Replay: All Ireland SFC Final Dublin v Kerry Saturday 14/09/2019 @ 6pm

Poor_old_gill

naughtb4 wrote: »

Clifford was good that first half with space. Anonymous second half. It's not his fault he's just being a bit over hyped (he's 20 and is brilliant).

O Shea out performed him in both finals for me and should be YPOTY (if it's not Howard)

Across the 2 games- Clifford was prob the best inside forward.

Con and mannion were anonymous on day 1

Martina1991

conor05 wrote:

Mayo never had and never will have 3 forwards all at once in the mound of Clifford, Geaney and Sean O Shea.

Cillian O Connor is the top all time scorer, with plenty of football left in him. Andy Moran was player of the year at the age of 34.

People can call them every name under the sun, but they're pretty good individual rewards for any forward.

threeball

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

Clifford didn't deserve it. He was muck in the final and replay and wasn't pulling up any trees in the earlier rounds this year. He's been quite poor for all the talk.
O Brien did deserve to be on it. He makes that Kerry team tick along with Seamus o Shea.

Clifford destroyed his direct markers in the first match and was well on top again today.
What games have you been watching?

He won literally every ball in the first match- I don’t think either of his markers beat him to a single ball nor was he dispossessed once!

I’ll take your Seamus o shea comment as evidence that you’re not sure of what you are taking about in your first comment

Clifford won ball in the first game and did nothing with it. Today he didn't even win ball.

Are you saying the Seamus O Shea isn't the heartbeat of that team? He's head and shoulders above Clifford.

threeball

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

naughtb4 wrote: »

Clifford was good that first half with space. Anonymous second half. It's not his fault he's just being a bit over hyped (he's 20 and is brilliant).

O Shea out performed him in both finals for me and should be YPOTY (if it's not Howard)

Across the 2 games- Clifford was prob the best inside forward.

Con and mannion were anonymous on day 1

I think you're blinkered or biased if you thought Clifford was the best forward on display at any stage over the two games. Bar out manoeuvring Cooper he was very poor in the first game. Today he was worse. His lash out at the ball that Fenton was picking towards the end was a sign of his frustration. They should have replaced him with Tommy Walsh 10mins in to the second half.

shockframe

Clifford was ok this season but had a much better season in 2018.

Sean O'Shea was much superior in 2019.

PTH2009

The Gibson hotel function room looks so tight Nothing like what you see In places like the Burlington/citywest etc

Why did Ciaran Kilkenny have his polo shirt on and not a suite ?

threeball

shockframe wrote: »

Clifford was ok this season but had a much better season in 2018.

Sean O'Shea was much superior in 2019.

So far Sean O Shea is the shining star of this new Kerry team. The guy has it all. I think he's their biggest star over the next 8yrs if he's injury free. Has to be YPOTY.

Fann Linn

Kerry weren't that great overall. Dublin were 5 points up with 15 mins to play with 14 men and all concerned said Dublin finished the strongest in the first match.

With 15 v 15 today Dublin won dropping down gears.
We got harder matches against Mayo in the past.

I felt todays game was never in doubt.

MfMan

threeball wrote: »

So far Sean O Shea is the shining star of this new Kerry team. The guy has it all. I think he's their biggest star over the next 8yrs if he's injury free. Has to be YPOTY.

No. Clifford streets ahead. A natural scorer, left or right. Wouldn't condemn him today or the last day, a player of his immense ability will take watching always. Not that O'Shea is bad either, but just doesn't have the movement I think that Clifford has.

Other reflections; Paul Geaney much better today, but had wides at a critical juncture when Kerry really needed scores. Really thought O'Brien was nearly as much of a nuisance to his own team as Dublin, made bad decisions on the ball. Jack Barry is ok, but hasn't a lot of pace. Kerry have a few very good players but a lot of average ones; 2 Spillanes, though young, probably not so great, Gavin White ordinary, O'Connor that started not at it yet, defenders but of a mixed bag. In all honesty, they're currently no bigger a threat to Dublin then Mayo were a couple of seasons back. This Dublin team could add on another 2/3 titles handy.

