Race Around Ireland 2019

Lusk_Doyle

Team make a wish seem to have really slowed in the past few hours. They were yo-yoing with vcb for a lot of it and are a good bit behind now.

sullivlo

The two 8man teams have lost time too. Tough section ahead.

Harrybelafonte

Weather closing in too.

Matt Bianco

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

It's an incredible tough race, and probably very expensive

Any idea what ball park costs you would factor for a team entry as part of a club?

daragh_

Matt Bianco wrote: »

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

It's an incredible tough race, and probably very expensive

Any idea what ball park costs you would factor for a team entry as part of a club?

For a 4 Person Team? Entry is around €2700. On top of that you've got to cover the costs of a follow car, other vehicles for moving your crew and off duty riders around, as well as feeding everyone. And you'll need to factor in hiring race radios. It all mounts up pretty quickly.

sullivlo

It's also a major time commitment. Aside from the race itself, which is a full week off work (for you and your support), there's loads of training involved and lots of work required to get everyone up to speed on navigation, communication etc.

Dr_Colossus

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I was surprised too, but there is a definite lack of interest here for it and a decrease in the interest in cycling (IMHO) generally?

Don't think it's a lack of interest, more of a lack of awareness as absolutely nothing mentioned about it in the media. There should be a line or two mentioned in the news each day with an up update on progress. I've mentioned it to a good few people who would be interested in cycling and no one knew about it.
The dedication and fitness required to undertake such an event is staggering.

moonshadow

Constant dot watching here in the northeast with two club members really putting on an impressive show, leading the two man and ahead of some of the four man teams...serious quodos to Andy and Peter and the support crew from the white river wheelers in louth....it's not very nice heading to mizen head ATM.

greenspurs

is it done on time? or on finishing position?

MAke a wish are 10 k ahead of Balrothery, but they have spent 18mins more 'on track' ?


*EDIT - just noticed they are a 4 man team ….

daragh_

First two 8 man teams are done.

VCB way ahead of the pack in the 4 man teams. Heading into the home run now and one of the toughest sections. Mount Leinster and then across to Aughrim and all the Wicklow climbs.

Weepsie

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Don't think it's a lack of interest, more of a lack of awareness as absolutely nothing mentioned about it in the media. There should be a line or two mentioned in the news each day with an up update on progress. I've mentioned it to a good few people who would be interested in cycling and no one knew about it.
The dedication and fitness required to undertake such an event is staggering.

It's a fairly niche event in fairness and there are hundreds of niche events, sporting and otherwise, taking place around the country all the time. It's up to the organisers to promote it, not news for what might be limited interest. It's amazing that Nico and Sam get coverage, so this would be way, way down.

We've 3 athletes in the world Judo championships right now (actually think they've been eliminated. That's not going to get anything beyond a byline in a local paper for the athletes concerned.

trek climber

daragh_ wrote: »

For a 4 Person Team? Entry is around €2700. On top of that you've got to cover the costs of a follow car, other vehicles for moving your crew and off duty riders around, as well as feeding everyone. And you'll need to factor in hiring race radios. It all mounts up pretty quickly.

It is an expensive event to take part in - I was involved with a 4 man team in 2017 and as far as I can remember the total cost was approximately € 5000 plus for those working it meant keeping a weeks holidays for the event.

cython

trek climber wrote: »

It is an expensive event to take part in - I was involved with a 4 man team in 2017 and as far as I can remember the total cost was approximately € 5000 plus for those working it meant keeping a weeks holidays for the event.

Yup, entry alone is sizeable for teams especially:

Cost of Entry

Standard Registration
To secure this price the deposit at least must be paid at time of registration, with the balance paid in full by 31st March 2019
If this deadline is missed Late Registration Fee will apply
Irish Ultra Challenge – Solo Cost EUR 600
Race Around Ireland – Solo Cost EUR 900
2-Person Team – Race Around Ireland Cost EUR 1,800
4-Person Team – Race Around Ireland Cost EUR 2,700
8-Person Team Race Around Ireland Cost EUR 3,850

