Buying apartment in the Beacon South Quarter

Klaudia.

Hi all,

I've been looking to buy an apt in the Beacon South Quarter area, Sandyford, but I find it challenging now. Some agents are saying BSQ apartments are only for cash buyers now, some that will get a mortgage. Does anyone know what is the situation in the beacon? When they're going to fix issues and are those issues very severve for occupans?

PS: I just know what I was able to find in Irish newspaper. Would appreciate information from curent tnants/ owners...

Thanks!

steamsey

Klaudia. wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been looking to buy an apt in the Beacon South Quarter area, Sandyford, but I find it challenging now. Some agents are saying BSQ apartments are only for cash buyers now, some that will get a mortgage. Does anyone know what is the situation in the beacon? When they're going to fix issues and are those issues very severve for occupans?

PS: I just know what I was able to find in Irish newspaper. Would appreciate information from curent tnants/ owners...

Thanks!

Severity of issue depends on apartment. Some have real water problems internally, others very minor leaks. There were water and fire issues identified. They are currently fixing the water issues, block by block. If I were you, I'd get in touch with Aramark and ask them about any apartment that you are considering (and the block it's in). This was sensationalized, by a few individuals who self elected themselves as representatives of the residents - for example, going on FB, RTE and demanding that the government pick up the tab. I'd take what you read online with a healthy pinch of salt.

Thankfully those people are not in the limelight anymore and everyone can concentrate on getting the issues fixed. I would also check whether the water and fire charges had been paid if I were looking at an apartment - and if not, reduce selling price appropriately. Many, many blocks in Ireland will have same or similar issues - but Beacon was unlucky with a few mouthpieces who went to the media to complain and got absolutely zero results.

tradingwizz

Anyone know if anyt lender will give a mortgage on the Beacon, e.g. The Cubes??

Klaudia.

There is another thread about BSQ apts created recently. The author describes experience of trying to buy in BSQ. And that person said no mortgage on BSQ ( I asked my broker and he said I will not get a mortgage on BSQ.

apt2view

You can get approval. But the bank will reject after they know it is beacon south quarter. That is why many apartments are not sold and advertised again.

They tell you it is cash buyer only when you are making an offer.

They put open viewing so that lots of people go to view and you think there is lot of interest.

tradingwizz

Klaudia. wrote: »

There is another thread about BSQ apts created recently. The author describes experience of trying to buy in BSQ. And that person said no mortgage on BSQ ( I asked my broker and he said I will not get a mortgage on BSQ.

Okay thanks. Very disappointing. I have heard about water ingress and potential fire safety issues. I believe these are being worked on but will take a few years to complete.

The main issues banks stumble over are a fire safety cert and insurance. Do the apartments have a fire safety cert? There must be block insurance?

tradingwizz

They have fire safety cert and block insurance

Diemos

Why invite trouble on yourself going for a place with such issues? Even if these one have been resolved, you could have trouble selling in the future, and I guarantee many many other corners were cut during that build process.
If you are a cash buyer you can probably afford to take the hit but not someone with a mortgage.

There are so many other great options in that area. Just look elsewhere

tradingwizz

They seem to be now taking the issues seriously with a view to resolving all fire safety and water ingress issues in the coming 2 years. The insurance company has admitted liability and is in negotiation to quantify costs. I understand from Aramark that over 90% of owners have now paid the necessary costs to repair all the blocks for the identified fire hazards and water ingress.

The property values have been kept suppressed for the past 10 years because of the issues. It's likely, once resolved, that banks will start offering mortgages again and the property prices will rise to fair value.

apt2view

Are your selling, buying or trying to lie to yourself that it is fine to buy?

The fire compliance was issued in the past - not valid anymore.

The water issues you say insurance has accepted liability - read the policy.

The prices were kept down you say - because banks weren't lending

Issues mostly resolved - No, it takes over two/three years to resolve.

Lot of other issues also - 3 more major issues

Anything more you need to convince yourself to buy there?

markpb

apt2view wrote: »

The fire compliance was issued in the past - not valid anymore.

I don't think that's true. A fire cert is issued at the time of planning and is covered by the planning requirements at the time. It doesn't stop being valid unless there's a material change in the use or construction of the building.

On the other hand, a fire cert just says that the building is compliant if it's built in accordance with the plans. There are no guarantees (and no checks) that the building actually matches the plans. Even when the architect signs any documents on completion, they will caveat it to say that they can't visually confirm that all elements so they can't confirm that it followed their plans or that it's compliant.

tradingwizz

Just to say that a fire safety cert is in place and that an audit has been carried out to identify what fire stopping issues need repair. Those repair works have been quantified, money made available to do them and should be finalised in the next year.

For the water ingress, the remedial works have been indentified and are expected to complete in 2021. A levy has been added already to apartment owners and the insurance company has accepted liability in the matter with a final settlement being teased out presently.

In fairness, all these issues are being addressed and not being swept under the carpet, like in the past. So, hopefully, an end in sight in the next couple of years,

apt2view

Disagree with a lot above. I thought similar first until lawyer told me no.
The fire safety officer has issued something saying the building is not compliant and legal action can be taken against them by fire brigade.

