Advice: Become a teacher

Treppen

paleoperson wrote: »

Because they are likeable and interesting people, and for some subjects like history or science knew their subject very well. Very little to do with teacher training.

Also it's not like they're filtering out the bad teachers. It's like picking straws which one you're going to get. You know French or the Science syllabus backwards and forwards and you're set.



A better analogy to me seems more like taxi-driving or multi-drop driving when you are only familiar with personal driving. I'm sure it takes a while to get good, but at the end of the day it's the same game.

Your talking about mere content knowledge. You can get most of that on wikipedia.

Teachers need Pedagogical content knowledge add some child/adolescent psychology and simmer with a background in sociology while you're at it.

You're telling teachers on here that they don't know their own job as well as you do.

Even Dunning–Kruger would be scratching their heads at the hurlers on the ditch in this thread.

MrMusician18

Treppen wrote: »

So you reckon it only becomes cushy at point 12?

That's obviously not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if I could transfer across at the same level of seniority i'd change, in a heartbeat. Even though it would involve a substantial paycut, the holidays and work life balance would be worth it.

However, I like many people, wouldn't be able to justify/afford two years out of work to be in full time education, to be then effectively starting at the bottom of the career ladder again. It's a huge barrier to career change, one that the "if teaching is so handy, why don't you do it" brigade fail to acknowledge.

That barrier still doesn't mean that teaching isn't a relatively cushy number.

paleoperson

Treppen wrote: »

Your talking about mere content knowledge. You can get most of that on wikipedia.

Teachers need Pedagogical content knowledge add some child/adolescent psychology and simmer with a background in sociology while you're at it.

You're telling teachers on here that they don't know their own job as well as you do.

Even Dunning–Kruger would be scratching their heads at the hurlers on the ditch in this thread.

At this point Treppen, I'm just laughing.

griffin100

paleoperson wrote: »

At this point Treppen, I'm just laughing.

A simpleton is easily amused.

Austria!

What are the prospects of some 25 year old with an arts degree become a teacher? How do you do it?

Treppen

Austria! wrote: »

What are the prospects of some 25 year old with an arts degree become a teacher? How do you do it?

Primary?
Secondary?
What subjects?
What location are you living in?

Prospects.... Pot luck but can depend on the above

If it's primary and you have male genetalia ...Do you or have you ever played county?

Know anyone?

Do you own a town or chipvan?

Treppen

paleoperson wrote: »

At this point Treppen, I'm just laughing.

I don't think your mummy would appreciate that sort of carry on in my class...
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... and I'm well aware of what mummy appreciates.

Hector Savage

Biggest bunch of moaners, and they make FANTASTIC money considering the 12 hour weeks and 4 months holidays.

Snow Garden

Secondary school teachers work hard for 114 days of the year.

Snow Garden

Treppen wrote: »

If it's primary and you have male genetalia

Curious - how would this help prospects?

joe40

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's obviously not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if I could transfer across at the same level of seniority i'd change, in a heartbeat. Even though it would involve a substantial paycut, the holidays and work life balance would be worth it.

However, I like many people, wouldn't be able to justify/afford two years out of work to be in full time education, to be then effectively starting at the bottom of the career ladder again. It's a huge barrier to career change, one that the "if teaching is so handy, why don't you do it" brigade fail to acknowledge.

That barrier still doesn't mean that teaching isn't a relatively cushy number.

There are without a doubt plenty of more stressful careers than teaching, but would not go so far as to call teaching "cushy".

I made the decision to enter teaching after 5 years in industry (Chemical company in England) so was in late 20's but still young enough to make the change but old enough to take things like stability, work life balance, pension etc into account.

It is a bit rich listening to people in their 30s or 40s moan about how easy teaching is but too late for them to make the change.

Exactly when did you find out that teachers got good holidays. when did the realisation hit?

Teachers, like everyone else made career choices based on a lot of factors.

In terms of "cushy number" I have worked in industry, building sites, farms, but in terms of stress and tiredness a hard day teaching is well up there.

