rsa supporting e-scooters

DaveyDave

I know a scooter isn't ideal for longer journeys but Jesus 13km is feck all for a return trip and you'd be charging every single day too, seems like a pain in the arse.

magicbastarder

it comes with refglectors though.

i suspect the stated range is based on a 100KG pilot (what do we call someone who uses one? a rider?)

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208836#Comment_118208836

I would hope (but not expect) light requirements would be updated for bicycles too. Talk of the regulations earlier - not too many decent led bike lights meet the lens requirements of the current legislation.

tomasrojo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209613#Comment_118209613

Yeah, they're overdue a rewrite. I think they're about sixty years old now. Lot of changes in lighting technology in that time.

buffalo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209464#Comment_118209464

Scooterer.

jc bamford

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218092#Comment_118218092

Scootavater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209464#Comment_118209464

A gimp.

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209464#Comment_118209464

Scooteur/scooteuse.

magicbastarder

why are all scooters black? i know there's not much room for manouevre with the design, but one looks the same as the other from a short distance away, how come no-one is trying anything interesting with the design?

this was prompted by having seen a chap on a bright green one yesterday - i can't be certain, but i think it was a rattlecan job. at least it'd be easier to spot or describe to the gardai if it was stolen.

inigo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140468#Comment_118140468

Carrera Impel IS-1?

It's going to be a long wait for the legislation to be enacted. It has passed stage 2 of 11! 😱

Road Traffic and Roads Bill 2021

Varik

Was reading some of the debates, pretty sure when this is all over all it'll mean is that people using them are breaking slightly more specific laws when they use them and that's all.

A few TD wanting the rentals to be required to be offered to their bit of ireland rather than just Dublin, ignoring the fact that any rental system will be decided street by street not something that would ever be offered across the entirety of dublin.

At least for the scooters, they're unlikely to **** up the legislation for the bikes.

Joe1919

Hi. There is an important quote from Deputy Brian Leddin during the debates which I hope will clarify the issue of power ratings for some and I hope will be reflected in the legislation.

"I will make a small point about the power rating for electric bikes. There has been some confusion between peak and continuous power ratings, especially for cargo bikes. To clarify, many e-bikes and e-cargo bikes are advertised with their peak power rating, which can be 600 W, 700 W or 800 W. That number is simply the maximum instantaneous power that the battery, electrical system and motor can output on its power curve. I want to highlight that the legislation refers to continuous power, not peak power. The continuous power is the maximum power that can be outputted consistently and safely without overheating. The majority of e-bikes sold in the EU are within this limit of 250 W continuous power even if they are advertised with a peak power that is higher than this. The confusion is unfortunate but I particularly want to reassure people who have already bought e-bikes that conform to EU regulations that this legislation merely restates those power regulations."

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2021-11-18/30/

magicbastarder

funny enough, i was watching a video about bandsaws last night, where they go into this - it's referred to as S1 power and S2 power. S1 is continuous power capacity, i.e. what the motor should be able to put out indefinitely, without overheating, and S2 is short-time duty, i.e. it can generate that power but would overheat if left running like that for more than say 15 minutes.

inigo

I am confused now. When I see Motor Power or Power Output on a website, what are they referring to? S1 or S2? Maximum or continuous?

magicbastarder

depends!

there's nothing to stop someone stating the S2 power without stipulating it's S2 they're talking about - for example, in the video i watched about bandsaws, he reviewed two, one where it was advertised as being 350W, the other as 250W - but the motors were identical in their power. one manufacturer put the S2 value on the packaging (but the sticker on the motor itself was more revealing) and the second manufacturer put the S1 value on the packaging.

Joe1919

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324005#Comment_118324005

It can be hard to tell and often needs some researching. For example, the Carrera impel is-1 is rated at 350w but its controller is rated as 15amps at 36volts = 540w electrical input power at nominal battery voltage but could be higher when battery is fully charged . But the website does not mention this and you have to inspect the controller or look at the spare part in this case to see this on the controller label. There is also the additional complication that power output refers to mechanical power measured at the wheel. I would be inclined to think (at say 80% motor efficiency), that this particular scooter is rated at 350w continuous but could has peak power output (measured at the wheel) when battery fully charged (42volt) of over 450w.

I would think the ideal (to be fully legal) is to have a scooter (or ebike) rated and labeled at 250w, but with a peak power output much greater than this.

https://www.halfords.ie/cycling/scooters/electric-scooter-spares/carrera-impel-is-1-electric-scooter-controller-451902.html

DaveyDave

I wasn't even aware of peak power until I was reading reviews before ordering my ebike. I wonder if any manufacturers are generous with the peak power or what the rules are around it?

magicbastarder

https://m.independent.ie/business/technology/government-to-delay-introduction-of-escooter-regulation-41531016.html

inigo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896748#Comment_118896748

It beggars belief!

magicbastarder

one of the stated goals of the greens too was to update and unify all road traffic law; not sure if that's been delayed too. maybe that's why the above law has been delayed.

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955440#Comment_118955440

Not if you read the debates they've on it.

Pearl clutching stuff from some of them about the youths, and then reiterating stories they've heard from constituents about mrs murphy and her special needs child getting a fright from one or mauled in a 16 scooter pile up.

Then others demanding that rental schemes be somehow forced to operate across the country and not limited to Dublin, ignoring the fact that even most of Dublin city also won't get them as it's going to be based around certain areas and along routes.

Henry Ford III

I can see the benefits of e-scooters but I'm concerned about their basic road safety and what a large number of users might do.

The area is wide open - for example you can't easily see the difference between a scooter that'll not exceed the stated speed limit, and one that will. Furthermore performance modification is easy too.

The other big concern is rider behaviour. I can imagine these machines on footpaths and they will inevitably be involved with collisions with pedestrians.

magicbastarder

I can imagine these machines on footpaths

the benefit here would be that if gardai did start to police use of scooters on footpaths, they might actually be shamed into policing other machines on footpaths, i.e. cars.

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955707#Comment_118955707

I've yet to see a car driving on a footpath.

magicbastarder

i see cars on footpaths all the time. my presumption is they were driven there. but yes, i was referring to cars parked on footpaths, which is illegal, but which the gardai turn a completely blind eye to. as mentioned, my hope would be that if the gardai did clamp down on scooters on footpaths, it'd highlight the hypocrisy of seeing a scooter on a footpath as an issue, but not a car blocking it.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955754#Comment_118955754

Must be a hell of a lot of hover cars that can park two (or four) wheels up on the footpath without driving on them!

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955669#Comment_118955669

It's essentially just legalising what's there now - the law needs to catch up as a significant proportion of the population, and Gardai, are just ignoring they're illegal. I'm not aware of stats, rather than anecdotes, of many collisions. Same as non-pedal assist ebikes, which would also be legal under the PPT definition.

Henry Ford III

What happens when a PPT hits a pedestrian on a footpath for example? If there's injury or loss who is liable?

magicbastarder

whoever is to blame, but i suspect in most circumstances as the scooter is legally not allowed on the footpath, the scooterist would have a hard time convincing anyone they were in the right.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956045#Comment_118956045

What happens now? You're talking as if they aren't already being used by 100's (perhaps 1000's) of people, as are ebikes that aren't legal as they're not pedelecs. I'd say you'd have to be doing something serious, or fail the "don't be a dick to a gard" test to have any issues despite them being illegal.