De-platforming fascists works

xckjoo

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Have you seen the amount of purgery convictions in this country. Practically 0. People are free to lie to the Guards and Courts about you without fear of conviction.

So we have complete freedom of speech in this country? Nice one. You'd be happy enough with people spreading lies about you so?

Time

super_furry wrote: »

Terms of service have no political alignment.

Those overseeing their implementation do though

James Brown

Calhoun wrote: »

Agreed I would have thought people arguing against societal group thing and forced social conformity would actually be something embraced by those who spoke out against the church.

All we have done is replace the social norms at the time and in some cases we are just leaving the door open for extremists to hijack .

Can you elaborate?
The people who spoke out against the church are doing what now exactly? It's forced decency and we hear grumbles from the conservatives. As I think Chris Rock said, '‘When You’re Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression’'.
All I'm seeing, (and if you look at the threads on boards) is a lot of people fearful of change. There's more hitting out at perceived oppression than actual oppression. You've Trump, Johnson and vacuous Varadkar, yet the liberal left are ruling the roost because of a few twitter comments? Give over.

Who in PBP or the #metoo dream't up the blasphemy law?

Outlaw Pete

Matt Barrett wrote: »

...because they make him money.

If money was his motivation then why isn't he even taking a salary?

It's because of his hate speech on minorities and actions against minorities and specific countries based on religion...

You're just pushing a false narrative and it's disgusting. What we are seeing today is purely propaganda from the left and the mainstream media. They'd have us all believe that Trump just dog whistles to white supremacists all day long and sleeps in KKK pajamas. You all quote him out of context (in the case of Charlottesville) or exaggerate comments he has made about specific immigrants (like MS-13 and certain other illegals) and repeat it over and over again, hoping it'll stick, and with some I guess it will, but that's all you have after three years of analyzing every single thing he has done 24-7. Sorry, but nothing I have seen from this president is suggestive of him being a racist.

Doesn't mean you don't work to keep black people down when the opportunity arises.

What are you on about? How does Trump keep black people down whenever the opportunity arises? Where are you getting this crap from? Stop believing everything you read on partisan forums and from certain sections of the media. Trump has passed legislation that has helped more black people than any other race and done many other things too which he certainly could have avoided doing had he wanted to, as is your suggestion.

Here are some clips with some specific examples, starting with two to show some of the positive effects of the First Step Act have had on black Americans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB7cSE_ieys

He's commuted Alice Johnson's sentence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp8lIma_DVs

Hosted a Black History day at the White House:

And also a Young Black Leadership Summit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7NagM_gerw

Had all the leaders of Historically Black Colleges in the Oval Office the day he signed an executive order to promote excellence and innovation at these colleges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErxbgPxgkb0

Even the first national monument Trump designated honoured black soldiers of the Civil War.

So give the racist Trump narrative a rest. It's baloney and in fact is resulting in more and more black people saying they intend to vote for him in 2020.

Liberals of course will say Trump is pandering to blacks. No, he's not. Telling blacks you bring hot sauce everywhere you go though and listen to Tupac in the mid 80's, now that's pandering to black people.

gmisk

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

What are you on about? How does he he keep black people down when the opportunity arises? Where are you getting this crap from? Stop believing everything you read on partisan forums and from certain sections of the media.

Just to look at one part of your info dump.
I would recommend the below article
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/
It is an oral history of trumps racism with a tonne of examples.

Its excellent but long - you could just read the parts in italics though

James Brown

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

If money is his motivation then why isn't he even taking a salary?



You're just pushing a false narrative and it's disgusting. What we are seeing today is purely propaganda from the left and the mainstream media...

Before Trump came in it was only fringe elements on the left and right who railed against 'mainstream media'. Of course there's some bias with different outlets but its acknowledged and accepted.
You've a POTUS telling you not to believe the news. A lying POTUS. These are facts. Truth, not 'alternative truths'.
There is no false narrative about facts. He cherry picked countries to ban people coming from, based on religion, when he does deals with similar countries.
He will be making an absolute fortune from the back room deals during his tenure. Now if he was telling the truth when he said he'd furnish his tax returns we'd have a clearer picture, but that's another lie. He said US congress people hated Jews and America. He's a brat, a dangerous brat. He's going through staff like it's going out of style. He sat in a prayer group with evangelists are you saying that shows he's a religious man?
The mainstream media are reporting on a lying racist, sexist liar.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Can you elaborate?
The people who spoke out against the church are doing what now exactly? It's forced decency and we hear grumbles from the conservatives. As I think Chris Rock said, '‘When You’re Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression’'.
All I'm seeing, (and if you look at the threads on boards) is a lot of people fearful of change. There's more hitting out at perceived oppression than actual oppression. You've Trump, Johnson and vacuous Varadkar, yet the liberal left are ruling the roost because of a few twitter comments? Give over.