Late Registration
The deposit at least must be paid at time of registration.
This price applies if you miss the 31st March 2019 payment deadline or if you register after the 31st March 2019. If you register after the 31st March and pay the deposit, the balance must be paid in full by the 31st May 2019.
Irish Ultra Challenge – Solo Cost EUR 750
Race Around Ireland – Solo Cost EUR 1,125
2-Person Team – Race Around Ireland Cost EUR 2,125
4-Person Team – Race Around Ireland Cost EUR 3,250
8-Person Team Race Around Ireland Cost EUR 4,800

If there's something novel about the attempt you may be in with a shout of getting sponsorship for elements, and enough different ones (e.g. If you can get a vehicle sponsor it goes a long way) can help a lot but having crewed in the past for an 8 person, 2 person and an Ultra this year, and knowing those behind another 8 person and 4 person team, I've never heard of one even close to cost neutral.

RobFowl

greenspurs wrote: »

is it done on time? or on finishing position?

MAke a wish are 10 k ahead of Balrothery, but they have spent 18mins more 'on track' ?


*EDIT - just noticed they are a 4 man team ….

They were ahead but now 18kms behind.

VCB absolutely rocking the 4 man event.
Follow here if you like


https://twitter.com/VCBalrothery

magicbastarder

actually, i hadn't considered how the logistics would work in terms of numbers of riders from the team on the road at the same time - it's typically just one rider?

cython

magicbastarder wrote: »

actually, i hadn't considered how the logistics would work in terms of numbers of riders from the team on the road at the same time - it's typically just one rider?

Yes. Exceptions typically around the start and end (buzz of the start, and everyone sharing the finish), and rolling exchanges (very brief, like seconds). There's a plethora of rules preventing multiple riders from one team being on the road together for too long as well.

The run in from wicklow after the Lamb is fairly flat, so rather than having a bunch nearly TTTing in for a distance, the rules usually result in teams doing one last hard blast each before rolling in together

magicbastarder

any reason for that? obviously drafting might give some advantage, but it's an advantage available to all teams?

cython

magicbastarder wrote: »

any reason for that? obviously drafting might give some advantage, but it's an advantage available to all teams?

Logistics of having up to 8 people on open road with a follow car I'd imagine, especially as some of these have come down to very fine margins in recent years. And I can envisage other safety issue with the bits that pass through town if gunned too much.

EDIT: By the organisers' own admission the rules are largely adapted from RAAM, so it may well also be that this was copy/pasted from there and they just haven't wanted to look at the alternative.

daragh_

cython wrote: »

There's a plethora of rules preventing multiple riders from one team being on the road together for too long as well.

I'm not sure that's strictly accurate unless the rules have changed since 2017? We were told we could ride in any combination we wanted.

The last year I did it (2017) Team Aspect who beat us raced the first section as a 4 man TT. I could be wrong.

It was an excellent strategy that year as it maximised the advantage they had as first 4 man team away (less cars in front to leapfrog). We were last off.

That said they were the stronger team the road anyway.

daragh_

Personally in the 4 Man category I think the format of the race has flaws. It's essentially a Time Trial - no drafting of other teams etc. But in practice you can end up on narrow roads at night unable to get past a team who may be sitting behind you on the leaderboard. That definitely happened to us.

cython

daragh_ wrote: »

I'm not sure that's strictly accurate unless the rules have changed since 2017? We were told we could ride in any combination we wanted.

The last year I did it (2017) Team Aspect who beat us raced the first section as a 4 man TT. I could be wrong.

It was an excellent strategy that year as it maximised the advantage they had as first 4 man team away (less cars in front to leapfrog). We were last off.

That said they were the stronger team the road anyway.

No two riders may ride alongside each other for more than 15 mins in a 24hour period. Plethora is an exaggeration on rereading the rules just now, but it's still there.

11. Racers may ride alongside each otherfor 15minutes per 24 hour period, and nomore.
Example: Racer A rides with Racer B for 15 minutes. These two Racers cannot repeat this for a further
24 hours; Racer A, however, can ride with Racer C, D, E, or F etc. for 15 minutes within 24 hours, etc.

So if that first section took more than 15 mins, that should have been penalised.

And I think this is present since at least 2015 when I first crewed

daragh_

cython wrote: »

No two riders may ride alongside each other for more than 15 mins in a 24hour period. Plethora is an exaggeration on rereading the rules just now, but it's still there.


