2 working adults favored over one

Still waters

Where have you been living with the last 2 years since you started looking for a place

YellowLead

Still waters wrote: »

Where have you been living with the last 2 years since you started looking for a place

In a bad relationship

the_syco

YellowLead wrote: »

Should I be quoting my salary in any enquiries?

Maybe. I'm guessing if you don't mention that you work, LL's will assume that you'll be paying with HAP.

Perhaps look for a 2 bed apartment, and don't mention the kid?

YellowLead

the_syco wrote: »

Maybe. I'm guessing if you don't mention that you work, LL's will assume that you'll be paying with HAP.

Perhaps look for a 2 bed apartment, and don't mention the kid?

I always mention that I work, just have never quoted salary but yes I could leave out the child part initially if that might help, in case there is bias against single parents.

Jessibelle

It's no help to the OP I know, but in the last three months searching, highlighting that my partner and I are both working and stable tennant's with references etc, and having responded to goodness knows how many ads, we've had three viewings. At this stage, it's an exercise in frustration and I can only imagine it's worse when the selectivity when a child is mentioned is employed.

YellowLead

Jessibelle wrote: »

It's no help to the OP I know, but in the last three months searching, highlighting that my partner and I are both working and stable tennant's with references etc, and having responded to goodness knows how many ads, we've had three viewings. At this stage, it's an exercise in frustration and I can only imagine it's worse when the selectivity when a child is mentioned is employed.

I hope you find something soon

Jessibelle

YellowLead wrote: »

I hope you find something soon

You too!

Mellor

10pennymixup wrote: »

To discriminate is to differentiate between two or more things/ people using certain criteria.

That's not the definition of discrimination. That's the root of the misconception.
Differentiate is not the same as discriminant.

It's perfectly possible to choose between two people without discrimianting. If people think that it's not possible they are living in a bubble.

Dav010 wrote: »

And how do you choose one over the other? You decide on selection criteria where you favour one applicant over another. That criteria, even though it may be applied to all, may be discriminatory.

Or course if may be discriminatory. A criteria of "no homosexuals" is discriminatory. That's very different to saying every single criteria possible is discriminatory.

Same principle here, the LL, reasonably, would prefer a couple with two incomes, but I doubt you could state that on the ad. We all discriminate, most of it is not illegal, and the bit that is, you don’t put it on your daft ad.
Today 00:25

Making an making an assessment based on the means of a applicant to meet the rental requirements is not discrimination. For example, I wouldn't rent a property for $500 per week to a person whose income was $1,000 pre-tax.

In general an applicant with two incomes will be higher than a single income. Choosing the higher income is not discrimination, it's the best best choice fro ma risk POV. But no reason why the single income couldn't be higher. Disregarding all the single applicants, regardless of their income is discrimination. That's the difference.

A blanket rule on the ad, refusing to consider certain applicants on their merits is discrimination. But considering them, and choosing somebody who scores better on valid criteria, is not.


As an aside, the reason we we shouldn't discriminate is because morally wrong, not because it's illegal. If you are ok with saying "we all discriminate", you might need to have a look at yourself.

10pennymixup

Mellor wrote: »

That's not the definition of discrimination. That's the root of the misconception.
Differentiate is not the same as discriminant.

No thanks, I don't need a semantics lesson from you. And I'm pretty sure that no one else wants one from me. So this is all I'm going to say on it.

You could not be more wrong when you say "differentiate is not the same as discriminant (sic)"

The word discriminate literally means to differentiate. It comes from the latin word discriminat meaning distinguish between.

The true misconception lies with its informal use over the last few decades. When issues such as race and civil rights have come to the fore, leaving the word with negative connotations and as something prejudicial. That is not it's primary meaning, and where your confusion stems from.

Linky to the first online dictionary I came across on a google search

And all of the above, as with your post, is of little relevance to the OP.

Mellor

10pennymixup wrote: »

[
The word discriminate literally means to differentiate. It comes from the latin word discriminat meaning distinguish between.

We are talking about the meaning of discrimination in modern english. Not it’s latin root.

Linky to the first online dictionary I came across on a google search

You probably should have checked discrimination while you were there.
Same dictionary

Definition of discrimination
1a : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment
racial discrimination
b : the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually

I agree it doesn’t help the OP. But neither does claiming it’s discrimination. And OP sounds fairly rational. Sounds like he understands the situation and isn’t being led by the online whinge brigade.

Graham

Mod Note

Please take the semantics debate somewhere else. It is adding nothing to this thread and it's not helping the OP.

Lux23

Kash Mango Stomach wrote: »

Of course they can you just can’t say it, which is ridiculous of course as a property owner should be allowed to choose who he/she wants for any reason and if they don’t want kids, single people etc they should just be allowed to state this in their ads and save everyone’s time.

And an employer should be able to say they only want to hire a certain gender.

Lux23

Mellor wrote: »

I agree it doesn’t help the OP. But neither does claiming it’s discrimination. And OP sounds fairly rational. Sounds like he understands the situation and isn’t being led by the online whinge brigade.

Prefering to rent to a couple versus a single person is legally discrimination in this country. This isn't a claim, it is a fact.

Fol20

Lux23 wrote: »

Prefering to rent to a couple versus a single person is legally discrimination in this country. This isn't a claim, it is a fact.

I’m not discriminating because they are single. I am picking a different person because of affordability. If one person is in 50k while 2 people are on circa 40k each. I would pick the couple on 80k as they are more likely to afford my place. Equally if you have a person on 150k vs a couple on 80k. I’d be more likely to pick the single person.

