Applegreen own brand chargers

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676384#Comment_120676384

How 9ften do you need to use a public charger?

I've paid €33 for public charging this year and it was €42 last year. All the rest is at 10c night rates so for those very rare occasions I do need to pay for public charging I don't mind.

7.1L/100km is what my Golf used to do and my wife's Karoq was 7.5L/100km. Unfortunately both of those had to be filled at €1.50 a litre and that was before prices went mad.

Fingleberries

I'd use public charging as little as possible, lucky with a home charger and the options at work, but needs must on a road trip - 2-3 hour drive, don't necessarily want to take a 40 min detour to charge, if you can avoid it.

The funny thing is that I've taken the car on the ferry to UK twice and spent less using public charging in the UK (Holyhead to Manchester round trip, twice, plus driving around over there) than it cost me for the road trip yesterday.

Dubwat

Well, Paulstown will cost you nothing now because ALL chargers are off-line.

Thank god I charged in Dublin because there's basically nothing until Dungarvan, Co Waterford which is a SPOF itself!

Hopefully not a trend as they've been faulty the last 2/3 times I've used them :(

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679461#Comment_120679461

The Circle K in Tinyrland is live isn't it?

Dubwat

Never heard of Tinyrland (Junc. 5) but looks like it's in Carlow so 20km in wrong direction for me :(

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679767#Comment_120679767

It's literally 1 minute off the N9. It's actually 2 junctions before you turn off for Paulstown if you are heading away from Dublin.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679767#Comment_120679767

It's where tinyurl is based 😁

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679890#Comment_120679890

To be fair it's pretty small, even tinier than Tinyland

Dubwat

Thanks. I know where it is now that TitianGerm mentioned it.

It's not listed in Ecars, Applegreen or EasyGo. Plugshare has it but doesn't say what app is needed. Doesn't sound too reliable anyways.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679953#Comment_120679953

It's Circle K and you pay with your card.

Dubwat

Paulstown is back online according to the AG app.

k123456

I have used AG a couple of times, and thank God we have an alt to Ecars, which are un reliable , often occupied . I have a 28kwh Ioniq , left Sth Dublin with full "tank", travelled to Lough Ennel, near Mullingar. On way home, wanted to charge at EasyGo, Kinnegad Plaza, all two chargers there "out of order"

Next stop Appletree service station on N4, E lane , charger at Ecars occupied , AG not

AG easy to use and intuitive

It does cost a little more than Ecars, but it works

There was one clown with an EV , parked in AG spot,no cable plugged in , unfortunately, no much can be done about ignorance

Im open to correction , but I think Ecars charge slows down at 80%, and AG at 95%

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120687653#Comment_120687653

Normally the slow down is decided by the car, the car advertises the maximum power for that charge percentage, based on battery temperature and capabilities of battery and car etc. Then it's up to the charger to supply up to that power and typically for 50kW chargers that means most cars can take all 50kW much of the way to 80% and beyond. 150kW chargers many cars struggle to allow that much.

Some of the better can can pre warm the batteries and have heating and cooling to try keep the battery in the sweet spot for maximum speed meaning many teslas and EV6 can hit 150kW+ easily for large parts of the charge.

Some ESB chargers are 50 or 150kW but the supply maximum to the charger itself is less so they can never achieve their "headline" speed.

innrain

Planning permission sought for an upgrade including a number of EV charging units Fingal planning ref: FW23A/0162

Applegreen Service Station, St. Margaret's Road, Dubber, Co. Dublin, K67 KF77

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704151#Comment_120704151

Interesting that the last 2 bays look larger than standard, presumable for vans etc... or maybe I'm seeing it wrong

the_amazing_raisin

Bit of an interesting/strange spot, kind of in the middle of nowhere while being close to the airport and Charlestown Shopping centre

I assume it's aiming to capture some of the airport traffic, M50 users and Finglas residents who don't have access to home charging