Who in PBP or the #metoo dream't up the blasphemy law?

What privilege did Irish people have historically?

Now Americans of all colour have privileges, including convincing everybody that the social structure of the US applies everywhere and killing millions without fear of retribution.

Calhoun

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Can you elaborate?
The people who spoke out against the church are doing what now exactly? It's forced decency and we hear grumbles from the conservatives. As I think Chris Rock said, '‘When You’re Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression’'.
All I'm seeing, (and if you look at the threads on boards) is a lot of people fearful of change. There's more hitting out at perceived oppression than actual oppression. You've Trump, Johnson and vacuous Varadkar, yet the liberal left are ruling the roost because of a few twitter comments? Give over.

Who in PBP or the #metoo dream't up the blasphemy law?

Your right comrade we must force decency on everyone, including those we disagree with.

Boards also has allot of woke self righteous and individuals who smugly look down on anyone with a different opinion. The funny thing is they have consumed so much of their own bull**** they basically push inequality and wrap it up as being decent.

Then try and silence others because their truth is the more righteous.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Before Trump came in it was only fringe elements on the left and right who railed against 'mainstream media'. Of course there's some bias with different outlets but its acknowledged and accepted.

It used to be a pretty mainstream opinion on the sane left that the media, particularly in the US, represented corporate or establishment interests. How else can you explain the support of most of population of the US for wars in distant lands. It’s not Fox News alone as cable reaches about 1-2% of the population.

You've a POTUS telling you not to believe the news. A lying POTUS. These are facts. Truth, not 'alternative truths'.
There is no false narrative about facts. He cherry picked countries to ban people coming from, based on religion, when he does deals with similar countries.
He will be making an absolute fortune from the back room deals during his tenure. Now if he was telling the truth when he said he'd furnish his tax returns we'd have a clearer picture, but that's another lie. He said US congress people hated Jews and America. He's a brat, a dangerous brat. He's going through staff like it's going out of style. He sat in a prayer group with evangelists are you saying that shows he's a religious man?
The mainstream media are reporting on a lying racist, sexist liar.

Very little of this affects you. Invasions of Libya and Syria do. Yemen was also on Obamas watch. And despite the anti Iran rhetoric Trump hasn’t done much there, but it may yet happen.

James Brown

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

What privilege did Irish people have historically?

Now Americans of all colour have privileges, including convincing everybody that the social structure of the US applies everywhere and killing millions without fear of retribution.

It's not so simple.
For example, if you don't care or really believe there's a housing crisis because you're not effected, that's a privileged attitude.
If you never encountered being treated like a second class citizen and don't see that kind of thing as a problem, when it is for others in society, that's a privileged attitude. So when you see moves to change things you don't think need changing, like attitudes, or you see rights being given to minorities, rights you already have, that's privileged. Getting carded for ID every time you walk down the street or constantly stopped by cops while driving isn't a problem for whites as much as it is for blacks for example. Most of us wouldn't think it's an issue because it's not happening to us.

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It used to be a pretty mainstream opinion on the sane left that the media, particularly in the US, represented corporate or establishment interests. How else can you explain the support of most of population of the US for wars in distant lands. It’s not Fox News alone as cable reaches about 1-2% of the population.



Very little of this affects you. Invasions of Libya and Syria do. Yemen was also on Obamas watch. And despite the anti Iran rhetoric Trump hasn’t done much there, but it may yet happen.

The US is right wing, the liberals are right wing IMO.

It's called empathy. And much of what happens with the US effects us all the world over.

I couldn't give 2 f***s what Obama did or didn't do and it's completely irrelevant outside of whataboutery.

Calhoun

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

What privilege did Irish people have historically?

Now Americans of all colour have privileges, including convincing everybody that the social structure of the US applies everywhere and killing millions without fear of retribution.

You are white apparently that means privilege, the good comrade will enlighten you by showing you the hierarchy of victimhood and why your issues don't matter compared to minorities.

Its how we can easily coerce and control because we must only listen to the non-privileged.

James Brown

Calhoun wrote: »

Your right comrade we must force decency on everyone, including those we disagree with.

Boards also has allot of woke self righteous and individuals who smugly look down on anyone with a different opinion. The funny thing is they have consumed so much of their own bull**** they basically push inequality and wrap it up as being decent.

Then try and silence others because their truth is the more righteous.

Yes, decency and law should be forced on everyone. You've heard of prisons right? Break societies laws, get locked up. It's not a new concept chief.

Look at the threads, there's many anti alleged too liberal or whatever threads and I don't think any actually saying anything like the opposite.

