My landlord is refusing HAP, help?

DeeAvery

Hello,

When I found my property I told my landlord that I qualified for HAP. She said no problem, so I moved in.

So I got the forms and gave them to her.

She never had a HAP tenant before, only tenants with rent allowance so she thought it was the same thing. She said she doesn't want to go forward with HAP because of the potential inspection. She said she doesn't want another inspection as she had one recently and she wants to spend the money she has on doing up one of the rooms in the house and continuing to fulfil what she had to get done after her last DCC inspection. There is no work currently going on in the house, but that doesn't mean she doesn't genuinely have plans to do work on the house.

Any advice on how I could deal with this situation. Other than moving out?

Samuel T. Cogley

She has no choice she has to accept HAP. You can make a compliant. To who I'm not sure, is it the WRC that deals with this?

Gormal

Contact Threshold. She can't refuse HAP. The council don't charge for inspecting the property (as far as I know), they are just checking it meets the minimum rental standards.

Sounds like she hasn't done the work required from the last inspection, from what you've said.

DeeAvery

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

She has no choice she has to accept HAP. You can make a compliant. To who I'm not sure, is it the WRC that deals with this?

I'm aware I can make a complaint, but I want to try and do something before that and try and not sour my relationship with my new landlord. I hope it doesn't come to that.

Samuel T. Cogley

DeeAvery wrote: »

I'm aware I can make a complaint, but I want to try and do something before that and try and not sour my relationship with my new landlord. I hope it doesn't come to that.

Ask extra nicely?

Sonny noggs

Gormal wrote: »

Contact Threshold. She can't refuse HAP. The council don't charge for inspecting the property (as far as I know), they are just checking it meets the minimum rental standards.

Sounds like she hasn't done the work required from the last inspection, from what you've said.

The minimum HAP rental standards. Not the minimum rental standards.

Sonny noggs

Maybe the landlord doesn’t have a tax clearance certificate and can’t get one?

Prestonites

If she said she wont accept HAP your in for a claim.

noodler

Sonny noggs wrote: »

The minimum HAP rental standards. Not the minimum rental standards.

Is there two different sets?

DeeAvery

noodler wrote: »

Is there two different sets?

No there isn't, they are the same. Just theoretically you're guaranteed an inspection. She has actually done loads of work on the house she just wants to do more. I genuinely believe she doesn't realise she can't refuse HAP.

Samuel T. Cogley

DeeAvery wrote: »

No there isn't, they are the same. Just theoretically you're guaranteed an inspection. She has actually done loads of work on the house she just wants to do more. I genuinely believe she doesn't realise she can't refuse HAP.

Maybe pointing that out politely is the way to go. I don't really see any other option.

jwright118

All she had to do was keep quiet once she realised what hap entailed, let the potential inspection go ahead and say no to upgrading to their joke ott limits, for doing them a favour by housing someone on hap.

Alternatively, she could choose to not supply a tax clearance cert, prompting the rent to not be paid by the local authority, then issue rent arrears, then eviction proceedings. Why should she have to comply with higher standards than the minimum ones. Good luck with this one.

Del2005

DeeAvery wrote: »

No there isn't, they are the same. Just theoretically you're guaranteed an inspection. She has actually done loads of work on the house she just wants to do more. I genuinely believe she doesn't realise she can't refuse HAP.

They aren't the same. A HAP inspection requires the property to meet current building regulations, a rental property only has to comply with regulations from when it was built.

K.Flyer

There have been stories doing the rounds that some HAP inspections have gone as far as asking for windows to be changed and other expensive works way beyond the normal rental requirements. It maybe b.s. stories, but who knows, rental properties should still meet a habitable standard.
Other than that, the only information the landlord is required to furnish is proof of property ownership, a bank account, rtb registration, a tax clearance cert and that (preferably) the tenancy is for at least a year.
Given what your L.L. has said as to why they are reluctant to engage with HAP my suggestion is similar to another poster. Suggest that she return the completed forms and wait to see what, if anything, shows up at the inspection.
Failing that, if she is steadfast in refusing you should then go to Threshold or your local citizens advice centre for further advice.
From this point onwards keep all communication strictly by text or preferably by email as its much easier to refute verbal conversations.

Kermit.de.frog

....

sk8board

LL here, who has HAP tenants and actually just had an inspection last week. It’s not unduly comprehensive, it’s all pretty basic stuff. For example the tenant was asked if there was a fire blanket in advance and said to get one before the inspection (presumably because only few places have one and they are just helping speed up the process). I haven’t seen the report, albeit it’s a 15 year old house that I renovated extensively in q4 2014 so there aren’t any known defects as such.
The inspection doesn’t have a cost and the LL is merely informed about it - the inspection itself is organised with the tenant, the LL won’t be there.

