Would you buy beside social housing?

Bannasidhe

Bobblehats wrote: »

All very well but happens when social housing buys beside you.

And dear departed missus mulhall becomes ms yehdksbfjsk..

17 years ago I bought a new build in a row of 7 terraced houses.
3 were owner occupied. 4 were private rental.

Now 4 are owner occupied - one of the private rentals was bought by the Polish tenants, and 3 are owned by the local authority.

The occupants of one house are Polish and cause zero trouble. The other tenant is Irish and while not a nightmare does have her drunken boyfriend (he doesn't live there) screaming outside at 3 am whenever they have a fight, and also manages to take up 3 parking spaces in the communal carpark due to her pull in and leave it technique, this means there is often not enough spaces.

The third house - next door to me - has been unoccupied for over 2 years.

I'd be delighted if the council put someone in that house rather than watch it begin to disintegrate. The garden is a rat attracting jungle. One of the upstairs windows doesn't close properly so the rain is getting in. The shared gutter is so full of debris it is on the verge of coming down.

I don't give a flying where the tenants were born.

Fils

How can we expect people who get free houses to be model tenants. People need to wake up here, stop living in la la land.

the beer revolu

Fils wrote: »

How can we expect people who get free houses to be model tenants. People need to wake up here, stop living in la la land.

That is incredibly insulting to the hundreds of thousands of decent people who live in social housing.

Being completely honest, I'd abhor living next door to someone with an attitude like yours.

Also, they aren't free.

Fils

Yes they are free, I personally know several people who got free houses. Paying €25 a week rent, some in arrears.
They are claiming and using the system to the last. Take your faux outrage elsewhere it don’t wash with me.

Samuel T. Cogley

JuanBerrosa wrote: »

Great, and good on you, unfortunately you are in a minority, most people wouldn't want to buy next to social housing with the anti social problems it would bring.

This seem obvious to me but people seem to get very defensive when talking about social housing. The fact is the vast, vast majority of social tenants range from the great to the meh. It's a tiny minority that cause most of the issues. That said anyone who thinks that you're not more likely to get one of those said minority in social housing vs a private buyer is just not being realistic.

Samuel T. Cogley

Fils wrote: »

Yes they are free, I personally know several people who got free houses. Paying €25 a week rent, some in arrears.
They are claiming and using the system to the last. Take your faux outrage elsewhere it don’t wash with me.

Always the chicken and the egg with this one. They have to pay rent, but that comes out of the benefits they get so it's not even free, we're paying people to be layabouts! :pac:

That said plenty of working people in social housing but they're still paying nominal rents IMHO.

corner of hells

Fils wrote: »

Yes they are free, I personally know several people who got free houses. Paying €25 a week rent, some in arrears.
They are claiming and using the system to the last. Take your faux outrage elsewhere it don’t wash with me.

How do I get one of these 25euro a week houses ?

the beer revolu

Fils wrote: »

Yes they are free, I personally know several people who got free houses. Paying €25 a week rent, some in arrears.
They are claiming and using the system to the last. Take your faux outrage elsewhere it don’t wash with me.

There is nothing faux about my outrage.
I don't expect you to be able to understand (wash with you).

I am genuinely disgusted the our society produces so many people with attitudes like yours. Makes me think that there is something seriously wrong with our education system that so many people are such bigots and lack any sense of empathy or sense of community. And everything is completely polarised and complexity of issues is ignored.

We seem to be creating generations of shallow thinking, selfish cnuts who should know better given the opportunities and education they have received.

Really nothing faux about my feelings on this. I despise people who punch down.

Samuel T. Cogley

the beer revolu wrote: »

There is nothing faux about my outrage.
I don't expect you to be able to understand (wash with you).

I am genuinely disgusted the our society produces so many people with attitudes like yours. Makes me think that there is something seriously wrong with our education system that so many people are such bigots and lack any sense of empathy or sense of community. And everything is completely polarised and complexity of issues is ignored.

