Aer Lingus owes me EUR461.98

noel1980

ted1 wrote: »

You need consent from the other party :
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/q-a-what-are-the-legal-implications-1.1740070?mode=amp

Did you even read the article YOU posted?

noel1980

dancingqueen wrote: »

You chose to pay for a seperate flight yourself - that won't hold up in court

No, I was forced to. There's a difference. Because the reschedule feature on their website did not work. I can argue that I called CS and was waiting about 10 minutes (which I was). Then I hung up and booked the flight I wanted as a new booking, because I didn't have the time to wait (which is also true).

I also don't think people are right in saying that I should have contacted CS. I don't think the law says "one must always contact customer service if they get a ****ty service". I could have had no phone to hand. What then? Does the law say I need to have a phone? Companies need to maintain a certain standard of trading, which include having a functioning website, which allows me to perform the function(s) advertised in their product. In my case, their flight re-schedule feature was broken.

If it weren't so, there would be no incentive for them to fix their services.

I have screenshots to prove all my claims, but I won't be going to Irish court judging by the responses on this thread.

I suppose somebody will tell me taking screenshots is against the law now?

SusieBlue

Its not their problem or their fault that you didn't have the time to wait to speak to someone in customer service. You don't have a leg to stand on & they don't owe you a refund for the new flights you booked.

You can't even prove the feature on the website wasn't working because you never even alerted a member of staff that there was an issue with it. All they have is your word that it wasn't working, and they're supposed to just give you a refund straight off the bat based on that?

For all they know, you missed your original flight and are now trying to pull a fast one to recover funds.

dancingqueen

SusieBlue wrote: »

Its not their problem or their fault that you didn't have the time to wait to speak to someone in customer service. You don't have a leg to stand on & they don't owe you a refund for the new flights you booked.

You can't even prove the feature on the website wasn't working because you never even alerted a member of staff that there was an issue with it. All they have is your word that it wasn't working, and they're supposed to just give you a refund straight off the bat based on that?

For all they know, you missed your original flight and are now trying to pull a fast one to recover funds.

Bang on.

Bob Harris

noel1980 wrote: »

No, I was forced to. There's a difference. Because the reschedule feature on their website did not work. I can argue that I called CS and was waiting about 10 minutes (which I was). Then I hung up and booked the flight I wanted as a new booking, because I didn't have the time to wait (which is also true).

You weren't forced to. You had two perfectly good flights for the very next day that you decided on a whim not to take.

I'd say there is not a hope of them refunding you.

noel1980

SusieBlue wrote: »

You can't even prove the feature on the website wasn't working because you never even alerted a member of staff that there was an issue with it. All they have is your word that it wasn't working, and they're supposed to just give you a refund straight off the bat based on that?

I have screenshots, complete with error message and error number.

Edit: I also used their online help facility (the chat-bot thingy), so actually I did alert a member of staff.

For all they know, you missed your original flight and are now trying to pull a fast one to recover funds.

Irrelevant. The motivation behind why I tried to reschedule my flight is completely irrelevant. Also, the fact that I attempted to re-schedule nearly 2 days before my flight was scheduled, makes this a silly and invalid argument.

The point is I was within all the constraints stated on their website here. i.e. I was well within the 2-hour limit, etc etc.

When I tried to use the "change my booking" feature, it appeared to work right up to the point when I attempted to pay, then it mysteriously didn't process the payment.

Wrong on both points

SusieBlue

noel1980 wrote: »

I have screenshots, complete with error message and error number.

Edit: I also used their online help facility (the chat-bot thingy), so actually I did alert a member of staff.




Irrelevant. The motivation behind why I tried to reschedule my flight is completely irrelevant. Also, the fact that I attempted to re-schedule nearly 2 days before my flight was scheduled, makes this a silly and invalid argument.

The point is I was within all the constraints stated on their website here. i.e. I was well within the 2-hour limit, etc etc.

When I tried to use the "change my booking" feature, it appeared to work right up to the point when I attempted to pay, then it mysteriously didn't process the payment.

