DAVE CHAPPELLE: Critics versus Audience review

Silentcorner

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Right so you're allowed politicise it but I'm not.

Do you agree with the premise of my argument or do you just disagree with me for the sake of it.

Too Tough To Die

I don't see how you could be a fan of his earlier stuff and not find anything funny in this one. It was his weakest of the 4 on Netflix so far but 4 in the span of 2 years is ridiculous output for a stand-up comedian. Still funny and better than 99% of comedians out there.

Realt Dearg Sec

Silentcorner wrote: »

Do you agree with the premise of my argument or do you just disagree with me for the sake of it.

I like the idea of evaluating comedy on its merits instead of its political content, sure. Funnily enough that's exactly what I was doing in the post you decided to pull me up on, and something that the OP was definitely not trying to do in his, but you didn't have a problem with that.

Several people have been trying to argue, in fact, that the poor critic reviews of the special have more to do with the fact that it isn't his best work than with its political content, but it is those who constantly use terms like "SJWs" that are refusing to see this as anything other than a political issue. For the OP and others on this thread, anyone claiming the special wasn't really funny MUST be saying it for political reasons. They're not.

I'm a huge fan of Chappelle, I just think this was average at best.

But aside from that, I'm not sure that the idea of evaluating the comedy without reference to politics is realistic. Chappelle's comedy is massively political and engages in culture war debates constantly. So is Chappelle allowed to air his political viewpoint, but others aren't allowed respond? Of course not, that's crazy. Comedy is political at the end of the day.

Personally I just think the problem here is that he has done too many specials in too short a time, so the material isn't A grade. Louis CK used to do one a year and that was regarded as a massive output. Ultimately that's more important than the political content or whatever. I don't agree politically with Doug Stanhope either, but he is always hilarious so it doesn't really matter.

Finally, I'm putting down this prediction right now: Chappelle has always reacted against any effort to pigeon hole him as one thing or another. The Breitbart, anti-SJW crowd who have now decided he is their champion will be the next thing he reacts against, and when he does, there will be a thread on here in which someone claims that he was silenced or compelled by the liberals to conform to their groupthink or whatever. When that happens, I hope you are as quick to call that poster out for the political slant on the show, rather than just evaluating it on its merits.

Realt Dearg Sec

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I don't see how you could be a fan of his earlier stuff and not find anything funny in this one. It was his weakest of the 4 on Netflix so far but 4 in the span of 2 years is ridiculous output for a stand-up comedian. Still funny and better than 99% of comedians out there.

Yeah in some ways he's being measured against his own best work, which is unfair on him. There's so much crap comedy on Netflix and elsewhere, it would be disingenuous to claim this was awful or anything, some great bits in it.

Silentcorner

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I like the idea of evaluating comedy on its merits instead of its political content, sure. Funnily enough that's exactly what I was doing in the post you decided to pull me up on, and something that the OP was definitely not trying to do in his, but you didn't have a problem with that.

Several people have been trying to argue, in fact, that the poor critic reviews of the special have more to do with the fact that it isn't his best work than with its political content, but it is those who constantly use terms like "SJWs" that are refusing to see this as anything other than a political issue. For the OP and others on this thread, anyone claiming the special wasn't really funny MUST be saying it for political reasons. They're not.

I'm a huge fan of Chappelle, I just think this was average at best.

But aside from that, I'm not sure that the idea of evaluating the comedy without reference to politics is realistic. Chappelle's comedy is massively political and engages in culture war debates constantly. So is Chappelle allowed to air his political viewpoint, but others aren't allowed respond? Of course not, that's crazy. Comedy is political at the end of the day.

Personally I just think the problem here is that he has done too many specials in too short a time, so the material isn't A grade. Louis CK used to do one a year and that was regarded as a massive output. Ultimately that's more important than the political content or whatever. I don't agree politically with Doug Stanhope either, but he is always hilarious so it doesn't really matter.

Finally, I'm putting down this prediction right now: Chappelle has always reacted against any effort to pigeon hole him as one thing or another. The Breitbart, anti-SJW crowd who have now decided he is their champion will be the next thing he reacts against, and when he does, there will be a thread on here in which someone claims that he was silenced or compelled by the liberals to conform to their groupthink or whatever. When that happens, I hope you are as quick to call that poster out for the political slant on the show, rather than just evaluating it on its merits.