I would also acknowledge that a single person will do less wear and tear. Is this also discrimination on family status. I’m not based on any status. It is just the number of people that would use said property

Mellor

Lux23 wrote: »

Prefering to rent to a couple versus a single person is legally discrimination in this country. This isn't a claim, it is a fact.

Which is exactly what I said

Mellor wrote:

In general an applicant with two incomes will be higher than a single income. Choosing the higher income is not discrimination, it's the best choice from a risk POV. But no reason why the single income couldn't be higher. Disregarding all the single applicants, regardless of their income is discrimination. That's the difference

Rejecting somebody because they are single, is not the same as rejecting a single person because of heir means/risk.

Lux23

Mellor wrote: »

Which is exactly what I said



Rejecting somebody because they are single, is not the same as rejecting a single person because of heir means/risk.

The effect is the same though, so legally you're on shaky ground.

Mellor

Lux23 wrote: »

The effect is the same though, so legally you're on shaky ground.

Not really. The law (in this case) regards motive, not effect.

Same way it’s illegal to deny somebody a job because of their sexuality. But it’s fine if a straight person is hired ahead of a straight person because he was the better applicant - even though the effect is the same.

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

And an employer should be able to say they only want to hire a certain gender.

An employer can choose the most suitable applicant and that may well mean a choosing a specific gender depending on the requirements.

A construction company who wants a laborer to do heavy lifting is not going to hire a petite 5ft city girl as she would be incapable of doing the job. A Lingerie store is not going to hire a man as most customers will refuse to have a man fitting them for a bra.

Choosing a working couple over a single person or a couple without kids over a couple with them is a business decision. You have lower risk in the first case and lower wear and tear in the second. Same for avoiding HAP. These are business decisions and having to hide all this under the veil of “equality” helps no one and wastes everyone’s time.

pinkyeye

OP, the fact that you've only gotten 2 viewings in 2 years is surprising really. My daughter is going to at least two viewings a week. She's not getting anywhere yet mind you but that's another battle.

These would be my tips:

1. Check Daft early in the morning each day and email the new ads straight away. LL's often get hundreds of emails and will only read the first 50 probably.

2. Comprise a good email. State that you're working, how long you're in your job, salary etc. Also make sure it's well written grammatically, I know this seems silly but every little helps to get that initial viewings.

3. State that you have a deposit and 1st months rent available and you're ready to move straight away. As someone else said an empty property costs a LL money so they're looking for speed too.

Hope this helps.

John_Rambo

Kash Mango Stomach wrote: »

An employer can choose the most suitable applicant and that may well mean a choosing a specific gender depending on the requirements.

A construction company who wants a laborer to do heavy lifting is not going to hire a petite 5ft city girl as she would be incapable of doing the job. A Lingerie store is not going to hire a man as most customers will refuse to have a man fitting them for a bra.

These are really really excellent analogies Nox. Brings such clarity to the thread, thanks. (especial the petite 5ft cit girl doing heavy lifting. Crazy situation and probably dangerous to her and her colleagues)

YellowLead

pinkyeye wrote: »

OP, the fact that you've only gotten 2 viewings in 2 years is surprising really. My daughter is going to at least two viewings a week. She's not getting anywhere yet mind you but that's another battle.

These would be my tips:

1. Check Daft early in the morning each day and email the new ads straight away. LL's often get hundreds of emails and will only read the first 50 probably.

2. Comprise a good email. State that you're working, how long you're in your job, salary etc. Also make sure it's well written grammatically, I know this seems silly but every little helps to get that initial viewings.

3. State that you have a deposit and 1st months rent available and you're ready to move straight away. As someone else said an empty property costs a LL money so they're looking for speed too.

Hope this helps.

That’s great advice thanks it’s those little things that may not be obvious when you are new to this. Is your daughter trying to rent a 2 bed by herself?
That would be curious if it was a direct comparison and she was getting access to viewings and I was not.
You are correct on the early mornings - I tend to apply at night time which clearly is rubbish on reflection - so good tip there.
As regards grammar - to be fair when writing a boards post I’m not particular but I have an English degree (lol) and can compose correctly if warranted so while I may come across here as not being in a position to write a decent line of English - when I really need to you can be sure it’s well thought out

pinkyeye

YellowLead wrote: »

That’s great advice thanks it’s those little things that may not be obvious when you are new to this. Is your daughter trying to rent a 2 bed by herself?
That would be curious if it was a direct comparison and she was getting access to viewings and I was not.
You are correct on the early mornings - I tend to apply at night time which clearly is rubbish on reflection - so good tip there.
As regards grammar - to be fair when writing a boards post I’m not particular but I have an English degree (lol) and can compose correctly if warranted so while I may come across here as not being in a position to write a decent line of English - when I really need to you can be sure it’s well thought out

Ah no, I'm sure you can write properly, was just an idea.

Yes, my daughter is looking for a 2 bedroom for herself and a baby. Now in saying that she hasn't been successful at any of the viewings but you come across as someone who certainly will do well at any viewing you get.

Best of luck.

YellowLead

pinkyeye wrote: »

Ah no, I'm sure you can write properly, was just an idea.

Yes, my daughter is looking for a 2 bedroom for herself and a baby. Now in saying that she hasn't been successful at any of the viewings but you come across as someone who certainly will do well at any viewing you get.

Best of luck.

Thanks and best of luck to your daughter too, she is obviously doing something right in how she responds to adverts. If she is getting viewings it might not be long before she lands somewhere.