Saying all that, some teachers do like to moan a bit too much.
If you're suited to the career, teaching is a good job, not cushy, but good.

Treppen

Snow Garden wrote: »

Curious - how would this help prospects?

Google " Why are so many GAA players becoming teachers? An Irish solution to an Irish problem "

r93kaey5p2izun

Snow Garden wrote: »

Secondary school teachers work hard for 114 days of the year.

167 actually.

Treppen

Lailah Whining Thresher wrote: »

167 actually.

I work evenings lunchtimes and weekends too. Then there's a few courses I do myself on Saturdays and during the summer.

Not flat out but I find it hard to remember a time when I came home and didn't open the laptop and start with tests and prep.

Sure the holidays are good, but that's it.
I wouldn't advise any student to do it unless money wasn't a worry for them.

myshirt

I went to college with a lady who pulled a right fast one when she qualified. She basically taught for about 5 months across 5 years (5 out of 60 months) and got paid for the lot!

Maternity leave, holidays, sick pay, etc etc.

Now there's an excellent gig. I

I'm all for workers rights, and hey your union type might jump down your throat at the thought you'd chip at those, but the fact here is this:

Someone is having a laugh here; and someone has to pay for it.

Which camp are you in?

Fact is most don't even know which one they are. So many people floating about thinking "sher it doesn't affect me".

Good god people. Good god. People give out about boards.ie going down the gutter, but I'll tell you if there is one thing to be proud of about boards (right after captain midnights posts) it's that boards stands tall as the forum to call out the bullsh't that goes on in the Public service and the brass necks of those within the union movement.

Treppen

myshirt wrote: »

I went to college with a lady who pulled a right fast one when she qualified. She basically taught for about 5 months across 5 years (5 out of 60 months) and got paid for the lot!

Maternity leave, holidays, sick pay, etc etc.

Now there's an excellent gig. I

I'm all for workers rights, and hey your union type might jump down your throat at the thought you'd chip at those, but the fact here is this:

Someone is having a laugh here; and someone has to pay for it.

Which camp are you in?

Fact is most don't even know which one they are. So many people floating about thinking "sher it doesn't affect me".

Good god people. Good god. People give out about boards.ie going down the gutter, but I'll tell you if there is one thing to be proud of about boards (right after captain midnights posts) it's that boards stands tall as the forum to call out the bullsh't that goes on in the Public service and the brass necks of those within the union movement.

What, She got 5 years out of having a baby?

I don't remember that gestation period for humans.

I smell bs

Insect Overlord

myshirt wrote: »

Someone is having a laugh here; and someone has to pay for it.

Hey, dude! _/

myshirt

Treppen wrote: »

What, She got 5 years out of having a baby?

I don't remember that gestation period for humans.

I smell bs

Ah use your brain will you. She had more than one baby.

Between maternity leave, mid term breaks, sick leave (maternity related perhaps), and summer holidays etc etc, all the bells and whistles, she worked ballpark 5 months in 5 years.

MrMusician18

Treppen wrote: »

What, She got 5 years out of having a baby?

I don't remember that gestation period for humans.

I smell bs

Presumably she was banging out the babbies.

Back in my day, some 20 years ago now, there was a teacher in our school that had a few fortuitously times pregnancies that meant she was on near permanent maternity leave. Back for a couple of months, then off again.

Inspector Coptoor

Snow Garden wrote: »

Secondary school teachers work hard for 114 days of the year.

😂😂

It’s 167 days of contact time plus 33 Croke Park hours and 46 hours S&S which equates to another 4 weeks work.

Teachers in ireland have never had as any hours of work and have never had as many deductions on their pay slips.

It’s a good job and I enjoy it.

I wouldn’t and couldn’t do it if I didn’t enjoy it.

beggars_bush

How did I miss this thread?

Treppen

beggars_bush wrote: »

How did I miss this thread?

Don't worry therell always be dogs in mangers

Treppen

myshirt wrote: »

Ah use your brain will you. She had more than one baby.

