Replay: All Ireland SFC Final Dublin v Kerry Saturday 14/09/2019 @ 6pm

TheCitizen

galwaylad14 wrote: »

This is awfully radical but does football need a shot clock? From being at the game it just seems like it’s too easy to retain possession and do nothing with it. Once Dublin got in front they had no urgency to their play at all and just held possession until they worked a simple shot. Was very frustrating to watch at times I thought.

That’s what I said a couple of pages back. Yes it is radical, and we know the GAA are notoriously resistant to change, but yes a shot clock is necessary In Gaelic Football now. Otherwise as a spectator sport it’s dead.

aodomhnaill

doc_17 wrote: »

Completely disagree. It’s alright for Dublin to have throw in at 6 on a Saturday evening but what about the supporters from other counties that have to travel?

But I suppose of it suits Dublin then that’s what will happen.

The 6 o clock throw in was to accommodate the horse racing schedule, of which Listowel Races was a major part of that schedule yesterday. Last I heard Listowel was in Kerry.

Dyr

TheCitizen wrote: »

That’s what I said a couple of pages back. Yes it is radical, and we know the GAA are notoriously resistant to change, but yes a shot clock is necessary In Gaelic Football now. Otherwise as a spectator sport it’s dead.

Do you want to direct us to your previous posts ranting about the blanket defence killing the game as a spectator sport?

TheCitizen

naughtb4 wrote: »

There is a simpler solution, and that's for the defending team to not sit back and let them. Compare Dublin's keep ball to Kerry's two week prior (with a man extra). One team pressed aggressively, the other were passive.

The difference is Dublin have perfected keep ball. The others will copy them and then you’ve got a problem.

TheCitizen

Bambi wrote: »

Do you want to direct us to your previous posts ranting about the blanket defence killing the game as a spectator sport?

Don’t know what you’re referring to pal.

Dyr

TheCitizen wrote: »

Don’t know what you’re referring to pal.

Don't worry, everyone else did.

TheCitizen

Bambi wrote: »

Don't worry, everyone else did.

How very cryptic

aodomhnaill

galwaylad14 wrote: »

This is awfully radical but does football need a shot clock? From being at the game it just seems like it’s too easy to retain possession and do nothing with it. Once Dublin got in front they had no urgency to their play at all and just held possession until they worked a simple shot. Was very frustrating to watch at times I thought.

They held possession because Kerry had 15 men behind the ball. What are you supposed to do in this situation, gift the ball to the opposition or take a shot from the half way line? Then when the shot clock runs down and you lose possession you do the exact same thing to the opposing side. A shot clock works on a small field of play as you will no matter where you are in the other teams half always have an option to go for a score, this is most definitely not the case with a huge GAA pitch. It’s not radical, it’s a very silly suggestion.

Whatever Keane said or did at halftime was disastrous. Have never seen a Kerry side resort to such tactics.

Panrich

galwaylad14 wrote: »

This is awfully radical but does football need a shot clock? From being at the game it just seems like it’s too easy to retain possession and do nothing with it. Once Dublin got in front they had no urgency to their play at all and just held possession until they worked a simple shot. Was very frustrating to watch at times I thought.

That sounds like a good idea to consider but I’d be afraid it might lead to more aggressive blanket defense to ensure the team on the clock gets little chance to get a good percentage shot off and leading to both sides cancelling each other out.

TheCitizen

aodomhnaill wrote: »

They held possession because Kerry had 15 men behind the ball. What are you supposed to do in this situation, gift the ball to the opposition or take a shot from the half way line? Then when the shot clock runs down and you lose possession you do the exact same thing to the opposing side. A shot clock works on a small field of play as you will no matter where you are in the other teams half always have an option to go for a score, this is most definitely not the case with a huge GAA pitch. It’s not radical, it’s a very silly suggestion.

Whatever Keane said or did at halftime was disastrous. Have never seen a Kerry side resort to such tactics.

They were tippy tappying around in their own half because they were a few points ahead. The truth is Kerry didn’t have the energy levels to press them, but if/when the other teams catch up with Dublin’s fitness levels they’ll copy the possession game and it will lead to lower scoring games. A shot clock would lead to higher scoring and more end to end play in my view. I think they should trial it in the league and see if it works.

