rsa supporting e-scooters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/111107220#Comment_111107220

I was gonna buy a car next year.

bought an e-scooter earlier this year, car plans out the window. I cba. Just use that to get around the town where I live & the bus if I need to farther. the scooter folds away and under the luggage compartment of bus or on the train no problem.

I would agree 100% though that it’s unlikely anyone who already owns a car/can drive is going to use a scooter instead, but I have seen more than a few people who have fairly short commutes to work take their scooter rather than drive.

besides cutting down on emissions you’re saving a few quid on petrol/diesel & while it’s not exactly walking so I can’t imagine it’s any real exercise, it’s still getting out in the air every morning and that. Traffic hold ups are much less of an issue & good scooter can easily manage +30km/h but that does depend on the motors power + the weight of the rider (including any extras they might be carrying)

i have a Segway Ninebot Max & myself (about 80kg) as long as the wind isn’t blowing heavily towards me can top 31km on a 60%+ charge but most of the time in fairness it’s 25-28kmh but I know of ones that go as high as 80kmh, which really is stupid and dangerous but speed is nothing more than a model depending thing rather than an absolute thing that affects all scooters.

Imagine how much cheaper and lighter a Fiido type bike could be without chain, pedals, cartridge and shifters. They'd be legal under this legislation.

magicbastarder

is it possible that an actual form factor can be specified elsewhere? i didn't notice provision for that in the draft.

e.g. in the way (AFAIK) the minister for justice is able to add a new chemical to the banned substance list rather than needing to actually modify the primary legislation covering drugs.

petronius

As a commuting cyclist ( but also a motorist), I am not a big fan of e-scooters. I see Copenhagen (a great city for cycling in!) dropped their ban on them, so I fear I am against the tide on it! I am more tolerant of those switch bikes that are normal bikes with an additional bit of kit to propel you

They need regulation, their users need to know the rules of the road! indicating is NOT looking over your right shoulder! Helmets are a must! But something basic like the highway code or the driver theory test could be a basis for the 1st rung on the ladder to a driving licence and allow them to use the road.

I know you can say the same about bikes, but who is liable if you are hit by an e-scooter?

Macy0161

Thin end of the wedge if helmets and tests are mandatory. tbh I've had more near misses with pedestrians stepping out without looking/ treating a cycle lane as the place to actually look for vehicles, yet no tests for someone walking?

I'm not really aware of evidence that they are more dangerous than bikes to justify additional requirements.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084184#Comment_118084184

I can't figure out how to quote just part of a post with the new website, but I wanted to refer to your last sentence.

The person responsible of you're struck by an escooter is the same as the person responsible if you're struck by a bicycle, i.e. the person using the escooter/bike.

On a broader note, it seems that the problems people have with escooters are, in general, the things that are railed against when bikes are discussed

Henry Ford III

I can see the attraction of an e scooter. Ultra convenient personal transport and cheap to run too. They should reduce traffic congestion and are good for the environment also.

I'd have a few concerns though:-

1/. Potential for accidents - an e scooter hitting a pedestrian at 25kph will hurt. Who would be liable for any damages or personal injury?

2/. Over 16's only. That'll be next to impossible to police.

3/. E scooters are easily modified and doubling the top speed is pretty straightforward.

Interesting times.

Pedestrians shouldn't be on the road, and eScooters will not allowed on footpaths. That should reduce the potential for collisions, though the liability issue remains.

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084691#Comment_118084691

Yes but I can't see escooters keeping off footpaths tbh.

magicbastarder

point 1 applies to bikes already; fixing that would be a $50 solution to a $5 problem, i'd hazard.

LeeroyJ.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084680#Comment_118084680

2/. Over 16's only. That'll be next to impossible to police.

Just needs deterrent, in Germany you get a hefty fine and can be banned from obtaining a driving licence for up to 5 years

magicbastarder

for using a scooter under the age of 16? i assume you mean for other offences, otherwise that'd be a nonsensical punishment.

Rosahane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084691#Comment_118084691

Just back from walking the dog and witnessed a yob on an eBike going full tilt, prob 25 kph along on the opposite footpath to me in our estate. Tiny low wattage blinking front light, no back light dressed all in black with hoodie up. Estate is quite large with cul-de-sacs branching off at right angles. Lots of walkers with dogs on leads out usually and he shot across all the intersections without showing down.

