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De-platforming fascists works

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    #362
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,467 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    nullzero wrote: »
    Fascism is not an issue in the modern world.

    Any right wing political groups are now labeled as fascist by people who don't properly understand what fascism is.

    There are fascists in the world but they are in tiny groups who have no hope of gaining power.

    i would very strongly disagree with you on that. I suppose you are dismissing the rise of far right populism as not in any way fascist?


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    #363
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,467 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    WB Yokes wrote: »
    Ok so its a waste of time talking to a fascist in your view. Fine. So what would your approach be?

    absolutely it is a waste of time. You confirm this yourself by not being able to propose a basis for any discussion.


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    #364
    WB Yokes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 370 ✭✭WB Yokes


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    absolutely it is a waste of time. You confirm this yourself by not being able to propose a basis for any discussion.

    I engaged you in discussion but you seem unwilling to answer a simple question that was asked of you.

    What are you personally doing to combat the rise or the far right, or a more relevant question may be, what would you have other people do to combat the far right and fascism?


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    #365
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,467 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    WB Yokes wrote: »
    I engaged you in discussion but you seem unwilling to answer a simple question that was asked of you.

    What are you personally doing to combat the rise or the far right, or a more relevant question may be, what would you have other people do to combat the far right and fascism?

    well you say you engaged in discussion but i asked you a very straightforward question and you didnt answer it.


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    #366
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Didnt read any of that. Though I can already tell its waffle and mental gymnastics.

    There is no leeway with fascism. If it holds the status quo it leads to mass killings every single time.

    Fascists Are fair game to be murdered and humiliated. if you feel personally attacked by this statement then thats on you. Fascism is an indefensible position and its defeat in real life every single time is proof of that

    Yikes!!


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    #367
    WB Yokes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 370 ✭✭WB Yokes


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    well you say you engaged in discussion but i asked you a very straightforward question and you didnt answer it.

    No i believe i asked you a question first which you ignored.


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    #368
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,098 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i would very strongly disagree with you on that. I suppose you are dismissing the rise of far right populism as not in any way fascist?

    The notion that a totalitarian government could be formed in a modern democracy in this day and age is a pie in the sky idea.

    Glazers Out!



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    #369
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    So we have people advocating for the murder of people they consider to be fascists, yet won't/can't define exactly what a fascist is?

    Lunatics. Potentially dangerous lunatics.


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    #370
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    But the problem here is sk8r - I agree with you if you are actually talking about REAL NAZIS, the issue I have is with WHO you consider a nazi ? - and many on the left it seems nowadays ...

    Donald Trump ?

    Douglas Murray (as mentioned)

    Sam Harris ?
    Jordan Peterson ?

    Yes of course im talking about real actual Nazis. I dont agree with Donald Trump, Salvini, Douglas Murray or Sam Harris but they do not deserve to be beaten to death.

    Note that i never said ANY metric in measuring what a nazi is, yet everyones jumping on the fact that I said Nazis should be cut down. Why do certain people feel personally attacked when I say something that is unanimously agreed upon (The entire planet literally teamed up one way or another to kill Nazis back in the 40s)

    The better question here is, why do YOU (certain people in this thread) feel personally attacked when someone says fascists (authoritarian mass murderers) should be cut down?


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    #371
    WB Yokes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 370 ✭✭WB Yokes


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So we have people advocating for the murder of people they consider to be fascists, yet won't/can't define exactly what a fascist is?

    Lunatics. Potentially dangerous lunatics.

    Imagine being that sensitive that you call on people to be murdered cause they dislike some people. Thank god these idiots are confined to the internet for the most part.


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    #372
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Great article on the absolute absurd views of the left today with regards to fascism.

    The "anti-fascist" left were the real fascists

    It is fashionable among the radical left to demonize the growing number of elected conservative governments in the Western world as the rise of the extreme or alt-right. This is most pronounced in the anti-fascist (antifa) movement, particularly on university campuses. However, the anti-fascist movement has a sophomoric misunderstanding of fascism and its location on the political spectrum. More disturbing, this lack of understanding extends to its own social media and even physical tactics that mimic the mob psychology, street rage and bullying that are hallmarks of the fascism they denounce.