Dyr

TheCitizen wrote: »

How very cryptic

It's not cryptic at all, you imagine someone like yourself who's purse clutching about the game as spectacle would have a long history of posts decrying the blanket defence. Y'know, that negative tactic which facilitates Dublin playing keep ball, as demonstrated by Kerry yesterday with a 14 man defence for extended periods

Do you have a long history of such posts? Or just a long history of sour grapes?

TheCitizen

Panrich wrote: »

That sounds like a good idea to consider but I’d be afraid it might lead to more aggressive blanket defense to ensure the team on the clock gets little chance to get a good percentage shot off and leading to both sides cancelling each other out.

On the other hand It could lead to more urgency and more end to end play. The alternative is to do nothing about it. I reckon it’s worth trying it out.

C__MC

Once see Kerry throwing in o donoghue, you knew that was it. Very much overrated and still living off 2014. I actually thought Peter Keane had a shocker yesterday.
Kerry fizzled out of it in the second half, conceding the kickouts was a shocker.

TheCitizen

Bambi wrote: »

It's not cryptic at all, you imagine someone like yourself who's purse clutching about the game as spectacle would have a long history of posts decrying the blanket defence. Y'know, that negative tactic which facilitates Dublin playing keep ball, as demonstrated by Kerry yesterday with a 14 man defence for extended periods

Do you have a long history of such posts? Or just a long history of sour grapes?

Blanket defense and keep ball together isn’t going to lead to attacking football and higher scoring is it?

I’m a neutral, I’m not a Kerry fan. I’m talking about the game I watched yesterday from a neutral perspective. I’m involved in soccer and probably watch a lot more soccer, rugby, basketball than Gaelic Football. It’s a neutral perspective, nothing to do with sour grapes.

That game yesterday looked dead with 20 to 25 minutes left even though there was only a few points between the teams, that’s not good for Gaelic Football as a spectator sport but if all that matters to you is that your team won then you’re not getting the point of the discussion.

sk9

TheCitizen wrote: »

That’s what I said a couple of pages back. Yes it is radical, and we know the GAA are notoriously resistant to change, but yes a shot clock is necessary In Gaelic Football now. Otherwise as a spectator sport it’s dead.

Absolute nonsense that will just lead to more blanket defence, whole teams camped behind the 45 yard line. Hardly dead as a spectator sport, over 1M people watched drawn final and probably similar figures for yesterday

sk9

TheCitizen wrote: »

I’m involved in soccer and probably watch a lot more soccer, rugby, basketball than Gaelic Football.

And by god does it show. Shot clock works in BB because the pitch is tiny and has 5 men. Dubs are hardly going to hand the ball to Kerry when they have everyone bar Tommy Walsh behind the ball. Your ‘solution’ would do the game far more harm than good

TheCitizen

sk9 wrote: »

Absolute nonsense that will just lead to more blanket defence, whole teams camped behind the 45 yard line. Hardly dead as a spectator sport, over 1M people watched drawn final and probably similar figures for yesterday

If they do nothing it’s dead. The game is evolving as all games do, the GAA are usually to slow to keep up with the game evolving.

LuasSimon

Will Dublin do ten in a row ?
Is there 2 or 3 credible opponents , Kerry , Tyrone , Donegal maybe ??
How could a Louth or Wexford footballer motivate himself for a Leinster championship match against Dublin , spend 6 months preparing with no life . For spectators there’s a whole heap of unentertaining cagey borefests to endure .
Bar the drawn all Ireland final and first half yesterday was there 3 other decent matchs in the whole championship ??

TheCitizen

sk9 wrote: »

And by god does it show. Shot clock works in BB because the pitch is tiny and has 5 men. Dubs are hardly going to hand the ball to Kerry when they have everyone bar Tommy Walsh behind the ball. Your ‘solution’ would do the game far more harm than good

Nah I disagree. I think it would be worth trying out. The alternative is to do nothing and that never works.

