Ireland vs Switzerland, Euro 2020 qualifier, RTE2 & Sky Sports Main Event, 7:45pm

Father Hernandez

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I mean, do you not tire yourself out with this ****e? We’re closing in on 12 years of the same repetitive conversation. ‘Why can’t Ireland get it on the deck’; ‘why isn’t player X (used to be Andy Reid, now it’s Arter apparently) on the pitch?’; ‘that stalwart with the near 100 caps or more (it used to be Kilbane, it’s now Whelan, but it’s always *someone*) is ****e, he wouldn’t get a game for Finn Harps’.

But my personal favourite is ‘see, why can’t they do that all the time?’ when the lads play way above and beyond themselves in a key moment, generally every two years or so.

You’ve had three bloody regimes and have nearly gone through two generations of players and ye still can’t drill reality into your metal skulls. We’re not as good as our opponents. We’re third seeds for a reason. We have no Champions League / Europa League players and every year more of the squad plies their trade away from the top level. Maybe Trapp was an idiot. But are Trapp, his assistants, O’Neill, Keane, McCarthy and his staff all idiots? All of them? And you, mr. ****ing armchair, slating lads like McClean and Whelan and whoever else are right all this time? **** off.

So yeah, I am happy with the draw last night. We’re bringing this group down to the wire, scratching and clawing for every point. All I ask and expect is their best and they give that to us every time. Lansdowne was rocking last night towards the end because for the second game in a row these lads refused to be beaten by technically superior opposition. And if they keep not getting beat, they might just get to play in the big show at home. Get behind it, it might just be class.

Well said.

That 15 seconds of pure euphoria in Lansdowne last night is what I go to games for.

You just never know with ourselves.

pjohnson

Imagine the outrage if Whelans shot had actually gone in :pac:

smelly sock

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I mean, do you not tire yourself out with this ****e? We’re closing in on 12 years of the same repetitive conversation. ‘Why can’t Ireland get it on the deck’; ‘why isn’t player X (used to be Andy Reid, now it’s Arter apparently) on the pitch?’; ‘that stalwart with the near 100 caps or more (it used to be Kilbane, it’s now Whelan, but it’s always *someone*) is ****e, he wouldn’t get a game for Finn Harps’.

But my personal favourite is ‘see, why can’t they do that all the time?’ when the lads play way above and beyond themselves in a key moment, generally every two years or so.

You’ve had three bloody regimes and have nearly gone through two generations of players and ye still can’t drill reality into your metal skulls. We’re not as good as our opponents. We’re third seeds for a reason. We have no Champions League / Europa League players and every year more of the squad plies their trade away from the top level. Maybe Trapp was an idiot. But are Trapp, his assistants, O’Neill, Keane, McCarthy and his staff all idiots? All of them? And you, mr. ****ing armchair, slating lads like McClean and Whelan and whoever else are right all this time? **** off.

So yeah, I am happy with the draw last night. We’re bringing this group down to the wire, scratching and clawing for every point. All I ask and expect is their best and they give that to us every time. Lansdowne was rocking last night towards the end because for the second game in a row these lads refused to be beaten by technically superior opposition. And if they keep not getting beat, they might just get to play in the big show at home. Get behind it, it might just be class.

That's a serious rant in response to someone suggesting we can and have played better with a different team selection. if you're not able to accept that a forum will have differing opinions to your own then maybe you shouldn't come on here.

You are just happy with not getting bet. With a securing a home point and living to survive another day. I am brave enough to suggest that we can perhaps do a little better than that. Nothing wrong with wanting to be more ambitious than we currently are. Your small time attitude stems from being told by the like of Trap and O'Neill that we are just not good enough and this is the way we have to play.

Bit of a Roy keane rant if we're honest with each other.

smelly sock

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It is absolutely outrageous that people can’t appreciate his value. Or that - after all these years and all these different staffs picking him - that they wouldn’t maybe question that they are wrong on the subject. Maddening.

Whelan played well in small patches last night. So did most of the team.

Can we do better or should we just accept that?

Father Hernandez

smelly sock wrote: »

Why dont they just go 4-4-2 and all out hoof and be done with it.