Owners are members of the management company, so "levy" is to cover any costs which are not part of yearly annual charge. When you say they have charged a levy, you need to check what it is for.

Anyway, whoever wants to buy can buy. Not my money to tell people it's not safe. I am deliberately not giving out facts and figures but telling people to check themselves.

apt2view

markpb wrote: »

I don't think that's true. A fire cert is issued at the time of planning and is covered by the planning requirements at the time. It doesn't stop being valid unless there's a material change in the use or construction of the building.

On the other hand, a fire cert just says that the building is compliant if it's built in accordance with the plans. There are no guarantees (and no checks) that the building actually matches the plans. Even when the architect signs any documents on completion, they will caveat it to say that they can't visually confirm that all elements so they can't confirm that it followed their plans or that it's compliant.

I don't know the legal terminology but the Fire Safety Officer identified structural issues and stated that they have to be resolved or face legal action. It seems it didn't follow agreed planning specifications when built. It's not the case of missing fire stoppers only.

So technically a cert is there but there is also a "notice" or "warning" whatever it is called to say that the building isn't complying.

As I said, not a legal expert but lawyer advised that it's very risky to proceed.

tradingwizz

apt2view wrote: »

I don't know the legal terminology but the Fire Safety Officer identified structural issues and stated that they have to be resolved or face legal action. It seems it didn't follow agreed planning specifications when built. It's not the case of missing fire stoppers only.

So technically a cert is there but there is also a "notice" or "warning" whatever it is called to say that the building isn't complying.

As I said, not a legal expert but lawyer advised that it's very risky to proceed.

I have seen the full fire safety report and it doesnt talk anywhere in terms of threats of legal actions of any sort. That's just scaremongering! Instead, it talks about regularisations and remedial works required.

Agreed, there were certain conditions that were expected to be satisfied for the fire safety certificate and this is part fo the review. A full schedule of remedial works required has been generated from the audit.

Eric Cartman

from an Irish times article in 08 :

"Times are very different now and prices for the phase being launched this week by Sherry FitzGerald New Homes start at €365,000 for one-bedroom apartments, with two-beds starting at €385,000.
(In 2006, two-beds were selling from over €400,000). Car-parking is extra at €23,000 (reduced from previous levels)"

over 400k at one point for a 2 bed apartment, with these issues, now asking 330 and struggling for mortgages. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

apt2view

The city’s chief fire officer, Patrick Fleming, wrote to owners to say the fire brigade had been alerted to “fire deficiencies” in the development, built in 2005 by developer Paddy Shovlin’s Landmark Enterprises.

The fire brigade has ordered a detailed fire assessment to be carried out on all blocks. Where remediation works are required, “this will commence immediately after the detailed fire assessment has been undertaken and be completed within an acceptable time scale,” Mr Fleming said.

“If the required works are not carried out to the satisfaction of the Dublin Fire Brigade within an acceptable timescale, then it will have no other alternative but to pursue legal options.”

The vote followed a warning by Dublin Fire Brigade that owners could face legal action if they did not undertake fire safety works at their homes.

The city’s chief fire officer, Patrick Fleming, had written to owners to say the fire brigade had been alerted to “fire deficiencies” in the development, built in 2005 by developer Paddy Shovlin’s Landmark Enterprises.

tradingwizz wrote: »

I have seen the full fire safety report and it doesnt talk anywhere in terms of threats of legal actions of any sort. That's just scaremongering! Instead, it talks about regularisations and remedial works required.

Can we sue the Fire Brigade and the Chief Fire Officer Patrick Fleming for scaremongering? Surely we can sue Mr. Fleming directly as he has been quoted? And if he hasn't said that surely he can sue the paper for scaremongering?

What you may have seen is the remediation project proposal/plan created by SM. Check the DFB correspondence from 2017 to the OMC.

If you have facts, provide them. If not, don't assume.

circlek

tradingwizz wrote: »

I have seen the full fire safety report and it doesnt talk anywhere in terms of threats of legal actions of any sort. That's just scaremongering! Instead, it talks about regularisations and remedial works required.

Agreed, there were certain conditions that were expected to be satisfied for the fire safety certificate and this is part fo the review. A full schedule of remedial works required has been generated from the audit.

I second whats said by other posters contrary to your post. I've another thread detailing the issues and losses I encountered.
For common folks - bsq is too risky. In your case its different.

accensi0n

Surely the fact that the Coffee Shot stays open during pandemics makes it worth the risk?

tradingwizz

circlek wrote: »

I second whats said by other posters contrary to your post. I've another thread detailing the issues and losses I encountered.
For common folks - bsq is too risky. In your case its different.

My case being??

circlek

tradingwizz wrote: »

My case being??

You "seem" extremely keen on bsq and "seem" to be attempting to play down the issues so all I did was looked up your past posts...
Taking advantage of Section 23, Rent Reviews - Landlord/Investor?
Probably have most of the funds if you are asking about a bridging loan - Cash buyer?

Beacon is or was an investors only place... Every person's case is different, some can still afford to buy in bsq, majority wont.

Due diligence is the best advice.