Between maternity leave, mid term breaks, sick leave (maternity related perhaps), and summer holidays etc etc, all the bells and whistles, she worked ballpark 5 months in 5 years.

So what's wrong with having babies, Should female teachers be sterilised or something?

Are they not allowed to be sick either?

Jaysus the bitterness is fierce in this one.

Treppen

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Presumably she was banging out the babbies.

Back in my day, some 20 years ago now, there was a teacher in our school that had a few fortuitously times pregnancies that meant she was on near permanent maternity leave. Back for a couple of months, then off again.

What, women having the cheek to take maternity leave?

Well, I, never!

Shur don't they have two boobs, she could have used them just right after giving birth and been in mammy's precious' class the next day.

Poor diddums... It's obvious this lack of education has effected you very badly.

Ja want some grinds to catch up?

myshirt

Treppen wrote: »

So what's wrong with having babies, Should female teachers be sterilised or something?

Are they not allowed to be sick either?

Jaysus the bitterness is fierce in this one.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking maternity leave. It's paying her the full wage for the time off AND giving that level of holidays on top of it. And the wage itself. Teachers are way overpaid. Way, way overpaid. Something is seriously wrong if you can work no more than 5 months in 5 years and get paid a full wage plus pension when the country barely had a washer in it's arse pocket. And that wasn't even good enough for them, they went on to f"ck over their younger members to keep the gravy train going. It's insane and not something which is financially prudent. It's pure thuggery from the unions.

The three months off school was originally designed so kids could help on the farm. How outdated is that?
Good Friday was a day off so country people could travel home as it took about 5 hours to get to Mayo from Dublin at one point. Again how dated is that? 30 grand straight out of college, or 50 grand on a FTE basis, plus pension. We don't teach finance in this country at an early age for a reason. But we do teach finance at some stage, and the game is up for these f*ckers in the next 10 years as the younger people they screwed over filter through.

Examine why Trump got in in the States. Without any deep analysis the underlying theme is the same. Young people disenfranchised and locked out of economic participation by the older generation and those pulling the levers of power. In the States it's certain people. In Ireland it's the unions and the public sector generation in the 45+ age category today.

shesty

They no longer get holidays on top of mat leave.If mat leave runs during the holidays it is just mat leave now.
My company paid my mat leave as do many others, private and public.I think you're barking up wrong tree there to be honest.
I do think secondary schools could move to work through the month of June nowadays though.

Wanderer78

myshirt wrote:

Examine why Trump got in in the States. Without any deep analysis the underlying theme is the same. Young people disenfranchised and locked out of economic participation by the older generation and those pulling the levers of power. In the States it's certain people. In Ireland it's the unions and the public sector generation in the 45+ age category today.

Its interesting that since the deunionisation of our economies over the last couple of decades, wage inflation has remained low, stagnant in some cases, precarious employment has increased, severally in some cases, and inequality has grown dramatically. Maybe there is something with all this collective bargaining after all!

shesty

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's not that they think it's going to be easier, they say that it IS easier. The one individual I mentioned sacrificed 10 years of progression in construction, where he commanded a wage in excess of €55k, to start again, at the bottom, as a teacher. He was under no illusion that he would have to go to the bottom of the ladder, but that lost earning opportunity vs his existing developed career was a price he was willing to pay for the easier life and the holidays - the perks of the job.

By the time it dawns on people just how handy teachers have it, it is simply not viable for them to essentially junk the career they have built to start teaching. So when people say "if you think teaching is so great, then why don't you do it", it's not an argument at all. If I could however swap my current job with teaching at point 12 on the permanent scale, then yeah, I,like most people in ordinary 9-5 jobs would jump at that.

If you had worked in construction, particularly through the recession, you would not even think of where you were on the wage scale before you decided to change career.