MfMan

Fann Linn wrote: »

Kerry weren't that great overall. Dublin were 5 points up with 15 mins to play with 14 men and all concerned said Dublin finished the strongest in the first match.

With 15 v 15 today Dublin won dropping down gears.
We got harder matches against Mayo in the past.

I felt todays game was never in doubt.

Once the goal went in, I thought the same. I was a bit surprised Dublin didn't go for the big kill immediately, a-la Mayo in the semi'. Kerry's tongues were out with a good 10 minutes to go, trying forlornly to keep up with their opponents.

TheRiverman

The Saturday Game programme tonight felt like a complete anti-climax.The analysis was quite boring,especially the standing up part.The picking of the Team Of The Year was painful,and lastly the coverage from the Gibson Hotel was rushed and Ciaran Kilkenny who deserved the Man Of The Match award was still in a tracksuit.
I know time constraints with the match not starting until 6pm didn't help,but it all felt so dull for such a historic occasion.

Kh1993

I thought Kerry’s tactics were a bit weird. They pumped in lots of long high balls early on, which we just about defended or broke down, yet stopped for long periods. Even when Walsh came on they only hit him with 2 high balls if I remember correctly. We defended well early but I feared for us if Moran especially kept getting the space to launch them, but then it dried up.

Was this purely a tactic to try and grab a goal or two early, and no loss if they didn’t?

Strumms

TheRiverman wrote: »

The Saturday Game programme tonight felt like a complete anti-climax.The analysis was quite boring,especially the standing up part.The picking of the Team Of The Year was painful,and lastly the coverage from the Gibson Hotel was rushed and Ciaran Kilkenny who deserved the Man Of The Match award was still in a tracksuit.
I know time constraints with the match not starting until 6pm didn't help,but it all felt so dull for such a historic occasion.

Forget the ‘occasion’. 70 minutes that brought 5 in a row...the rest is just supplementary window dressing.

PressRun

Martina1991 wrote: »

Cillian O Connor is the top all time scorer, with plenty of football left in him. Andy Moran was player of the year at the age of 34.

People can call them every name under the sun, but they're pretty good individual rewards for any forward.

People will make these claims. But Mayo more than held their own and on a couple of occasions scored more than this much vaunted Kerry forward line. Andy Moran said you need to score 20 points at least to beat Dublin, and I think that remains the benchmark.

Fann Linn

Kh1993 wrote: »

I thought Kerry’s tactics were a bit weird. They pumped in lots of long high balls early on, which we just about defended or broke down, yet stopped for long periods. Even when Walsh came on they only hit him with 2 high balls if I remember correctly. We defended well early but I feared for us if Moran especially kept getting the space to launch them, but then it dried up.

Was this purely a tactic to try and grab a goal or two early, and no loss if they didn’t?

Gavin pulling Murchin back and deploying Cooper elsewhere seemec to fcuk them up. Surprised myself, as every GAA analyist said this would happen all week.

TheCitizen

daveorourke77 wrote: »

I'd go the other way.

In legal circles possession is nine tenths of the law.

In sporting circles the same principle applies.

Frankly, it's up to the opposition to win the ball back. If they can't do it or won't do it then that's on them.

No it doesn't. I depends on what you do with it. In lots of sporting circles including soccer and especially a game like basketball, if you don't use it you lose it.

In Gaelic Football you're asking for trouble if a team is rewarded for tipping the ball around for long spells with loads of time remaining in the game to frustrate the opponent. What happens if the opponent goes a point ahead and does the same thing, you'll end up with chess matches with very little happening.

The other counties will copy what Dublin have perfected and basically kill the game unless the GAA adapt to it with some radical rule changes.

sallins13

why are you talking about Mayo, They were hammered twice and beaten well 3 times this year. Unreal that 2 of their defenders that lost by10 points made team of the year.

Strumms

I think the team of the year rather than being pound for pound player of the year by position is mostly just a bit of an ‘irish’ thing by giving recognition and a feel good factor to a diverse group of counties and players over a true deserving candidate. How the fûck James McCarthy didn’t make it haha laughable.

