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Vladimir Putin secures alliance with Turkey

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    #32
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Ex-KGB led is some kind of American trope. W Bush was ex CIA

    That’s wildly glossing over what the KGB was and is.


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    #33
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Soviet doctrine was to seek to rapidly occupy western Europe in the event of conventional war breaking out. The Warsaw Pact forces were significantly greater in number than NATO and were capable of assembling more quickly, though less diverse and technologically sophisticated. It seems like the Warsaw Pact would probably have won a conventional war in Europe.


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    #34
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    Overheal wrote: »
    That’s wildly glossing over what the KGB was and is.
    Is??
    The KGB hasn't been around since November 91.


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    #35
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    Ian Thundering Shrimp wrote: »
    Soviet doctrine was to seek to rapidly occupy western Europe in the event of conventional war breaking out. The Warsaw Pact forces were significantly greater in number than NATO and were capable of assembling more quickly, though less diverse and technologically sophisticated. It seems like the Warsaw Pact would probably have won a conventional war in Europe.

    There would have been a nuclear exchange. It was estimated that after the exchange Warsaw pact forces would have been at the Rhine in seven days and the channel in ten. Britain would have capitulated and accepted limited occupation in exchange for limited self governance under supervised administration.


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    #36
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Ian Thundering Shrimp wrote: »
    Soviet doctrine was to seek to rapidly occupy western Europe in the event of conventional war breaking out. The Warsaw Pact forces were significantly greater in number than NATO and were capable of assembling more quickly, though less diverse and technologically sophisticated. It seems like the Warsaw Pact would probably have won a conventional war in Europe.

    Yes they were deep into Europe. Central Europe really as Berlin is dead centre. All they had to do to get to the Atlantic was defeat west Germany and France. Without the deterrence of nuclear bombs they might have tried. Now Russia is 1,500 kilometres further east, poorer than Italy, and the panic is greater.


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    #37
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Overheal wrote: »
    That’s wildly glossing over what the KGB was and is.

    You need to look into the CIA and it’s pattern of destabilising the world. Arguably the Steele dossier was an attempted interference in the US, so they’ve probably interfered everywhere including the US.

    And while political prisoners do in fact die in Russia, Epstein didn’t kill himself.


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    #38
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,531 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    There would have been a nuclear exchange. It was estimated that after the exchange Warsaw pact forces would have been at the Rhine in seven days and the channel in ten. Britain would have capitulated and accepted limited occupation in exchange for limited self governance under supervised administration.

    Yeah, I'm going to say, no.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



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    #39
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Ian Thundering Shrimp wrote: »
    Soviet doctrine was to seek to rapidly occupy western Europe in the event of conventional war breaking out. The Warsaw Pact forces were significantly greater in number than NATO and were capable of assembling more quickly, though less diverse and technologically sophisticated. It seems like the Warsaw Pact would probably have won a conventional war in Europe.

    I think the opinions seem to depend on when.. most projections I've read about a war in the 80s have the WP getting hammered after they made their initial gains


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    #40
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Their plan for non-conventional war was not to directly attack Britain or France at all to avoid retaliatory nuclear strikes. They had a plan to move as far west as the Rhine with tactical nuclear strikes on major cities as a main component.

    The main reason capturing West Germany would have been decisive was because of NATO's policy of forward defence, which meant they would deploy as much 9f their forces as possible as far east as possible. This was to attempt to avoid massive civilian casualties that would have been involved in a gradual advance across the continent.

    There is no panic at all. Overall I think people are too complacent or apologistic regarding Russia as a threat. The concerns were far greater with the USSR. Gorbachev had policies of peace and openness which deescalated things substantially. The Eastern Bloc countries were able to have revolutions because he explicitly said there would not be a military response from the USSR if they did so. Compare that leader with Putin who has actively attacked European nations and escalated nuclear arms development. Not to mention major cyber attacks on the USA and the UK, or assassinations. He's extremely aggressive but highly reserved and calculating, which is a dangerous combination.


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    #41
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Ian Thundering Shrimp wrote: »
    Their plan for non-conventional war was not to directly attack Britain or France at all to avoid retaliatory nuclear strikes. They had a plan to move as far west as the Rhine with tactical nuclear strikes on major cities as a main component.

    The main reason capturing West Germany would have been decisive was because of NATO's policy of forward defence, which meant they would deploy as much 9f their forces as possible as far east as possible. This was to attempt to avoid massive civilian casualties that would have been involved in a gradual advance across the continent.