    Fascism is best thought of as a nationalistic version of socialism, embodied in Hitler’s National Socialist party, which was shortened to the Nazis. Fascist governments like those of Hitler and Italy’s Benito Mussolini (and, to some degree, Spain’s Francisco Franco) in mid-20th century Europe believed in totalitarian control of the economy and oppressive state curtailment of individual liberty. Those are the antitheses of conservative principles. Fascism subsumes all ideology to the goals of the state and the need for state surveillance. The extreme version of conservatism isn’t fascism, as the left wants us to think. It’s libertarianism.

    Instead of left versus right or liberal versus conservative, a better schema is to locate movements on a spectrum that runs from tyranny to liberty. Fascism embodies many elements of the socialist’s state control of society. For libertarian icon Friedrich Hayek, Hitler’s National Socialism “was indeed socialist in concept and execution,” while H. Pierre Secher, biographer of one of Austria’s leading socialists, Bruno Kreisky, wrote of the striking similarities between the leftists and the fascists in that country: “Ideologically, the distinction between the ‘Sozis’ (Socialists) and Commies on the one hand and Nazis on the other, was probably only the internationalism of the Marxists and the nationalism of the Nazis. In every other respect they agreed on the evils of capitalism.” The connection of Jews with capitalism helped fuel the anti-Semitism of the Nazis.

    Mussolini’s claim that in a fascist regime there was to be “everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state” is of course the totalitarian opposite of the libertarian ideal. Mussolini was long involved with the socialist movement in Italy, breaking with it because of personal ambition and because his socialist brethren would not support Italy’s entry into the First World War. Once in power, he inaugurated a major extension of welfare spending and public works projects. Mussolini’s insistence that his fascist deputies take seats on the far right of the Italian Constituent Assembly may have led some observers to wrongly conclude that fascism was right wing.

    Students have been drawn to the appeal of totalitarian certitude long before political correctness and the antifa movements arrived on campus. When the conservative sociologist Peter Berger, whose family fled Austria from the Nazis, found himself in the midst of a violent, left-wing anti-war demonstration in the 1960s, he said it reminded him “of the stormtroopers that marched through my childhood,” with student protestors adopting from fascists “their anti-intellectualism, their anger, their street theater, their glorification of youth, or their mysticism.” There was also their “mob psychology” and “the militant anti-reason impervious to argument.” These characteristics are all amply evident in today’s campus protests against a fascism they hotly denounce but whose tactics they generously employ.

    Off campus, the triumph of religious appeal over reasoned argument today is found in the radical environmental movement, whose early roots were in German fascism. The historian Anna Bramwell, while making the common mistake of conflating conservatism and fascism, nevertheless wrote that “Greenness was seen as an incipiently sinister conservative or even Fascist idea in German thought” going back to Hitler’s support of renewable energy to help reduce Germany’s dependence on oil, in short supply through much of the war. The anti-fossil-fuel movement uses the fascist’s appeal to emotion over reason, demonizing all who dare question it as “climate change deniers.”

    Today the rise of extremism is more pronounced and frightening on the left than the right. The demonization of the right as fascism, that therefore forfeits its place to be heard in the public square, employs the strategy developed by the Marxist scholar Herbert Marcuse. One of the progenitors of the so-called New Left in the 1950s, Marcuse maintained that certain views on the right had to be silenced because this freedom of expression was “serving the cause of oppression.” In this line of thought, censorship serves the cause of freedom because intolerance against the right, while indulging extremism from the left, somehow levels the playing field for democratic debate. That absurd notion is at last managing to take hold in many academic and media circles today.


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    #373
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    The extension of the term "fascist" by the far-left to attack anyone whom they disagree with seems curious but actually has an interesting history, that is instructive.

    The original Antifa was an affiliate of the German Communist Party (KPD) in the early 30s. In line with Stalin's policy the KPD viewed Social Democrats and the moderate left in general as "social fascists", a more serious threat than actual fascists. Antifa was the direct action organisation used to attack and terrorise social democrats while generally ignoring the Nazis and sometimes working with them. For instance in Prussia in 1931 the KPD referred to the Nazis as "working people's comrades" while cooperating with them in an abortive attempt to bring down the state government. The rationale was that the Nazis would help bring down the Bourgeoise order, after which the KPD would bring down the Nazis. Hence the KPD slogan "After Hitler, our turn!".

