. It just doesn’t make sense.

I can see a massive, massive change towards electric next year

To be fair, the range is probably closer to 350km, but yes, can't see why anyone would bother buying an ICE suv now

Black_Knight · 02-10-2020 9:15pm

cannco253 wrote: »

https://electrek.co/2020/10/01/leaked-vw-id-4-dealer-document/

"A dealer cheat sheet for the upcoming VW ID.4 electric SUV has been leaked, and it shows that the company considers gas SUVs, rather than electric SUVs like the Mustang Mach-E, Tesla Model Y, and upcoming Nissan Ariya, as its direct competitors."

Is the "pro" in the US like the Max here?

L-M · 02-10-2020 9:26pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

To be fair, the range is probably closer to 350km, but yes, can't see why anyone would bother buying an ICE suv now

I doubt it would be 350km for “most”’ people’s driving. On a week to week basis very few would do more than 500 a week, never mind in one day.

galwaytt · 02-10-2020 11:41pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

To be fair, the range is probably closer to 350km, but yes, can't see why anyone would bother buying an ICE suv now

There's one simple reason: price.

03-10-2020 11:53am

cruisey1987 wrote: »

To be fair, the range is probably closer to 350km, but yes, can't see why anyone would bother buying an ICE suv now

No one I know is in any way shape or form interested in buying an EV.

Diesel is too cheap so why would anyone inconvenience themselves with public chargers even if they only need them occasionally. Most People are willing to shell out 50+ euro's a week for Diesel.

Black_Knight · 03-10-2020 12:34pm

And some people won't charge energy provider year on year, or don't see a mortgage cash back offer as being worse value than a lower interest rate. Initial cost/savings is what most people see, not longer term.

I've been "inconvenienced" by public charging once in the last 8 months. A 16 minute inconvenience, which has saved me 100s over that time. As I say to anyone half interested in EVs, do the math. It's unbiased.

liamog · 03-10-2020 12:39pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No one I know is in any way shape or form interested in buying an EV.

Given your general negative attitude to EVs without REXs I'm not surprised, you seem to have a warped view of the inconvenience of the rapid charging network, no doubt this view has impacted the opinions of people in your circle.

Most people I know are of the opinion that their next car will be an EV, but they are not ready to make the change yet. Models like the ID.4 and Enyaq are going a long way towards resolving the EV choice problem, I suspect we'll see high demand for them in 3 years when they come off their initial PCPs.

03-10-2020 1:04pm

liamog wrote: »

Given your general negative attitude to EVs without REXs I'm not surprised, you seem to have a warped view of the inconvenience of the rapid charging network, no doubt this view has impacted the opinions of people in your circle.

Most people I know are of the opinion that their next car will be an EV, but they are not ready to make the change yet. Models like the ID.4 and Enyaq are going a long way towards resolving the EV choice problem, I suspect we'll see high demand for them in 3 years when they come off their initial PCPs.

On the contrary, I'm always promoting electric cars. I do not lie to People if they ask me a question though if that's being negative then I couldn't care less.

Fact charging for 30+ mins is very inconvenient in the minds of many People, just because it's unimaginable to some BEV owners here doesn't mean those People haven't got a clue, if it doesn't work for them it doesn't work.

One visitor to work this week, he couldn't be convinced no matter what I would have said. He can get 700 Kms in his Diesel and he went to Kerry a couple of weeks ago and drove non stop so what can I do about it ? try convince him EV is great and charging is brilliant ? I couldn't care less any more all I can do is just explain how I live with an EV and that's it, I'm not going to push it down their throats that it's great just because I drive EV or whatever you want to call it.

There's no denying that charging is inconvenient when you need it, no matter how ofter or not you need it if the charger is busy etc etc. It's just ridiculous saying otherwise, if there were a lot more chargers around I may say otherwise. Now add to this cold battery charging is also inconveniently adding more time onto charging.

liamog · 03-10-2020 8:43pm

It's a balance thing, if we take ev-database's real world estimate of 380km for the ID.4, then charging for 30 mins is something you'll do after 3 hours of driving. Let's face it, there just aren't that many people doing regular >300km journeys to make that an insufferable delay.
If your man is doing a trip to Kerry once a year, and has to charge once on the way down and again on the way up, he's lost an hour of time, but gained many more than that by never having to go to a petrol station.

