Moving to Dublin - Crazy idea?

theguzman

This is something I am asking as my younger brother is seriously entertaining the idea of moving to Dublin soon and I am trying to find information about his welfare entitlements if he was to go.

Background on him: He is early thirties and never worked one day in his life bar a 2 month stint in a hotel where he was chasing some girl at the time around 14 years ago. He left school with no qualifications and was diagnosed with Aspergers and has been on disability ever since. My brother is one of the smartest people you will ever meet but is a loner and zero social skills and approaches everything differently to the rest of us. He has a crazy memory skills but never qualified from school or did anything and can be lazy. I would be worried about him in Dublin as he can be argumentative also.

Anyway this year he found himself a girlfriend living in Dublin from a non-EU country, I was originally skeptical of her motivations and was thinking she probably was after a marriage visa but I have seen enormous socialisation improvements in him, imagine Sheldon in Big Bang Theory type of a situation lol. So I am happy for him and her.

So this girl lives in an effective bedsit with other migrant workers and her situation there is pretty grim, I helped him buy her and lift up the bed there recently. He is thinking to move to Dublin soon and to rent a studio somewhere in the city with her. He thinks he can get the state to pay alot of the rent if they move in together and reckons he can manage all of this. My brother wouldn't have alot of money by any means bar disability.

Should I try talk him out of it or encourage it, he currently lives in his own house owned by my mother as he has lived there after my grandmother died and left no will, two aunts were pushing for a share but my own mother managed to fight their attempts off and eventually she got ownership of it and won possession.

My brother gets Disability Allowance but gets no housing payment etc since he a free house to live in, to move to Dublin he would need to draw HAP or RAS, he says he will work 20 hours a week under Disability and keep his money. His GF pays €125 per week for a bunkbed and she will contribute this much per month and he would get RAS or HAP in his name.

I think it a bit messed up but any input would be good.

fritzelly

I would hazard a guess he will be home before you know it
Finding accommodation in Dublin is crazy
Regardless the HAP or rent allowance he gets he will be paying some rent out of his allowance so immediately worse off then add in the cost of living in Dublin
Is the "girlfriend" working - you seem to indicate so - so co living is really gonna screw up what rent allowance the two of them get plus any other disability benefits he gets like fuel allowance etc

Caranica

1. His chances of finding HAP accommodation anywhere near Dublin are nil to non existent.

2. Studios have almost entirely vanished from the housing market.

3. To get HAP you have to have a housing need and get on a housing list. Without a job he has no housing need in Dublin and he his housing needs are being met at home.

4. He's effectively trying to screw the system. The taxpayer should not fund a home for someone who has one.

Purple Mountain

If I were you, I'd post this in the thread that deals with welfare also.

afkasurfjunkie

Why doesn’t the girlfriend move down and live with your brother?

El Tarangu

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

Why doesn’t the girlfriend move down and live with your brother?

+1

He has no job, nor prospect of a job, but does have a house.

The girlfriend is in a crappy living situation; surely she would be able to find some class of a job in your home place? Even if it wasn't very well-paid, she would probably be in a better situation financially, given that she wouldn't have to worry about rent.

TheSheriff

This is not a good idea, mostly because its welfare fraud.....

theguzman

The reason for moving to Dublin is for his new GF who is studying the English language in Dublin and is from Mexico, apparently she gets some sort of visa for 8 or 9 months and she can study and work also. She works full time in Dublin and this is his motivation to go be with her, this visa ends in December and I'm sort of worried also that she is trying to take advantage of my brother to get married for to go down the citizenship route. I would say this is his first true relationship ever in his life.

He is literally OCD about cleanliness so would probably make a good tenant. I stayed over in his house earlier this year and my trainers were quiet dirty and when I woke up in the morning he had them cleaned completely except I then had wet footwear until I went home. It's just the traits of his personality condition really.

He has an idea that since himself has this Disablement Psychiatric condition and his girlfriend is a foreigner that he will get special attention and might even get social housing. This I am skeptical of however, although stranger things happen. Committing welfare fraud wouldn't be something he would do I think since he doesn't seem to know how to lie at all, which has been a drawback in his life also.

fritzelly

She won't get citizenship that easy. Unless she gets a visa for something more than a language course she will be turfed out after a coupla years which screws up any chance of citizenship through marriage due to it's requirements

Bicyclette

Mum of an adult Aspie here.

I don't know your brother, and I know that if you meet one Aspie, you have just met one Aspie. Because each person is different. However I have major reservations about this.

