Earphones with separate volume control?

Sanguine Fan

I have an iPod Classic hooked up to a Denon music system. To enhance audio quality, the connection to the amp is via the iPod’s dock connector rather than the headphone jack. When I listen through speakers everything is fine. But, because the iPod’s volume control only works through the jack, I need to connect my earphones to the amp itself. If I connect them direct to the iPod, the sound is just too loud.

So I am looking for a pair of earphones with volume control that will allow me to listen to the iPod outdoors or elsewhere in the house. Unfortunately anything I have tried so far is dependent on the volume control of the device itself. So they don’t work when used with the dock connector.

Is there a brand of hi-fi earphones out there that has a truly independent volume control?

AllForIt

Is this what your looking for - a manual volume control? Old style. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32956204634.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.421829acivz53b&algo_pvid=cbecdfd3-0b24-4059-8d0f-41a1e8adfb52&algo_expid=cbecdfd3-0b24-4059-8d0f-41a1e8adfb52-3&btsid=3f593189-02de-45fd-9580-8d25a35798da&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_53

Sanguine Fan

AllForIt wrote: »

Is this what your looking for - a manual volume control? Old style. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32956204634.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.421829acivz53b&algo_pvid=cbecdfd3-0b24-4059-8d0f-41a1e8adfb52&algo_expid=cbecdfd3-0b24-4059-8d0f-41a1e8adfb52-3&btsid=3f593189-02de-45fd-9580-8d25a35798da&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_53

Thanks for the link. It certainly looks like it could work.

I know the technology is available because I have a cheap headset for Skype and the volume control works fine with the iPod. So maybe this could do what I need if connected to a decent set of earphones.

AllForIt

Sanguine Fan wrote: »

Thanks for the link. It certainly looks like it could work.

I know the technology is available because I have a cheap headset for Skype and the volume control works fine with the iPod. So maybe this could do what I need if connected to a decent set of earphones.

Well it's old tech obviously as digital in-line controls are the thing now. I used to use that style of control with my sony walkman in the 90's! They used to be part of the earphones but of the one I linked to can be used with anything. You might not want that particular one, if you check out the store there are others of different lengths, colors, etc.


Oh, btw, I've never owned an ipod. Are you sure using the dock is not a digital output, in which case it won't work. If it's an analogue out then it shouldn't sound any better than the headphone out.

Sanguine Fan

AllForIt wrote: »

Oh, btw, I've never owned an ipod. Are you sure using the dock is not a digital output, in which case it won't work. If it's an analogue out then it shouldn't sound any better than the headphone out.

I am not very technically-literate but, as far as I understand, the headphone jack works off a sound card in the iPod that degrades the original sound file. When I use the dock connection the audio quality is clearly better, even to my cloth ears. I think this is because it bypasses the sound card and accesses the original sound file. That explains why the volume control on the iPod does not function in that situation.

I use an adapter that fits into the dock connection at one end, and into which I can insert a headphone jack at the other. So theoretically, the cable you linked to should work when fitted between the headphones and my adapter. I will probably have to get another female to female jack connector but otherwise it should be OK.

Thanks again.

AllForIt

No I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is going on.

The mp3 file on your iPod is in digital format. 10011100. When played it is sent to the iPod soundcard as you call it, actually called a DAC, which converts the 11011101 to an analogue signal. Headphones can't play 1011010101, they can only play an analogue signal which is an electrical current that fluctuates according to the sound. The speakers move according to this fluctuation. The dac on the ipod does not degrade the sound because 100101010 is not sound. It's just data. It actually makes the sound from the data.

If when using the dock you get digital out this means it sends 0110001110 directly to the Denon system and then the Denon uses it's own DAC to convert the 010111001 into analogue sound, instead of the iPod doing it. If the sound on the Denon is better than the sound from the headphone jack on the iPod this just means the Denon has a better dac than the iPod has. Which wouldn't be surprising giving the ipod is just a portable device.

So you can't use the cable I linked to with 100100110. This data can't be turned up or down volume wise. You can only adjust an analog signal with it.

I'm just explaining all this because I'm not clear on what exactly it is your trying to achieve so hopefully if you understand what I said you'll be able to figure it out yourself.

Sanguine Fan

AllForIt wrote: »

So you can't use the cable I linked to with 100100110. This data can't be turned up or down volume wise. You can only adjust an analog signal with it.
.

As I said I'm not a techie. so this is the bit of your post that jumped out at me.

If I understand you correctly, even if I were able to connect a set of earphones to the iPod via the dock connector, not only would the volume control not work, but the audio quality would be the same as if I used the headphone jack.

Have I got that right?