One excuse for the LL I might throw out there, especially if she hasn’t had HAP before - the process for the LL themselves to be HAP compliant is very laborious and extremely comprehensive. An LL would need to have a very (very) clean nose from a tax perspective to qualify. There are 7 ‘proofs’ required, including things like:
- proof of property ownership
- proof of LPT up to date
- tax clearance certificate
- proof of RTB registration
- proof from the bank of account ownership
- Etc

You mentioned she only became unhappy to accept HAP when you sent her the forms.

redarmyblues

If the landlord does not have a tax clearance cert then they may not be able to receive HAP payments as mentioned above, I think you get up to 8k without one

KneonK

Neither here nor there by if she had a DCC inspection for a HAP tenant already in the property then there are a few logical problems with this.

If the 'LL already has gone through the HAP sign up process then most of the work from that side should already be done.

If it's a house share then the house is unlikely to be inspected within a year except to assess works needed after the initial inspection.

The inspection that has recently taken place should have brought the place up to standard anyway . Only things you need in a bedroom is a wall vent, a radiator and window restrictors if it is above ground floor.

KneonK

Del2005 wrote: »

They aren't the same. A HAP inspection requires the property to meet current building regulations, a rental property only has to comply with regulations from when it was built.

Thats pretty far from the truth actually. HAP inspection only asks for Standards for Rented Houses Regs 2019! Same as every rented house. Neither are inspected to building regs. That's serious misinformation and very misleading to tenants and landlords alike.
They may reflect some small parts of building regs (like window restrictors and vents), but HAP in no way requires building regs standards or retro fitting to that. The Inspector isn't going to make people put on downstairs wheelchair accessible toilets into ex corporation terrace houses.
Thousands of pre 63 flats are inspected a year alone. They are asked for minimum rental standards. It's why the NCR isn't an 8000 flat strong construction site

Cuddlesworth

KneonK wrote: »

Thats pretty far from the truth actually. HAP inspection only asks for Standards for Rented Houses Regs 2019! Same as every rented house. Neither are inspected to building regs. That's serious misinformation and very misleading to tenants and landlords alike.
They may reflect some small parts of building regs (like window restrictors and vents), but HAP in no way requires building regs standards or retro fitting to that. The Inspector isn't going to make people put on downstairs wheelchair accessible toilets into ex corporation terrace houses.
Thousands of pre 63 flats are inspected a year alone. They are asked for minimum rental standards. It's why the NCR isn't an 8000 flat strong construction site

When HAP was released, the original inspections went above and beyond that minimum rental standards. A lot of the problems now are the history of stupid reports combined with no real process to question current stupid reports. You have no choice but to follow the report, depending on how the inspector interpreted the guidelines.

Crunchie77

KneonK wrote: »

Thats pretty far from the truth actually. HAP inspection only asks for Standards for Rented Houses Regs 2019! Same as every rented house. Neither are inspected to building regs. That's serious misinformation and very misleading to tenants and landlords alike.
They may reflect some small parts of building regs (like window restrictors and vents), but HAP in no way requires building regs standards or retro fitting to that. The Inspector isn't going to make people put on downstairs wheelchair accessible toilets into ex corporation terrace houses.
Thousands of pre 63 flats are inspected a year alone. They are asked for minimum rental standards. It's why the NCR isn't an 8000 flat strong construction site

I have a different experience...just had a HAP inspection on my property and we have failed because the kitchen extractor fan does not vent to an external wall. This is how all the apartments are designed with the kitchen in the centre and I can’t rebuild it. Clearly the apartment met regulations when it was built but now they have said they will stop paying HAP as I can’t have an external vent. It’s frustrating as both myself and my tenant were happy with the situation and now it looks likely they’ll have to find somewhere else. I wouldn’t touch HAP with a barge pole next time.

Cuddlesworth

Crunchie77 wrote: »

I have a different experience...just had a HAP inspection on my property and we have failed because the kitchen extractor fan does not vent to an external wall. This is how all the apartments are designed with the kitchen in the centre and I can’t rebuild it. Clearly the apartment met regulations when it was built but now they have said they will stop paying HAP as I can’t have an external vent. It’s frustrating as both myself and my tenant were happy with the situation and now it looks likely they’ll have to find somewhere else. I wouldn’t touch HAP with a barge pole next time.