Stop pretending to be something we're not.

smelly sock wrote: »

It does highlight the dearth in talent doesnt it. Alan Judge.

smelly sock wrote: »

Ffs. We are ****e. Just pure ****e.

smelly sock wrote: »

Irish players are just not good enough. Dont posses the talent or brain to create anything.

smelly sock wrote: »

Its starting to hit home now. Trap, oneil and mccarthy.

The players we have are not good enough.

smelly sock wrote: »

No we didnt play. Be honest. We were just a little less rank than usual.

smelly sock wrote: »

That was shocking. Appalling. A good point yes but **** me we are dreadfully limited and poor.

smelly sock wrote: »

That's a serious rant in response to someone suggesting we can and have played better with a different team selection. if you're not able to accept that a forum will have differing opinions to your own then maybe you shouldn't come on here.

You are just happy with not getting bet. With a securing a home point and living to survive another day. I am brave enough to suggest that we can perhaps do a little better than that. Nothing wrong with wanting to be more ambitious than we currently are. Your small time attitude stems from being told by the like of Trap and O'Neill that we are just not good enough and this is the way we have to play.

Bit of a Roy keane rant if we're honest with each other.

Your posts have been extremely contradictory in the last 24 hours. You've even mentioned we are not good enough yet still think we can do better, which is it?

We're fans and won't stop supporting our country but be real, we are limited, we know we are and again you've admitted it.

A good draw I'm happy with and we fight again another day. COYBIG

smelly sock

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Your posts have been extremely contradictory in the last 24 hours. You've even mentioned we are not good enough yet still think we can do better, which is it?

We're fans and won't stop supporting our country but be real, we are limited, we know we are and again you've admitted it.

A good draw I'm happy with and we fight again another day. COYBIG

I think to be fair last night the posts were in the heat of the moment. I think we can do better in periods of games. I think Whelan done well in patches last night but there are better options.

I think we needed a win last night. I can't see us beating them away or the Danes at home.

pjohnson

The excuse that Whelan is holding players back for Ireland is amusing mainly because of the fact these midfielders arent exactly that much better without him. Or are the just suffering PTSD from their time with Whelan that prevents Hourihane and Hendrick from getting into the Burnley and Aston Villa sides?

TheCitizen

smelly sock wrote: »

I think to be fair last night the posts were in the heat of the moment. I think we can do better in periods of games. I think Whelan done well in patches last night but there are better options.

I think we needed a win last night. I can't see us beating them away or the Danes at home.

If it goes to the last game and we qualify if we beat Denmark, I think we'll do it. If we beat Georgia that will set that up I think.

johnnyryan89

TheCitizen wrote: »

If it goes to the last game and we qualify if we beat Denmark, I think we'll do it. If we beat Georgia that will set that up I think.

We have to beat Georgia away. If we get the win away to Georgia, Switzerland and Denmark don't draw in their game then two draws in our final two games will do us. Switzerland beating Denmark is probably better for us and makes that final home game against Denmark massive.

D.Q

3 Enda Stevens
An early booking means he’ll be suspended for the trip to Georgia and he’ll be missed as he’s settled nicely into the left-back role. He got forward a bit more than usual and delivered some dangerous crosses. Looks solid and definitely Ireland’s best option in that position. Rating: 7.

Irish times ratings. Hopefully its out of 100.

johnnyryan89

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I mean, do you not tire yourself out with this ****e? We’re closing in on 12 years of the same repetitive conversation. ‘Why can’t Ireland get it on the deck’; ‘why isn’t player X (used to be Andy Reid, now it’s Arter apparently) on the pitch?’; ‘that stalwart with the near 100 caps or more (it used to be Kilbane, it’s now Whelan, but it’s always *someone*) is ****e, he wouldn’t get a game for Finn Harps’.

But my personal favourite is ‘see, why can’t they do that all the time?’ when the lads play way above and beyond themselves in a key moment, generally every two years or so.

You’ve had three bloody regimes and have nearly gone through two generations of players and ye still can’t drill reality into your metal skulls. We’re not as good as our opponents. We’re third seeds for a reason. We have no Champions League / Europa League players and every year more of the squad plies their trade away from the top level. Maybe Trapp was an idiot. But are Trapp, his assistants, O’Neill, Keane, McCarthy and his staff all idiots? All of them? And you, mr. ****ing armchair, slating lads like McClean and Whelan and whoever else are right all this time? **** off.