It wasn't just how great a job teaching was.It's because they take your whole life in construction, and you can't lose your job in teaching (unless you put serious effort into it), the way you can in an instant in construction.

square ball

shesty wrote: »

They no longer get holidays on top of mat leave.If mat leave runs during the holidays it is just mat leave now.
My company paid my mat leave as do many others, private and public.I think you're barking up wrong tree there to be honest.
I do think secondary schools could move to work through the month of June nowadays though.

But do you get a paid 3 month holiday if you returned from maternity leave a week or two before the end of the school year?

emilymemily

myshirt wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking maternity leave. It's paying her the full wage for the time off AND giving that level of holidays on top of it. And the wage itself. Teachers are way overpaid. Way, way overpaid. Something is seriously wrong if you can work no more than 5 months in 5 years and get paid a full wage plus pension when the country barely had a washer in it's arse pocket. And that wasn't even good enough for them, they went on to f"ck over their younger members to keep the gravy train going. It's insane and not something which is financially prudent. It's pure thuggery from the unions.

The three months off school was originally designed so kids could help on the farm. How outdated is that?
Good Friday was a day off so country people could travel home as it took about 5 hours to get to Mayo from Dublin at one point. Again how dated is that? 30 grand straight out of college, or 50 grand on a FTE basis, plus pension. We don't teach finance in this country at an early age for a reason. But we do teach finance at some stage, and the game is up for these f*ckers in the next 10 years as the younger people they screwed over filter through.

Examine why Trump got in in the States. Without any deep analysis the underlying theme is the same. Young people disenfranchised and locked out of economic participation by the older generation and those pulling the levers of power. In the States it's certain people. In Ireland it's the unions and the public sector generation in the 45+ age category today.

If its so good why dont you become a teacher?

Treppen

shesty wrote: »

If you had worked in construction, particularly through the recession, you would not even think of where you were on the wage scale before you decided to change career.

It wasn't just how great a job teaching was.It's because they take your whole life in construction, and you can't lose your job in teaching (unless you put serious effort into it), the way you can in an instant in construction.

Construction is tough no doubt. But when it's not a bust time and you've a good name people are throwing money at you.

But when economies go bust some people would be happy if teachers were let go too... not realising that children still need an education.

Treppen

myshirt wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking maternity leave. It's paying her the full wage for the time off AND giving that level of holidays on top of it. And the wage itself. Teachers are way overpaid. Way, way overpaid. Something is seriously wrong if you can work no more than 5 months in 5 years and get paid a full wage plus pension when the country barely had a washer in it's arse pocket. And that wasn't even good enough for them, they went on to f"ck over their younger members to keep the gravy train going. It's insane and not something which is financially prudent. It's pure thuggery from the unions.

The three months off school was originally designed so kids could help on the farm. How outdated is that?
Good Friday was a day off so country people could travel home as it took about 5 hours to get to Mayo from Dublin at one point. Again how dated is that? 30 grand straight out of college, or 50 grand on a FTE basis, plus pension. We don't teach finance in this country at an early age for a reason. But we do teach finance at some stage, and the game is up for these f*ckers in the next 10 years as the younger people they screwed over filter through.

Examine why Trump got in in the States. Without any deep analysis the underlying theme is the same. Young people disenfranchised and locked out of economic participation by the older generation and those pulling the levers of power. In the States it's certain people. In Ireland it's the unions and the public sector generation in the 45+ age category today.

Actually it's not 30k straight out of college but if all you know about is the pay scale then you should really talk to a few teachers. This thread is like going to a crap clairvoyant.


But anyway, cut to the chase.
What do you think teachers should be paid... Give a number and Payscale over 4 decades?

Treppen

Are we done now?

Any questions?

MrMusician18

emilymemily wrote: »

If its so good why dont you become a teacher?

:rolleyes:

myshirt

emilymemily wrote: »

If its so good why dont you become a teacher?

You are looking at it through the entirely wrong prism.
Unlike the scumbags in the union movement decent Irish people don't get off on f"cking others over or look to steal a living on the back of the upcoming generation.

