What causes disadvantage

mariaalice

So a school principle was on RTE radio morning Ireland, saying that Tipperary town is a very disadvantaged area something like 20% unemployment for males and 30% for women. How does one area in a small country like Ireland end up like that?

Is it a geographical location issue?

Is it Historical?

Eric Cartman

an underinvestment in infrastructure creates an inability to attract modern industry creates a lack of jobs , vicious cycle.

Its why roads and broadband, fast track planning and electricity pylons are more important than ever to railroad in, ignore the objections and try save rural villages.

One eyed Jack

It’s a perception issue.

They’ve just beaten Kilkenny in the hurling All-Ireland final - nobody was complaining about being disadvantaged then. As for their unemployment figures, they aren’t at any more an advantage or a disadvantage than anywhere else in the country.

ancapailldorcha

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s a perception issue.

They’ve just beaten Kilkenny in the hurling All-Ireland final - nobody was complaining about being disadvantaged then. As for their unemployment figures, they aren’t at any more an advantage or a disadvantage than anywhere else in the country.

Well, a once-every-so-often sporting success story is hardly the basis for a sound economy.

Maybe this particular area isn't doing too badly but we're beginning to see a complete hollowing out of accessible jobs which offered decent wages such as manufacturing while better paid jobs tend to be concentrated in cities. I think investments such as better broadband might help people work from home more often which would help the environment and save time and money on commuting.

mariaalice

Unemployment is in or around 5% at the moment how come certain areas are such outliners in a small county like Ireland.

walshb

So many angles to look at. But in a nutshell, it is to do with the demographics of an area. Number of people and types of people...

mariaalice

walshb wrote: »

So many angles to look at. But in a nutshell, it is to do with the demographics of an area. Number of people and types of people...

So a small town can end up having a different population that the sourounding areas seems unlikely.

mcmoustache

mariaalice wrote: »

So a school principle was on RTE radio morning Ireland, saying that Tipperary town is a very disadvantaged area something like 20% unemployment for males and 30% for women. How does one area in a small country like Ireland end up like that?

Is it a geographical location issue?

Is it Historical?

There are feck all jobs there. The jobs are in the cities. That's the long and short of it. Eric has offered some useful solutions in his post that would help solve this problem.

Eric Cartman

Councils should do a deal for a 5 year break from corporate rates for any company employing more than 50 staff to open in a rural community. We need to attract businesses that have more than a handful of staff to these areas.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

mariaalice wrote: »

So a school principle was on RTE radio morning Ireland, saying that Tipperary town is a very disadvantaged area something like 20% unemployment for males and 30% for women. How does one area in a small country like Ireland end up like that?

Is it a geographical location issue?

Is it Historical?

I’m not sure about the historical bit. Parts of south Tipp seemed prosperous enough when I visited as a child. 30 odd years ago now.

It looks to me like the last recession wiped out the Irish midlands and didn’t really recover.

Lux23

Those with the get up and go tend to leave and get jobs elsewhere. Those that stay behind either have family commitments or they are handed a job in a family business. The rest aren't neccessarily lazy, but they don't have the drive to go and build themselves a career or to move to a bigger city with more oppourtunties. You will meet these people in every small town or rural location. Slackers.

Ulysses Gaze

mariaalice wrote: »

So a school principle was on RTE radio morning Ireland, saying that Tipperary town is a very disadvantaged area something like 20% unemployment for males and 30% for women. How does one area in a small country like Ireland end up like that?

Is it a geographical location issue?

Is it Historical?

Mindset

Overheal

Vantages.

LirW

mariaalice wrote: »

Unemployment is in or around 5% at the moment how come certain areas are such outliners in a small county like Ireland.

Geography comes into play with a healthy amount of inbreeding. I live in an area where a few villages and small towns are considered "disadvantaged". A lot has to do with location here. Dublin is too far away for a sustainable commute because it's 30 minutes to the closest motorway. The bigger surrounding towns don't provide enough low-skilled jobs and everyone who is educated leaves. If you're lucky enough to score work in Wexford town you consider moving but the south-east has little stability going for skilled people. Waterford is also too far away and while Kilkenny is reached within an hour, a lot of people don't bother driving that distance for a minimum wage because they are literally better off on social welfare.
The two "big" employers in the area are a meat processing plant and a plastic manufacturer. Not particularly attractive to anyone who trained in something.

So whoever stays has a crap hand dealt, many have family commitments or moving is too expensive. People with money don't move into villages but stay in the ribbon developments because it's more private. So you're left with a good percentage of the bottom that have issues, are tied to the area, are too cozy in their small world between the post office and the pub.