Wrong on both points

I'm not surprised you're getting nowhere with them with that kind of attitude.

noel1980

Folks, I'm out.

Unsubscribing to this thread. Too many nitwits posting canned responses, or outright incorrect information, and not moving the conversation forward.

Thanks to the few that posted helpful, meaningful posts.

ted1

noel1980 wrote: »

Did you even read the article YOU posted?

Yes and you need consent from the caller or receiver, so if you make a call you need consent from the receiver, or if you are the receiver you need consent from the caller.

fritzelly

ted1 wrote: »

Yes and you need consent from the caller or receiver, so if you make a call you need consent from the receiver, or if you are the receiver you need consent from the caller.

Says nothing of the kind in law

noel1980

ted1 wrote: »

Yes and you need consent from the caller or receiver, so if you make a call you need consent from the receiver, or if you are the receiver you need consent from the caller.

What law school did you attend?

joeguevara

As long as one person knows the call is recorded (even if that person is making the recording) then all is good.

killbillvol2

ted1 wrote: »

Yes and you need consent from the caller or receiver, so if you make a call you need consent from the receiver, or if you are the receiver you need consent from the caller.

Haha.

So both people need to consent in order for the consent of one party to be valid? Sound legal argument!

Bigmac1euro

Unpopular opinion - I hope Noel gets every cent back.

Another thing I feel, is Irish people have this place in their heart for Aer Lingus and will protect them at all costs.
If this was ryanair people would be flying off the handle trying to burn Mickey O'leary out of his gaff.

Sarn

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

I worked in a call centre for a couple of years and I can confirm that it’s not BS at all. The customer service rep automatically becomes a data protection subject if you record the call and you have to adhere to the data protection laws as the owner of the recording. If you share the recording with someone, you’re breaking the law. I’ll find the details about it for you when I’m on the computer later.

The call centre has to declare that they are recording a call, an individual does not.

Gwen Cooper

Sarn wrote: »

The call centre has to declare that they are recording a call, an individual does not.

Just because you don't have to declare it doesn't mean that you don't have any obligations when it comes to storing/sharing the recording.

Gwen Cooper

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Unpopular opinion - I hope Noel gets every cent back.

Another thing I feel, is Irish people have this place in their heart for Aer Lingus and will protect them at all costs.
If this was ryanair people would be flying off the handle trying to burn Mickey O'leary out of his gaff.

Nonsense, I'm not even Irish and I don't believe he's entitled to a refund here and that it will be up to Aer Lingus to decide whether they want to give Noel the money back or not.

He decided to change his flights, spent very little time trying to resolve the issue the way he should have and basically went to do a new booking, assuming that he's entitled to a refund. It's the attitude that irks people here - "Aer Lingus owes me". They don't owe him anything. If it went to court, Noel wouldn't stand a chance.

His only hope now is that the case will get to a manager that has a bit of compassion for his cause and will approve the refund. But from my call centre days I can tell you that if a customer contacted us with this snobby attitude where he believes that he is entitled to whatever he decided he's entitled to, very few people would actually go the extra mile for him.

Bigmac1euro

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

Nonsense, I'm not even Irish and I don't believe he's entitled to a refund here and that it will be up to Aer Lingus to decide whether they want to give Noel the money back or not.

He decided to change his flights, spent very little time trying to resolve the issue the way he should have and basically went to do a new booking, assuming that he's entitled to a refund. It's the attitude that irks people here - "Aer Lingus owes me". They don't owe him anything. If it went to court, Noel wouldn't stand a chance.

His only hope now is that the case will get to a manager that has a bit of compassion for his cause and will approve the refund. But from my call centre days I can tell you that if a customer contacted us with this snobby attitude where he believes that he is entitled to whatever he decided he's entitled to, very few people would actually go the extra mile for him.

Nonsense, the Aer lingus website failed to do the main job it's supposed to do. Process a transaction for a flight. And I'm not even Irish.

Bob Harris

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Nonsense, the Aer lingus website failed to do the main job it's supposed to do. Process a transaction for a flight. And I'm not even Irish.

If you went to a butchers to buy steak and they were sold out would you sue them?