C__MC

Strumms wrote: »

I think the team of the year rather than being pound for pound player of the year by position is mostly just a bit of an ‘irish’ thing by giving recognition and a feel good factor to a diverse group of counties and players over a true deserving candidate. How the fûck James McCarthy didn’t make it haha laughable.

Or the man of the match

Strumms

C__MC wrote: »

Or the man of the match

Thought it was a toss up between him and Kilkenny so not going to argue there, Kilkenny was superb to be fair.

BonnieSituation

Strumms wrote: »

Thought it was a toss up between him and Kilkenny so not going to argue there, Kilkenny was superb to be fair.

Fitz for me with Murchan, Kilkenny or Cooper after.

Happyilylost

Kh1993 wrote:

I thought Kerry’s tactics were a bit weird. They pumped in lots of long high balls early on, which we just about defended or broke down, yet stopped for long periods. Even when Walsh came on they only hit him with 2 high balls if I remember correctly. We defended well early but I feared for us if Moran especially kept getting the space to launch them, but then it dried up.

Kh1993 wrote:

Was this purely a tactic to try and grab a goal or two early, and no loss if they didn’t?

I gave Keane massive credit for the things he tried in the first game. The kick out press by Kerry in the first game was both genius and crazy all rolled into one. Springing Tommy Walsh from the bench was obviously expected but still worked to a point in both games.

So again today Keane tried something he felt Dublin weren't going to expect with the long high ball into the full back line as much as possible early. Didn't work but Kerry management probably felt that it would take some sort of out of the box move to win it. Don't blame them for trying something against an exceptional team.

Kudos to Gavin too. Felt he had a poor enough first game but got most things right today. Cooper as the spare man worked well and Murchen was obviously an inspired decision. If it was by design I feel not taking McCaffery off till half time was brilliant. If Kerry had known he wasn't returning I think they would of altered the game plan a bit at half time instead they had to work it out on the fly.

Two good games to end the championship. Forwards today for both I thought were excellent. Dublins efficiency was unbelievable. No wide till around the 40 minute mark. Winning a final without scoring a free. Kilkenny was phenomenal today. Deserved MOTM.

Strumms

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Fitz for me with Murchan, Kilkenny or Cooper after.

Several candidates with not much to choose between them.

The Golden Miller

Experience won the day. People say this Dublin team are the best ever, but if Kerry continue their upward trajectory, they'll be even better. For all intents and purposes, Dublin are effectively well conditioned professional athlete's, have great "power". Kerry are now beginning to operate on their level, but doing it purely on terms of raw skill and talent. That will show through in the coming years.

Brian Fenton once again showing he's overrated. A poster on here once said he may be the greatest player to ever to set foot on a GAA pitch. That may be the case until Jack Barry get's a hold of him. Barry is a serious operator, a throwback to the past. Slim build, deceivingly labored looking, not the tallest, yet the complete midfielder. Pulling balls from the sky, tough as fcuk and an old head on young shoulders. He's the real deal.

Dublin have serious pace, and that's been the difference between them and the rest for the last few years. Slow build up and a turn of pace from their half backs to cut open defence's. Teams are slowly beginning to cotton onto it. If Meath had even one ounce of their old guile from the 80's and 90's, they would have had Dublin on the ropes, 5 chances from 24 converted. Pathetic, pity Meath are windbags these days, with no steel in them. Pull the Meath teams of old into today's era, with the benefits that come with modern sport, preparation and conditioning, they would of broke this Dublin team up.

Kerry hit crucial wide's at the tail end of the game today too, lack of experience. The aura surrounding Dublin is beginning to fall, teams putting themselves under huge pressure to score points thinking chances will be few and far between and missing. Kerry showed they are beatable. Cork and Meath showed it too with a bit more fitness, confidence and experience

Bonniedog

What a ridiculous posting:

"Kerry... will be even better."

Let's be honest here. The only team that came close to stopping Dublin in the five was Mayo.

ittakestwo

Tangent here. But why not always have all Ireland on a Saturday rather than a Sunday. Seems much better for the fans .

ThunbergsAreGo

ittakestwo wrote: »

Tangent here. But why not always have all Ireland on a Saturday rather than a Sunday. Seems much better for the fans .