I can hear sound when headphones are connected to the iPod via the dock connector, it's just too loud for comfort. So I can't say if the quality is better than the more conventional method.

But, as I also mentioned, when I connect my Skype headset to the iPod, I can adjust the volume through the headphones. Unfortunately the audio quality is poor, but for different reasons obviously. It was this that made me think it must be possible to find good quality earphones with volume control.

I may still try your suggestion. It is quite cheap and I need to order a few other small bits and pieces that may make the postage cost for the lot economical.

AllForIt

Sanguine Fan wrote: »

As I said I'm not a techie. so this is the bit of your post that jumped out at me.

If I understand you correctly, even if I were able to connect a set of earphones to the iPod via the dock connector, not only would the volume control not work, but the audio quality would be the same as if I used the headphone jack.

Have I got that right?

You wouldn't hear sound at all, maybe static.

I can hear sound when headphones are connected to the iPod via the dock connector, it's just too loud for comfort. So I can't say if the quality is better than the more conventional method.

So it's not a digital out then, it sounds like the analogue audio is routed through the dock instead of the headphone jack for convenience. It should sound the same as the headphone jack quality wise but I've no idea why you can't adjust the volume in that case.

If you could provide a link to the dock you have I could have a look at it to see what's going on.

Sanguine Fan

AllForIt wrote: »

If you could provide a link to the dock you have I could have a look at it to see what's going on.

I use a few different connections, depending on what I play the iPod through. This is the one I use most.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0087OWZSQ/ref=psdc_1098227031_t2_B004LNVTUM

I also use a slightly different connection in the car. It has a USB plug instead of the jack pin.

For static use with my hi-fi system I sit the iPod in an iPure dock (now obsolete), which is connected to the amp.

jumbone

AllForIt wrote: »

So it's not a digital out then, it sounds like the analogue audio is routed through the dock instead of the headphone jack for convenience. It should sound the same as the headphone jack quality wise but I've no idea why you can't adjust the volume in that case.

If you could provide a link to the dock you have I could have a look at it to see what's going on.

Ipod classic Dock connectors provide line level audio
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level

Headphone jack gets the same output as the Dock connector except it goes via an amp/preamp built into the ipod (which is the volume you adjust using the click wheel)

If you set the volume higher than line level you might get clipping (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio) ) on the headphone output - I. E. Losing some fidelity in return for a boost in volume.

Now imagine plugging the ipod in via headphone jack turned up full and having the denon amp turned down low - you are getting the same actual listening volume as line level input with the denim set to medium except you are throwing away fidelity or quality

I suppose what you are looking for is a set of studio monitor headphones. Basically these headphones expect line level audio. If that doesn't happen to be a proper listening volume you may need an amp too - either portable or built onto the monitors. This amp would need to be better than the one on the ipod for this to be of any benefit

jumbone

jumbone wrote: »

Ipod classic Dock connectors provide line level audio
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level

Headphone jack gets the same output as the Dock connector except it goes via an amp/preamp built into the ipod (which is the volume you adjust using the click wheel)

If you set the volume higher than line level you might get clipping (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio) ) on the headphone output - I. E. Losing some fidelity in return for a boost in volume.

Now imagine plugging the ipod in via headphone jack turned up full and having the denon amp turned down low - you are getting the same actual listening volume as line level input with the denim set to medium except you are throwing away fidelity or quality

I suppose what you are looking for is a set of studio monitor headphones. Basically these headphones expect line level audio. If that doesn't happen to be a proper listening volume you may need an amp too - either portable or built onto the monitors. This amp would need to be better than the one on the ipod for this to be of any benefit

Lightning connectors provide a digital signal out and a DAC (digital analogue connector) built into the earphones (with lightning not 3.5mm plug) converts that to analogue
That's why lightning earphones tend to cos more that 3.5mm one's (&licence fees to apple of course)

audiophile level gear that accepts lightning use their own dac to convert to analogue which will be better that the one in the headphones.

Seems ops understanding was a mix of old and new ipod tech

Sanguine Fan

AllForIt wrote: »

Is this what your looking for - a manual volume control? Old style. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32956204634.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.421829acivz53b&algo_pvid=cbecdfd3-0b24-4059-8d0f-41a1e8adfb52&algo_expid=cbecdfd3-0b24-4059-8d0f-41a1e8adfb52-3&btsid=3f593189-02de-45fd-9580-8d25a35798da&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_53

Belated thanks for this suggestion. I ended up getting something quite like that and it works exactly as I had hoped.

I can now listen on headphones to my iPod Classic via the 30-pin connector and, most importantly, control the volume. The sound quality compared with connecting directly to the headphone jack is so much better.