LuasSimon

sk9 wrote: »

Absolute nonsense that will just lead to more blanket defence, whole teams camped behind the 45 yard line. Hardly dead as a spectator sport, over 1M people watched drawn final and probably similar figures for yesterday

Think many people would watch a final and throw in it been Dublin and Kerry and Dublin ( in a row bid but how many will watch a quarter final or semi final going forward when there’s more than likely only one winner and the game is gone so unexciting .the tv figures outside of the final have dropped hugely in the past couple of years .
Was there only 30k at Dublin’s quarter final this year even ?

Seadin

Same as the 1990s with Kerry winning 1 All Ireland in this decade and one they got lucky to win in 2014 i felt. They never looked like winning yesterday realistically. They left it after them the first day. Kerry have a great team but like I said earlier nothing is guaranteed that success will come even with a talented team. Just ask the Galway hurling underage teams, Limerick u21s in the early 2000s and Mayo team 2012-2017. Things change every year.

fergus1001

new rule should be brought in along the lines of not making reasonable progress in a attacking phase,

say it were time limited to 30-40 seconds then after that a free is given to the opposing team

it could stop this thing of holding the ball in midfield indefinitely and force teams to attack

Seadin

fergus1001 wrote: »

new rule should be brought in along the lines of not making reasonable progress in a attacking phase,

say it were time limited to 30-40 seconds then after that a free is given to the opposing team

it could stop this thing of holding the ball in midfield indefinitely and force teams to attack

Nothing wrong with holding the ball. Its up to the opposition to get the ball back.

TheCitizen

fergus1001 wrote: »

new rule should be brought in along the lines of not making reasonable progress in a attacking phase,

say it were time limited to 30-40 seconds then after that a free is given to the opposing team

it could stop this thing of holding the ball in midfield indefinitely and force teams to attack

Yep. They need to do something about it. A shot clock was my suggestion but they need some kind of mechanism to force/encourage a team to continue to attack even when they’re ahead to make it more possible and frequent for turnovers of possession.

TheCitizen

Seadin wrote: »

Nothing wrong with holding the ball. Its up to the opposition to get the ball back.

Holding the ball with a couple of minutes left is natural. Holding the ball with 25 minutes left kills the game for spectators, for TV companies. Contrast with hurling which is a brilliant end to end game. Gaelic Football just mimicking soccer isn’t the way to go if they care about the game being attractive for viewers and supporters.

dunnerc

If Kerry had of held the ball for as long as they wanted and won the game you would not have given a monkeys . COYBIB

fergus1001

Seadin wrote:

Nothing wrong with holding the ball. Its up to the opposition to get the ball back.

and then when everyone loses interest in the game and nobody cares anymore would you look at reforming football then ?

fergus1001

dunnerc wrote:

If Kerry had of held the ball for as long as they wanted and won the game you would not have given a monkeys . COYBIB

both teams were as guilty as each other on this and ruined the game for us neutrals

equivariant

LuasSimon wrote: »

Will Dublin do ten in a row ?
Is there 2 or 3 credible opponents , Kerry , Tyrone , Donegal maybe ?? ......
Bar the drawn all Ireland final and first half yesterday was there 3 other decent matchs in the whole championship ??

Kerry v donegal, mayo v donegal, Kerry v cork, Kerry v meath, 1st half of Dublin-mayo (since we are counting halves) and I'm sure there were some good matches in Ulster that I didn't see.

Regarding contenders Galway and Mayo both have potential to beat Dublin if things go well. At least as much as Tyrone do anyway imo.

When has there ever been more than 3/4 real contenders for the AI anyway.

The real issue is the moribund state of Leinster. Dublin have been run close on several occasions outside Leinster by mayo and kerry. But the fact that they dont even have to try until the super 8 is a big advantage.

fergus1001

equivariant wrote:

The real issue is the moribund state of Leinster. Dublin have been run close on several occasions outside Leinster by mayo and kerry. But the fact that they dont even have to try until the super 8 is a big advantage.

if they took some of that development money from dublin and spread it around leinster you would even things up

dunnerc

equivariant wrote: »

Kerry v donegal, mayo v donegal, Kerry v cork, Kerry v meath, 1st half of Dublin-mayo (since we are counting halves) and I'm sure there were some good matches in Ulster that I didn't see.