03-10-2020 9:38pm

liamog wrote: »

It's a balance thing, if we take ev-database's real world estimate of 380km for the ID.4, then charging for 30 mins is something you'll do after 3 hours of driving. Let's face it, there just aren't that many people doing regular >300km journeys to make that an insufferable delay.
If your man is doing a trip to Kerry once a year, and has to charge once on the way down and again on the way up, he's lost an hour of time, but gained many more than that by never having to go to a petrol station.

In fairness, he couldn't care less about going to a Petrol station, most drivers have been doing this all their lives.

300 kms is grand and all that but when you need the network it's either in use, queue or no chargers. When you're away from home is when you need it the most.

Black_Knight · 03-10-2020 10:12pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In fairness, he couldn't care less about going to a Petrol station, most drivers have been doing this all their lives.

300 kms is grand and all that but when you need the network it's either in use, queue or no chargers. When you're away from home is when you need it the most.

But can you guarantee that?

03-10-2020 10:54pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

But can you guarantee that?

Guarantee what ?

Black_Knight · 03-10-2020 11:03pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Guarantee what ?

That when I need the network it'll be in use or broken.

the_amazing_raisin · 03-10-2020 11:11pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

That when I need the network it'll be in use or broken.

I must have clicked into the eCars thread by accident

Just kidding of course, we're getting a tad off topic

liamog · 03-10-2020 11:15pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

That when I need the network it'll be in use or broken.

Out of interest, are you capturing snapshots of which chargers are occupied when you scrape the data. I know it's anecdotal but whenever I look at the eCars map these days there seems to be lots of availability on the ComboCCS chargers.

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I must have clicked into the eCars thread by accident

Just kidding of course, we're getting a tad off topic

Didn't you hear, the ID.4 is going to be a massive fail because of that one time a year yer man needs to drive to Kerry.

the_amazing_raisin · 04-10-2020 8:28am

liamog wrote: »

Didn't you hear, the ID.4 is going to be a massive fail because of that one time a year yer man needs to drive to Kerry.

He'll have to get the Haely Rae's to come help him push his EV the last bit of the way

Unfortunately there's a sizeable chunk of the population who believe that a vehicle which caters to 99% of their needs is insufficient because of a fairly minor inconvenience during the other 1% of their driving.

I do agree with Mad_lad to an extent that the fast charging network needs to be improved before I'd be happy relying on it every day, we've talked the topic to death multiple times on boards.

But I don't think it's totally useless, there's only been one time when I had to wait for a significant amount of time for the charger to become available. 50% of the time the chargers are free and the rest of the times I was waiting about 10 mins Max

Part of the problem I think is people's attitude towards driving. There's a lot of folks who seem to treat every road trip as a race and try to arrive at their destination as quickly as possible. I can understand that viewpoint if you're a mobile worker or delivery man or something, but why stress yourself for weekend journeys?

That's one of the reasons I prefer driving long distance with an EV. I think the quieter ride removes some of the stress and let's you appreciate the journey more.

Also, it's probably worth mentioning that the ID.4 could probably make it to Kerry on a single charge from most of Ireland. Certainly it'd make it from Dublin in one go

Black_Knight · 04-10-2020 10:33am

liamog wrote: »

Out of interest, are you capturing snapshots of which chargers are occupied when you scrape the data. I know it's anecdotal but whenever I look at the eCars map these days there seems to be lots of availability on the ComboCCS chargers.
.

No. I didn't want to go hammering their API unannounced. I query their API for every charger (somewhat dumbly) a few times a day. If someone wanted I'll gladly query a single (or handful) charge point every 5 minutes and put some data together for a few months.

04-10-2020 12:15pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I do agree with Mad_lad to an extent that the fast charging network needs to be improved before I'd be happy relying on it every day, we've talked the topic to death multiple times on boards.

It's not good enough for me yet and I don't rely on it Daily or weekly or any time really with the Rex but it's when I'm away on that weekend trip that I need it the most and it's unreliable with only 1-2 DC charger in most towns that have a charger outside of Dublin.