Like this one, in case anybody doesn't know, it's rare to find new houses or apartments that don't have charcoal filter extractor fans in kitchens that are internal only.

The regulation says

"Suitable facilities for the effective and safe removal of fumes to the external air by means of a cooker hood or extractor fan"

For shared kitchen/living rooms with external windows, why is a charcoal filter fume hood and a open window not "suitable facilities" for the effective and safe remove of fumes to external air. Where does it say direct mechanical ventilation is required?

And where do you go to call into question this stupidity? Inspector doesn't give a ****, council doesn't give a ****, department for housing doesn't give a ****.

ted1

sk8board wrote: »

There are 7 ‘proofs’ required, including things like:
- proof of property ownership
- proof of LPT up to date
- tax clearance certificate
- proof of RTB registration
- proof from the bank of account ownership
- s.

That’s a whole lot it GPDR issues. I’d like to see them questioned.

Baby01032012

As above there are so many hoops for landlord to jump through for the tenant to firstly get HAP and then when council get around to inspection it can be very costly. I had a recent inspection which pointed out 21 issues to be fixed in 4 weeks.

All ceilings replastered.
All window seals replaced
New window restrictiors even though no children in house
Replace kitchen and bathroom extractors.
Replace some windows
Retile kitchen
As well I had to replace most radiators with new energy efficient ones and with temperature controls on each, new hot water tank, new copper piping throughout house. That point alone is costing me 4000.

Dravokivich

ted1 wrote: »

That’s a whole lot it GPDR issues. I’d like to see them questioned.

No it isn't.

ted1

Dravokivich wrote: »

No it isn't.

Really ,
Why do they need to see proof of bank account? The minister of finance didn’t have a bank account. Why do they need a tax clearance cert? I’m jointly assessed, why would they need to see my wives tax cert for a property I own?

Has it being challenged or are you a GPDR expert?

ted1

Baby01032012 wrote: »

As above there are so many hoops for landlord to jump through for the tenant to firstly get HAP and then when council get around to inspection it can be very costly. I had a recent inspection which pointed out 21 issues to be fixed in 4 weeks.

All ceilings replastered.
All window seals replaced
New window restrictiors even though no children in house
Replace kitchen and bathroom extractors.
Replace some windows
Retile kitchen
As well I had to replace most radiators with new energy efficient ones and with temperature controls on each, new hot water tank, new copper piping throughout house. That point alone is costing me 4000.

Three of that list relate to windows. What type of windows are there ?
Did you tell them to take a hike ?

Cuddlesworth

ted1 wrote: »

Really ,
Why do they need to see proof of bank account? The minister of finance didn’t have a bank account. Why do they need a tax clearance cert? I’m jointly assessed, why would they need to see my wives tax cert for a property I own?

Has it being challenged or are you a GPDR expert?

You don't need to be a expert, it's a framework for data protection and collection. You seem to have this idea in your head that GDPR means nobody can ask you for any information, that's completely and totally wrong. They can ask you for whatever they want, as long as its legal, the purpose they are requesting it is clear, they are open if they are sharing it to other parties, how long they are keeping it for and if its stored securely.

ted1

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You don't need to be a expert, it's a framework for data protection and collection. You seem to have this idea in your head that GDPR means nobody can ask you for any information, that's completely and totally wrong. They can ask you for whatever they want, as long as its legal, the purpose they are requesting it is clear, they are open if they are sharing it to other parties, how long they are keeping it for and if its stored securely.

They have to explain it. But also explain how it falls within their remit.

Cuddlesworth

ted1 wrote: »

They have to explain it. But also explain how it falls within their remit.

Common sense applies too you know.

HAP is for leases, not licensees, so proof of ownership is required.
Bank statement to confirm payment of HAP will be to a account with the correct owner, in this case the landlord.
Tax clearance statement to receive government funding.

Old diesel

I'm increasingly convinced some of the inspectors are making up their own rules....

A regular dependable poster in this forum I recall had a friend/colleague who had to do a lot of wheelchair accessible related work to pass HAP.

Which seemed to be way beyond any building regs.

And then there's the reports you see of the inspectors telling you paint a certain colour.

Telling you put in a certain type of heater seems out of kilter too as are sealing and replacing windows etc.

I'd like to see two different inspectors inspect the one house - with one told he's doing a normal rental inspection - non HAP and the other told hes doing HAP.

And investigate any difference in findings.....