The "Breitbart/Anti SJW types"...you just can't help yourself, you were making some really good points up to that, the very nature of the SJW/Outrage Culture mob is to divide...where there really should be no division...this is comedy, and reviews, it is nuts that we are even having this discussion....you are buying into that divisive culture whether you realise it or not, I am sick and tired of that culture as are many more.



While you make some good points, it still doesn't explain how "Nanette" from Hannah Gatsby received such critical acclaim for what was, from start to finish, utter garbage.

Venom

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I don't see how you could be a fan of his earlier stuff and not find anything funny in this one. It was his weakest of the 4 on Netflix so far but 4 in the span of 2 years is ridiculous output for a stand-up comedian. Still funny and better than 99% of comedians out there.

It's an insane amount of material to come up within so sort a time for sure. Most of the comedy podcasts I listen to, talk at length about needing one year to prefect an hours worth of material and tweaking the various jokes via gigs before having their special recorded. Dave came out of retirement due to the crazy amount of money Netflix tossed at him for doing those specials so no surprise his material is not top-notch but its a hell of a lot better than the critic ratings portray.

Screw Attack

Anyone with an IQ over 50 knows that audience scores are complete bull****. A former editor at Rotten Tomatoes itself has gone on record saying so.

Ironicname

Is it ok to joke about gays, transgender people and paedophilia?

I think it is.

Realt Dearg Sec

Silentcorner wrote: »

The "Breitbart/Anti SJW types"...you just can't help yourself, you were making some really good points up to that, the very nature of the SJW/Outrage Culture mob is to divide

So in a nutshell, it's fine for you to refer to the "SJW/outrage culture mob" but if someone calls doing that anti-SJW it's divisive?

Yeah that's fair.

Can you not see how someone night regard that as hypocritical?


I don't know who Nanette whatever is, so I have no opinion on that.

Realt Dearg Sec

Silentcorner wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I like the idea of evaluating comedy on its merits instead of its political content, sure. Funnily enough that's exactly what I was doing in the post you decided to pull me up on, and something that the OP was definitely not trying to do in his, but you didn't have a problem with that.

Several people have been trying to argue, in fact, that the poor critic reviews of the special have more to do with the fact that it isn't his best work than with its political content, but it is those who constantly use terms like "SJWs" that are refusing to see this as anything other than a political issue. For the OP and others on this thread, anyone claiming the special wasn't really funny MUST be saying it for political reasons. They're not.

I'm a huge fan of Chappelle, I just think this was average at best.

But aside from that, I'm not sure that the idea of evaluating the comedy without reference to politics is realistic. Chappelle's comedy is massively political and engages in culture war debates constantly. So is Chappelle allowed to air his political viewpoint, but others aren't allowed respond? Of course not, that's crazy. Comedy is political at the end of the day.

Personally I just think the problem here is that he has done too many specials in too short a time, so the material isn't A grade. Louis CK used to do one a year and that was regarded as a massive output. Ultimately that's more important than the political content or whatever. I don't agree politically with Doug Stanhope either, but he is always hilarious so it doesn't really matter.

Finally, I'm putting down this prediction right now: Chappelle has always reacted against any effort to pigeon hole him as one thing or another. The Breitbart, anti-SJW crowd who have now decided he is their champion will be the next thing he reacts against, and when he does, there will be a thread on here in which someone claims that he was silenced or compelled by the liberals to conform to their groupthink or whatever. When that happens, I hope you are as quick to call that poster out for the political slant on the show, rather than just evaluating it on its merits.

The "Breitbart/Anti SJW types"...you just can't help yourself, you were making some really good points up to that, the very nature of the SJW/Outrage Culture mob is to divide...where there really should be no division...this is comedy, and reviews, it is nuts that we are even having this discussion....you are buying into that divisive culture whether you realise it or not, I am sick and tired of that culture as are many more.



While you make some good points, it still doesn't explain how "Nanette" from Hannah Gatsby received such critical acclaim for what was, from start to finish, utter garbage.