    Of course in reality Antifa and the KPD undermined the popular resistence to the Nazis and opened the door to Hitler seizing power in 1933, after which he suppressed them with great brutality. In essence these thugs bear considerable responsibility for helping everything from WW2 to the Holocaust to happen.

    While the current Antifa is/are different organizations the method and outlooks are similar, including their belief in physical violence against anyone they disagree with under very spurious definition as "fascists". Worth remembering next time any of us are celebrating "de-platforming fascists".


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    #374
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Yes of course im talking about real actual Nazis. I dont agree with Donald Trump, Salvini, Douglas Murray or Sam Harris but they do not deserve to be beaten to death.

    Note that i never said ANY metric in measuring what a nazi is, yet everyones jumping on the fact that I said Nazis should be cut down. Why do certain people feel personally attacked when I say something that is unanimously agreed upon (The entire planet literally teamed up one way or another to kill Nazis back in the 40s)

    The better question here is, why do YOU (certain people in this thread) feel personally attacked when someone says fascists (authoritarian mass murderers) should be cut down?

    Fascists and Nazis are not the same. Two separate ideologies.

    Would you be happy if Nick Griffin had his throat slit, or was beaten to death tomorrow?


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    #375
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Great article on the absolute absurd views of the left today with regards to fascism.

    Pure mental gymnastics. Sorry mate but you literally cant defend being a Nazi. The reality is, if you’re a Nazi (kill lesser races, jews, blacks, invade and conquer europe etc) nobody is going to give you sympathy. Your existence is a threat to the world, and if you get your way people will die.

    There is just no justifiable way to call yourself a Nazi.


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    #376
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    I dont agree with Donald Trump, Salvini, Douglas Murray or Sam Harris but they do not deserve to be beaten to death.

    Well that's noble of you.
    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Note that i never said ANY metric in measuring what a nazi is, yet everyones jumping on the fact that I said Nazis should be cut down. Why do certain people feel personally attacked when I say something that is unanimously agreed upon (The entire planet literally teamed up one way or another to kill Nazis back in the 40s)

    That's the problem. You haven't given any metrics.
    sk8erboii wrote: »
    The better question here is, why do YOU (certain people in this thread) feel personally attacked when someone says fascists (authoritarian mass murderers) should be cut down?

    Because the left have a propensity to label anyone that they disagree with as Nazis/fascists and seeing people advocate for murder of all all Nazis/fascists (without explaining in full what they deem to be fascist) is worrying to anyone who doesn't agree with Antifa or the intolerant left.


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    #377
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    The extension of the term "fascist" by the far-left to attack anyone whom they disagree with seems curious but actually has an interesting history, that is instructive.

    The original Antifa was an affiliate of the German Communist Party (KPD) in the early 30s. In line with Stalin's policy the KPD viewed Social Democrats and the moderate left in general as "social fascists", a more serious threat than actual fascists. Antifa was the direct action organisation used to attack and terrorise social democrats while generally ignoring the Nazis and sometimes working with them. For instance in Prussia in 1931 the KPD referred to the Nazis as "working people's comrades" while cooperating with them in an abortive attempt to bring down the state government. The rationale was that the Nazis would help bring down the Bourgeoise order, after which the KPD would bring down the Nazis. Hence the KPD slogan "After Hitler, our turn!".

    Of course in reality Antifa and the KPD undermined the popular resistence to the Nazis and opened the door to Hitler seizing power in 1933, after which he suppressed them with great brutality. In essence these thugs bear considerable responsibility for helping everything from WW2 to the Holocaust to happen.

    While the current Antifa is/are different organizations the method and outlooks are similar, including their belief in physical violence against anyone they disagree with under very spurious definition as "fascists". Worth remembering next time any of us are celebrating "de-platforming fascists".

    Mental gymnastics. Everybody hates Nazis because they are openly hostile to everyone. Dont complicate it more than that.


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    #378
    Tasfasdf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Tasfasdf


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Mental gymnastics. Everybody hates Nazis because they are openly hostile to everyone. Dont complicate it more than that.

    From what year are you posting from?


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    #379
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,098 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Mental gymnastics. Everybody hates Nazis because they are openly hostile to everyone. Dont complicate it more than that.

    This idea of "mental gymnastics" you keep repeating is beginning to grate.

    How should your cognitive processes be described? Mental inertia?

    Glazers Out!