1. Your brother says he is going to work 20 hours a week. If he has never held down a job, has no skills and no qualifications, and has poor communication skills, how is he going to get a job? My suggestion would be to suggest he look for a job at home first then consider moving to Dublin.

2. What happens when the relationship breaks down?

3. Or when the girlfriend moves other friends into their shared house? Will he have the skills to deal with people taking advantage of him?

There are English language schools all over the country and there are people working and studying in them. If this relationship is serious, then the girl needs to make some form of commitment as well.

Caranica

theguzman wrote: »

He has an idea that since himself has this Disablement Psychiatric condition and his girlfriend is a foreigner that he will get special attention and might even get social housing. This I am skeptical of however, although stranger things happen. Committing welfare fraud wouldn't be something he would do I think since he doesn't seem to know how to lie at all, which has been a drawback in his life also.

Not a hope in hell of social housing. We have people with psychiatric conditions on the streets, in hostels and languishing on the housing list. Your brother sounds as if he's divorced from reality, not one clue has he.

They have no housing need, she has accommodation and so has he. They are entitled to zero housing supports. Your brother needs to cop on.

Officials are very wise to sham marriages too these days so that's no use to them either.

spaceHopper

What if she gets pregnant?

Dial Hard

If she's working full-time on a student visa she's already in breach of her permission to be here. This has dumpster fire written all over it. How did he even meet this girl?

Ray Palmer

It sounds like she is committing Visa fraud and he wants to commit fraud. Completely unrealistic expectation about getting accommodation and it sounds like he is unlikely to be able to stay in employment. The 20 hours work is meant to rehabilitative not just employment.

Try to talk him out of it

Of all the places in Europe, never mind Ireland, Dublin would be right up near the top of the list of ones that I'd avoid if I had no job or qualifications.

Leaving your own house to do so is the height of inadvisable.

Dublin is a nightmare for many working people/couples with good paying jobs.

And that's before you get into all the potential legal issues that others have already brought up.

cnocbui

No way should he move to Dublin - pure fantasy. The only half workable option I can envisage is for this girl to catch a bus and come visit each weekend, with likely your brother having to fork out to cover the cost of that.

I know someone who commutes from Ennis to Dublin to attend college, because she couldn't find/afford accommodation.

NSAman

What a great sibling you are. Looking after his welfare....compliments on that.

First, as people have said, she is in breach of her visa..working full-time.

Secondly, he would also be taking advantage if not committing fraud by doing this.

You are right to be wary of the intentions here. I understand you are only trying to look out for his happiness and interfering in this situation would cause upset, but dublin is an expensive place, you really don't know what her intentions are and you don't want bro to be used.

Keep a close eye on him as much as you can, I would advise her moving to your brother (that way it will be easier to see the intention and whether this is him being used or genuinely a relationship).

theguzman

She is not committing visa fraud at the moment as she she works full time and is allowed to do it during June, July, August and September and again in the Christmas season and 20 hours thereafter, however the majority of Latino English Language students in Dublin are working full time and there is zero checks, she was working these hours before June so was committing visa fraud before and will be committing it again after Sept 30th. There seems to be no cross referencing between INIS and Revenue.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Changes%20to%20the%20Employment%20entitlements%20of%20Non-EEA%20Students%20holding%20Immigration%20Stamp%202%20%E2%80%93%20with%20effect%20from%201%20September%202016

She has been coming to my brother's house almost every single weekend since their relationship started, by train at her expense (student fare is cheap anyway) and I or my father collect her at the station as my brother refuses to drive having made a risk assessment but did get his licence, he couldn't afford to run a car anyway.

Frankly I don't blame her as she lives in the city centre of Dublin in a pretty dingy apartment. Other times he has gone to Dublin and stayed in airbnb and hotels, he is spending alot of his money on her, which is a concern also.

I understand she would be required to leave Ireland in the New Year since her visa will be expired unless she secures either a proper employment visa or applies for a proper University 3rd level course.

My brother has savant like qualities and is really smart, he never stops watching American TV news channels and Bloomberg and has given me some brilliant financial advice down through the years.

I think he is a genius being wasted thank to his rural isolation and lack of socialising, which is why I was supportive in his proposed move to Dublin with the obvious caveats.

Dial Hard

There's a huge difference between genius and savant and based on what you've told us I think your brother is far more likely the latter. With that in mind, I think moving to Dublin under the circumstances you've outlined would be a *huge* mistake. It sounds like you're hoping it will unlock some kind of previously dormant ability to function in him, whereas I think it's far more likely he's going to end up used, heartbroken, homeless and possibly (if not likely) far more vulnerable than he already is.
I don't say this to be harsh, OP, far from it. I just think your brother needs protection here, not enabling.

