Inappropriate text from solicitor - advice please

antix80

Megwepz wrote: »

What I was asking for advice on was - should she stick out the discomfort and continue having him represent her in order to continue on with the case OR should she seek alternative representation and if she does, what sort of impact is that likely to have on the progress of her case.

Think you got your advice a few times over. Stick with him. Interestingly enough there are no ethical concerns about dating once he's not representing her.. She should just be careful his ex hasn't already cleared him out.

Megwepz

Megwepz wrote: »

What I was asking for advice on was - should she stick out the discomfort and continue having him represent her in order to continue on with the case OR should she seek alternative representation and if she does, what sort of impact is that likely to have on the progress of her case.

Is it a large firm? i.e., could the case be transferred over to someone else within that firm?

Leaving aside the obvious lack of professionalism, there is also the fact that the solicitor has shown that he can't control his emotions, is susceptible to heavy drinking and he's possibly also going through financial difficulties considering his separation. If your "friend" is considering staying with him, I'd recommend that she obtains clear indications around potential fees/charges on the assumption of a successful case.

I think the lack of professional judgement in this case is "forgivable"- obviously the Solicitor is going through some personal difficulties- I'd be of the view, don't kick em while they're down- but i think your friend needs very clear reassurance that her solicitor will apply absolute focus on her case, and is capable of carrying through with the case- I don't see these as unreasonable asks, considering his behaviour to date.

antix80

boege wrote: »

A solicitor should use his utmost skill and care in acting on behalf of his client. The standard of care expected is that of a reasonably careful and skilful solicitor who has the relevant expertise. The standard should also take into account the fact that the relationship of a solicitor and client is a fiduciary relationship.

Snip

https://www.lawsociety.ie/globalassets/documents/committees/conduct-guide.pdf

I'm not so sure that link backs up the point you're making. He didn't make the advance in his capacity as solicitor after all. She's not in a vulnerable group. There's no conflict of interest. The only thing you could argue is that his text would reasonably make someone ditch him as their solicitor, which would be an action not in the client's interest.

From googling, it's clear bodies in other countries have written guidance on personal/sexual relationships but it's not so clear in ireland other than to say common sense dictates he shouldn't have done it.

antix80

[Deleted User] wrote: »

, there is also the fact that the solicitor has shown that he can't control his emotions, is susceptible to heavy drinking and he's possibly also going through financial difficulties considering his separation

Woah, Nelly!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

there is also the fact that the solicitor has shown that he can't control his emotions, is susceptible to heavy drinking and he's possibly also going through financial difficulties considering his separation.

Was he actually drunk? What are the indications of financial difficulties etc?

For all you know, he was stone cold sober and lonely, working late in the office to make sure the OP's friend got the best result. For all we know, his dedication to his career has ruined his marriage. We can easily speculate but the OP has really given very little information on what actually happened.

antix80

antix80 wrote: »

Woah, Nelly!

I've exaggerated nothing.

He clearly can't control his emotions as a professional, given his interest in his client, and the fact he drunk-texted her.

you need to drink heavily to get drunk in general- and it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that given his personal circumstances, he has turned to drink a bit more than he may normally have.

And he's going through a separation, which more than likely means financial pressures.

In other words, he has indicated to his client, in his words and actions, that he MAY not be as capable of carrying out her case to a successful conclusion- it's up to her to decide. If it were me, I'd want out of this because the solicitor clearly has personal problems and wouldn't come up to the standards of behaviour that i would want to see in place when dealing with my case.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Was he actually drunk? What are the indications of financial difficulties etc?

For all you know, he was stone cold sober and lonely, working late in the office to make sure the OP's friend got the best result. For all we know, his dedication to his career has ruined his marriage. We can easily speculate but the OP has really given very little information on what actually happened.

OP said "drunk text" in opening post.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

OP said "drunk text" in opening post.

So, the OP hasn't clarified how they know the solicitor was drunk when it was sent (though I may have missed it).

The solicitor in the OP sounds like a hard worker, working late hours on files, meeting clients after office hours, we can all speculate, buy why bother?

antix80

[Deleted User] wrote: »

OP said "drunk text" in opening post.

And she said "and presumably inebriated" In a subsequent post.

antix80

antix80 wrote: »

And she said "and presumably inebriated" In a subsequent post.

