VW ID.4

the_amazing_raisin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I found the ride on the 20 inch too firm on back roads, fun but I wouldn't like it all the time, 21 inch ? no way, unless I had Dynamic Chassis Control then it might be fine.

Thankfully the Max has DCC, I'll have it set to the rolling cruise ship setting

charlieIRL

I got a spin in a friends ID4 last night. Was very impressed by it. Lovely to drive and so much room in it.
They are getting some very impressive ranges with it - 400kms on midlands to Dublin motorway runs and not taking it too easy
570 when doing town spins

JohnnyJohnJohns

charlieIRL wrote: »

I got a spin in a friends ID4 last night. Was very impressed by it. Lovely to drive and so much room in it.
They are getting some very impressive ranges with it - 400kms on midlands to Dublin motorway runs and not taking it too easy
570 when doing town spins

I'd love to know how they're getting 570km out of the car. We do a lot of short spins and I reckon about 400km at most we'd get between full charges.

Black_Knight

JohnnyJohnJohns wrote: »

I'd love to know how they're getting 570km out of the car. We do a lot of short spins and I reckon about 400km at most we'd get between full charges.

Sounds like bs to me. Maybe the gom shows it, but they'd never get it. 13.5kWh/100km to do that!? Never happen.

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

Sounds like bs to me. Maybe the gom shows it, but they'd never get it. 13.5kWh/100km to do that!? Never happen.

Something like that which should be do-a-ble in warmer weather on slower roads.

18 Kwh/100 Kms would give around 427 Kms.

21 Kwh/100 Kms 366 Kms.

cannco253

Finally got to take a drive out to the Galway Plaza.

I was impressed with the ACC, worked really well on the motorway.

Arrived at the 150kW HPC at 64% soc after driving for about 30 minutes. The max power the car took in was around 41kW for each of the 11 minutes I was there, so in line with what I expected.

The CCS cable is very short, had to park in the middle of the 3 spots to be able to plug it in. All spots were free (HPC and FCP)

Black_Knight

cannco253 wrote: »

Finally got to take a drive out to the Galway Plaza.

I was impressed with the ACC, worked really well on the motorway.

Arrived at the 150kW HPC at 64% soc after driving for about 30 minutes. The max power the car took in was around 41kW for each of the 11 minutes I was there, so in line with what I expected.

The CCS cable is very short, had to park in the middle of the 3 spots to be able to plug it in. All spots were free (HPC and FCP)

41kW. Ugh! Less than impressive even with a cool battery and highish SOC. Not sure why they throttle so much. My old ioniq would take more at cold temps and high SOC.

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

Little update on charging. I noticed when I connect up evnotify the car, I assume, wakes up and starts charging again. Had to do it 2-3 times this morning to get the car charging again (pretty much a complete failure of a charge overnight). Thinking of setting evnotify up on an old phone and leaving it in the car overnight.

Not the biggest charge last night, but I left evnotify running in the car and the car, despite doing some reduced charging here and there charged from 60-80% without my intervention. I'll try it again, though likely not until next weekend

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

41kW. Ugh! Less than impressive even with a cool battery and highish SOC. Not sure why they throttle so much. My old ioniq would take more at cold temps and high SOC.

I'm hoping it's just VW being ultra conservative until they get an idea of battery degredation. Hopefully they'll loosen up the charging speed next year

slave1

Don’t expect anything better, EVs don’t like being rapid charged at 64% SOC, at that level of charge you should be continuing your trip and planning on charging when you hit the teens.

Black_Knight

slave1 wrote: »

Don’t expect anything better, EVs don’t like being rapid charged at 64% SOC, at that level of charge you should be continuing your trip and planning on charging when you hit the teens.

Need more 150kW units around the country so. Id4 will max out at 43kW from the 50kW units, so grabbing a (hopefully) faster charge when you can from a 150kW unit might be appealing.