Regarding contenders Galway and Mayo both have potential to beat Dublin if things go well. At least as much as Tyrone do anyway imo.

When has there ever been more than 3/4 real contenders for the AI anyway.

The real issue is the moribund state of Leinster. Dublin have been run close on several occasions outside Leinster by mayo and kerry. But the fact that they dont even have to try until the super 8 is a big advantage.

So there is no issue with Munster ? . Kerry 81 Munster titles :rolleyes:

spurshero

equivariant wrote: »

Kerry v donegal, mayo v donegal, Kerry v cork, Kerry v meath, 1st half of Dublin-mayo (since we are counting halves) and I'm sure there were some good matches in Ulster that I didn't see.

Regarding contenders Galway and Mayo both have potential to beat Dublin if things go well. At least as much as Tyrone do anyway imo.

When has there ever been more than 3/4 real contenders for the AI anyway.

The real issue is the moribund state of Leinster. Dublin have been run close on several occasions outside Leinster by mayo and kerry. But the fact that they dont even have to try until the super 8 is a big advantage.

As a Galway man I’m hearing about this potential for a long time . There’s lads playing inter county for last 7 years that have potiential ! Eoin murchan has 12 championship matches played for Dublin and has 2 all Ireland’s !

fred funk }{

Ha...now they want penalise Dublin because other teams can't get the football off them. Really, lads?

TrueGael

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Ha...now they want penalise Dublin because other teams can't get the football off them. Really, lads?

If you think basketball without a shot clock is good to watch you must like watching paint dry

TheCitizen

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Ha...now they want penalise Dublin because other teams can't get the football off them. Really, lads?

This isn’t about Dublin it’s a general observation of the way Gaelic Football is going. If other teams copy Dublin’s possession game which is likely then you’re fúcked entirely.

JRant

If holding on to the ball is so easy then why don't other teams do it more.

I'll tell you why, it's incredibly difficult to do it and is easier to have lads fall back into a blanket defense. It takes a lot of movement and skill to hold on to it for 3 minutes in a game.

It also needs to be said that the onus is on the defending team to win it back not be gifted it by a stupid shot clock or other such drivel.

You want the ball, earn it. Push up, tackle hard, take chances, track runners etc. It's not rocket science.

Dyr

TheCitizen wrote: »

This isn’t about Dublin it’s a general observation of the way Gaelic Football is going. If other teams copy Dublin’s possession game which is likely then you’re fúcked entirely.

Keeping possession only works when the other team stands off and packs their defence.

It's embarrassing reading this stuff, stick to the soccerball and then come back next September with more observations

fergus1001

fergus1001 wrote: »

and then when everyone loses interest in the game and nobody cares anymore would you look at reforming football then ?

Kerry had every player behind the 45 metre line for most of the game. It was like watching Donegal from 2014, hitting Dublin on the break.
There was only one team to blame for it being boring for the neutral. Didn't Spillane call that puke football ?

ThunbergsAreGo

JRant wrote: »

If holding on to the ball is so easy then why don't other teams do it more.

I'll tell you why, it's incredibly difficult to do it and is easier to have lads fall back into a blanket defense. It takes a lot of movement and skill to hold on to it for 3 minutes in a game.

It also needs to be said that the onus is on the defending team to win it back not be gifted it by a stupid shot clock or other such drivel.

You want the ball, earn it. Push up, tackle hard, take chances, track runners etc. It's not rocket science.

Exactly, watch Kerry try to do it at the end of the drawn game

tritium

TrueGael wrote: »

If you think basketball without a shot clock is good to watch you must like watching paint dry

Funny I could have sworn Kerry tried the same tactics in the first game, turned over the ball and got slated for being naive.

Nothing wrong with not giving possession away cheaply if the opposition have their defensive shape set up. As dublin showed first day, if teams are willing to try to win the ball back instead of standing off then possession football isn’t easy

Strumms

fergus1001 wrote: »

and then when everyone loses interest in the game and nobody cares anymore would you look at reforming football then ?

Dublin scored every 3.7 minutes...overall in the game one or other team was scoring every 2.4 minutes.

