rsa supporting e-scooters

magicbastarder

A quick Google suggested a beginner cyclist can put out 75 to 100W. At the top end of that, a 250W motor is still resulting in a total power output three and a half times what they'd manage on their own. So it should be plenty.

Silverdream

The watts V Torque as a measurement is interesting. So is it possible for two motors of the same watts can output totally different torque outputs?

magicbastarder

very roughly speaking (and this is barely remembered physics lessons), torque will determine how fast you accelerate, power will determine how fast you can go.

e.g. a sports car uses high torque to accelerate, but it's power which means it can drive at a high speed.

traco

To reuse a quote from a different transport sector:

"Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you move it"

CJhaughey

As with most things it depends, some hub motors are direct drive, some are geared and some are multi geared with Roloff or Enviolo hub shifters and a Mid drive motor running through a belt drive setup (high end stuff like Reise and Muller) the torque from these is astounding and makes the cargo bikes they sell very able to shift large and heavy objects.

gn3dr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431583#Comment_119431583

There would surely be an argument here that if someone is overweight, then a motor bigger than 250W is not going to help them from a health perspective 🙄

traco

I was driving back fron Howth the other evening, two lads on an e-scooter with slightly bigger wheels but no massive. Saw them in the village and they took off towards Sutton. Couldn't catch them, traffic moving around 40-50kph. They must have been hitting 45 in places with two lads (late teens or early 20's) so not kids. They thing was flying and definitely not 250W. Braver than me with wheels that small.

magicbastarder

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2022/08/16/nearly-1400-e-scooter-traffic-incidents-logged-in-last-2-years/

That's less than one a day, lower than I'd have expected.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479389#Comment_119479389

But that's at a time when they are technically illegal and there are few of them. What kind of numbers will we get when they are properly regulated and there are far more of them?

magicbastarder

I don't think you could say there are currently 'few' of them, tbf.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479416#Comment_119479416

In comparison with other forms there are few of them and you'd expect quite a surge once the regulations are sorted out and in place. I've nothing against them being used but there are some very zippy ones out there, which is problematic, and some road behaviour that is little more than spur of the moment reaction. Ultimately there may be issues for pedestrians.

Macy0161

I think you're making a leap that the incidents/ collisions were all the fault of the person on the escooter, and there's no breakdown of those involving pedestrians. We have no idea from the data as reported.

We also can't really extrapolate on seisures - how many would be legal (or not) under the regulations; how many were for general anti-social behaviour where those involved had scooters; how many were as a result of failure to pass the "dont be a dick to a garda" test.

Like, it's typical Irish journalism, but not really the basis to draw any proper conclusions.

JMcL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479389#Comment_119479389

According to another Times article linked from that one (https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/08/10/two-deaths-and-42-serious-injuries-caused-by-collisions-involving-e-scooters-since-start-of-2020/) there've been 2 deaths and 42 "serious" injuries in the same period related to scooters. There are of course caveats in that the data came from AGS, and there was a discussion elsewhere in the forum about the statistical quality of same. Also it comes with a warning about the usual bemoaning in the article on lack of helmet use despite most of the injuries seeming to be fractures. Not sure how these numbers would stack up against comparable statistics for bikes were they to be scaled, though I suspect that

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119425394#Comment_119425394

According to the article MB posted, there've been 269 seizure since early 2020 - mostly around Dublin, I'd imagine to get seized you'd have to be taking the mick really, but in the legislative vacuum you're always at the (probably small) risk of running foul of some Guard that got out of the wrong side of the bed that morning

Tigerandahalf

Apologies if asked before.

Was looking at the xiaomi mi pro2 scooter.

What do people think about it being non waterproof? It seems a major drawback given the chance of being caught in rain.

Thanks

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479932#Comment_119479932

Anecdotally some of those reporting they had scooters seized were just commuting. I think they just unlucky to get caught in temporary surge of interest from Garda. Usually in one location.

The stats on normal cycling fines seem to suggest similar.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480025#Comment_119480025

I believe that they are "somewhat water resistant" but not waterproof.

To me this means that they won't last long in an Irish autumn or winter.