Bigmac1euro

Bob Harris wrote: »

If you went to a butchers to buy steak and they were sold out would you sue them?

No but if the butcher had steak in his hand in front of me and then told me there was an error to contact customer support id be pretty freaked out :pac::pac::pac:

Caranica

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Nonsense, the Aer lingus website failed to do the main job it's supposed to do. Process a transaction for a flight. And I'm not even Irish.

Fair enough if the website was the only way to sort it. But it wasn't. OP has no entitlement to a refund as they didn't speak to the airline even though local phone numbers are available.

Bigmac1euro

Justice for Noel!!!

duffman13

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Unpopular opinion - I hope Noel gets every cent back.

Another thing I feel, is Irish people have this place in their heart for Aer Lingus and will protect them at all costs.
If this was ryanair people would be flying off the handle trying to burn Mickey O'leary out of his gaff.

To be fair, if it was Ryanair I dont think Noel would even bother chancing his arm.

As for your call recording, that's grand, you can use it personally, the moment you try to use it for anything else you need the other parties permission.

As for Noels issue, I've had to ring Aer Lingus customer service 2 or 3 times in the last year for various things, longest hold time was 11 mins, other two calls picked up instantly. Any call centre worth their salt will be able to prove the wait time on the day in question so if it's anything reasonable, good luck getting money.

As for you small claims thoughts practically this is probably the best solution you can hope for tbh, that they don't turn up

Gwen Cooper

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Nonsense, the Aer lingus website failed to do the main job it's supposed to do. Process a transaction for a flight. And I'm not even Irish.

If the self-service is not available, you contact customer service. He decided to skip that part since he assumed that it's going to take ages to get through after being on hold for 10 minutes and didn't bother looking up any other contact numbers since he assumed that there aren't any. Then he made a whole new booking because he assumed that he will get the money back.

AL will apologise about the website error, but still will say that he should have contacted the customer service line. The Italian number is not exactly hidden on the website.

weldoninhio

noel1980 wrote: »

For anybody who's interested, I'm just after calling the CS number, quoted the case # and the guy assured me that I'd get an email by tomorrow.

FYI, Gwen Cooper: Their CS is based in Manilla, Phillipines.

I've recorded all my calls so far. If I don't at least get an email I'm thinking of taking it to small-claims court. It's only 25 euro. Nothing much to lose

Well, it'll bring your wasted money bill up to €406 :pac::pac:

weldoninhio

noel1980 wrote: »

No, I was forced to. There's a difference. Because the reschedule feature on their website did not work. I can argue that I called CS and was waiting about 10 minutes (which I was). Then I hung up and booked the flight I wanted as a new booking, because I didn't have the time to wait (which is also true).

I also don't think people are right in saying that I should have contacted CS. I don't think the law says "one must always contact customer service if they get a ****ty service". I could have had no phone to hand. What then? Does the law say I need to have a phone? Companies need to maintain a certain standard of trading, which include having a functioning website, which allows me to perform the function(s) advertised in their product. In my case, their flight re-schedule feature was broken.

If it weren't so, there would be no incentive for them to fix their services.

I have screenshots to prove all my claims, but I won't be going to Irish court judging by the responses on this thread.

I suppose somebody will tell me taking screenshots is against the law now?

You were not forced to do anything. You didn't have the patience to speak with a rep. That is not Aer Lingus' fault.

ErnieG

By the way you made the "change", you didn't free up the seats on the earlier flight. After you bought the second pair of tickets, you had the option to travel on the original day, or the later time. Aer Lingus could not re-sell the seats on the earlier date. They had to fly them empty, in case you turned up on the day.

Their offer to let you fly on the second date for €80 was contingent on them being able to re-sell the original seats. What you did is not the same as changing your flights in the normal way.

Irrespective of your actual travel plans, you bought something that Aer Lingus was not prepared to sell to you at €80. The website glitch doesn't give you the right to set your own fares. Aer Lingus' website told you that what you were asking for would cost you €541.98 and you paid that.