That's scary Trumpesque talk.

James Brown

Calhoun wrote: »

You are white apparently that means privilege, the good comrade will enlighten you by showing you the hierarchy of victimhood and why your issues don't matter compared to minorities.

Its how we can easily coerce and control because we must only listen to the non-privileged.

Nope, read again. Most of my examples have nothing to do with colour.


You completely didn't understand a word obviously.

Calhoun

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Yes, decency and law should be forced on everyone. You've heard of prisons right? Break societies laws, get locked up. It's not a new concept chief.

Look at the threads, there's many anti alleged too liberal or whatever threads and I don't think any actually saying anything like the opposite.

That's scary Trumpesque talk.

Can you define this decency, maybe into a manifesto of some sort?

How should we rule this new Ireland, should we introduce the Gulag's or off to the ovens with them?

I see a mix in the threads people who go to far one side and the other, its the nature of a discussion forum. You are basically engaging in the same kind of whataboutery by dismissing all you have read as trumpisms.

Thank god though most board members when you get into serious conversation with them don't just start spitting out the crap they see from America all day everyday.

Calhoun

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Nope, read again. Most of my examples have nothing to do with colour.


You completely didn't understand a word obviously.

I wasn't talking to you comrade, i was talking to the privileged fellow with white skin.

Morgans

Sonics2k wrote: »

Isn't James O'Keefe the guy that released the sting "interview" with a Google Exec which turned out to be -massively- edited, altered and taken out of context to match a total lie Project Veritas were trying to spread. They were also caught in a dozen other lies about other people.

Now, I'm not saying liberal media is great, but for someone who goes on about the fake news and dishonest media, you do seem to enjoy posting links to other liars.

Prager U and Project Veritas. As Jesse Lee Petersen would say 'amazin'.

The point about grifting is that Milo's free speech isn't being harmed. His ability to make money from his grift is. His fans believe that the whole world should stop for Milo (and others) announcements when he demands attention. He was dropped by his moneymen backers, and without it his access was shut down, and is back to where he belongs.

Nothing stopping him doing up a blog/wordpress/gab/telegram account. As he notes himself some are full of the worst forms of racists making his brand toxic. If you want to follow what he says, nothing stopping you. Just that his fanboys have no way of stretching their influence. Its utterly pointless debating them. Complaining about liberal media and posting PragerU videos is about as indicative as it comes. Pointless. Just concentrate on ensuring there are a greater number of non-arseholes in the world.

James Brown

Calhoun wrote: »

Can you define this decency, maybe into a manifesto of some sort?

How should we rule this new Ireland, should we introduce the Gulag's or off to the ovens with them?

I see a mix in the threads people who go to far one side and the other, its the nature of a discussion forum. You are basically engaging in the same kind of whataboutery by dismissing all you have read as trumpisms.

Thank god though most board members when you get into serious conversation with them don't just start spitting out the crap they see from America all day everyday.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland

Look if you're just going to post sh*te no matter what I say, have at it

Calhoun

Matt Barrett wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland

Look if you're just going to post sh*te no matter what I say, have at it

I will indeed i was just responding in kind to what you were posting. You don't want to give an inch but expect others to be respectful and listen in return.

Its why politics especially in the states is so messed up because its not even about the politics anymore but galvanized sides where people argue the person and not the point.

Calhoun

Morgans wrote: »

Prager U and Project Veritas. As Jesse Lee Petersen would say 'amazin'.

The point about grifting is that Milo's free speech isn't being harmed. His ability to make money from his grift is. His fans believe that the whole world should stop for Milo (and others) announcements when he demands attention. He was dropped by his moneymen backers, and without it his access was shut down, and is back to where he belongs.

Nothing stopping him doing up a blog/wordpress/gab/telegram account. As he notes himself some are full of the worst forms of racists making his brand toxic. If you want to follow what he says, nothing stopping you. Just that his fanboys have no way of stretching their influence. Its utterly pointless debating them. Complaining about liberal media and posting PragerU videos is about as indicative as it comes. Pointless. Just concentrate on ensuring there are a greater number of non-arseholes in the world.

The main problem i have with deplatforming and to a lesser extent the linked cancellation culture is the impact it can have on people and also how manipulated the likes of the media can be by certain interest groups.

Its not just as simple as creating a blog ect, especially when it could be some unfounded remarks that lead to your world being turned upside down.

A game developer from Canada committed suicide about a week ago because he was cancelled on the words of an ex who's accusations look increasingly likely to have been false because the person in question wanted some publicity.

We are running a fairly dangerous game at the moment where the mob rules.