Scary to see one foolish text turned into a complete character assassination tbh.

boege

Megwepz wrote: »

To answer one poster above - yes, I had my mind made up about the solicitor prior to posting. As far as I'm concerned, it was highly unprofessional behaviour on his part and totally out of line and he could be reported for it - I'm not saying that he should, but he could.

To the poster that said to 'take it as a compliment' - unwarranted and unwelcome advances like this are not a compliment and women especially, not exclusively however, have to put up with far too much of it. My friend hired him to be her solicitor and represent her to the best of his professional ability, not so that he could view her in any sexual or romantic way, contact her in a flirtatious way while drunk and make her feel uncomfortable during any future appointments. For example, if I hired a taxi driver or masseuse or therapist I would absolutely expect them to be professional and not to be drunk texting in the same manner as this solicitor after I have finished the journey/appointment etc. There are many professions where this is completely inappropriate and law is one of them.

I was not asking whether fellow Boardsies thought the solicitors actions were inappropriate - I already know they were.

What I was asking for advice on was - should she stick out the discomfort and continue having him represent her in order to continue on with the case OR should she seek alternative representation and if she does, what sort of impact is that likely to have on the progress of her case.

How can the solicitor properly represent a client with whom there is the possibility that he holds some personal feelings. Professional detachment is vital for the sake of all involved.

He is compromised through his own actions and by continuing he is leaving himself open to a legal negligence case. By not offering to step back he is continuing to act unprofessionally.

Contact a reputable law firm and ask them about the possibility of taking over the case. Indicate that the relationship with your previous solicitor is compromised without sharing specifics. Go for a firm with a team of solicitors rather than a one man(person!) show.

If you live near a university maybe drop in and see if you can speak to someone in the Law School, if they have one. Broach the matter in general terms.

In short seek professional advice.

antix80

antix80 wrote: »

And she said "and presumably inebriated" In a subsequent post.

I haven't forensically looked at all posts- i took the opening post and went from there.

I'd actually understand the texting bit a lot less if you told me the solicitor was stone cold sober- pouring out his personal problems late in the evening to a client? Sorry, but I'd be running a mile at that point.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I haven't forensically looked at all posts- i took the opening post and went from there.

I'd actually understand the texting bit a lot less if you told me the solicitor was stone cold sober- pouring out his personal problems late in the evening to a client? Sorry, but I'd be running a mile at that point.

Depends what was actually said, though I agree it was foolish on his part.

Megwepz

boege wrote: »

Contact a reputable law firm and ask them about the possibility of taking over the case. Indicate that the relationship with your previous solicitor is compromised without sharing specifics. Go for a firm with a team of solicitors rather than a one man(person!) show.

If you live near a university maybe drop in and see if you can speak to someone in the Law School, if they have one. Broach the matter in general terms.

In short seek professional advice.

Thank you for the above advice. She has rang the Law Society and spoken to them anonymously. They advised that changing would most probably set her back as not only would she have to change solicitor but barrister also and court date could potentially be pushed out. She is awaiting advice from a friend in the legal field as well today but the likelihood is that she will have to stick with him in order to just get this court case done and dusted.

Thanks all for your advice

hullaballoo

Well, FWIW, if she does decide to change solicitors at this stage, she does not necessarily have to change barristers. In fact, that would be unusual. Normally, a new solicitor will retain the barrister already on the case. Only if the solicitor dislikes the barrister in question would it normally arise that they would seek to change counsel. Even in that case, as the client, your friend can instruct the solicitor to retain a specific barrister and the solicitor must instruct that barrister or withdraw from the case.

In my own view, although objectively it's a stupid thing for the solicitor to have done but perhaps not much more than that, if your friend really feels uncomfortable from her own perspective, it might be best to make a change. The solicitor/client relationship requires full and frank disclosure from client to solicitor. So subjectively, if your friend no longer feels that she trusts this solicitor and therefore may not be able to make full and frank disclosures where necessary, she might consider that despite the disruption it may cause in her case it is best to move on.

hullaballoo

hullaballoo wrote: »

Well, FWIW, if she does decide to change solicitors at this stage, she does not necessarily have to change barristers. In fact, that would be unusual. Normally, a new solicitor will retain the barrister already on the case. Only if the solicitor dislikes the barrister in question would it normally arise that they would seek to change counsel. Even in that case, as the client, your friend can instruct the solicitor to retain a specific barrister and the solicitor must instruct that barrister or withdraw from the case.

