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Protest Paddy Jackson playing at the weekend?

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    #602
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭cms88


    JMMCapital wrote: »
    The defendant was not found guilty. What happend to innocent until proven guilty? Sick of hearing these witch-hunt women with nothing better to be doing with there lives go protest, completely pointless I'm fair worried for them, they should just stay at home with their cats.
    #IBelieveHim #RegretDoesNotEqualRape #ToxicFeminism #Scam

    Like everything nowadays the result of anything is only the right one when it suits the mob. The amount of BS that wnt on from women after this was crazy. Saying the there was too many men on the jurey etc


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    #603
    JMMCapital
    Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭JMMCapital


    cms88 wrote: »
    Like everything nowadays the result of anything is only the right one when it suits the mob. The amount of BS that wnt on from women after this was crazy. Saying the there was too many men on the jurey etc

    The judge was a woman herself, they still don't want to believe it. Anything at all to suit there tiny peanut heads.


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    #604
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,385 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    You've concluded that Jackson "never meant to rape" the girl and that he now "wishes he knew about consent beforehand":

    Yes. I said "id imagine" he never meant to rape anyone and "I'd bet" he wishes he knew more about consent as it could have save him and everyone else involved, a lot of hassle and suffering.

    Saying "I'd imagine" and "I'd bet" aren't claims of certainty or knowledge. They're opinions about the likely hood of possible.

    Above all I've said, numerous times, that I wasn't there and even those that were there have different recollections of what happened. So I don't pretend to know what happened on the night. Believe it or not, there's room for uncertainty and if say much more is uncertain than is cert in this case.

    Now, some clowns have actually made claims of certainty.


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    #605
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,385 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    SJW Lover wrote: »
    Yes, you have. You've inferred something beyond a not guilty verdict. Not guilty is not guilty. The presumption of innocence maintained. End of story.

    What have I inferred, exactly?


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    #606
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    "I'd bet" he wishes he knew more about consent as it could have save him and everyone else involved, a lot of hassle and suffering.


    He knows everything he needs to know about consent, he didn't rape anyone. It is the regretful slut who he had consensual sex with that caused all of the hassle and suffering.


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    #607
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,385 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    dickangel wrote: »
    El Duderino once tried to dismiss his friend raping his girlfriend while she was asleep as "confusion around consent." So I'd take anything he says on this topic with several grains of salt.

    She wasn't my girlfriend? Crikey, this story is better when you embellish it. I could tell it the way it actually happened but it wouldn't be as Interesting as the way you tell it.

    You went to the trouble of quoting where I posted about it, so read it and see what I actually said. Cheers.


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    #608
    votecounts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    He knows everything he needs to know about consent, he didn't rape anyone. It is the regretful slut who he had consensual sex with that caused all of the hassle and suffering.
    Just Shocking


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    #609
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    votecounts wrote: »
    Just Shocking


    Why? IMHO, any woman who allows herself to be spit roasted is not classy.


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    #610
    dickangel
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭dickangel


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    She wasn't my girlfriend? Crikey, this story is better when you embellish it. I could tell it the way it actually happened but it wouldn't be as Interesting as the way you tell it.

    You went to the trouble of quoting where I posted about it, so read it and see what I actually said. Cheers.

    What are you on about? The post clearly says "his girlfriend." Your friend's girlfriend. Nice deflection.

    The point is - you've witnessed a lot of sexual assaults in person and didn't intervene and even still associate with the people involved. Why should anyone listen to you bleat about consent?


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    #611
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,385 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    He knows everything he needs to know about consent, he didn't rape anyone. It is the regretful slut who he had consensual sex with that caused all of the hassle and suffering.

    This is the kind of certainty I'm talking about. Declaring what PJ knows, what the "slut" feels and what she consented to. Classic.

    This kind of certainty is ideologically driven. You don't have the information know any of this but it doesn't seem to matter to you.


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    #612
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    This is the kind of certainty I'm talking about. Declaring what PJ knows, what the "slut" feels and what she consented to. Classic.

    This kind of certainty is ideologically driven. You don't have the information know any of this but it doesn't seem to matter to you.