So I don’t think ‘holding the ball’ is an issue in the game a shot clock is a ridiculous attempt at clutching at straws, to lessen a natural skill advantage of a sublime team. The whining anti Dublin brigade will of course advocate it, will advocate Dublin playing with 14 men, one hand tied behind their backs and not having eaten for 3 days. Pure comedy, meanwhile back in the real world...five in a row, earned and delivered, now for six....

gormdubhgorm

I honestly think Kerry are not just next years team but the team for the next five years.
The 2011 Dublin crop Cluxton, Fitzsimons, O'Sullivan, Brogan, McMahon. MacCauley, McManamon, O'Carroll, O'Gara, Connolly they will all be gone either next year or soon after.
That is a lot of experience to lose from a panel.
The Dublin panel will definitely not be as strong in the coming years.
If this current Kerry team stays together the sky is the limit for them and I would not be surprised if they won a three in a row AI's or more.

TheCitizen

Bambi wrote: »

Keeping possession only works when the other team stands off and packs their defence.

It's embarrassing reading this stuff, stick to the soccerball and then come back next September with more observations

A type of shot clock modified for Gaelic Football is what you need, don’t be burying your head in the sand. You’re like the proverbial frog sitting in a saucepan of slowly boiling water. See you next September for Groundhog Day if they don’t make an effort to change things. It’s no surprise that you’re embarrassed.

fred funk }{

TheCitizen wrote: »

This isn’t about Dublin it’s a general observation of the way Gaelic Football is going. If other teams copy Dublin’s possession game which is likely then you’re fúcked entirely.

But you see, it is really. Dublin play an exciting fast game and have the ability to keep possession when needed. It's another attempt to have a go.

Strumms

Yes the ability to cherish and mind possession is by virtue of great skill, intelligence, savvy game management coupled with dynamic attacking player, truck loads of ability, hard work and dedication, sublime.

TheCitizen

fred funk }{ wrote: »

But you see, it is really. Dublin play an exciting fast game and have the ability to keep possession when needed. It's another attempt to have a go.

It really isn't. Makes no difference to me if it was a team in blue or a team in green and gold that won yesterday

TheCitizen

JRant wrote: »

If holding on to the ball is so easy then why don't other teams do it more.

I'll tell you why, it's incredibly difficult to do it and is easier to have lads fall back into a blanket defense. It takes a lot of movement and skill to hold on to it for 3 minutes in a game.

It also needs to be said that the onus is on the defending team to win it back not be gifted it by a stupid shot clock or other such drivel.

You want the ball, earn it. Push up, tackle hard, take chances, track runners etc. It's not rocket science.

Yet another who misses the point entirely. Whoosh.

Strumms

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yet another who misses the point entirely. Whoosh.

You don’t have a point, you are whining, pure and simple, without intelligence, intellect or understanding...

TheCitizen

Strumms wrote: »

You don’t have a point, you are whining, pure and simple, without intelligence, intellect or understanding...

Nope I do have point and it's not an anti Dublin thing at all, that's just you trying to make out that it is. No need to be so touchy a chara, just giving an observation from a neutral perspective.

gormdubhgorm

fred funk }{ wrote: »

But you see, it is really. Dublin play an exciting fast game and have the ability to keep possession when needed. It's another attempt to have a go.

Yeah that is a part people seem to be missing Dublin can mix and match thier styles. Bring subtlety in where needed.
I find those who negatively critique any period of possession in a game are those who favour the crash, bang wallop style of football. Catch and kick only. If Dublin played like that yesterday they would have played into Kerry's hands. The game has evolved to another level, movement angles probing
Quick change of speed from slow to fast back to slow etc.
Yet we do still see some great kick passes like Connolly's, as well as the skills to keep the ball - take the sting out of a game - make sure the ball gets to the main Dublin scorers. How many wides did Dublin hit yesterday?

Some traditionalists do not seem willing to accept that the game has evolved and improved - like Mick O'Connell who refuses to call it Gaelic football. He says he just calls it 'Gaelic' now.

Also people seem to forget that the keep ball evolved to counteract Jim McGuinness Donegal tactic. So the ball would not be brought into the tackle and shot is only take when the player is in the D or around it.