We seem to be creating generations of shallow thinking, selfish cnuts who should know better given the opportunities and education they have received.

Really nothing faux about my feelings on this. I despise people who punch down.

There is a counter problem that many of us who 'get up early in the morning' are fed up of subsidising other members of society. Where someone has a genuine disability then of course there is an exception but having a a bunch of kids without the means to support them, or worse, just not being arsed to work pisses a lot of people off. Especially when those people seem to need to live in the centre of Dublin.

I'm all for cost neutral rents by the way, no issue there at all. These should be available to lower income people with the caveat that they work.

corner of hells

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

There is a counter problem that many of us who 'get up early in the morning' are fed up of subsidising other members of society. Where someone has a genuine disability then of course there is an exception but having a a bunch of kids without the means to support them, or worse, just not being arsed to work pisses a lot of people off. Especially when those people seem to need to live in the centre of Dublin.

I'm all for cost neutral rents by the way, no issue there at all. These should be available to lower income people with the caveat that they work.

Absolutely, however there is an element in society that will never work or are incapable of maintaining employment consistently and unfortunately it can be generational.

Fils

Fils wrote: »

Yes they are free, I personally know several people who got free houses. Paying €25 a week rent.

Lol.

Samuel T. Cogley

corner of hells wrote: »

Absolutely, however there is an element in society that will never work or are incapable of maintaining employment consistently and unfortunately it can be generational.

This is where highly supervised labour should come it. Picking up litter for example. Yes you might need a supervisor for every two people but the option to simply sit at home watching the TV should not exist.

Again a genuine disability, which could be given a broad definition would be an exception but addiction would not be an excuse.

the beer revolu

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

There is a counter problem that many of us who 'get up early in the morning' are fed up of subsidising other members of society. Where someone has a genuine disability then of course there is an exception but having a a bunch of kids without the means to support them, or worse, just not being arsed to work pisses a lot of people off. Especially when those people seem to need to live in the centre of Dublin.

I'm all for cost neutral rents by the way, no issue there at all. These should be available to lower income people with the caveat that they work.

Honestly, I'm not defending the system.
Of course there are flaws. Show me a social system that works perfectly.
However, there is far too much emphasis on what is a minority of people on welfare who abuse the system.

What I am doing is raging against staggeringly stupid, bigoted and unhelpful attitudes like this:

"How can we expect people who get free houses to be model tenants. People need to wake up here, stop living in la la land."

This helps no-one.

corner of hells

bubblypop wrote: »

Lol.

Dunno what you're loling at , im gonna be first in the queue for one.

Samuel T. Cogley

the beer revolu wrote: »

Honestly, I'm not defending the system.
Of course there are flaws. Show me a social system that works perfectly.
However, there is far too much emphasis on what is a minority of people on welfare who abuse the system.

What I am doing is raging against staggeringly stupid, bigoted and unhelpful attitudes like this:

"How can we expect people who get free houses to be model tenants. People need to wake up here, stop living in la la land."

This helps no-one.

There is an element of this though. A sense of entitlement that starts with "My kids shouldn't be in a tenement" and progresses to "Why shouldn't I have a party on a Tuesday Morning at 2am". And to be clear I don't think kids should be living in tenements.

I concede I cannot show you a perfect system, but the there is something fundamentally wrong with the 'no consequences for your actions' system we employ in this country.

Fils

corner of hells wrote: »

How do I get one of these 25euro a week houses ?

Start producing children.

Fils

bubblypop wrote: »

Lol.

Hand the phone back to your mammy.

Fils

Fils wrote: »

Hand the phone back to your mammy.

Just got myself a free pizza, cost me 12 euro......

Fils

That’s half a months ‘rent’.

PalLimerick

Fils wrote: »

Start producing children.

You're misinformed, nobody pays as little as €25 a week.