Tiddlypeeps

Is there any way he can take baby steps towards this goal? Maybe he could rent in a house share with his girlfriend (harder to find somewhere to take couples but not impossible). Then spend half the week in Dublin and half the week at home. To finance this he could rent a room out in his current home. This gives him the safety net of very easily being able to return to his current norm if things get too much.

theguzman

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Is there any way he can take baby steps towards this goal? Maybe he could rent in a house share with his girlfriend (harder to find somewhere to take couples but not impossible). Then spend half the week in Dublin and half the week at home. To finance this he could rent a room out in his current home. This gives him the safety net of very easily being able to return to his current norm if things get too much.

The house he lives in now will always be there for him since my mother owns it (but will will pass to my brother upon her death). It could be rented for €800 per month and since my mother actually owns it then renting it would not have any effect on his welfare payments etc.

However his plan was for him and the GF to be there in Dublin 5 nights per week and spend the weekend at home then down the country, he plans to get rehabilitative work allowing him to earn extra money, you can earn an additional €120 per week on Disability Allowance before they start reducing the DA thereafter per the means test.

HAP in Dublin pays €660 for a single person or €900 for a couple, however since his partner is Mexican (non-EU) on a short term visa and has no entitlement to either healthcare or access to social welfare €660 would be the maximum he would be entitled to I think.

But with €660 + €500 from the GF and his own contributions, I'm sure there is something that could be found but like others have said the whole idea is iffy. I'm sure he would pickup some sort of job in the likes of Tesco or McDonalds paying minimum wage. If you didn't know about him you would just say he was just quiet and shy, the company might even get some type of tax break or allowance for hiring a person of disability.

I'm 51% in favour of it because he has come out of himself so much since meeting this girl and it would give my elderly mom a break instead of her nannying him. Worst case scenario it fails and he comes home again.

DoozerT6

I'm just going to come out and say it. I may be completely wrong - I hope I am - but it needs to be said.

Can you be sure this girl is not using your brother for her own ends? Realistically, is he even emotionally capable of a normal adult relationship? What is this girl getting out of being with him? I mean absolutely no disrespect to autistic adults that have loving relationships with others, but something about this setup seems shady to me.

What if she gets pregnant? Is your brother capable of being a father figure to a child? Does he even want children? Can he financially support a child? Have you discussed contraception options with him? If this is his first adult relationship he's probably getting swept up in all sorts of feelings and may not be seeing things clearly.

She's in a ****ty flat. He's a vulnerable adult who clearly likes her a lot. Can you be sure of her intentions? A guy I worked with years ago got absolutely fleeced by an overseas lady he met. We could all see it, but he refused to believe it until she actually left him abruptly after siphoning THOUSANDS from him over the space of a couple of years.

I mean no offense by this post, believe me, and you know your brother best. But I would hate to see someone taken advantage of like my lonely, too-trusting workmate was.

riclad

IF he is on disability allowance he should be on the housing list,
he might get a 1 bed apartment in the area he lives in.
i know a woman she got paid 5k to marry a non national,
so he could get a visa and be legally allowed to remain in ireland.
Theres fake marriages that happen to allow people to stay in ireland.
it makes no sense to move to dublin to help a gf that may be gone in
9 months .

Saudades

theguzman wrote: »

HAP in Dublin pays €660 for a single person or €900 for a couple, however since his partner is Mexican (non-EU) on a short term visa and has no entitlement to either healthcare or access to social welfare €660 would be the maximum he would be entitled to I think.

I think he would be entitled to zero HAP from Dublin City Council because he doesn't have a housing need in Dublin and wouldn't get on the Dublin social housing list.

vriesmays

theguzman wrote: »

My brother is one of the smartest people you will ever meet but is a loner and zero social skills and approaches everything differently to the rest of us.

He should train in IT and get a well-paid job in Dublin.

Tiddlypeeps

theguzman wrote: »

The house he lives in now will always be there for him since my mother owns it (but will will pass to my brother upon her death). It could be rented for €800 per month and since my mother actually owns it then renting it would not have any effect on his welfare payments etc.

However his plan was for him and the GF to be there in Dublin 5 nights per week and spend the weekend at home then down the country, he plans to get rehabilitative work allowing him to earn extra money, you can earn an additional €120 per week on Disability Allowance before they start reducing the DA thereafter per the means test.

HAP in Dublin pays €660 for a single person or €900 for a couple, however since his partner is Mexican (non-EU) on a short term visa and has no entitlement to either healthcare or access to social welfare €660 would be the maximum he would be entitled to I think.