Tradition, and maybe farmers

TheCitizen

naughtb4 wrote: »

And lead more teams towards playing defensive football???

Don’t know what you mean by that? A shot clock would encourage teams to get fowsrd quicker and score. It would lead to higher scoring

ThunbergsAreGo

TheCitizen wrote: »

naughtb4 wrote: »

And lead more teams towards playing defensive football???

Don’t know what you mean by that? A shot clock would encourage teams to get fowsrd quicker and score. It would lead to higher scoring

No it would encourage teams to funnel back straight away and pack the defence knowing the other team only have X time to score and need to play risky balls

ThunbergsAreGo

Also this was a really really good championship!! Some really enjoyable games and defensive football seems to be dying out

Happy4all

TheRiverman wrote: »

The Saturday Game programme tonight felt like a complete anti-climax.The analysis was quite boring,especially the standing up part.The picking of the Team Of The Year was painful,and lastly the coverage from the Gibson Hotel was rushed and Ciaran Kilkenny who deserved the Man Of The Match award was still in a tracksuit.
I know time constraints with the match not starting until 6pm didn't help,but it all felt so dull for such a historic occasion.

Personally enjoyed the chance to watch the highlights last night and thought the analysis was good and fair.

I then switched off before the team of the year bit, because never in to that or the likes of the all stars awards

Realt Dearg Sec

Bonniedog wrote: »

What a ridiculous posting:

"Kerry... will be even better."

Let's be honest here. The only team that came close to stopping Dublin in the five was Mayo.

You must have missed that match two weeks ago

RoscommonTom

never looked like kerry would win yesterday, it was like the first game until copper got sent off

Road-Hog

RoscommonTom wrote: »

never looked like kerry would win yesterday, it was like the first game until copper got sent off

Has joe umbrella ☔️ fallen out of favour with RTÉ in the last week.....as in his absence on panel yesterday......was the reason for Rockford.....did he tweet something controversial l..?

gifted

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Experience won the day. People say this Dublin team are the best ever, but if Kerry continue their upward trajectory, they'll be even better. For all intents and purposes, Dublin are effectively well conditioned professional athlete's, have great "power". Kerry are now beginning to operate on their level, but doing it purely on terms of raw skill and talent. That will show through in the coming years.

Brian Fenton once again showing he's overrated. A poster on here once said he may be the greatest player to ever to set foot on a GAA pitch. That may be the case until Jack Barry get's a hold of him. Barry is a serious operator, a throwback to the past. Slim build, deceivingly labored looking, not the tallest, yet the complete midfielder. Pulling balls from the sky, tough as fcuk and an old head on young shoulders. He's the real deal.

Dublin have serious pace, and that's been the difference between them and the rest for the last few years. Slow build up and a turn of pace from their half backs to cut open defence's. Teams are slowly beginning to cotton onto it. If Meath had even one ounce of their old guile from the 80's and 90's, they would have had Dublin on the ropes, 5 chances from 24 converted. Pathetic, pity Meath are windbags these days, with no steel in them. Pull the Meath teams of old into today's era, with the benefits that come with modern sport, preparation and conditioning, they would of broke this Dublin team up.

Kerry hit crucial wide's at the tail end of the game today too, lack of experience. The aura surrounding Dublin is beginning to fall, teams putting themselves under huge pressure to score points thinking chances will be few and far between and missing. Kerry showed they are beatable. Cork and Meath showed it too with a bit more fitness, confidence and experience

That's interesting because I was thinking the same yesterday during the match that the Meath team of the late 80's would have given this Dublin team a few beatings.

TheCitizen

naughtb4 wrote: »

No it would encourage teams to funnel back straight away and pack the defence knowing the other team only have X time to score and need to play risky balls

Nope. It would encourage the team with the ball to use it quicker and yes take more risks, then you’d get more turnovers and counter attacks. Have you ever watched a basketball game?