    Anything I am "declaring" is backed up by all of the available evidence. Do you dispute that Jackson understood he had consent? Because the jury believed he did. Do you dispute that the woman acted in a sexually deviant manner? Because eye witness statements clearly show that she did.


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    #613
    JMMCapital
    Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭JMMCapital


    Paddy Jackson is innocent. leave the god dam man alone. Women these days need to accept responsibility once they give there consent you can't simply regret it later. don't have sex otherwise, stay at home with your cats.
    #RegretDoesNotEqualRape


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    #614
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,385 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    dickangel wrote: »
    What are you on about? The post clearly says "his girlfriend." Your friend's girlfriend. Nice deflection.

    The point is - you've witnessed a lot of sexual assaults in person and didn't intervene and even still associate with the people involved. Why should anyone listen to you bleat about consent?

    Oh yes i know the incident you're talking about. Yes that happened. It's not my job to police other people's sex lives. We didnt know what he had don't until he told us after. He maintained that it wasn't possible to rape your girlfriend so he presumed it was fine to have sex with his gf at any time so consent didn't come into it.

    He thought we were joking when we said it is indeed possible to rape your girlfriend. He was actually pretty shocked to find out we weren't joking when he asked his dad who confirmed what we had said. Imagine how awkward that discussion was. Much better to have that kind of discussion as part of general sex and sexual health, and relationships.

    That's the incident you're talking about, right?


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    #615
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,385 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Anything I am "declaring" is backed up by all of the available evidence. Do you dispute that Jackson understood he had consent? Because the jury believed he did. Do you dispute that the woman acted in a sexually deviant manner? Because eye witness statements clearly show that she did.
    I've no idea what PJ and the woman agreed in terms of consent.

    I don't really know what you mean by "sexually deviant manner" so I can't really answer that part.


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    #616
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    They're opinions about the likely hood of possible.

    By saying you bet Paddy Jackson didn't mean to rape anyone, it's quite clear that your conclusion is that he did rape, just that he didn't mean to.

    By saying you bet Paddy Jackson wishes he 'knew more' about consent, it's quite clear that you are suggesting he mistakenly believed he was given consent and therefore you're concluding that the woman never gave it.

    Opinions, yes, but they're still conclusions.


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    #617
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭cms88


    JMMCapital wrote: »
    The judge was a woman herself, they still don't want to believe it. Anything at all to suit there tiny peanut heads.

    It's the same with Chad Evans. When the result didn't go the way they wanted they lost their minds


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    #618
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    I just don't know how anyone, even if they have doubts on the verdict, would think these protests are okay.

    This case is a shining example of why those accused of such crimes should have complete anonymity, as a certain amount of people will just assume guilt even when it's not been proven and don't subscribe to the notion that someone should be considered innocent until proven otherwise.


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    #619
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,385 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    By saying you bet Paddy Jackson didn't mean to rape anyone, it's quite clear that your conclusion is that he did rape, just not that he didn't mean to.

    By saying you bet Paddy Jackson wishes he 'knew more' about consent, it's quite clear that you are suggesting he mistakenly believed he was given consent and therefore you're concluding that the woman never gave it.

    Opinions, yes, but they're still conclusions.

    OK you're misquoting form post to post. I said I imagine he didn't mean to rape anyone and that's all it means - because I'm not certain and I don't have enough info to know. Whether he raped anyone or not is not implied, that's just you're assumption. I don't conclude that he did rape someone. (Wouldn't this have been simpler if you had asked what I think rather than making it up yourself?)

    I do presume PJ thought he had consent (I don't know whether actually had or not) but I really doubt he and the wan had any kind of explicit discussion as simple as "are you on for a threesome with me and my mate?". So there is loads of room for ambiguity and misunderstanding about whether consent was given and received both ways.

    Thats basically how I view the entire thing. A big misunderstanding of what Consent is and whether it was given and received. I never viewed it as rapists or liars. The whole thing would never have been a problem if they'd said something like the simple line above "are you on for a threesome with me and my mate?". Everyone involved would have been much happier if they had had that simple one line discussion and followed the answer.

    And still some people mock the idea of discussing consent.