    There is no panic at all. Overall I think people are too complacent or apologistic regarding Russia as a threat. The concerns were far greater with the USSR. Gorbachev had policies of peace and openness which deescalated things substantially. The Eastern Bloc countries were able to have revolutions because he explicitly said there would not be a military response from the USSR if they did so. Compare that leader with Putin who has actively attacked European nations and escalated nuclear arms development. Not to mention major cyber attacks on the USA and the UK, or assassinations. He's extremely aggressive but highly reserved and calculating, which is a dangerous combination.

    Gorbachev was the end of the era. He also ran an empire that’s twice the size of Russia. The soviets assassinated dissidents all the time.


    Russia has been belligerent with regard to its near abroad where there are historical Russian enclaves. This is no threat to western Europe whatsoever.

    US belligerence is a threat to the stability of Europe.


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    #42
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Ian Thundering Shrimp wrote: »
    Soviet doctrine was to seek to rapidly occupy western Europe in the event of conventional war breaking out. The Warsaw Pact forces were significantly greater in number than NATO and were capable of assembling more quickly, though less diverse and technologically sophisticated. It seems like the Warsaw Pact would probably have won a conventional war in Europe.

    True but as a result, the Soviets expected things to quickly escalate to nuclear, western Europe had no other option?


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    #43
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    I also don't believe that Russia is a threat to Western Europe, it's military budget is dwarfed by that of the EU, never mind NATO, Russia is always on the mind of the usa however, they want all potential rivals weakened


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    #44
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    They interfered in the Brexit vote. Brexit is doing no favours for the prestige of the UK, and will do no favours for its economy or for ours. It is also destabilizing NI.

    Not sure why only Western Europe countries matter to you in any case. Russia belligerence towards their old enclaves is a big deal. Plenty of EU states were once behind the Iron Curtain and at least three of them were part of the USSR.


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    #45
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    Ian Thundering Shrimp wrote: »
    They interfered in the Brexit vote. Brexit is doing no favours for the prestige of the UK, and will do no favours for its economy or for ours. It is also destabilizing NI.

    I wish they would interfere here, maybe their omnipotence could get rid of the century old FFG revolving door. Seriously though, you think brexit is the work of Russia? Nothing at all to do with millions of disenfranchised brits ?


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    #46
    Limpy
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Limpy


    Ian Thundering Shrimp wrote: »
    They interfered in the Brexit vote. Brexit is doing no favours for the prestige of the UK, and will do no favours for its economy or for ours. It is also destabilizing NI.

    Not sure why only Western Europe countries matter to you in any case. Russia belligerence towards their old enclaves is a big deal. Plenty of EU states were once behind the Iron Curtain and at least three of them were part of the USSR.

    Not that long ago the yanks we're monitoring Merkals phone. Your brain washed by Western media to blame Russia for everything. Take off your blinkers.


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    #47
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    I wish they would interfere here, maybe their omnipotence could get rid of the century old FFG revolving door. Seriously though, you think brexit is the work of Russia? Nothing at all to do with millions of disenfranchised brits ?
    disenfranchised how? I'm related to multiple brexit voters and they're not disenfranchised, just buying into utter bull****.

    Not the work of Russia as you put it but it is a fact that they ran social media campaigns via fake accounts to promote it. It seems highly likely they financed it as well


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    #48
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Limpy wrote: »
    Not that long ago the yanks we're monitoring Merkals phone. Your brain washed by Western media to blame Russia for everything. Take off your blinkers.
    "fake news"?
    The USA spying on Europe is not relevant to Russian activity one way or another.


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    #49
    Limpy
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Limpy


    Ian Thundering Shrimp wrote: »
    "fake news"?
    The USA spying on Europe is not relevant to Russian activity one way or another.

    Not to the brain washed anyway.


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    #50
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    More related to Putin than Edogan - but earlier in the week, there was an explosion at a facility in Moscow which builds "defences against bacteriological and biological weapons". Luckily, the Kremlin was able to confirm that the explosion didn't cause any damage at all and everything was really quite excellent, thanks for asking.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49727101

    In completely unrelated news, the Kremlin announced yesterday that the US is working on variations of the Plague in order to create antibiotic-resistant biological weapons, including at facilities very close to Russian borders.

    https://tass.ru/politika/6911062 (in Russian)


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