Thelonious Monk

One off housing. It has so much to answer for in Ireland, but that's how people wanna live so what you gonna do.

pinkyeye

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s a perception issue.

They’ve just beaten Kilkenny in the hurling All-Ireland final - nobody was complaining about being disadvantaged then. As for their unemployment figures, they aren’t at any more an advantage or a disadvantage than anywhere else in the country.

This has to be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on here.

Nowhere in the country is more at an advantage or disadvantage than anywhere else in the country in terms of unemployment????

Have you been on jobs.ie lately. If not, go on there and tell me how many jobs are advertised in Tipperary in comparison to elsewhere.

This view has to come from someone who has never lived outside their home town. :rolleyes:

odyssey06

Are there no 'disadvantaged' areas in Dublin?

Seems like the phenomenon of those with 'get up and go' fleeing an area can happen urban and rural.

Eric Cartman

odyssey06 wrote: »

Are there no 'disadvantaged' areas in Dublin?

Seems like the phenomenon of those with 'get up and go' fleeing an area can happen urban and rural.

theres a big difference between just not a lot of work around as with many small villages and massive intergenerational problems of drugs, violent crime and not wanting to work that you see in cities.

Always Tired

mariaalice wrote: »

Unemployment is in or around 5% at the moment how come certain areas are such outliners in a small county like Ireland.

Part of the problem is people hear this 'full employment' nonsense and then they think the unemployment problem is solved and it's forgotten about.

People hear 'we are at full employment' and then they figure anyone not in work has only themselves to blame. If you point out the actual stats in your area, show them the lack of jobs on job sites in the area, the lack of public transport, they shrug and go 'so move then.' Which isn't that simple for some.

I live in Donegal which was about 18% 2 years ago, would be much higher except all the young people in their 20s and 30s have emigrated. I've been on Jobpath twice, a total of 18 months and not one job referall. Not one. and i have a degree and experience. there's just no work besides takeaways and hotels and pubs, a few shops.

but people in work literally don't care about the unemployed, they have nothing but disdain for them and think they are all there by choice. but when you are in an unemployment black spot and can't afford a car because you are unemployed, can't afford to relocate bc you are unemployed or have family/mortgage commitments, you are in a major Catch 22.

One eyed Jack

pinkyeye wrote: »

This has to be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on here.

Nowhere in the country is more at an advantage or disadvantage than anywhere else in the country in terms of unemployment????

Have you been on jobs.ie lately. If not, go on there and tell me how many jobs are advertised in Tipperary in comparison to elsewhere.

This view has to come from someone who has never lived outside their home town. :rolleyes:

A school Principal from Tipp says Tipp is disadvantaged?

In other news, water is wet.

I don’t even have to have moved from beyond my home town to know what Tipp is like for employment. That’s precisely why I can say it’s no different than any other county in Ireland in terms of the advantages and disadvantages it poses for enterprise and employment.

Always Tired

One eyed Jack wrote: »

A school Principal from Tipp says Tipp is disadvantaged?

In other news, water is wet.

I don’t even have to have moved from beyond my home town to know what Tipp is like for employment. That’s precisely why I can say it’s no different than any other county in Ireland in terms of the advantages and disadvantages it poses for enterprise and employment.

You make no sense whatsoever.

One eyed Jack

Always Tired wrote: »

You make no sense whatsoever.

It’s fairly straightforward - someone looking for investment tries to make out that they deserve investment because some other county gets investment. Ignore all the obvious reasons why other counties get investment, and that statement is correct.

Nobody is going to invest in an area where they won’t see a return on their investment. That’s just bad business. It doesn’t mean any county is at a disadvantage or another county has an advantage, it simply means companies aren’t willing to invest in areas where they aren’t going to see a return on their investment.

splinter65

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s a perception issue.

They’ve just beaten Kilkenny in the hurling All-Ireland final - nobody was complaining about being disadvantaged then. As for their unemployment figures, they aren’t at any more an advantage or a disadvantage than anywhere else in the country.

Tipperary Town most definitely didn’t beat Kilkenny in the All Ireland. I don’t think there’s even a hurling club in Tipp Town.
Where did you get that idea?

splinter65

One eyed Jack wrote: »

A school Principal from Tipp says Tipp is disadvantaged?

In other news, water is wet.

I don’t even have to have moved from beyond my home town to know what Tipp is like for employment. That’s precisely why I can say it’s no different than any other county in Ireland in terms of the advantages and disadvantages it poses for enterprise and employment.