So if that first section took more than 15 mins, that should have been penalised.

And I think this is present since at least 2015 when I first crewed

I think that refers to riders from opposing teams.

cython

daragh_ wrote: »

Personally in the 4 Man category I think the format of the race has flaws. It's essentially a Time Trial - no drafting of other teams etc. But in practice you can end up on narrow roads at night unable to get past a team who may be sitting behind you on the leaderboard. That definitely happened to us.

The rules also state that teams being passed must pull to the left (not necessarily stop) to allow the pass. The passing rider can go first and use the headlights of the vehicle they are passing until they clear a lead, at which point their follow can come through. Alternatively, the follow being passed could pull in to get behind the passing follow, and let it act briefly for both riders, and then it just has to pass when the passing follow has pulled ahead enough that there is space.

We've done the former repeatedly, and there is an onus on the passee in the rules to facilitate the latter.

cython

daragh_ wrote: »

I think that refers to riders from opposing teams.

In the absence of that being explicitly stated, the definition of racer begs to differ IMO:

Racer– For the purposes of this document, a Racer may refer to a racing entity (team or solo) or an individual on a team. Racers are those on the official roster and eligible to participate in The Race and ride towards the finish line.

daragh_

cython wrote: »

The rules also state that teams being passed must pull to the left (not necessarily stop) to allow the pass. The passing rider can go first and use the headlights of the vehicle they are passing until they clear a lead, at which point their follow can come through. Alternatively, the follow being passed could pull in to get behind the passing follow, and let it act briefly for both riders, and then it just has to pass when the passing follow has pulled ahead enough that there is space.

We've done the former repeatedly, and there is an onus on the passee in the rules to facilitate the latter.

Yes - we would have done that and vice-versa where possible of the time. But there were sections (I'm thinking of coming out of Youghal in particular) where the roads were very narrow and with the best will in the world it's not possible to do that safely. In effect you end up riding at the speed of the team ahead of you who may be behind you on the leaderboard. That's a definite advantage to a team who may be up the road.

daragh_

cython wrote: »

In the absence of that being explicitly stated, the definition of racer begs to differ IMO:

No going to argue the point now but I can clarify with Alan Heary if you like.

Almost certain that's a rule change since 2017

benneca1

Rules clear within team drafting allowed one all or any combination in between can be on the road for a team. Only thing is changeover rules apply and you cant intorduce new members

DaithiMC

daragh_ wrote: »

No going to argue the point now but I can clarify with Alan Heary if you like.

Almost certain that's a rule change since 2017

I looked at both rule books for 2015 and last year (I'm sad enough to have them for the past four years!) and they are the same in this regard. In 2015 we specifically asked HQ could we put our four riders on the road to Mizen and they came back saying that was fine but.... "Why?"



Remembering what happened in 2017 with one four person team doing a TTT for the first few hours it actually can be a beneficial strategy. The rule is written to prevent two solo riders plotting to get an unfair advantage on other solos and the Solo RAI is the prime event in terms of being part of the World Ultracycling Association's calendar. It may be worded "literally" clumsily but the spirit is not to prevent teams from innovating strategies.



In terms of the team races, this is one of the kicks you can get from the event, i.e., devising tactics and testing them to see if there is an advantage but it needs to be done ahead of the event - every "change" we made to try to catch up or gain distance during the event, without testing it in training resulted in cock ups and even lost time!

Harrybelafonte

Meanwhile, while the bickering was going on, VCB won the Four-Person Team RAI.

TheBlaaMan

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Meanwhile, while the bickering was going on, VCB won the Four-Person Team RAI.

Great performance from the VCB team.

I was talking to the H8 Lawlors team as they came thru Waterford and it was interesting to see their strategy. I expect that they would do longish stretches and allow long rotations, but - if I understood it correctly - they configured themselves as 4 'pods' of two , with 3 of the pods resting while two riders rode, these two swapping in and out every 15-20 minutes in order to keep the tempo (and speed!) as high as possible. I'm not sure how often they were swapping out the 2 mans pods, but their 33kmph average was impressive based on this approach. I guess that with 8 man teams there are many options to play with in order to maximise the strategies.