I'm surprised that Applegreen didn't go for somewhere inside the M50, but I think it's all Circle K inside the M50 in that area

Maybe they'll put chargers in the Applegreen Santry station as well, that would be North Dublin pretty well covered then

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704271#Comment_120704271

Either you're crazy or have way better eyesight than me 😂

I don't see bigger spaces, but it looks like the spaces at each end have dedicated chargers, whereas the middle 5 are shared units

So I wonder will there be higher powered chargers for those spaces, or will be they limited to 60kW or so 🤔

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704271#Comment_120704271

I don't see it myself but my guess is that's an optical illusion caused by the diagonal lines on either side of the spaces

the_amazing_raisin

I just noticed the text mentions a canopy, I'll miss being rained on while waiting for the charger to start (not)

Actually it's probably a moot point since I live within 20km of that service station so it's unlikely I'll ever use it

Of course now that I've said it, I bet I'll mess up my charging calculations and end up needing a charge there 😂

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704151#Comment_120704151

I stick a "coming soon" on to plugshare app

https://www.plugshare.com/location/532588

liamog

I can see them picking up a lot of Taxi business being close to the Airport

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715026#Comment_120715026

Very expensive for a taxi driver to depend on. If in a pinch ePower from Radisson is better.

Red Silurian

Be nice if they (and other providers) offered a discounted unit rate for a modest monthly fee, it would help increase EV adoption for those who don't have a driveway...

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715244#Comment_120715244

Ecars isn't cheap and the Circle K in the airport seems to get a lot of taxis despite that

I imagine it won't be the first choice but will probably still get a fair bit of taxis because of location and the lower chance of queueing

It'd be a win for Applegreen as they'd pull in a lot of taxis on their break as well. I imagine something like an ID.4 taxi probably gets charged to 100% overnight and then charged over lunch up to 80% or so. With over 350km of range year round, I imagine that would cover multiple airport runs around the city per day

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717008#Comment_120717008

Appelgreen in 75c/kWh while on ePower/ESB I have 47c/kWh using elli. They also have the taxi only chargers which are 32c/kWh+30c session if they have airport rank access. Big difference for regular use.

vinniem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717153#Comment_120717153

Can you only get 0.47c with Eli if you drive VW, Cupra etc?

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717460#Comment_120717460

I don't think thee is a restriction of brand with Elli. I signed up with Hyundai but I think others here did it with Tesla. They announced higher prices from this month but I see they have business pricing which are not that bad. For 6 quid a month 46c/kWh at DC and 56c/KWh at Ionity. I imagine all prices exVAT.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717153#Comment_120717153

I think the price went up recently, but I agree it's a good bit more expensive if you're using regularly

I'm sure AG are going to bring out a subscription option at some point or go into a partnership with Elli and other MSPs

vinniem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717647#Comment_120717647

Yeah I downloaded Eli app this morning and any ecar chargers I selected were all 0.82c/kw😲

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717887#Comment_120717887

I think it's 70c/kWh on the paid plan, which is probably worth it if you're a taxi driver but still a far cry from 47c/kWh

We charge are currently at 50c/kWh for the equivalent plan, so I guess the VW group taxis would probably still prefer Ecars

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717646#Comment_120717646

Ah I didn't spot the business plan

https://www.elli.eco/en/b2b/products/fleets

Looks like the price is ex VAT, which presumably Taxi drivers don't pay on charging anyway

talla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717460#Comment_120717460

No any brand, I've a Tesla MY and I'm on the previous drive highway prices - 47c Ecars, 35c Ionity.

Will be on that price to March next year and then will discontinue the plan as new prices aren't worth it.

People who signed up before Dec 22 were on even cheaper unit rates.

zg3409

Saw this on Facebook, if you are gb/ni you cannot see ROI chargers and presumably vice versa. If you email them they can configure your account to see both.