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    #620
    JMMCapital
    Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭JMMCapital


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    OK you're misquoting form post to post. I said I imagine he didn't mean to rape anyone and that's all it means - because I'm not certain and I don't have enough info to know. Whether he raped anyone or not is not implied, that's just you're assumption. I don't conclude that he did rape someone. (Wouldn't this have been simpler if you had asked what I think rather than making it up yourself?)

    I do presume PJ thought he had consent (I don't know whether actually had or not) but I really doubt he and the wan had any kind of explicit discussion as simple as "are you on for a threesome with me and my mate?". So there is loads of room for ambiguity and misunderstanding about whether consent was given and received both ways.

    Thats basically how I view the entire thing. A big misunderstanding of what Consent is and whether it was given and received. I never viewed it as rapists or liars. The whole thing would never have been a problem if they'd said something like the simple line above "are you on for a threesome with me and my mate?". Everyone involved would have been much happier if they had had that simple one line discussion and followed the answer.

    And still some people mock the idea of discussing consent.


    Enough with the waffle


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    #621
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    male-feminists.jpg


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    #622
    Achebe
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭Achebe


    I must have travelled back to 2010 if I am seeing that meme format.


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    #623
    JMMCapital
    Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭JMMCapital


    #RegretDoesNotEqualRape


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    #624
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Everyone involved would have been much happier if they had had that simple one line discussion and followed the answer.

    We live in the real world though and sex is never going to be so formal, that's the reality of the situation and no amount of trying to get people to have such conversations before they engage in sex will ever make them commonplace.
    And still some people mock the idea of discussing consent.

    Because it's never proposed for the right reasons by the right people. It tends to be proposed by those with an agenda, who just want to control how men and women interact. Their motives are not pure.

    Besides, a female witness said that Dara looked as if she was consenting with what went on. Why is her word not good enough?


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    #625
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    The whole thing would never have been a problem if they'd said something like the simple line above "are you on for a threesome with me and my mate?".


    Someone should totally make official consent forms. Image the ritual of signing one before the act begins :pac:


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    #626
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    votecounts wrote: »
    Just Shocking

    Were you as shocked when the complainant called all the girls at the house sluts?

    Her private messages demeaning women just doesn't seem to draw the same ire from the sisters.


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    #627
    JMMCapital
    Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭JMMCapital


    tipptom wrote: »
    Were you as shocked when the complainant called all the girls at the house sluts?

    Her private messages demeaning women just doesn't seem to draw the same ire from the sisters.

    Unfortunately this kind of stuff happens quite often in "lads" group chats, believe it or not. I'm sure women could say the same things about men, they can be quite nasty...


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    #628
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    JMMCapital wrote: »
    Unfortunately this kind of stuff happens quite often in "lads" group chats, believe it or not. I'm sure women could say the same things about men, they can be quite nasty...


    I don't get the furore about the Whatsapp messages. I thought women were as strong as men? Why were women so appalled by the messages? I personally couldn't care less what people said in their private messages.


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    #629
    dickangel
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭dickangel


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Oh yes i know the incident you're talking about. Yes that happened. It's not my job to police other people's sex lives. We didnt know what he had don't until he told us after. He maintained that it wasn't possible to rape your girlfriend so he presumed it was fine to have sex with his gf at any time so consent didn't come into it.

    He thought we were joking when we said it is indeed possible to rape your girlfriend. He was actually pretty shocked to find out we weren't joking when he asked his dad who confirmed what we had said. Imagine how awkward that discussion was. Much better to have that kind of discussion as part of general sex and sexual health, and relationships.

    That's the incident you're talking about, right?

    There was also the story you told where you witnessed guys tagging in and out on a drunk girl without her knowing the person she was sleeping with was changing. It wasn't your job to police people's sex lives then either. Better to lecture others about consent on the Internet though, much easier that actually intervening in a crime.


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    #630
    JMMCapital
    Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭JMMCapital


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    I don't get the furore about the Whatsapp messages. I thought women were as strong as men? Why were women so appalled by the messages? I personally couldn't care less what people said in their private messages.

    Exactly


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    #631
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,385 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    JMMCapital wrote: »
    Enough with the waffle

    LOL. Has nuance got no place in the discussion? Should I pick a neat side (either he's a rapist or she's a liar) and pretend I'm certain about it?

    I'll probably just stick to what I actually know and be honest about what I don't know, and work from there -waffle, as you call it.


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