Hypothetically, Dundalk to Limerick would be in range, but arriving with decent SOC for a return leg (or if you're going further afield) would be nice. The last HCP is portlaoise. After that your on SCP/destination chargers or the output limited and overstay ridden FCP units.

I'd say VW are being conservative when it comes to charging, though Cold will always be a limiting factor but in the case of the Ioniq, charging faster at this SOC it could be that the battery voltage was higher, volts x amps = watts.

It would be great to see vw allow the driver to preheat the battery for charging and have control over whether the battery heats or not because if it's heating when on battery it will consume more energy which isn't needed if someone is only doing short trips not intending to fast charge but if the battery is cold enough acceleration and regen will be limited and the battery might always try to heat the battery to give full acceleration and regen but would still be nice to see control of this in a menu with a description of what impact a cold battery will have and let the driver decide though I'd imagine VW will consider this far too technical, however, The Korean cars have something like this in the menu called winder mode or something like that with an explanation of what it does and it mentions something like optimising the battery for fast charging which it obviously doesn't as Bjorn has shown many times it's a hit and miss but mostly doesn't heat the battery enough for max charging current.

I can't wait to get mine to see what's going on, in theory the 800 volt Ioniq 5 should allow much faster cold battery charging because double the voltage you double the power for the same current so for example, 380 volts times 110 amps = 41 kw but 760 volts times 110 amps = 83.6 Kw it will be very interesting to see.

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

Need more 150kW units around the country so. Id4 will max out at 43kW from the 50kW units, so grabbing a (hopefully) faster charge when you can from a 150kW unit might be appealing.

Hypothetically, Dundalk to Limerick would be in range, but arriving with decent SOC for a return leg (or if you're going further afield) would be nice. The last HCP is portlaoise. After that your on SCP/destination chargers or the output limited and overstay ridden FCP units.

I really don't understand what's keeping the ESB from rolling out High Power charging hubs, I think it was a massive mistake for the ESB to get control of the Network, I think we should all approach our local TD's about this ?

cannco253

I guess that means we will see lots of Ioniq5 drivers at the Ionity chargers then....or will they be prepared to suck up the Ionity pricing for the faster charging speed?

I only went to the plaza to try the HPC out as was curious. 41kW isn’t great and I would have been better off using the 50kW charger beside it, but the temptation was too much! I should have tried both to see what the 50kW would have given me....there’s a reason for another spin out to it...

Silent Running

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say VW are being conservative when it comes to charging, though Cold will always be a limiting factor but in the case of the Ioniq, charging faster at this SOC it could be that the battery voltage was higher, volts x amps = watts.

It would be great to see vw allow the driver to preheat the battery for charging and have control over whether the battery heats or not because if it's heating when on battery it will consume more energy which isn't needed if someone is only doing short trips not intending to fast charge but if the battery is cold enough acceleration and regen will be limited and the battery might always try to heat the battery to give full acceleration and regen but would still be nice to see control of this in a menu with a description of what impact a cold battery will have and let the driver decide though I'd imagine VW will consider this far too technical, however, The Korean cars have something like this in the menu called winder mode or something like that with an explanation of what it does and it mentions something like optimising the battery for fast charging which it obviously doesn't as Bjorn has shown many times it's a hit and miss but mostly doesn't heat the battery enough for max charging current.

I can't wait to get mine to see what's going on, in theory the 800 volt Ioniq 5 should allow much faster cold battery charging because double the voltage you double the power for the same current so for example, 380 volts times 110 amps = 41 kw but 760 volts times 110 amps = 83.6 Kw it will be very interesting to see.

The battery heating thing is an interesting discussion.

In the e-Niro you could control it with Winter Mode, but I never used it. By the time I needed to rapid charge, I'd covered hundreds of kms on the motorway and the battery had no problem taking all the 50kW chargers could give. It might be different now with potential 125kW charging. I never used rapid charging on the e-Niro in Ireland. If I was on a long run In Ireland, I was normally staying somewhere I could charge overnight.