So yeah, I am happy with the draw last night. We’re bringing this group down to the wire, scratching and clawing for every point. All I ask and expect is their best and they give that to us every time. Lansdowne was rocking last night towards the end because for the second game in a row these lads refused to be beaten by technically superior opposition. And if they keep not getting beat, they might just get to play in the big show at home. Get behind it, it might just be class.

Whelan gets a lot of unfair criticism. I'll hold my hand up and say I've criticised him before but more so when watching games but that's common because you're reacting to certain things as they happen. It's when you wait a day and watch things again with a clear head you see how stupid you were. The funniest and most dumfounded criticism though is how he's holding our midfield back and how others will suddenly become better players if he wasn't playing. Stoke managers never thought that and oh how they could do with someone like Whelan in midfield seeing how far they've fallen.

I'd love to see the passing stats under Mick and other managers because last night it seemed like we wanted to pass it around more than usual. Now I think in time we can improve and become a better team technically, only need to look at some of the football our underage teams are playing to see that but that just didn't happen overnight and took years of coaching to see the improvements and it's gonna probably be another ten years minimum before we see the improvements at underage maybe take effect at senior level. It's a slow process that takes time, try to rush it and you risk setting things back a few years.

corcaigh07

0-1 to Georgia, 1-1 to the Swiss away and 0-0 to the Danes and hope the Danes beat the Swiss.

It’s on, these guys are limited but they don’t give up. Hopefully Long and some of the youngsters get some minutes soon to bolster our badly lacking options upfront.

Jimbob1977

I was at the match last night.

Ireland only seem to start playing when we are forced to. We are reactionary, when we could be proactive.

The Swiss goal sparked Ireland into life and showed what we're capable of. If we started in that vein, we could have taken more.

Switzerland's world ranking is not a true reflection of their ability. They are very average. However, their goal was beautifully worked. Lovely touches.

If we beat Georgia and avoid defeat in Switzerland, we will be virtually there.

Coillte_Bhoy

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I was at the match last night.

Ireland only seem to start playing when we are forced to. We are reactionary, when we could be proactive.

The Swiss goal sparked Ireland into life and showed what we're capable of. If we started in that vein, we could have taken more.

Switzerland's world ranking is not a true reflection of their ability. They are very average. However, their goal was beautifully worked. Lovely touches.

If we beat Georgia and avoid defeat in Switzerland, we will be virtually there.

And get at least a draw V Denmark surely?

artanevilla

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I was at the match last night.

Ireland only seem to start playing when we are forced to. We are reactionary, when we could be proactive.

The Swiss goal sparked Ireland into life and showed what we're capable of. If we started in that vein, we could have taken more.

Switzerland's world ranking is not a true reflection of their ability. They are very average. However, their goal was beautifully worked. Lovely touches.

If we beat Georgia and avoid defeat in Switzerland, we will be virtually there.

If.

Virtually.

MrMusician18

Disgraceful attendance last night. People giving that shower money should remember that they are defacto endorsing their behaviour.

Given what we know, anyone attending last night really had lost the right to be critical of the way the FAI does it's business.

FatherTed

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I mean, do you not tire yourself out with this ****e? We’re closing in on 12 years of the same repetitive conversation. ‘Why can’t Ireland get it on the deck’; ‘why isn’t player X (used to be Andy Reid, now it’s Arter apparently) on the pitch?’; ‘that stalwart with the near 100 caps or more (it used to be Kilbane, it’s now Whelan, but it’s always *someone*) is ****e, he wouldn’t get a game for Finn Harps’.

But my personal favourite is ‘see, why can’t they do that all the time?’ when the lads play way above and beyond themselves in a key moment, generally every two years or so.

You’ve had three bloody regimes and have nearly gone through two generations of players and ye still can’t drill reality into your metal skulls. We’re not as good as our opponents. We’re third seeds for a reason. We have no Champions League / Europa League players and every year more of the squad plies their trade away from the top level. Maybe Trapp was an idiot. But are Trapp, his assistants, O’Neill, Keane, McCarthy and his staff all idiots? All of them? And you, mr. ****ing armchair, slating lads like McClean and Whelan and whoever else are right all this time? **** off.