In my own view, although objectively it's a stupid thing for the solicitor to have done but perhaps not much more than that, if your friend really feels uncomfortable from her own perspective, it might be best to make a change. The solicitor/client relationship requires full and frank disclosure from client to solicitor. So subjectively, if your friend no longer feels that she trusts this solicitor and therefore may not be able to make full and frank disclosures where necessary, she might consider that despite the disruption it may cause in her case it is best to move on.

........she's been working with her current solicitor for 4.5 years FFS! - that's a considerable length of time - surely that means something, especially when she is in touching distance of her Court Case being heard? She has a lot to lose by dumping her solicitor at this stage, at the very least it will delay things.

Maybe after 4.5 years communicating and meeting she could be a little more objective about this one "slip" and move on for her own sake, for the sake of closure of her case and for peace of mind. Worse things will happen in life. This was not sexual harassment or sexual assault.

hullaballoo

Deleted User wrote: »

........she's been working with her current solicitor for 4.5 years FFS! - that's a considerable length of time - surely that means something, especially when she is in touching distance of her Court Case being heard? She has a lot to lose by dumping her solicitor at this stage, at the very least it will delay things.

Maybe after 4.5 years communicating and meeting she could be a little more objective about this one "slip" and move on for her own sake, for the sake of closure of her case and for peace of mind. Worse things will happen in life. This was not sexual harassment or sexual assault.

The 4.5 years issue might sound like a big deal but it would only take a new lawyer a few hours to read the file and consult with the OP's friend in order to be fully up-to-speed with the case.

Happens all the time, it's not as dramatic as people here are making out.

The only issue that could throw things off piste is that there would need to be an arrangement in respect of the solicitor's fees for work done to date before he releases the file. That can take many forms and would not necessarily mean having to adjourn the hearing date etc.

Overall, this thread is full of hyperbole and overreaction from all quarters, imo.

hullaballoo

hullaballoo wrote: »

Overall, this thread is full of hyperbole and overreaction from all quarters, imo.

If you're referring to my posts, and only if, then I would take issue with that comment- not in a confrontational aspect, just in a discussion aspect- which both this forum, and boards in general, is all about.

A solicitor is a paid service- a professional service- the OP's friend hasn't got that in terms of her experience- it's blatantly obvious that the solicitor in question -(and remember, this is a hypothetical or unnamed and unidentifiable solicitor which is why we can talk about it from a discussion perspective,) - had dropped their professional guard and has moved into personal issues-and on the balance of probabilities, in a drunken manner.
Coupled with their confessions of home/personal life, it's not unreasonable to assume as a client, that they are currently not best placed, or at the very least, have provided room for doubt in their clients mind, that the interests of their client won't be fully met.

Still waters

He must be an ugly bugger if it made her that uncomfortable, poor pet, how does she survive in the real world if she gets that upset over a simple text, my advice would be to get a different solicitor, delays be damned let her stand by her principles and switch solicitors if she's that upset over it

alibab

Megwepz wrote: »

Thank you for the above advice. She has rang the Law Society and spoken to them anonymously. They advised that changing would most probably set her back as not only would she have to change solicitor but barrister also and court date could potentially be pushed out. She is awaiting advice from a friend in the legal field as well today but the likelihood is that she will have to stick with him in order to just get this court case done and dusted.

Thanks all for your advice

I was going to say don’t believe the law society will care they won’t , and they won’t help either . More than likely onto Solictor already to say there had been a allegation etc . Closing ranks they are notorious for it . Stick it out because another solicitor won’t take it on unless you move county’s etc closed ranks .

Portsalon

Still waters wrote: »

He must be an ugly bugger if it made her that uncomfortable, poor pet, how does she survive in the real world if she gets that upset over a simple text, my advice would be to get a different solicitor, delays be damned let her stand by her principles and switch solicitors if she's that upset over it

And sue her previous solicitor for trauma and PTSD while she's at it! :pac:

Of course, it would be best if she switched to a gay male or heterosexual female solicitor, just to ensure that there's no chance of any late night, non case-related, texts occurring! And maybe, just to be on the safe side, she should wear a burqa to any future legal consultations.

Mod
OK, could we keep this to legal practice issues?

Portsalon

Portsalon wrote: »

Of course, it would be best if she switched to a gay male or heterosexual female solicitor, just to ensure that there's no chance of any late night, non case-related, texts occurring! And maybe, just to be on the safe side, she should wear a burqa to any future legal consultations.