Gwen Cooper

ErnieG wrote: »

By the way you made the "change", you didn't free up the seats on the earlier flight. After you bought the second pair of tickets, you had the option to travel on the original day, or the later time. Aer Lingus could not re-sell the seats on the earlier date. They had to fly them empty, in case you turned up on the day.

Their offer to let you fly on the second date for €80 was contingent on them being able to re-sell the original seats. What you did is not the same as changing your flights in the normal way.

^^^ This is a great point that hasn’t been addressed here yet.

noel1980

ErnieG wrote: »

By the way you made the "change", you didn't free up the seats on the earlier flight. After you bought the second pair of tickets, you had the option to travel on the original day, or the later time. Aer Lingus could not re-sell the seats on the earlier date. They had to fly them empty, in case you turned up on the day.

Their offer to let you fly on the second date for €80 was contingent on them being able to re-sell the original seats. What you did is not the same as changing your flights in the normal way.

Irrespective of your actual travel plans, you bought something that Aer Lingus was not prepared to sell to you at €80. The website glitch doesn't give you the right to set your own fares. Aer Lingus' website told you that what you were asking for would cost you €541.98 and you paid that.

Listen.

First I tried to re-schedule the flight, it failed. Next, I booked the new flight. At that point I had 2 flights, and could choose which one I wanted. Next, I clicked "cancel flight" on the flight I didn't want, which brought me to the refund request form. I filled the form in, including the flight # and booking reference of the flight I didn't want. I did all this about 36 hours in advance of the cancelled flight departing.

So they could sell the seats if they wanted.

FYI: The refund request form says: "Submitting this form will result in the cancellation of a flight booking for all guests identified below". Furthermore, on the Refund Request Form, I explained exactly what happened and specifically requested the sum of EUR461.98

BUT....

I don't care if Aer Lingus can sell the seats or not. It makes no difference to me. All I care about is the fact that I had to pay €541.98 when I only needed to pay €80.00 when I was within all the constraints of their T&C.

I'm not saying they played dirty.

But I am saying their website malfunctioned in such a way that it forced me to pay over 5X as much as I should.

noel1980

weldoninhio wrote: »

You were not forced to do anything. You didn't have the patience to speak with a rep. That is not Aer Lingus' fault.

It was not that I didn't have patience. We were very busy with my wife's mom's funeral and other issues surrounding her death and I didn't have the time to wait.


More a matter of priorities

Wesser

yes it was a matter of priorities. you chose to spend money as oppossed to spending time in it. you could have opened a face book account or used the chat function. your choice.

noel1980

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Unpopular opinion - I hope Noel gets every cent back.

Another thing I feel, is Irish people have this place in their heart for Aer Lingus and will protect them at all costs.
If this was ryanair people would be flying off the handle trying to burn Mickey O'leary out of his gaff.

You hit the nail on the head.


There's a very "protective" attitude to Aer Lingus in this country. Like the old great grandparent who's still alive even thought their in a wheelchair and have been bailed out by the Irish taxpayer countless times.

noel1980

Wesser wrote: »

yes it was a matter of priorities. you chose to spend money as oppossed to spending time in it. you could have opened a face book account or used the chat function. your choice.

Yes.
I chose to spend money.
And now I want it back.

gwalk

noel1980 wrote: »

Yes.
I chose to spend money.
And now I want it back.

What you want and what you're entitled to are two very different things

Likeabossboss

Hope you get your money back Noel and is definitely worth pursuing but not by a legal means. I’m not sure why posters are getting this annoyed and attacking you to be honest. You may or may not get your money back. Worth a go.

Probably always worth having the helpline details of the company your flying with before hand or definitely know how to contact them especially when you book the option to change flights Tech glitches happen.

This comment is not anything to do with you Noel, but my mother doesn’t know how to google or even use the internet and doesn’t understand how internet works. She would be screwed in the same circumstances.

Noel, Aer Lingus owe you nothing. Nobody owes you anything here. You tried using a website, it didn't work. You had the possibility to speak to a customer care staffer who would have looked after you, but you decided to 'prioritise' and wouldn't wait for more than 10 minutes, so you spent your money and got on with things.