Limerick has only 2 x 50 Kw chargers ffs, ridiculous, 1x 50 KW for all of Kerry, Cork has 3 x 50 Kw, Galway has 2, then there is the West in General with very few chargers especially along the coast and they're all 50 Kw not great for cars that can charge at higher rates.

Naas 1x 50 Kw

Kildare, the most Populated county outside Dublin has a total of 4 X DC chargers......

I'm not trying to be funny but we got a very long way to go and it will be a long way with the ESB in charge of the national network.

I will say though that at this point in time if I do go back to BEV only with the extra range of a modern EV I will live without the Rex and just take the Diesel Outlander for the rest as I expect most People will do with 2 cars at home.

the_amazing_raisin · 04-10-2020 3:51pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

No. I didn't want to go hammering their API unannounced. I query their API for every charger (somewhat dumbly) a few times a day. If someone wanted I'll gladly query a single (or handful) charge point every 5 minutes and put some data together for a few months.

I'm not sure I'd worry about that, presumably querying every chargers status is what the app does. Checking every few minutes would be equivalent to someone sitting on the app all day

I wonder is there a 'get all available' api call that could be useful?

Black_Knight · 04-10-2020 4:15pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd worry about that, presumably querying every chargers status is what the app does. Checking every few minutes would be equivalent to someone sitting on the app all day

I wonder is there a 'get all available' api call that could be useful?

If I get time I'll take another look, or see what calls the app is making using Charles proxy or something.

Black_Knight · 04-10-2020 9:13pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

If I get time I'll take another look, or see what calls the app is making using Charles proxy or something.

Had a look. Got the data, just need to think about how to gather it so I can get the best out of it and visualise it

the_amazing_raisin · 05-10-2020 5:03pm

Well, just took the plunge and put down a deposit on the ID.4 1st Max
Decided not to risk the yellow in the end and went for the dark blue

Davy · 05-10-2020 5:13pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Well, just took the plunge and put down a deposit on the ID.4 1st Max
Decided not to risk the yellow in the end and went for the dark blue

Best of luck with it. Probably a good idea if you are set on it. They have sold out in the USA, and that's before MKBHD review is even out

05-10-2020 5:33pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Well, just took the plunge and put down a deposit on the ID.4 1st Max
Decided not to risk the yellow in the end and went for the dark blue

Well done, can't wait for some pics. PCP ?

cannco253 · 05-10-2020 5:50pm

What kind of deposit are Volkswagen.ie looking for - anything like the EUR 1,000 refundable reservation fee for the ID.3 ?

the_amazing_raisin · 05-10-2020 6:47pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well done, can't wait for some pics. PCP ?

Yeah, PCP with max deposit. It's still not in their finance system, nor is the series model ID.3, but they know the rates and everything so can work out the monthly payment by hand.

I've been told that changes can be made up to the point where the car starts being built. So I can downgrade to a base 1st in the next couple of weeks if the rates don't look good.

I'll be sure to post some pics before I cover the car in scratches

the_amazing_raisin · 05-10-2020 6:51pm

cannco253 wrote: »

What kind of deposit are Volkswagen.ie looking for - anything like the EUR 1,000 refundable reservation fee for the ID.3 ?

So it's build to order, so the deposit isn't refundable as VW are effectively building the car for me. This is basically the same as when all the ID.3 owners ordered their cars and transferred over their booking deposits

I brought up the topic with the salesman of what happens if I cancel and he said they'd try to sort something out where the deposit could be transferred to a new order or something.

the_amazing_raisin · 05-10-2020 6:53pm

Davy wrote: »

Best of luck with it. Probably a good idea if you are set on it. They have sold out in the USA, and that's before MKBHD review is even out

True, it's the car I definitely want, and it's in high demand, which is the absolute worst combination for my finances.

I think it sold out in a day in the US. To be fair, the allocation for the US was something like 1500 units, so quite easy to see how it sold out

catharsis · 05-10-2020 9:59pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Well, just took the plunge and put down a deposit on the ID.4 1st Max
Decided not to risk the yellow in the end and went for the dark blue

How did you do this - I registered on the VW website ages ago but have heard nothing back... did you deal direct with a dealer?

VW ID.4

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