Is it asking too much that she could go about her personal legal business, without getting a " come-on" from her solicitor?

Always Tired

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Scary to see one foolish text turned into a complete character assassination tbh.

if I had a life changing court case coming up I'd want my solicitor to have his focus on getting a result for me not getting the ride.

the whole thing puts his decision making into question, an important attribute for a solic

Heres Johnny

Very unprofessional of him, but not creepy at all like some are saying. I was a fecker for drunk texting. Shouldn't have done it until after court case but he made a mistake.
I met my now fiance while I was her rugby coach, we kept it quiet for a long time due to it possibly being seen as a conflict of interest and maybe inappropriate but I left team at end of that season, she stayed on and we went public.

Still waters

Always Tired wrote: »

if I had a life changing court case coming up I'd want my solicitor to have his focus on getting a result for me not getting the ride.

the whole thing puts his decision making into question, an important attribute for a solic

Who said his focus wasn't on the case, he texted her, apologised and is still being treated as a potential rapist/stalker/murderer, people need to get a grip, if she feels that strongly about it she should stand by her convictions and get another solicitor, but i think that's not going to happen

listermint

I wouldn't want the OP advising me as a friend for anything. It seems like everything is defcon 1.

It's been said many times. These two were very well aquatinted. You could even say probably friends after four and a half years. And he made 1 text and it wasn't received well. So he apologized. He is probably mortified too.


Advising your friend to anonymously contact the association is bad advise. There's nothing in this whole sorry episode that warranted that.

Embarrassing for all concerned including the OP.

Portsalon

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it asking too much that she could go about her personal legal business, without getting a " come-on" from her solicitor?

Absolutely not; however I think the inappropriateness of that has been well thrashed out in the previous 10,000 or so posts, and we've now moved on to what - if anything - she should do next.

thesiegeof

You have to be careful with advice from the internet, many men have become obsessed with downplaying any issues women face. She clearly felt the text was inappropriate, it was inappropriate and receiving drunk, creepy texts from someone you're paying big money to assist in a difficult situation is not on. That's the end of it. Advise her that she should report him and leave it up to her from there.

antix80

thesiegeof wrote: »

You have to be careful with advice from the internet, many men have become obsessed with downplaying any issues women face.

This sounds like a fun game..

Many women have become obsessed with exaggerating the issues they face. Brain-washed by advice they receive on the Internet.

thesiegeof

antix80 wrote: »

This sounds like a fun game..

Many women have become obsessed with exaggerating the issues they face. Brain-washed by advice they receive on the Internet.

It's not a game for the woman in this case, receiving unwarranted, drunk and creepy texts is not something she should tolerate. Especially from someone she is paying a lot of money to.

STB.

hullaballoo wrote: »

Overall, this thread is full of hyperbole and overreaction from all quarters, imo.

Hyperbole and overreaction. Well I have heard it all now. I gather the OP's friend has put their trust in their representation. That is now tarnished to say the least. I gather the OP's friend was expecting an apology at the very least.

Drunk texting or sober texting a client late at night about stuff nothing to do with a case is unprofessional at the very least. It would be a serious disciplinary matter if this solicitors employer heard about it.

"Advising her that he was separated, knows he shouldn't be texting her etc. etc".

What was the etc etc part OP.

antix80 wrote: »

Many women have become obsessed with exaggerating the issues they face. Brain-washed by advice they receive on the Internet.

Well that doesn't seem to be the case here, so I'd keep those Neanderthal ideas in your head, tough guy.

Portsalon

thesiegeof wrote: »

It's not a game for the woman in this case, receiving unwarranted, drunk and creepy texts is not something she should tolerate. Especially from someone she is paying a lot of money to.

The word "texts" is a plural. The woman in this case received a single text that she deemed to be inappropriate and that you deem to be "creepy". She demanded and received an apology for it the next day.

Hence your post refers to a situation that has yet to occur. If and when it does, I have absolutely no doubt that she'll follow your wise advice.

Incidentally, given that it appears to be a long-running compensation case, her solicitor's fee will be coming from the insurer or the other party, not from the lady herself.

longgonesilver

Was there anything in the text of the apology that indicated that the text was actually intended for your friend?
It can be very easy, especially when drunk to send a text to the wrong contact in your phone. Still inappropriate if the other woman was a client.