PalLimerick

Fils wrote: »

Yes they are free, I personally know several people who got free houses. Paying €25 a week rent, some in arrears.
They are claiming and using the system to the last. Take your faux outrage elsewhere it don’t wash with me.

Incorrect.

Fils

PalLimerick wrote: »

You're misinformed, nobody pays as little as €25 a week.

Yes your correct some don’t pay it at all. They are in years of arrears.

Fils

Fils wrote: »

Yes your correct some don’t pay it at all. They are in years of arrears.

So are plenty living in their 'own' homes, no mortgage payments for years!

corner of hells

Fils wrote: »

That’s half a months ‘rent’.

Half a month ?

Marhay70

bubblypop wrote: »

So are plenty living in their 'own' homes, no mortgage payments for years!

Not apples and apples, this situation will resolve itself once we return to more normal times.
Unfortunately, the is a section of society who think they are entitled to everything but don't want to pay for any of it and these have been facilitated by inept and self serving politicians, aided and abetted by a totally incompetent Civil Service and a blinkered Judiciary, none of whom are ever likely to have to put up with the type of arsehole this thread is about, living next door to them.
There is no doubt that there are those within the "moneyed" classes who are less than model citizens but they tend to commit what is laughingly known as "victimless crime" and not draw attention to themselves by annoying their neighbours.

Marhay70

Marhay70 wrote: »

none of whom are ever likely to have to put up with the type of arsehole this thread is about, living next door to them.
.

Thread is about social housing.
Arseholes?

Marhay70

bubblypop wrote: »

Thread is about social housing.
Arseholes?

You're right, it's unfair to compare a perfectly useful and functional part of anatomy to the people I'm describing.

Less of the righteous indignation, it has been made clear in this thread just what section of those in social housing is being described.

the beer revolu

Marhay70 wrote: »

Y


it has been made clear in this thread just what section of those in social housing is being described.

We must be reading different threads!

fussyonion

I grew up in a council house and I'm so glad I never knew people had such a low opinion of people living in council houses when I was a child.
There are good and bad people everywhere.
My family were hardworking. They just couldn't afford to buy a house.
Looking down on people because they don't own a property is pretty poor tbh.

the beer revolu

fussyonion wrote: »

Looking down on people because they don't own a property is pretty poor tbh.

I think you are being too kind.

Yurt2

Marhay70 wrote: »

Not apples and apples, this situation will resolve itself once we return to more normal times.
Unfortunately, the is a section of society who think they are entitled to everything but don't want to pay for any of it and these have been facilitated by inept and self serving politicians, aided and abetted by a totally incompetent Civil Service and a blinkered Judiciary, none of whom are ever likely to have to put up with the type of arsehole this thread is about, living next door to them.
There is no doubt that there are those within the "moneyed" classes who are less than model citizens but they tend to commit what is laughingly known as "victimless crime" and not draw attention to themselves by annoying their neighbours.

I wouldn't like to live next to you.

Bug-eyed rants about the judiciary, the civil service. I bet there's nobody you actually like, not even yourself deep down.

the beer revolu

fussyonion wrote: »

I grew up in a council house and I'm so glad I never knew people had such a low opinion of people living in council houses when I was a child.

Thing is that these people lashing out here don't even pause to consider that there's probably posters here that live in social housing and most certainly (obviously) people who grew up in social housing.

And when pulled on their broad brush discrimination will then try to back pedal insisting that they aren't referring to the decent arseholes/wasters/scum who live in social housing. It just sounded like that.

Yurt2

the beer revolu wrote: »

Thing is that these people lashing out here don't even pause to consider that there's probably posters here that live in social housing and most certainly (obviously) people who grew up in social housing.

And when pulled on their broad brush discrimination will then try to back pedal insisting that they aren't referring to the decent arseholes/wasters/scum who live in social housing. It just sounded like that.

I good swathe of Ireland are complete snobs and have contempt for a lot of people coursing through their veins. If someone isn't like them / from the same caste as them (as they see them), they're fair game.