You think there’s equal employment opportunity in Dublin and Tipp Town? Is something wrong with you?

callaway92

splinter65 wrote: »

Tipperary Town most definitely didn’t beat Kilkenny in the All Ireland. I don’t think there’s even a hurling club in Tipp Town.
Where did you get that idea?

Arravale Rovers.

Pretty good too.

splinter65

callaway92 wrote: »

Arravale Rovers.

Pretty good too.

Arravale Rovers definitely didn’t win the All Ireland though. One Eyed Jack says they did. Are any of the Tipp team even playing for Arravale Rovers?

One eyed Jack

splinter65 wrote: »

Arravale Rovers definitely didn’t win the All Ireland though. One Eyed Jack says they did. Are any of the Tipp team even playing for Arravale Rovers?

I didn’t say Tipp town? I thought you were talking about Tipp county as a whole?

The Principal you’re talking about, were they honestly comparing Tipp town to Dublin City? Because there’s probably context there I’m not getting that they could even attempt to make such a comparison

BookNerd

IME too much reliance on one industry.
My home town relied on the local quarry and the local electricity plant for it's jobs.
During the boom there was mass immigration, full employment and plenty of money.
Then the arse fell out of the building trade and the electricity plant was shut down as it relied on unsustainable fuel.

Now the town is in a heap, massive amounts of unemployment, lots of businesses closing, houses sold on the cheap or left vacant and in disrepair. Mass influx of people buying houses to rent them out meaning the class of people living in the area has totally changed which has had a knock on effect on the reputation of the town and the local schools.......

People can't just up and leave because they have mortgages and houses. Younger people will go if they can but the fact the the schools are suffering means their educations and expectations just aren't as high.

It's a sad sight to see, what was once a bustling and busy town and a lovely place to live has turned into a bit of a kip......all in the space of about 20 years.

Meanwhile I live somewhere where there are various types of employment, the owners of the local business come together to push for improvements in infrastructure and amenities. This town struggled in the crash but not as much as other places and it rallied back quite quickly. The high employment means money in the town which means things like a new leisure center, plenty of fundraising for the schools, promotion of the arts, music is huge for kids here, schools have a great reputation and push the kids to achieve.....they grow up expecting to go to college and have a career. In my hometown most just aspire to get a job.

Two towns of similar size and population but they are worlds apart and I thank my lucky stars I ended up in one and not the other for my children's sake.

splinter65

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn’t say Tipp town? I thought you were talking about Tipp county as a whole?

The Principal you’re talking about, were they honestly comparing Tipp town to Dublin City? Because there’s probably context there I’m not getting that they could even attempt to make such a comparison

The principle said Tipp Town is a very disadvantaged area. Your immediate response was that they’ve just won the All Ireland so that’s clearly nonsense.
You clearly know nothing about Irish geography. Tipp Town is an actual urban area not just “ a town in Tipperary” as you seem to think. Tipperary is the largest inland county in Ireland which was large enough to be divided into 2 ridings until quite recently.
What you’ve said in effect is that as the Dublin football team have won 4 all Ireland’s in a row that this means that there are no impoverished areas in Dublin.
Your posts are cringe making. Even a cursory google of Tipp Town shows it to be near the top of economically disadvantaged urban areas in Ireland.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

A school Principal from Tipp says Tipp is disadvantaged?

In other news, water is wet.

I don’t even have to have moved from beyond my home town to know what Tipp is like for employment. That’s precisely why I can say it’s no different than any other county in Ireland in terms of the advantages and disadvantages it poses for enterprise and employment.

Regarding education, an area is classed as disadvantaged if a certain percentage of its catchment area are medical card holders. I would imagine that’s what the principal is referring to. If a school is in a disadvantaged area it gets support for book rental schemes, etc. If it’s not in a disadvantaged area and wants a book rental scheme, then it’s up to the school and parents to finance.

mariaalice

splinter65 wrote: »

The principle said Tipp Town is a very disadvantaged area. Your immediate response was that they’ve just won the All Ireland so that’s clearly nonsense.
You clearly know nothing about Irish geography. Tipp Town is an actual urban area not just “ a town in Tipperary” as you seem to think. Tipperary is the largest inland county in Ireland which was large enough to be divided into 2 ridings until quite recently.
What you’ve said in effect is that as the Dublin football team have won 4 all Ireland’s in a row that this means that there are no impoverished areas in Dublin.
Your posts are cringe making. Even a cursory google of Tipp Town shows it to be near the top of economically disadvantaged urban areas in Ireland.

That still dose not expalin why a medium to small town in Tipperary ended up as near the top of economically disadvantaged urban areas in Ireland. There has to be historical or other factors . There are lots of small to medium sized towns in Ireland.