Luckily he wasn't coming towards me as he might have hit the heavy walking stick I use 😡

The law isn't enacted yet!

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118086942#Comment_118086942

He didn't endanger anyone. He didn't affect anyone driving, cycling or walking. What exactly did he do wrong that justifies calling him a yob? From what I am reading, the only dangerous person in your story is you given your threat of violence!

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087965#Comment_118087965

Not OP here but I'll give it a go cycling on a footpath. Going pretty fast too. Poor lighting. Probably dark enough at the time too. Comes to a junction without slowing down.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118086942#Comment_118086942

did all the dogs have licences?

sorry, couldn't help, low shot and all that.

LeeroyJ.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118086942#Comment_118086942

Not entirely sure what these anecdotal examples are supposed to achieve, if we all weigh in on our experience with dangerous car drivers, cyclist, runners, dog owners, scooter riders and any other members of the public it won't contribute anything of substance to the conversation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084680#Comment_118084680

A 100kg man on an 8kg space-age pushbike is just as dangerous. There is no movement to demand insurance for them. In some ways the guy on the pushbike is more dangerous as they are loathe to lose momentum and take risks to keep what momentum they have.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088550#Comment_118088550

i resent that suggestion.

i'm only about 75KG.

As long as I don't come on this sub-forum demanding to see your road insurance I'm sure we won't fall out on this particular point.

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087965#Comment_118087965

Would you say the same of someone driving a car or a motorcycle at 25 kph on a footpath? If someone had walked out of their garden and been hit by him it could very well be fatal. I would call someone doing 25 kph on a footpath a yob and more.

cletus

I see we're playing the anecdote game. Fella reversed into the back of my car when I was parked yesterday, drove off without looking back. All car drivers are yobs and should be put off the road.

A bus driver buzzed me when I was on my bicycle, came so close I could touch the side of the bus with my elbow, without taking my hand off the handlebars. All bus drivers are yobs, and should be put off the road.

My wife was bitten by a dog when out for a run. All dog owners are yobs and should have their dogs impounded forthwith.

All the anecdotes above are just that, and don't add anything to the discussion about courteous driving, safe driving, or responsible dog ownership

Rosahane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087965#Comment_118087965

Since you obviously have comprehension difficulties I'll explain:

He was riding an electric bike on the footpath. This is illegal. There was a road with minimal and limited speed traffic alongside.

People walk around the corners on the foothpath from the cul-de-sacs. They don't expect a yob on an eBike to be speeding towards them.

He was an adult.

He was travelling at 25kph.

He had no effective lights.

He was wearing dark clothing.

It was dark.

He didn't slow down crossing the roads at the junctions of the cul-se-sacs while cutting across the space that a car exiting would use to stop to check nightlines to exit.

It was raining and he was travelling far too fast to stop in less than probably 25 metres.

...and I didn't threaten violence but given the width of the footpath and my requirement for space needed for both myself and the dog at heel he would have certainly been unable to pass without colliding with me. In that scenario the stick would have ben the first thing he met!

Rosahane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088111#Comment_118088111

Not as low as our low slung Malshi 😁

Rosahane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089192#Comment_118089192

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089192#Comment_118089192

Hmmm... Were you schooled by the Jesuits 😉

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090273#Comment_118090273

I wasn't, but I would like to have been. Lovely grasp of logic, them Jesuits had

Macy0161

Dressed in black, no effective lights, and it was dark, yet still visible enough to be able to witness a string of wrong doing...

I don't think anyone would defend the behaviour, but could just as easily be doing that speed on a non-ebike, a push scooter, skateboard, rollerblades, even sprinting (and the latter 3 wouldn't even be barred from the pavement!). You're associating the behaviour with travel mode, when it's irrelevant.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084744#Comment_118084744

They don’t, and there won’t be much of a will to police them... it will take somebody getting seriously injured in conjunction with an absolute spate of pedestrians getting minor injuries before anything is done...

i see daily shitloads of these knuckleheads doing about 10-15 kmh along the path on Collins Avenue in Dublin around DCU.

Markcheese

Honestly , I'd have no prob with a Garda being able to impound a bike / e-bike / scooter in those scenarios - of course there'd have to be a Garda present to do so but that's the same with all policing