People in social housing provision in my estate are fine people, their kids mix well and the parents (shock!) go out to work every day - probably in occupations that some posters here sh*t on (service industry). Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

the beer revolu

Yurt! wrote: »

I good swathe of Ireland are complete snobs and have contempt for a lot of people coursing through their veins. If someone isn't like them / from the same caste as them (as they see them), they're fair game.

People in social housing provision in my estate are fine people, their kids mix well and the parents (shock!) go out to work every day - probably in occupations that some posters here sh*t on (service industry). Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I mostly stay out of these kind of threads as I find it genuinely saddening to realise how horrible so many of my fellow citizens really are.

Sometimes, I can't help myself, though, and I react.

Thelonious Monk

Weren't we at full employment before covid? I wonder how many of these life long dolers there actually are? I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people want some kind of job, and the ones who never worked are probably too ill disciplined to hold down a job anyway.
I live in a place that is mostly social housing or at least a lot of it is and any of my neighbours that I know have jobs.

Yurt2

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Weren't we at full employment before covid? I wonder how many of these life long dolers there actually are? I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people want some kind of job, and the ones who never worked are probably too ill disciplined to hold down a job anyway.
I live in a place that is mostly social housing or at least a lot of it is and any of my neighbours that I know have jobs.

Some people have a deeply embedded notion that there is an army of a million or more indolents in this country that have been signing on since their confirmation day. They're convinced it's probably one in three of the population but they themselves are part of the upright heroic class holding everything together in the face of the feckless hordes. They are completely impervious to facts or data that contradicts their conspiratorial worldview. I recall a poster ages ago saying the ESRI was infiltrated by People Before Profit. That kind of thing.

Daily Mail or Telegraph values repurposed for the mediocre Irishman / woman that stops them thinking too hard about insurance cartels (Darndale whiplash fruad!) and the like.

Ah tbf theres a fair few ways that the figures are well massaged before they become "unemployed"

Yurt2

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah tbf theres a fair few ways that the figures are well massaged before they become "unemployed"

Case in point. The ESRI PBP conspiracy poster came to that conclusion after he/she was presented with damning to his case facts that Ireland was not in fact awash with fake disabled people signed on to the sick instead of being at home on the X-Box hitting a hash pipe.

mariaalice

Yurt! wrote: »

Some people have a deeply embedded notion that there is an army of a million or more indolents in this country that have been signing on since their confirmation day. They're convinced it's probably one in three of the population but they themselves are part of the upright heroic class holding everything together in the face of the feckless hordes. They are completely impervious to facts or data that contradicts their conspiratorial worldview. I recall a poster ages ago saying the ESRI was infiltrated by People Before Profit. That kind of thing.

Daily Mail or Telegraph values repurposed for the mediocre Irishman / woman that stops them thinking too hard about insurance cartels (Darndale whiplash fruad!) and the like.

It's a coping mechanism for some, someone to blame, or a way of biging themselves up, and strangely enough, some are mediating slight depression or anxiety by ruminating about those on welfare.

Yurt!

Yurt! wrote: »

Case in point. The ESRI PBP conspiracy poster came to that conclusion after he/she was presented with damning to his case facts that Ireland was not in fact awash with fake disabled people signed on to the sick instead of being at home on the X-Box hitting a hash pipe.

No idea how much of this is aimed at me tbh, but im speaking from experience working in front line provision of services relating to benefits, even at full employment there's no shortage of categories for wasters

Bluefoam

I'll be honest... I worked my hole off for 10 years, for four of thos I didn't go for pints or meals... Avoided relationships... I left the country and worked extremely stressful jobs, achieved a certain amount of success. Saved and saved and saved... Went through the hell that is the mortgage process in this country, it was humiliating, invasive and unfair. Now I have years of mortgage payments to get through and a life dedicated to working in a job I don't like just to keep that house. The house itself is small, it's okay, but I'd like more for what I paid...