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    #380
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Fascists Are fair game to be murdered and humiliated...
    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Note that i never said ANY metric in measuring what a nazi is...


    giphy.gif
    sk8erboii wrote: »
    There is just no justifiable way to call yourself a Nazi.

    Who the hell is calling themselves a Nazi?


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    #381
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So we have people advocating for the murder of people they consider to be fascists, yet won't/can't define exactly what a fascist is?

    Lunatics. Potentially dangerous lunatics.

    Today it seems there's no universally agreed upon definition of Facism, for them a Fascist is essentially whoever they decide is a Fascist. An ever shifting definition which serves to allow them to label anyone they don't like.
    Now as we see, on these very boards some are stating that perpetrating violence and even Murder is acceptable if the victim is a Fascist.

    Extremely dangerous rhetoric.


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    #382
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Well that's noble of you.



    That's the problem. You haven't given any metrics.



    Because the left have a propensity to label anyone that they disagree with as Nazis/fascists and seeing people advocate for murder of all all Nazis/fascists (without explaining in full what they deem to be fascist) is worrying to anyone who doesn't agree with Antifa or the intolerant left.

    Funny how the left has become the boogieman. Like the red menace of the 60s.

    Mate you realize every major government in the world is run by conservatives? No joke, look at the top economic powers in the world. From China to the US the conservatives are in power. There is no left boogieman thats pulling the strings. There are a lot of Anglo Saxon Corporate right wing types in the US profiting from Defense contracts though. You might want to focus on the real schemes rather than twitter horseplay from the ‘left’


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    #383
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    nullzero wrote: »
    This idea of "mental gymnastics" you keep repeating is beginning to grate.

    How should your cognitive processes be described? Mental inertia?

    Nah mate. Nazis and fascists like to use mental gymnastics to call anyone who attacks them as the ‘real’ Nazis.

    Imagine being in a room full of World War 2 veterans from D-Day and calling them Nazis For killing Nazis. Lol its all mental gymnastics to obfuscate and paint themselves as victims


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    #384
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Great article on the absolute absurd views of the left today with regards to fascism.

    That's a big pile of ****, conservative yank propaganda and rewriting of history through association.


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    #385
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    sk8erboii wrote: »

    Fascists Are fair game to be murdered and humiliated.

    If you truly believe this statement then you are also an extremist yourself.

    Advocating extra-judicial killings against a certain group will not solve the underlying issue that cause that extreme ideology in the first place.


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    #386
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Nah mate. Nazis and fascists like to use mental gymnastics to call anyone who attacks them as the ‘real’ Nazis.

    Imagine being in a room full of World War 2 veterans from D-Day and calling them Nazis For killing Nazis. Lol its all mental gymnastics to obfuscate and paint themselves as victims

    So are you accusing of those responding to you of being Nazis and fascists, because you've accused them of engaging in mental gymnastics?

    Also it's highly doubtful that the average German soldier were full on Nazis. Fighting for their country more like.


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    #387
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    markodaly wrote: »
    If you truly believe this statement then you are also an extremist yourself.

    Advocating extra-judicial killings against a certain group will not solve the underlying issue that cause that extreme ideology in the first place.

    Both can be done. Sorry but anyone who proudly calls themself a Nazi becomes an enemy to the entire world. You cant eat your cake and have it too.


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    #388
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    On the OP itself, it is curious to what constitutes 'work'.

    Milo is a lot of things, but a Nazi or a Fascist is not one of them.


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    #389
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    So are you accusing of those responding to you of being Nazis and fascists, because you've accused them of engaging in mental gymnastics?

    Also it's highly doubtful that the average German soldier were full on Nazis. Fighting for their country more like.
    No idea what youre talking about mate, but stay on topic.


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    #390
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,098 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Nah mate. Nazis and fascists like to use mental gymnastics to call anyone who attacks them as the ‘real’ Nazis.

    Imagine being in a room full of World War 2 veterans from D-Day and calling them Nazis For killing Nazis. Lol its all mental gymnastics to obfuscate and paint themselves as victims

    I'm trying to imagine a post by you that actually makes sense. I'm struggling with it if I'm honest.

    Glazers Out!



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    #391
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    No idea what youre talking about mate, but stay on topic.

    Stop backseat modding. I am on topic. Reread the post you wrote that I responded to, and my reply. It's not hard to understand what I'm asking.


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