But with €660 + €500 from the GF and his own contributions, I'm sure there is something that could be found but like others have said the whole idea is iffy. I'm sure he would pickup some sort of job in the likes of Tesco or McDonalds paying minimum wage. If you didn't know about him you would just say he was just quiet and shy, the company might even get some type of tax break or allowance for hiring a person of disability.

I'm 51% in favour of it because he has come out of himself so much since meeting this girl and it would give my elderly mom a break instead of her nannying him. Worst case scenario it fails and he comes home again.

As many have pointed out, he won't get financial assistance for housing in Dublin. This is why I suggest renting a room and then a house share in Dublin, at least till he finds his feet. Renting a room in his current house means he still has access to it at weekends or as needed and because it would only be a licensee then he can remove them if he ever wants to go back to the way things were with little hassle. If the whole house is 800 then a room might fetch around 400 (potentially tax free with the rent a room scheme depending on how often he stays there), so with his girlfriend matching that would be 800 to rent in Dublin, he should be able to find a room in a house share with that.

cnocbui

vriesmays wrote: »

He should train in IT and get a well-paid job in Dublin.

He didn't finish HS. People with Aspergers don't usually fit well in normal companies. In the UK, they have the highest unemployment rate of all people with disabilities.

My son has Aspergers and is high functioning. He did get a degree in IT, but he's back home in his bedroom and not in a well paying job in Dublin. Microsoft understand the problem and have a special program for employing people with Aspergers in the US and make significant allowances for them. I doubt you would find that in Dublin. My son is very intelligent and hugely capable in IT, but his degree course had a semester long work experience requirement and he didn't last the distance in that - and he's high functioning compared to many, to the point he doesn't qualify as disabled.

El Tarangu

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I'm just going to come out and say it. I may be completely wrong - I hope I am - but it needs to be said.

Can you be sure this girl is not using your brother for her own ends? Realistically, is he even emotionally capable of a normal adult relationship? What is this girl getting out of being with him? I mean absolutely no disrespect to autistic adults that have loving relationships with others, but something about this setup seems shady to me.

What if she gets pregnant? Is your brother capable of being a father figure to a child? Does he even want children? Can he financially support a child? Have you discussed contraception options with him? If this is his first adult relationship he's probably getting swept up in all sorts of feelings and may not be seeing things clearly.

She's in a ****ty flat. He's a vulnerable adult who clearly likes her a lot. Can you be sure of her intentions? A guy I worked with years ago got absolutely fleeced by an overseas lady he met. We could all see it, but he refused to believe it until she actually left him abruptly after siphoning THOUSANDS from him over the space of a couple of years.

I mean no offense by this post, believe me, and you know your brother best. But I would hate to see someone taken advantage of like my lonely, too-trusting workmate was.

I think you might be a bit overly-suspicious - surely, if the plan was get knocked-up by an Irish passport holder, there are easier ways to go about it than the current scenario?

Also, the motive to fleece him is unlikely also - he has no money.

riclad

He doe,s not need money, her motive could be get married and then gain the right to stay here ,an irish passport is valuable .
She could work here or go to any european country.
There are charitys that employ people on disability or help them to get
work ,even if its only part time work.
For someone thats autistic and with weak social skills it would be very hard to find hap accomodation in dublin.
Theres people in dublin working full time who cannot find a place to rent.
We are in a middle of a housing crisis .
To qualify for hap he would have to go on the dublin city housing list,
he already has good quality housing where he lives .
He could only rent a small 1 bed flat,
each flat now has to have its own en suite bathroom .
unless he finds a landlord with one room in the house to rent .

theguzman

El Tarangu wrote: »

I think you might be a bit overly-suspicious - surely, if the plan was get knocked-up by an Irish passport holder, there are easier ways to go about it than the current scenario?

Also, the motive to fleece him is unlikely also - he has no money.

If you didn't know any better you'd swear he was minted, imagine an Irish Jacob Rees Mogg or Sheldon Cooper, the house and property is probably worth €400k now with the surging crazy prices and when my grandmother died, my parents rushed and installed my brother in there to hold the place and managed to take possession of the property as there was no will left. He drives a 171 car purchased by my father for him and can drive, he dresses very well; he is high functioning with massive autonomy. .

A number of years ago he got in touch with a girl from Thailand online :eek: and eventually flew out to meet her there, anyway nothing came from it other than he declaring that country to be totally filthy and the food awful. So he is not as vulnerable as people think.

I'm keeping an eye on the situation anyway and will keep the thread updated.