There is loads of money to be made in many places, but ethics is the issue. Teaching is a noble profession, but personally I couldn't be a teacher and get paid what they are paid for so little work. The guilt would overwhelm me. I don't say that tongue in cheek. I mean it. This isn't all about the self. When you ask a question like if it's so good why don't you do it yourself, you are grabbing the completely wrong end of the stick.

What you have with teaching is a bunch of scumbags within the union movement, a couple of scumbags in the profession itself, but a large majority that are complicit via their silence / taking the paycheque / life circumstances. Right in the mix you have some very decent people doing a noble job, and you have young teachers who are often better qualified than the older ones, but not getting a job. To answer your earlier question I'd cut their pensions almost completely, and I'd work them during the summer. I'd freeze their wages and I'd actively hire the younger teachers, albeit at no more than 25 grand a piece but with performance bonuses as they progress through a career.

byhookorbycrook

myshirt wrote: »

Right in the mix you have some very decent people doing a noble job, and you have young teachers who are often better qualified than the older ones, but not getting a job. To answer your earlier question I'd cut their pensions almost completely, and I'd work them during the summer. I'd freeze their wages and I'd actively hire the younger teachers, albeit at no more than 25 grand a piece but with performance bonuses as they progress through a career.

I've paid into my pension since I was 20 and make no excuse to anyone who envies what I will eventually get as a return on this.Very few 20 year olds start a pension , saying they couldn't afford it, I had no choice.

Good luck finding any graduate who will spend 4 years in college for €25k after.

How do you propose to rate "performance?"

MrMusician18

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I've paid into my pension since I was 20 and make no excuse to anyone who envies what I will eventually get as a return on this.Very few 20 year olds start a pension , saying they couldn't afford it, I had no choice.

Good luck finding any graduate who will spend 4 years in college for €25k after.

How do you propose to rate "performance?"

Underperformance should be relatively easy to identify, at least it was in my day. In secondary, I was in a mixed ability class, the top students shouldn't have needed grinds in English when they were excelling in other subjects. Just by canvassing the students on what subjects they were receiving grinds in would point to underperformance of certain teachers.

I think when you have the top 50% getting extra outside tuition and those that are not really lagging would point to an issue with the teacher. The teachers know themselves who the ****e ones are in their school.

Teachers won't stand up and identify the under performers though. Sure they threw the NQTs under the bus to protect themselves.

emilymemily

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I've paid into my pension since I was 20 and make no excuse to anyone who envies what I will eventually get as a return on this.Very few 20 year olds start a pension , saying they couldn't afford it, I had no choice.

Good luck finding any graduate who will spend 4 years in college for €25k after.

How do you propose to rate "performance?"

It's actually 6 years + additional qualifications. 4 year Undergrad and 2 year masters in Primary or post primary education, most teachers these days have completed additional postgrad diplomas and masters in areas like SEN, ABA psychology, Irish, English and additional masters in education alongside their undergrad and teaching qualification.
Teachers sub for years before getting permanency and don't get paid for Summers or holidays, by the time they get permanency they well deserve the wages they get after putting 10+ years into the profession.

myshirt

Sher accountants came out at 12-15 grand a year during the same period, and you typically have a much better quality candidate there.

If any teacher had a problem with the 23k I'd offer them, then I'd introduce college fees payback. If they work in the State for 5 years (23k to an eventual 30k) they can get a discount on the fees to pay back. If not then they pay the full amount. It's a global financial world; dare they try sting the state that bad credit will follow them around.

Trust me, byhookorbycrook anything you've thought of you can be sure the rest of us have an answer. Your pension gone, and the new starts on no more than there or there abouts 23k. It will happen. The game is up. Scoff all you want. Pure thuggery from the union movement.

Insect Overlord

myshirt wrote: »

Trust me, byhookorbycrook anything you've thought of you can be sure the rest of us have an answer. Your pension gone, and the new starts on no more than there or there abouts 23k. It will happen. The game is up. Scoff all you want. Pure thuggery from the union movement.

When did you turn into such a ruthless fascist?