If you got one, can you afford to replace it?

Tigerandahalf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480350#Comment_119480350

It makes me wonder. A lot of these are designed for drier climates like southern Europe but they also get rain there and given that these are often parked outside rain ingress must be an issue. I don't really understand why something like that wouldn't be made fully waterproof.

Looking at the scooters I am not sure where the rain would get in - the display on the handle maybe?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479689#Comment_119479689

There are no regulations so other laws are being used legally, probably as the mood suits Gardai. I wouldn't get onto the blame no blame analysis of incidents as it's really how many is the key data to get a sense of what levels there might be once there are regulations and there are a lot more of them.

lalababa

You'll have to bate the car drivers out with a nailed stick to reduce congestion/pollution. So tis looking like a congestion charge, and should be a higher charge for single occupancy.

Public transport ..for this country read bus. Should be upgraded (so it actually works and is pleasant) and should be free....for awhile.

250w pedal assist (15mph) is grand for anyone doing anything. Small foldable electric bikes are grand . Electric scooters are illegal and this should be enforced. They have crappy wheels and are unstable.

So saythed me the great.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483786#Comment_119483786

Any/ all could (should?) be seized at the moment as they are illegal. It's just another traffic law not enforced. I still don't really see how we can extrapolate at the moment without more detail. Will some being legal mean more uptake, and more awareness, and a critical mass that makes them safer? We don't know

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483980#Comment_119483980

Seizures seem to be at the whim of Gardai IMO. Met someone recently who was upset to have had the scooter confiscated but language barrier didn't clear up why.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484035#Comment_119484035

Totally. And I'd guess that a fair amount are around other anti-social behaviour (eg gang of teens hanging around causing other issues) rather than randomers commuting/ going about their daily lives.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484162#Comment_119484162

Always find it amusing that gangs is used so much when teenagers are mentioned,

But you wouldn't use it in relation to basically any other groups, "I met a gang of women on the street lastnight".

keane2097

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484451#Comment_119484451

Anti-social behaviour typically meaning teenagers socialising anywhere they're legally allowed to be also.

Macy0161

It can also mean vandalism, intimidation, and hanging around places they shouldn't. But I would say the main bottom line is you wouldn't be confiscated if you didn't fail the don't be a dick to a garda test tbh.

btw I'd use it in wider context than just teenagers. "Who was on the spin?" Me: "all the usual gang"

inigo

Can I ask a technical question here?

The new Halfords scooters are out now, including version 2.0 of the model I've got. One of the main differences is that the new version has cruise control.

Does anyone know which part controls it? Throttle, controller, both, none?

It would change my life if I could adapt mine. My hand gets numb every time I ride it.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431740#Comment_119431740

It should be but is isn't. I recently bought a very premium 250W e-scooter (claimed) that also claims to boost to 500W, and it won't go up a moderately steep hill at any speed. By which I mean it stops.

Based on my experience there is no legal e-scooter which is usable except on flat terrain.

magicbastarder

worth noting that my comment about power was in relation to bikes, not scooters.

it should be straightforward enough to calculate the power required to go uphill, though? perhaps there's an issue with the motor.

e.g. take a climb 2km long with an elevation gain of 100m (5% gradient); to do that at 15km/h would take 8 minutes, and assume a combined scooter and rider weight of 100kg.

total potential energy gain is - as near as makes no difference - 100kJ. so that would require a power of 208W for the potential energy aspect; so 250W should be enough for that, which is a steep climb?

TL;DR - 250W should be enough for a 5% gradient.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119504123#Comment_119504123

I guess the issue is lack of torque, if that power is made only at an unsustainable speed. The scooter will do 25-30kph on the flat.

Varik

Gravity would be exerting ~50N for 5%, ~100N for 10%, and ~150N for 15% for 100kg rider+scooter. How much torque acting on motor for it to counter that is dependant on the wheel size.

So whatever your wheel size radius is in meters by those is what min torque you'd need to even move.

For 220mm wheel that'd be about ~5.5Nm, ~11Nm, ~16Nm. 16Nm is what's rated on the 250W sustained 500W max scooter I've seen.