So, while it would be nice to have the choice to control the battery heater, I'd probably have it switched off all of the time.

the_amazing_raisin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I really don't understand what's keeping the ESB from rolling out High Power charging hubs, I think it was a massive mistake for the ESB to get control of the Network, I think we should all approach our local TD's about this ?

The problem with talking to TDs is that they're either in government, in which case they aren't going to say their own plan is garbage, or in opposition, in which case they're powerless

Still, it's worth a go, if we're all saying that public charging sucks and will still be terrible even if the ESB completes their upgrades in time, then eventually the message might get through

Here's what to expect charging the id.4 and id.3 77 Kwh @ optimal battery temp.

the_amazing_raisin

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

The problem with talking to TDs is that they're either in government, in which case they aren't going to say their own plan is garbage, or in opposition, in which case they're powerless

Still, it's worth a go, if we're all saying that public charging sucks and will still be terrible even if the ESB completes their upgrades in time, then eventually the message might get through

We have to start somewhere, that or talk to Jo, he loves a good O'l Anti EV debate.

What about the ESB FB page ? I don't have FB so can't check or comment, if People bombard them with messages ? they'll probably delete them.

cannco253

Deleted User wrote: »

Here's what to expect charging the id.4 and id.3 77 Kwh @ optimal battery temp.

Yep, already discussed on post 2449

slave1

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't wait to get mine to see what's going on, in theory the 800 volt Ioniq 5 should allow much faster cold battery charging because double the voltage you double the power for the same current so for example, 380 volts times 110 amps = 41 kw but 760 volts times 110 amps = 83.6 Kw it will be very interesting to see.

Still think the BMS will overrule if required, I rocked up to a Tesla supercharger for my first ever Supercharge and was sitting at 40 odd kW because I was on a high SOC (two hour drive, warm day so battery temp fine), I was on a 1000kms day trip so took the leap of faith and planned my next Supercharge at single digit SOC, boom 100kW+, had 4/5 supercharges that day and apart from the first one they were all very high supply because I played ball with SOC.

cannco253 wrote: »

I only went to the plaza to try the HPC out as was curious. 41kW isn’t great and I would have been better off using the 50kW charger beside it, but the temptation was too much! I should have tried both to see what the 50kW would have given me....there’s a reason for another spin out to it...

As above your BMS will overrule the charger, there would be very little in the two chargers with you arrive at high SOC, perhaps if you have high voltage batteries you may squeeze a bit more from the High Power but would be nothing significant and not an economical choice.

BMS will interveine when the battery is too hot, cold, SOC etc. But in normal cold battery charging conditions the battery itself is the limiting factor because it just can't take the current, too much internal resistance which is why the likes of Tesla heat it up. BMW only allow the i3 to heat the battery to 10 Deg C because this allows the internal resistance to decrease to the point the battery allows max acceleration and regen but still not good enough for max charging current on DC.

daheff

Silent Running wrote: »

The battery heating thing is an interesting discussion.

In the e-Niro you could control it with Winter Mode, but I never used it. By the time I needed to rapid charge, I'd covered hundreds of kms on the motorway and the battery had no problem taking all the 50kW chargers could give. It might be different now with potential 125kW charging. I never used rapid charging on the e-Niro in Ireland. If I was on a long run In Ireland, I was normally staying somewhere I could charge overnight.

So, while it would be nice to have the choice to control the battery heater, I'd probably have it switched off all of the time.

Which would you recommend e-Niro or ID4?

the_amazing_raisin

daheff wrote: »

Which would you recommend e-Niro or ID4?

It depends on what you need, the ID.4 is a bigger car with more space, similar to a Tiguan.

Although it has a bigger battery than the E-Niro, the loss of efficiency due to it being bigger will offset this, so range is roughly the same

The ID.4 can charge faster than the E-Niro, which is critical for long journeys IMO. Slower charging will cost you time at a recharge stop which loses the advantage of the long range

If you don't need the space of the ID.4 and you don't do a lot of long distance driving then the E-Niro will be fine. Another option is that bracket is the ID.3

baby fish

Is the ID4 52kwh battery suitable for daily motorway trip of about 100 km?
Will the 52kwh battery require charging every night for this trip?