Red Silurian

Applegreen 75c/kWh + €30 pre-auth

Circle K - 69c/kWh + €20 pre-auth

The irony in Circle K being cheaper than Applegreen for car charging after years of the opposite being true for petrol and diesel is not lost on me

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721491#Comment_120721491

Both of those are in stark comparison to Tesla at 39-43c/kWh and no pre-auth. I wonder what's driving the price difference, presumably they're all buying on the same market. Did Tesla get lucky with their hedging strategy or are AG/CK just using eCars pricing as a baseline?

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721582#Comment_120721582

I think there are a number of factors.

Tesla is buying at High Voltage prices or whatever the correct terminology is. When you build your own substation prices are much lower than when you install 1-2 chargers. Similar for Ionity. Bigger initial investment but long term much cheaper to run.

Tesla's chargers cost a fraction of others with similar spec or lower. The ABBs AG got are fairly old models but I won't be surprised they paid big money.

The chargers are managed by a third party and most likely they got screwed up there too. When I was looking at tender documentation for our block of apartments, the service charge was 10% of the value of the energy transitioned. A bump in electricity price meant a bump in overheads which meant a bigger bump for end user.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721582#Comment_120721582

I think you have to look at the differential between Supercharger pricing and Non-Tesla Supercharger pricing to help answer the question. The sites in France are charging 39c/kWh vs 52c/kWh. The 52c/kWh is not a million miles away from the 64.7c/kWh eCars charge and is likely due to them signing their forward purchase agreement at a bad time.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721893#Comment_120721893

Yeah essentially a Tesla owner is paying €40k for a charging discount and priority at some charging hubs*

*Yes I'm aware they also get an excellent car and a whole rake of high tech services. My point is more that Tesla owners are effectively paying a large upfront cost to support the network and get a discount as a result

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721893#Comment_120721893

To be fair is more like 68c at ESB as the SuC would qualify as HPC.

Also this guy says the non Tesla pricing in FR dropped to 43-47c which kinda widens the gap to something around 50%

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721582#Comment_120721582

Ecars will probably argue that they hedge further ahead than Tesla do so their prices are higher and more stable as a result but they won't, or can't, prove it

More likely private interests and profit keeping prices high at the moment

Fingleberries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725089#Comment_120725089

SuC pricing in Ireland is now 39c/kWh (off peak) and 43c (peak), which is crazy good value compared to eCars, Applegreen and CircleK (or if you were charging at home on day-rate, for some reason). We only need more of them on the Island 🙂

Not to derail this thread too much, as it is specifically for Applegreen - I like the layout of the AG chargers. The cable is long enough to reach pretty much any combination of charge port location on your vehicle - but that thing is heavy!

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738242#Comment_120738242

The cable is long enough to reach pretty much any combination of charge port location on your vehicle

Pretty much this.

Any car in any space and you are 100% guaranteed a charge. Can't say the same for eCars and their 'Kilcullen' style layout... as if a Leaf parks in one or the other bay servicing the 150kW unit, it means a lot of cars won't be able to use the CCS plug on that unit depending on what side their port is

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738242#Comment_120738242

Being new to this whole public charger thing, I tried an Applegreen charger locally over the weekend to see what it was like and I have to agree. The cable is very heavy but plenty long to reach just about any location of charge port. The whole experience was quick and easy and you can pay with a debit card (it puts an automatic €30 hold on your account though). Not sure why you would want to use their app as it seems to do the same thing as just rocking up and using your debit card anyway but of course, it will tell you if there are available chargers at the location before you get there.