You also say you had no time, but you made one attempt to call and change the flight, 2 days before you due to travel home on the original return date. 2 days. You say you had no time? Give it over.

Your decision. It's all on you. Totally. There's nothing to discuss here. Waste your time and more energy on the SCC. Be snide and argumentative. Try to take the high road. You're going to end up in the same place no matter what.

Just get on with your life. You've no right to what you think you're entitled to here. You're absolutely wasting part of it trying to win a pointless argument here, winding yourself up and causing yourself needless aggravation.

jimmycrackcorm

noel1980 wrote: »

Listen.

First I tried to re-schedule the flight, it failed. Next, I booked the new flight. At that point I had 2 flights, and could choose which one I wanted. Next, I clicked "cancel flight" on the flight I didn't want, which brought me to the refund request form. I filled the form in, including the flight # and booking reference of the flight I didn't want. I did all this about 36 hours in advance of the cancelled flight departing.

So they could sell the seats if they wanted.

FYI: The refund request form says: "Submitting this form will result in the cancellation of a flight booking for all guests identified below". Furthermore, on the Refund Request Form, I explained exactly what happened and specifically requested the sum of EUR461.98

BUT....

I don't care if Aer Lingus can sell the seats or not. It makes no difference to me. All I care about is the fact that I had to pay €541.98 when I only needed to pay €80.00 when I was within all the constraints of their T&C.

I'm not saying they played dirty.

But I am saying their website malfunctioned in such a way that it forced me to pay over 5X as much as I should.

From an EI perspective you decided to change your mind about when you were flying and chancing your arm about avoiding change fees.

They might have IT logs about an issue with the website but you're still going to be stuck that you didn't bother to try and call on the phone.

They're not obliged to provide only services via the website and they are no laws protecting in the event of a website failure.

noel1980

I'm getting nowhere here.

noel1980

noel1980 wrote: »

I'm getting nowhere here.

Get used to that feeling in relation to this matter.

Curious_Case

noel1980 wrote: »

I'm getting nowhere here.

I too believe that you should be reimbursed.

You encountered a difficulty, not of your making, and you employed a creative workaround.

Do Aer Lingus think people enjoy paying double ???

noel1980

Curious_Case wrote: »

I too believe that you should be reimbursed.

You encountered a difficulty, not of your making, and you employed a creative workaround.

Do Aer Lingus think people enjoy paying double ???

Well... more like an "expensive workaround" ... but thanks

fdevine

Curious_Case wrote: »

I too believe that you should be reimbursed.

You encountered a difficulty, not of your making, and you employed a creative workaround.

Do Aer Lingus think people enjoy paying double ???

Noel? I that you? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

If any company had to reimburse a customer every time there was a glitch.....

Impatience will not stand up as a defense anywhere

I am in the "you won't get a red cent out of AL camp"

Learn your lesson and let it go

Muahahaha

fdevine wrote: »

Noel? I that you? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

If any company had to reimburse a customer every time there was a glitch.....

Impatience will not stand up as a defense anywhere

I am in the "you won't get a red cent out of AL camp"

Learn your lesson and let it go

Leaving aside the rights or wrongs of this case if he goes to the SCC I doubt Aer Lingus are going to spend hundreds of euros in legal fees sending a solicitor down to court. They would be more likely try to come to an arrangement with the customer, perhaps even offering a 50% refund in mediation before it goes to court.

killbillvol2

Muahahaha wrote: »

Leaving aside the rights or wrongs of this case if he goes to the SCC I doubt Aer Lingus are going to spend hundreds of euros in legal fees sending a solicitor down to court. They would be more likely try to come to an arrangement with the customer, perhaps even offering a 50% refund in mediation before it goes to court.

Ah, so employ the modus operandi of every shyster ambulance chasing solicitor and their scumbag clients.

gwalk

Compo culture

I want I want I want, I'm entitled I'm entitled I'm entitled blah blah blah

Bikerman2019

gwalk wrote: »

Compo culture

I want I want I want, I'm entitled I'm entitled I'm entitled blah blah blah

Not quite. More like entitlement culture