Starting from 100% , what is a realistic km range on the motorway from this battery ?

80sDiesel

baby fish wrote: »

Is the ID4 52kwh battery suitable for daily motorway trip of about 100 km?
Will the 52kwh battery require charging every night for this trip?


Starting from 100% , what is a realistic km range on the motorway from this battery ?

343 Wltp. 20% less in winter and 20% motorway.
Combined worst case scenario = 205

the_amazing_raisin

baby fish wrote: »

Is the ID4 52kwh battery suitable for daily motorway trip of about 100 km?
Will the 52kwh battery require charging every night for this trip?


Starting from 100% , what is a realistic km range on the motorway from this battery ?

200-250km would be my estimate

Is your journey 100km each way or total. If it's total then you'll probably get away with charging every second day in summer

JohnnyJohnJohns

The scheduled charging really is a lottery. No charge at all last night so still on 20% this morning and now the app won't communicate with the car, I keep getting an error message.

When I plugged in last night at 20% it started charging immediately so I stopped it with the app because we're on night rate. I went to start it charging at around 11 last night in the app but got the same the error that I'm getting this morning. So still on 21% this morning which is a bit disappointing. Must get onto the dealer and report the issue.

Silent Running

daheff wrote: »

Which would you recommend e-Niro or ID4?

Pretty much what the Raisin said.

The e-Niro and ID.4 are a bit of a mis-match. The ID.3 is very similar in size to the e-Niro, but unless you go for the 77kWh ID.3 you will have a smaller battery.

If I was willing to pay a good bit more than the e-Niro price, I'd buy the ID.4. But for less money the e-Niro is a really good competitor. It has great and reliable range - I was able to regularly get above the WLTP range - and it has all of the gadgets that a base ID.4 will come with, plus the likes of a very effective lane follow, but the charging speed lets it down a bit.

The e-Niro V the ID.3 Tour is a close call, but for me, the ID.3 Tour wins because of it's faster charge rate, extra spec and more modern design.

Black_Knight

JohnnyJohnJohns wrote: »

The scheduled charging really is a lottery. No charge at all last night so still on 20% this morning and now the app won't communicate with the car, I keep getting an error message.

When I plugged in last night at 20% it started charging immediately so I stopped it with the app because we're on night rate. I went to start it charging at around 11 last night in the app but got the same the error that I'm getting this morning. So still on 21% this morning which is a bit disappointing. Must get onto the dealer and report the issue.

Did you see my post? By no means an extensive test, but it's my latest theory to test. Won't be charging until Saturday though, so little mid week driving to get the battery down.

Black_Knight wrote: »

Not the biggest charge last night, but I left evnotify running in the car and the car, despite doing some reduced charging here and there charged from 60-80% without my intervention. I'll try it again, though likely not until next weekend

Black_Knight

daheff wrote: »

Which would you recommend e-Niro or ID4?

Silent Running wrote: »

Pretty much what the Raisin said.

The e-Niro and ID.4 are a bit of a mis-match. The ID.3 is very similar in size to the e-Niro, but unless you go for the 77kWh ID.3 you will have a smaller battery.

If I was willing to pay a good bit more than the e-Niro price, I'd buy the ID.4. But for less money the e-Niro is a really good competitor. It has great and reliable range - I was able to regularly get above the WLTP range - and it has all of the gadgets that a base ID.4 will come with, plus the likes of a very effective lane follow, but the charging speed lets it down a bit.

The e-Niro V the ID.3 Tour is a close call, but for me, the ID.3 Tour wins because of it's faster charge rate, extra spec and more modern design.

Throw a 2nd hand eNiro into the mix (it's been around since 2019) and for me the eNiro wins based on the savings you'd get 2nd hand (assuming it's practical enough for your requirements - We looked at an eNiro be determined it'd be too small for us).