Prices for charging are pretty high at the moment though and to me, using a fast charger on the road is an emergency thing. At 75c/KWh you really just need to get enough to make it home/end destination.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738242#Comment_120738242

Tbh I'm not sure it's fair to compare the Tesla owners SuC price, since you're effectively paying €40k upfront as an entry fee and Tesla are probably taking a hit on the profits as a result

The non Tesla price is probably more representative of the actual cost of the network, including electricity, maintenance and expansion, plus some profit for Tesla

That usually seems to be 15-20c above the owners price in other countries, so applying the same logic would give between 54c and 63c per kWh

Still better than AG but the gap has narrowed

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738380#Comment_120738380

Not sure why you would want to use their app as it seems to do the same thing as just rocking up and using your debit card

Using their app avoids the €30 block on your card, which I believe takes a few days to be released, so if you use these chargers daily or even multiple times a day, thats a lot of €30 blocks being held on your card...

innrain

If things work perfectly you don't need the app. However, I had 5 attempts to start a charging session at AG which would have resulted in 5 consecutive 30 quid blocks which I think is bad. I've seen comments that Paulstown didn't work on the weekend after was offline on the BH weekend and based on my experience at Coyne Cross with 25kW charging and some other experiences, I can't trust the network yet even though their layout is better than most.

Fingleberries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738525#Comment_120738525

In fairness, it's not necessarily paying €40k upfront as an entry fee, but I can understand where you're coming from with that. I thought that Tesla had said that previously $1,500 from the price of each car would be ringfenced for support and expansion of the Supercharger network. I can't find the source for that at the moment, so it's entirely possible that I imagined that figure but am fairly sure of it -- possibly doubting myself now 🙂.

If true, this would equate to a non-Tesla owner paying the monthly subscription fee to access the SuC network for about 10 years.

If a non-Tesla user was going to use a Supercharger more than twice in a month (like on a European road trip, or for more than 70-odd kWh), then subscribing for the month gets them access to the lower price and financially makes more sense. It is also easy to cancel the sub before the end of the month, unlike some other subs that require 12-months. So, I think including the non-Tesla owner price was fair enough.

That being said, it doesn't matter for trips in Ireland as the Supercharger network is not open for non-Teslas. Yet.

Applegreen, Circle K, even EasyGo and eCars don't have a subscription model (or at least one that significantly reduces the per kWh price for membership).

MarcusP12

Do you need a minimum balance to use if u sign up through the app in the same way easygo and e-cars does? Or is it a case u register, give ur card details and it just takes what you use each time if started through the app? I’ve signed up already to e-cars and easygo so wouldn’t want another min balance account if there’s the option to pay with debit card….

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738525#Comment_120738525

you're effectively paying €40k upfront as an entry fee

You're paying minimum 40k upfront for a tesla and 30k-35k upfront for the lowest price of most other car brands. So really the entry fee is only 5-10k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739517#Comment_120739517

I believe the payment is taken from the card details stored on the app after the charge is finished (by the app) so no pre-auth or topping up needed, a good system by all accounts

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739891#Comment_120739891

Yeah fair point, but the idea remains that Tesla uses car sales to fund network expansion and can charge Tesla owners less as a result

Ionity in theory works in a similar way and has probably been able to maintain their prices for a long time because they're owned by several car manufacturers (meanwhile everyone else has increased prices)

Applegreen don't sell high price items like cars, so while they're hardly poor they're probably not as awash with cash as bigger companies.

So that's why I don't think it's exactly fair to compare the prices AG charge to Tesla

Now having said that, AG are charging a hefty fee and I believe that's probably going to continue until some competing networks come online. Unless Tesla open up or Ecars suddenly figure out how to design a charging hub, the only realistic competition in the near future is probably going to be Ionity and Circle K. And both of them are a good distance behind in terms of rollout

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120741123#Comment_120741123

Fair point, the thing about Ionity is they were always ridiculously expensive so that probably allowed them to keep the same base pricing structure all this time, I'm also led to believe that their charging plans for their own car owners hasn't changed much or at all, so it's much the same structure as Tesla in that regard

You look across our electricity network there is no electricity provider, house or car, who have dropped their prices despite wholesale prices dropping like a stone for the last number of months except Tesla. Now you can argue it's all about hedging etc but I have seen zero proof of such. In fact considering most suppliers had 3 rate increases last year we are long over-due a drop if this hedging excuse is to be believed