TheCitizen

RoscommonTom wrote: »

never looked like kerry would win yesterday, it was like the first game until copper got sent off

That’s another major flaw in Gaelic Football regulations. Cooper should not have been available yesterday after being sent off last week.

tritium

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Experience won the day. People say this Dublin team are the best ever, but if Kerry continue their upward trajectory, they'll be even better. For all intents and purposes, Dublin are effectively well conditioned professional athlete's, have great "power". Kerry are now beginning to operate on their level, but doing it purely on terms of raw skill and talent. That will show through in the coming years.

Brian Fenton once again showing he's overrated. A poster on here once said he may be the greatest player to ever to set foot on a GAA pitch. That may be the case until Jack Barry get's a hold of him. Barry is a serious operator, a throwback to the past. Slim build, deceivingly labored looking, not the tallest, yet the complete midfielder. Pulling balls from the sky, tough as fcuk and an old head on young shoulders. He's the real deal.

Dublin have serious pace, and that's been the difference between them and the rest for the last few years. Slow build up and a turn of pace from their half backs to cut open defence's. Teams are slowly beginning to cotton onto it. If Meath had even one ounce of their old guile from the 80's and 90's, they would have had Dublin on the ropes, 5 chances from 24 converted. Pathetic, pity Meath are windbags these days, with no steel in them. Pull the Meath teams of old into today's era, with the benefits that come with modern sport, preparation and conditioning, they would of broke this Dublin team up.

Kerry hit crucial wide's at the tail end of the game today too, lack of experience. The aura surrounding Dublin is beginning to fall, teams putting themselves under huge pressure to score points thinking chances will be few and far between and missing. Kerry showed they are beatable. Cork and Meath showed it too with a bit more fitness, confidence and experience

This is the same sort of crap people have been writing about dublin all decade. The idea that they’re just well conditioned athletes doesn’t hold up to any serious scrutiny, the skill they’ve displayed throughout their period of dominance is up there with the very best in the games history. They force teams to play the game on their terms and then choke the life out of them.

Fenton overrated? He was fantastic today yet people are writing him off on one poor game all season. There isn’t a team in the country that wouldn’t want him. Do you honestly think Barry had a better game today?

Teams slowly cottoning on to dublin and their pace: well they’ve won 5 in a row and 2 more in the few years before, so slowly is about right

Funny though how so many vaunted forwards over the years don’t quite hit the heights against dublin or have sloppy misses. You’d almost swear dublin force them into that...

TheCitizen

naughtb4 wrote: »

Also this was a really really good championship!! Some really enjoyable games and defensive football seems to be dying out

Did you watch the second half yesterday? Once Dublin got the goal and a 4 point cushion they killed the game, they put the hand up and just tipped it around the pitch. When others copy them there will be hardly any attacking football at all.

You’re obviously a Dublin fan. From a neutral perspective the game was dead early in the second half despite Kerry only being a few points behind with loads of time to go.

sk9

TheCitizen wrote: »

Did you watch the second half yesterday? Once Dublin got the goal and a 4 point cushion they killed the game, they put the hand up and just tipped it around the pitch. When others copy them there will be hardly any attacking football at all.

You’re obviously a Dublin fan. From a neutral perspective the game was dead early in the second half despite Kerry only being a few points behind with loads of time to go.

Kerry killed the game by scoring only 5 points in the second half, they looked tired.

Dublin could have had two goals in the second half, so they were hardly playing keep ball for the whole thing. Patience is rewarded.

ThunbergsAreGo

TheCitizen wrote: »

naughtb4 wrote: »

Also this was a really really good championship!! Some really enjoyable games and defensive football seems to be dying out

Did you watch the second half yesterday? Once Dublin got the goal and a 4 point cushion they killed the game, they put the hand up and just tipped it around the pitch. When others copy them there will be hardly any attacking football at all.

You’re obviously a Dublin fan. From a neutral perspective the game was dead early in the second half despite Kerry only being a few points behind with loads of time to go.

More to the championship then the final. This year has been alot more enjoyable then the last few. Scores seem to be high enough as well in most games. Cork Kerry was great, Kerry Donegal, Dublin Mayo, the drawn final, Kildare Longford etc

On the basketball comparison they are completely different games, with triple the amount of people on a football pitch. I can see your intention I just don't think it will work in practice.

doc_17

ittakestwo wrote: »

Tangent here. But why not always have all Ireland on a Saturday rather than a Sunday. Seems much better for the fans .