I should say, i do fundamentally agree that this all pervasive culture war stuff is tedious. I live in the states so I get it up close. But you seem to think that the divisiveness is coming from the left. Exclusively. You seen pretty immersed in the idea of "SJW/outrage mob" stuff so that you're not actually seeing that your views, too, are shaped by an ideological perspective, and a pretty divisive one at that. The tendency towards name calling while not recognising that this is very likely to alienate your opponents and prevent any meaningful dialogue is the very essence of divisiveness.

Silentcorner

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

So in a nutshell, it's fine for you to refer to the "SJW/outrage culture mob" but if someone calls doing that anti-SJW it's divisive?

Yeah that's fair.

Can you not see how someone night regard that as hypocritical?


I don't know who Nanette whatever is, so I have no opinion on that.

No, no, that is not what I meant, you insisted in naming Breitbart like the only people who are Anti SJW can only be readers of Breitbart because that is how you perceive people who are Anti SJW....I cannot stand the SJW/Outrage mob, they will continue to infest media and culture as long as they are tolerated which I think is beginning to turn on them...the special we are referring to could easily be the point where that intolerance of the SJW Hysteria mob starts to go mainstream.


For the record, I have never visited Breitbart, the only international media outlet I visit is The Guardian, which is itself a pale imitation of what was once a quality outlet...media standards are in the gutter.


I believe that the SJW movement, like the flatearthers, have materialised over the last number of years facilitated by Social Media rabbit holes, you can spot someone who has over indulged in toxic media content a mile off...the only difference between the Flatearth Movement and the SJW movement is that mainstream media has drenched itself in SJW Culture.



It is a modern day hysteria movement.

Silentcorner

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I should say, i do fundamentally agree that this all pervasive culture war stuff is tedious. I live in the states so I get it up close. But you seem to think that the divisiveness is coming from the left. Exclusively. You seen pretty immersed in the idea of "SJW/outrage mob" stuff so that you're not actually seeing that your views, too, are shaped by an ideological perspective, and a pretty divisive one at that. The tendency towards name calling while not recognising that this is very likely to alienate your opponents and prevent any meaningful dialogue is the very essence of divisiveness.

Again, some good solid points, I would argue that this movement is much more aligned with what would be far left ideology, I will link to a discussion between a former Feminist, a Democrat, and a well known liberal tv presenter, it is the left that are engaging in hysteria.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4AJQBT52rk

Realt Dearg Sec

The mistake here I think is the word "movement". There's no such movement, it's just a tendency, one that is exaggerated on the internet, and by people like bill Maher (whose show I like and watch, but Jesus this hobby house if his is completely unhelpful). The tendency to exaggerate the extent of political correctness is I think directly related to the tendency to label anyone who expresses a "progressive" view, or who, say, criticises a show because they think it's transphobic or whatever, as an "sjw" and part of a "mob". I don't see that as anything but driving a wedge between people, boiling everything down to caricature

Realt Dearg Sec

Point taken about Breitbart although the reason I mentioned it is that it was linked directly in this thread

interactive

Left wing PC SJW ideas can only exist with heavy censorship and moderation, if you have free speech and light moderation the discussion will always move in the right direction.
Here we have Dave's show almost universally liked by the people, but the left wing PC SJW hate this fact and try and shut it down, we even had them saying , "we watched it so you don't have to , stay away its no good."
How pathetic is that level of attempted censorship?

Checkmate19

Mordern comedy has been ruined by pc. Alot of good comedy hits close to the bone. Comedians like Sarah Macmillian is the standard now. In offensive bland tripe.

interactive

Alison Spittle is the future of comedy if the PC SJW people get their way, God help us.

Realt Dearg Sec

interactive wrote: »

Left wing PC SJW ideas can only exist with heavy censorship and moderation, if you have free speech and light moderation the discussion will always move in the right direction.
Here we have Dave's show almost universally liked by the people, but the left wing PC SJW hate this fact and try and shut it down, we even had them saying , "we watched it so you don't have to , stay away its no good."
How pathetic is that level of attempted censorship?

Silentcorner i know this guy above is a sad, pathetic misfortune, but I think he illustrates my point pretty well.

James Brown

Lads Chappelle wouldn't be on TV, as a black man, nor saying any kind of edgy gags, if not for the SJW, liberals or what ever other conservative Americanism the kids are all using.
The idea that the Alt-right, lets be honest here, are the champions for free speech from the liberal PC crowd is a con job.

interactive wrote: »

Left wing PC SJW ideas can only exist with heavy censorship and moderation, if you have free speech and light moderation the discussion will always move in the right direction.
Here we have Dave's show almost universally liked by the people, but the left wing PC SJW hate this fact and try and shut it down, we even had them saying , "we watched it so you don't have to , stay away its no good."
How pathetic is that level of attempted censorship?