Yet, the house next door was given to someone who doesn't work... She was given the same as what I had to go through hell to get... She can afford a car that's nicer than mine, she doesn't cut her lawn, she hasn't weeded the flower beds since she moved in and now they are infesting my beds, I had to skimp on flooring, but she's got the best of everything... There's plastic toys strewn across her drive, the footpath and the road. She also seems to have four people living in a two bedroom house....

Now I've no problem with social provision, I believe in it. But what is there for people to aspire to, if you reward people for doing so little and make life so difficult for people who aspire to achieve.... What is there to actually aspire to?

BTW, I'm not deriding my neighbor directly, I just think she's a prime example of so many....

Life is exhausting right now and it just makes me think that maybe its better to give up and take from the system instead of contributing to it.

And I'll finish by saying well done to everyone who works hard for what they have, you deserve a put on the back whether you own your house or living in a social house. I'm not against all on social welfare nor those in social housing, I'm just highlighting the plight of the everyday worker.

No doubt someone will tell me how awful I am for saying this and I'm some sort of elitist... But people need to have the ability to aspire to improve themselves and their lives...

Thelonious Monk

is 4 people in a 2 bed house unusual or something? that was the case for my family till I was 8 or so anyway.

Bluefoam

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

is 4 people in a 2 bed house unusual or something? that was the case for my family till I was 8 or so anyway.

One male adult in his 70s (the tenants father), a female in her 30s/40s, a male in his 20s and a young female child... That does not work out and certainly doesn't meet the criteria for social housing.

My mother grew up in a two bed house with her parents and 8 kids, but that was their own house.

Yurt2

Deleted User wrote: »

No idea how much of this is aimed at me tbh, but im speaking from experience working in front line provision of services relating to benefits, even at full employment there's no shortage of categories for wasters

And I've experience working with the great and good of this country (public and private sector) that fill our newpapers - who employ PR goons to keep the kayfabe going to the public that they're utterly brilliant and deserve their riches .Trust me, the amount of greasers and feckless with their hand in the taxpayer cookie jar wearing suits far outstrips those on modest benefits for whatever reason. I'm not mad at a single mother having a roof over her head and a few bob to get by.

Too many people have drunk the kool-aid that those at the bottom rungs of society are somehow responsible for the unforgiving neo-liberal sh*tshow that makes life's essentials (like dignified housing) so expensive.

Studies across developed countries show that for every dollar given on benefits, up to ten dollars of savings are made elsewhere. Apart from being a good idea for maintaining some sort of social cohesion and good economic sense, it's also a backstop from ensuring society doesn't go full lord of the flies and seeing upper class people's heads on pikes on College Green. The people who run our country know this.

Yurt2

Bluefoam wrote: »

I'll be honest... I worked my hole off for 10 years, for four of thos I didn't go for pints or meals... Avoided relationships... I left the country and worked extremely stressful jobs, achieved a certain amount of success. Saved and saved and saved... Went through the hell that is the mortgage process in this country, it was humiliating, invasive and unfair. Now I have years of mortgage payments to get through and a life dedicated to working in a job I don't like just to keep that house. The house itself is small, it's okay, but I'd like more for what I paid...

Yet, the house next door was given to someone who doesn't work... She was given the same as what I had to go through hell to get... She can afford a car that's nicer than mine, she doesn't cut her lawn, she hasn't weeded the flower beds since she moved in and now they are infesting my beds, I had to skimp on flooring, but she's got the best of everything... There's plastic toys strewn across her drive, the footpath and the road. She also seems to have four people living in a two bedroom house....

Now I've no problem with social provision, I believe in it. But what is there for people to aspire to, if you reward people for doing so little and make life so difficult for people who aspire to achieve.... What is there to actually aspire to?

BTW, I'm not deriding my neighbor directly, I just think she's a prime example of so many....