So yeah, I am happy with the draw last night. We’re bringing this group down to the wire, scratching and clawing for every point. All I ask and expect is their best and they give that to us every time. Lansdowne was rocking last night towards the end because for the second game in a row these lads refused to be beaten by technically superior opposition. And if they keep not getting beat, they might just get to play in the big show at home. Get behind it, it might just be class.

I see what you're saying and you're correct. But are we ever going to get better or are we just going to be continually mired in mediocrity?

There is a correlation to when there were Irish players on the best English club teams to none now and the steady decline of the Irish team. Are there any plans to improve? Look at Denmark with a population close enough to ours and they have better players.

Coillte_Bhoy

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Disgraceful attendance last night. People giving that shower money should remember that they are defacto endorsing their behaviour.

Given what we know, anyone attending last night really had lost the right to be critical of the way the FAI does it's business.

Bull****, it is possible to be critical of the FAI and still support the team, what do you think a boycott will achieve exactly? How would it play out?

MrMusician18

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Bull****, it is possible to be critical of the FAI and still support the team, what do you think a boycott will achieve exactly? How would it play out?

You think if they had no money coming in that that might not cause them to sit up and take notice?

As long as people are happy to stuff the FAIs coffers with ticket money, nothing will change. I mean, why would it.

The supporters of the senior team are complicit in killing the game here, all for a sing song, a few pints and to wave your shoes in the air. Well done.

Coillte_Bhoy

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You think if they had no money coming in that that might not cause them to sit up and take notice?

As long as people are happy to stuff the FAIs coffers with ticket money, nothing will change. I mean, why would it.

The supporters of the senior team are complicit in killing the game here, all for a sing song, a few pints and to wave your shoes in the air. Well done.

So again i'll ask, how would it all play out??

Father Hernandez

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Disgraceful attendance last night. People giving that shower money should remember that they are defacto endorsing their behaviour.

Given what we know, anyone attending last night really had lost the right to be critical of the way the FAI does it's business.

I'd like to think the crowd played its part in last night.

Lansdowne was rocking and even as the Swiss scored, there was a huge roar to get behind the side.

Certainly gave the lads confidence to go on and get the winner IMO.

For anyone avoiding games, it'd be a statement to avoid the Bulgaria game on Tuesday,

LuckyLloyd

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You think if they had no money coming in that that might not cause them to sit up and take notice?

As long as people are happy to stuff the FAIs coffers with ticket money, nothing will change. I mean, why would it.

The supporters of the senior team are complicit in killing the game here, all for a sing song, a few pints and to wave your shoes in the air. Well done.

Whatever man, I’m there to support the players representing my country. They’re inextricably linked to the association but I’m not supporting the excesses of the association. I’m not attending friendlies. I’m not buying merchandise. But I’ll absolutely make no apologies about turning up to shout on the players giving their all in competitive matches. They fully deserve the support.

LuckyLloyd

FatherTed wrote: »

I see what you're saying and you're correct. But are we ever going to get better or are we just going to be continually mired in mediocrity?

There is a correlation to when there were Irish players on the best English club teams to none now and the steady decline of the Irish team. Are there any plans to improve? Look at Denmark with a population close enough to ours and they have better players.

Development is bottom up, not top down. The Senior International team is not a development one. It will always take the sum of parts available and try and achieve the best results possible. Your issue is with the structure of youth football in this country; the lack of a national academy; lack of support for the domestic game. But also our issues are a consequence of the globalisation of the game. Irish players had opportunities in the 70’s and 80’s that aren’t there anymore due to the increased competition that much deeper scouting and pockets creates.

Ultimately the anger we see directed at the ever declining ability of the senior team is misdirected. They are the output, the inputs way back the chain are the issue. Remember that in 1990 David O’Leary of league champions Arsenal and Ronnie Whelan of all conquering Liverpool were the ‘why isn’t he playing’ guys. In recent years the guys people are screaming about are on teams scrapping it out fighting relegation or indeed in the Championship. Senior managers have no control over that and the players themselves are not to blame.

Zico !

ok it was a good result for us but an under par performance -the over the top celebrations at the end from our bench and fans was cringe imo

Nalz

Zico ! wrote: »

ok it was a good result for us but an under par performance -the over the top celebrations at the end from our bench and fans was cringe imo

I agree. I'm surprised how many don't

corny

Nalz wrote: »

I agree. I'm surprised how many don't

Me too. I'm also struck by how readily some accept the limitations of the players. Yes we don't have a Xavi but is it unreasonable to think professional players should be able to do more than pass the ball to the right/left back ad nauseam? Players playing at a much lower level can do better.