Treppen

Insect Overlord wrote: »

When did you turn into such a ruthless fascist?

I think it's just projecting their own sad life.

Treppen

myshirt wrote: »

...
but personally I couldn't be a teacher...

In a nutshell

Treppen

myshirt wrote: »

Sher accountants came out at 12-15 grand a year during the same period, and you typically have a much better quality candidate there.

If any teacher had a problem with the 23k I'd offer them, then I'd introduce college fees payback. If they work in the State for 5 years (23k to an eventual 30k) they can get a discount on the fees to pay back. If not then they pay the full amount. It's a global financial world; dare they try sting the state that bad credit will follow them around.

Trust me, byhookorbycrook anything you've thought of you can be sure the rest of us have an answer. Your pension gone, and the new starts on no more than there or there abouts 23k. It will happen. The game is up. Scoff all you want. Pure thuggery from the union movement.

Would you be happy then?

Abbey127

o1s1n wrote: »

If you actually boil it down to hours of work versus pay it's not bad at all.

Take a 60k private sector worker versus a 38k teacher.

60,000 a year is 5,000 a month, for 12 months.

38,000 a year is 3,166 a month over 12 months, however they're not working 12 months.

Remove the summer holidays and it's 4,222 a month for the 9 months worked.

If you started removing other holidays, like mid term/term breaks, not to mention 2:30pm finishes, it would just go up and up.

Could easily spend the off time doing another job if you really wanted to earn more.

Alot of people dont make 60k let alone after tax , if are making 60k a year would be getting 100k before tax so 60k after tax is only 3,495 a month and 41,937 a year I would definitely pick a job I love over money and be dreading going to work .

Crock Rock

I feel the same way as the OP. It is indeed a very cushy job. You also retire for life on your final salary.

Before anyone asks me why I didn't become a teacher, I couldn't afford the hDip when I graduated now I have the money but I have a family and a house to pay for so can't take the two years out.

Graces7

Geuze wrote: »

Outside cities, the wages are ok.

But you won't get a permanent FT job after graduation.

Also, and this is the main point, if secondary, you have to face teenagers every day.

You are part social-worker, part psychologist.

The discipline issues can be serious.

I taught several decades ago in England in girls grammar schools , when pupils were well behaved and discipline problems few; except maybe last period Fridays!

When the system changed to comprehensive with huge numbers in schools that changed. And today's teenagers are very different.

Teachers now deserve medals. They really do. It is far far more than imparting skills and knowledge but that has to be done too.

KiKi III

Teachers work pretty hard during term time for very average money. Overall, with the holidays and pension etc, I’d say it works out as a pretty sweet deal but I do think they have a tough job.

My pet peeve with teachers is that they often refuse to acknowledge all the benefits they get compared with private sector workers.

They don’t seem to understand that there are many jobs where you’re expected to put extra hours in at the weekend or in the evening.

Crock Rock

Their starting salary of €34k is only for 9 months work.

So it's equivalent to earning roughly €45k.

Abbey127

99problems1 wrote: »

Yep.

"we have to deal with cranky parents."

People on minimum wage in retail have to deal with just as bad if not worse cases. That's the thing I'm talking about, no real world experience.

Teachers think they're the only ones faced with adversity. They think everyone getting on great without fuss is how things are expected to be and a parent complaining is some awful experience.

Imagine the lads in Eir or Virgin media customer service and you'll know about difficult customers then.

You can always just hang up on customers lol happens all the time chance of getting same person again is slim .

Graces7

KiKi III wrote: »

Teachers work pretty hard during term time for very average money. Overall, with the holidays and pension etc, I’d say it works out as a pretty sweet deal but I do think they have a tough job.

My pet peeve with teachers is that they often refuse to acknowledge all the benefits they get compared with private sector workers.

They don’t seem to understand that there are many jobs where you’re expected to put extra hours in at the weekend or in the evening.[/QUOTE]

I well recall many evenings spent marking work... preparing lessons..Please reverse what I have bolded! Back at you!