Says who exactly? You realise it's on Netflix all over the world? Who's censoring this? Give over. Some people are giving out about it but a hell of a lot more like yourself are making more noise complaining about the real of imagined complainers. Talk about triggered and snow flakes.

interactive

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Lads Chappelle wouldn't be on TV, as a black man, nor saying any kind of edgy gags, if not for the SJW, liberals or what ever other conservative Americanism the kids are all using.
The idea that the Alt-right, lets be honest here, are the champions for free speech from the liberal PC crowd is a con job.



Says who exactly? You realise it's on Netflix all over the world? Who's censoring this? Give over. Some people are giving out about it but a hell of a lot more like yourself are making more noise complaining about the real of imagined complainers. Talk about triggered and snow flakes.

Your post is angry!
Typical of the PC SJW type, they cannot comprehend that they and their opinion are in the minority and demand that all other opinions are censored.
Its really very sad, no doubt their every day life must be a nightmare, everywhere they look people who think and act differently from them.

Realt Dearg Sec

interactive wrote: »

censored.

James Brown

interactive wrote: »

Your post is angry!
Typical of the PC SJW type, they cannot comprehend that they and their opinion are in the minority and demand that all other opinions are censored.
Its really very sad, no doubt their every day life must be a nightmare, everywhere they look people who think and act differently from them.

I'm a massive Dave fan. Seen all his specials and most of the shows. I think you're getting ahead of your outrage
Sticks and Stones is probably his weakest IMO. Liked the whole #justiceforjuicy and comments on being poor.

You missed my entire comment. You realise it's on Netflix right? All over the world? Chappelle wouldn't have a career if not for SJWs

I'll tell you what censorship is, calling people, (speaking generally) who argue on behalf of minorities demeaning names like SJW. Like fighting for social justice is something to be ashamed of.

James Brown

interactive wrote: »

Alison Spittle is the future of comedy if the PC SJW people get their way, God help us.

You're mixing up the real world with RTE. RTE doesn't operate in our dimension. There always has been her like on RTE and always will be.

Eric Cartman

interactive wrote: »

Alison Spittle is the future of comedy if the PC SJW people get their way, God help us.

I dont know if its feasible to make the genre of comedy drop its bar that low.

Venom

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I dont know if its feasible to make the genre of comedy drop its bar that low.

Wanna bet :pac:

James Brown

Ya'll must be very young if you think censorship or dull comedy is a new move from the left

fyfe79

careless sherpa wrote: »

I like most of chappelles stuff but his latest offering felt pretty flat. Leaving aside the controversy it was a pale imitation of his earlier routines. Even the audience seemed pretty lacklustre although maybe they felt awkward. The laughing at himself and walking to the back of the set while the audience barely made a sound seemed like a bizarre atmosphere

YES! Can't stand that about Chapelle - thought it was just me. Similar to Dara O'Briain's "abddaaaaaaaaaaa" sound as his 'laugh now' signal. :P

fyfe79

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Not that good?

It has gotten great reviews by anyone who isn't a SJW. Imdb has it at 8.6 out of 10 currently. You would struggle to find a funnier hour of comedy released this year, that does not qualify as 'meh'.

It was good, but Bill Burr's new one was better I thought. I think Bill and Tom Segura are among the best US comedians/social commentators around today.

Ash.J.Williams

interactive wrote: »

Left wing PC SJW ideas can only exist with heavy censorship and moderation, if you have free speech and light moderation the discussion will always move in the right direction.
Here we have Dave's show almost universally liked by the people, but the left wing PC SJW hate this fact and try and shut it down, we even had them saying , "we watched it so you don't have to , stay away its no good."
How pathetic is that level of attempted censorship?

the comedy you refer to is actually left wing, what you call "left" is actually just sh1te

Ash.J.Williams

fyfe79 wrote: »

It was good, but Bill Burr's new one was better I thought. I think Bill and Tom Segura are among the best US comedians/social commentators around today.

Bill is the king at the min