Completely disagree. It’s alright for Dublin to have throw in at 6 on a Saturday evening but what about the supporters from other counties that have to travel?

But I suppose of it suits Dublin then that’s what will happen.

ThunbergsAreGo

TheCitizen wrote: »

naughtb4 wrote: »

Also this was a really really good championship!! Some really enjoyable games and defensive football seems to be dying out

Did you watch the second half yesterday? Once Dublin got the goal and a 4 point cushion they killed the game, they put the hand up and just tipped it around the pitch. When others copy them there will be hardly any attacking football at all.

You’re obviously a Dublin fan. From a neutral perspective the game was dead early in the second half despite Kerry only being a few points behind with loads of time to go.

There is a simpler solution, and that's for the defending team to not sit back and let them. Compare Dublin's keep ball to Kerry's two week prior (with a man extra). One team pressed aggressively, the other were passive.

ThunbergsAreGo

doc_17 wrote: »

ittakestwo wrote: »

Tangent here. But why not always have all Ireland on a Saturday rather than a Sunday. Seems much better for the fans .

Completely disagree. It’s alright for Dublin to have throw in at 6 on a Saturday evening but what about the supporters from other counties that have to travel?

But I suppose of it suits Dublin then that’s what will happen.

He probably doesnt bean at 6, but a 3.30 Saturday throw in

siblers

Bonniedog wrote: »

What a ridiculous posting:

"Kerry... will be even better."

Let's be honest here. The only team that came close to stopping Dublin in the five was Mayo.

Apart from Kerry who were just as close

Poor_old_gill

naughtb4 wrote: »

He probably doesnt bean at 6, but a 3.30 Saturday throw in

I think that the retailers of Dublin would make a complaint as it would impact on their biggest day of trade.

salmocab

doc_17 wrote: »

Completely disagree. It’s alright for Dublin to have throw in at 6 on a Saturday evening but what about the supporters from other counties that have to travel?

But I suppose of it suits Dublin then that’s what will happen.

Ah ffs replays are on Saturdays the stadium is already booked for the Sunday it must take serious mental agility to manage to think its for Dublin’s benefit.

ThunbergsAreGo

salmocab wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

Completely disagree. It’s alright for Dublin to have throw in at 6 on a Saturday evening but what about the supporters from other counties that have to travel?

But I suppose of it suits Dublin then that’s what will happen.

Ah ffs replays are on Saturdays the stadium is already booked for the Sunday it must take serious mental agility to manage to think its for Dublin’s benefit.

It wasn't but seeing the Kerry fans getting in the bus at 9, that's not pleasent journey.

And the last train left at 7

galwaylad14

This is awfully radical but does football need a shot clock? From being at the game it just seems like it’s too easy to retain possession and do nothing with it. Once Dublin got in front they had no urgency to their play at all and just held possession until they worked a simple shot. Was very frustrating to watch at times I thought.

TheCitizen

naughtb4 wrote: »

More to the championship then the final. This year has been alot more enjoyable then the last few. Scores seem to be high enough as well in most games. Cork Kerry was great, Kerry Donegal, Dublin Mayo, the drawn final, Kildare Longford etc

On the basketball comparison they are completely different games, with triple the amount of people on a football pitch. I can see your intention I just don't think it will work in practice.

Yes they are different games. However Soccer and Gaelic Football are also different games but what you have now is Dublin playing a brand of possession football like what Barcelona did in soccer.

The problem is in Gaelic Football you can keep it longer using hand passes and fielding. You’ve got Cluxton with pin point kick outs and so the element of 50/50 ball with matched up players around the pitch is minimised.

Dublin have perfected it to their own benefit which is great for them but for neutrals they’re choking the life out of the game. If there’s no compulsion on them to attack they can tip it around the pitch wearing out the opposition and killing the game, which would be normal with a few minutes left but if it’s happening with 20 minutes left then you’ve got a serious problem with Gaelic Football as a spectacle.