The players get so much praise for their bravery etc....chasing around and working hard isn't brave. We all could do that and i'd suggest thats the basic starting point for an international. True courage for me would be testing my limitations and trying to improve as a player/team. Its brave to demand the responsibility of getting the ball and bringing others into it but its also the only way to improve. We might surprise ourselves by how how good we can be.

Our players hide from responsibilty, do the basic job of working hard as they should and wait for the inevitable stick the manager gets for the gameplan. Thats the way its been for ages now. Tidy arrangement for them but far from heroic.

MrMusician18

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

So again i'll ask, how would it all play out??

Real change at the top, that's how it would all play out. I'd be happy to see the senior team play in front of an empty stadium if that what it takes. It will be more effective than a few tennis balls anyway.

You think those that hold the real power, the creditors, would stand idly by as their chances of repayment evaporate?

But as long as people are happy to keep giving these clowns money, nothing will change. Money talks.

But having the craic on the terrace is more important, isn't that right?

MrMusician18

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Bull****, it is possible to be critical of the FAI and still support the team, what do you think a boycott will achieve exactly? How would it play out?

Of course it's possible. It would just make you a hypocrite, that's all.

marbless

Just got round to reading match programme from Thursday night: once again, no "President's Welcome" or anything like that. Also, they used to list names of FAI Council and Board towards back of programme, but no sign of anything....


More interesting note - they had a feature on all Man Utd players capped for Ireland while at Old Trafford. Anyone care to guess (a) how many there've been? (b) who's Ireland's top scorer of those MU players?

niallo27

marbless wrote: »

Just got round to reading match programme from Thursday night: once again, no "President's Welcome" or anything like that. Also, they used to list names of FAI Council and Board towards back of programme, but no sign of anything....


More interesting note - they had a feature on all Man Utd players capped for Ireland while at Old Trafford. Anyone care to guess (a) how many there've been? (b) who's Ireland's top scorer of those MU players?

Denis Irwin would be up there, did Keane score many.

johnnyryan89

marbless wrote: »

Just got round to reading match programme from Thursday night: once again, no "President's Welcome" or anything like that. Also, they used to list names of FAI Council and Board towards back of programme, but no sign of anything....


More interesting note - they had a feature on all Man Utd players capped for Ireland while at Old Trafford. Anyone care to guess (a) how many there've been? (b) who's Ireland's top scorer of those MU players?

I'd say about 25, probably most before the premier League era and surely Frank Stapleton would be the highest scorer. Can't think of any other strikers off that might have played with United unless there's a lad from like 1910 that scored a bucket load.

Mr.Nice Guy

marbless wrote: »

More interesting note - they had a feature on all Man Utd players capped for Ireland while at Old Trafford. Anyone care to guess (a) how many there've been? (b) who's Ireland's top scorer of those MU players?

I'd guess around 50 to 60 players if we're talking all time.

Johnny Carey springs to mind as a potential candidate for top scorer. I've heard him described as one of United's first big star names and he was there a long time. Stapleton is a good shout too.

johnnyryan89

I initially thought Carey but didn't a good chunk of his time at United happen during WW2.

gwalk

Noel Cantwell?

marbless

Programme said 25 players, with a total of 480 caps and 57 goals. Frank Stapleton had 12 goals, followed by Cantwell and Keane (9 each).


The oldest year listed was 1937 - Tommy Breen - so looks like they're going from the start of FAI in 1920s.


One more puzzler: which Ireland player won most caps at United - total of 70?

Nunu

Hardly Frank Stapleton is it?

...He got about 20 goals for Ireland, is the 12 as a Utd player?

marbless

Nunu wrote: »

Hardly Frank Stapleton is it?

...He got about 20 goals for Ireland, is the 12 as a Utd player?

Exactly. They seem to give the totals of caps and goals just while playing for the club in question. In fact there's been a whole series in recent programmes called "For Club and Country". For me, being a Villa fan, I was pleasantly surprised to see Villa featured in the home match vs Gibraltar.



The 70 caps belong to John O'Shea.