Life is exhausting right now and it just makes me think that maybe its better to give up and take from the system instead of contributing to it.

And I'll finish by saying well done to everyone who works hard for what they have, you deserve a put on the back whether you own your house or living in a social house. I'm not against all on social welfare nor those in social housing, I'm just highlighting the plight of the everyday worker.

No doubt someone will tell me how awful I am for saying this and I'm some sort of elitist... But people need to have the ability to aspire to improve themselves and their lives...

I applaud you for doing what you had to to secure your house. But the bolded is not the fault of your neighbour. If you're going to get mad, get mad at the right people.

Bluefoam

Yurt! wrote: »

I applaud you for doing what you had to to secure your house. But the bolded is not the fault of your neighbour. If you're going to get mad, get mad at the right people.

Yeh... So you missed my point and decided to make an alternative arguement from what I said... Clever you.

Yurt2

Bluefoam wrote: »

Yeh... So you missed my point and decided to make an alternative arguement from what I said... Clever you.

No, I'd submit I got your point in its entirety.

You displayed an inordinate amount of frustration at what it took to secure your house (and I wont disagree with you there), but you're mad that someone else didn't have to go through what you did to end up what you appear to think is the same place (even though it's not, you'll own yours outright, she'll likely never).

Once again, you're mad at the wrong people. You may think she's feckless, and you may be right, or again you might be wrong - you don't know her full story - and I doubt very much the social handed her a car so perhaps there's money coming from a partner (or that she works from home and you have her judged wrong).

Regardless, she didn't make the current sh*tshow where workers have to go to extraordinary lengths to get a mortgage. There are people in this country (and outside it) driving even nicer cars than your neighbors' connected with that industry laughing at both of ye at the moment. Worth bearing in mind.

Bluefoam

Yurt! wrote: »

No, I'd submit I got your point in its entirety.

You displayed an inordinate amount of frustration at what it took to secure your house (and I wont disagree with you there), but you're mad that someone else didn't have to go through what you did to end up what you appear to think is the same place (even though it's not, you'll own yours outright, she'll likely never).

Once again, you're mad at the wrong people. You may think she's feckless, and you may be right, or again you might be wrong - you don't know her full story.

Regardless, she didn't make the current sh*tshow where workers have to go to extraordinary lengths to get a mortgage. There are people in this country (and outside it) driving even nicer cars than your neighbors' connected with that industry laughing at both of ye at the moment. Worth baring in mind.

So, rather than correct your assumptions, I'll correct myself. I didn't manage to make my point effectively...

What I'm pissed off with is that my neighbour has shown a lack of respect for the house she was given and a lack of respect for myself and the other neighbours. We all look after our properties, but she doesn't do likewise... There is a social disconnect.

Thelonious Monk

Bluefoam wrote: »

So, rather than correct your assumptions, I'll correct myself. I didn't manage to make my point effectively...

What I'm pissed off with is that my neighbour has shown a lack of respect for the house she was given and a lack of respect for myself and the other neighbours. We all look after our properties, but she doesn't do likewise... There is a social disconnect.

Some of my neighbours are the same, I wouldn't let long grass or toys bother you though, what's the point? I'm just glad I have somewhere to live at all given the current housing crisis.

Yurt2

Bluefoam wrote: »

So, rather than correct your assumptions, I'll correct myself. I didn't manage to make my point effectively...

What I'm pissed off with is that my neighbour has shown a lack of respect for the house she was given and a lack of respect for myself and the other neighbours. We all look after our properties, but she doesn't do likewise... There is a social disconnect.

Have a chat with her then. I've had to have words with neighbors before (both social, private owners and indeed private renters) about issues. You've made her into some sort of benefits Queen sociological case study because there are plastic toys on her lawn. She's not taking a hit of a crack pipe in her underwear.

May I suggest you're letting your resentments about housing and the housing process bleed into your relationship and perceptions of your neighbour?