Morgans

Calhoun wrote: »

The main problem i have with deplatforming and to a lesser extent the linked cancellation culture is the impact it can have on people and also how manipulated the likes of the media can be by certain interest groups.

Its not just as simple as creating a blog ect, especially when it could be some unfounded remarks that lead to your world being turned upside down.

A game developer from Canada committed suicide about a week ago because he was cancelled on the words of an ex who's accusations look increasingly likely to have been false because the person in question wanted some publicity.

We are running a fairly dangerous game at the moment where the mob rules.

I've learned to be very skeptical of these exceptions that prove the rule like mentioned above. Im not saying that it can't happen - but in general those anecdotes are used by people who have a vested interest in highlighting them. Pounced on by the right channels and pumped through the social media landscape by the grifter army as if its the norm.

This is a good example of the phenomenon - if you are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvjHn6QEgh4&

Long story short re deplatforming, grifters with no interest in debating in good faith in order to get to a form of common understanding and progress from there. They use 'free speech' argument to get their opinions a greater voice, avoid anyone with brains who can pick apart their nonsense, and run scared and play the victim when called out. Some people fall for it.

Calhoun

Thank you for sharing I'll give it a look. Agree with what your saying, I have the baby in my arms will watch and come back later .

Outlaw Pete

gmisk wrote: »

I would recommend the below article
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/
It is an oral history of trumps racism with a tonne of examples.

I read that article before but happy enough to go through all the allegations of racism again and why I don't think they hold any water:


1. U]Trump Management Company accusations[/U Well this one is utter rubbish and recommend this very thorough and long article on it.

2. U]Central Park Five[/U Trump clearly doesn't feel the five warrant an apology for anything that he that he said at the time of the crime and nor over the years since either and that's most likely because of the views that have been expressed by one of the prosecutors at the time, Linda Fairstein. Indeed he has cited her a few times whenever journalists have brought up the case to him. Not suggesting she has been right in what she has said, and she sure seems to get a lot of condemnation for her views that the boys were guilty of other crimes that night and that in her view they should not have been compensated, and perhaps that condemnation is more than deserved too. More than enough to say it is. However, that's all besides the point, as right or wrong, I just don't see how anything he has said since, or even at the time, is indicative of him being a racist. If the West Memphis Three has been a case that had occured in the New York or New Jersey, you can be damn sure Trump would have been saying he hated them for killing three little boys and felt they should get the death penalty too. Personally I think anyone who believes in the death penalty given the amount of miscarriages of justice is an idiot.

3. [“They Don’t Look Like Indians to Me”] Laughable that this would be cited as being racist. I remember this from many years back. This was Trump going up against the mob. He was adamant (and he should know given he ran many casinos) that the mob were exploiting the Native American gaming tax breaks and so that is why he made the remark. It was simply a factual statement. Perhaps he should have said 'They all look more Italian to me'. Definitely would have woke up with a horse's head in his bed had he went that far though.

4. U]The Apprentice - Black vs White idea[/U Eh, stupid ideas of how to jump the shark =/= racism.

5. U]Birthergate[/U One of the biggest lies by liberals, as the whole birther stuff was started by the Hillary Clinton campaign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omok9hltIsc

6. ["[U]White Supremacists are fine people[/U]"] lol. Did I say the last one was the biggest lie? I meant this one.

Never said that and in fact he said the exact opposite:

You had some very bad people in that group but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue, and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee. You had people, and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally but you had many people in that group other than neo nazis and white nationalists, and the press has treated them absolutely unfairly"

Incidentally, Trump has disavowed neo Nazis on many occasions before that day too and even said he didn't want their votes:

https://twitter.com/markdice/status/1158610660697108480

7. [Nigerans "should go back to their huts"] Far as I can tell, this appears to be a lie. White House statement:

"Gen. Kelly, Gen. McMaster, Secretary Tillerson, Secretary Nielsen, and all other senior staff actually in the meeting deny these outrageous claims.

"It’s both sad and telling The New York Times would print the lies of their anonymous ‘sources’ anyway."

Morgans

As Steve Bannon said, anywhere there is an argument about race, he is winning his war.

It doesnt matter who has has the better argument, or the better solution, because the point s is NOT to reach any consensus. Continuing the argument and wasting up good peoples time is the point. The content is irrelevant - in Ireland it was abortion, it will be vaccinations, it will be travellers, it will be immigrants - the front page of this forum has all its hallmarks. Lucky we are too small for it to matter, and the amount of arseholes is fewer. Eventhough Boards is giving it a good shot in giving them an airing.

Those well-mannered people who believe in respectful debate are being played into entertaining these grifters. Those with a genuine investment in a better society and who care for reaching consensus are expected to listen politely while everyone has their go at being islamophobic, transphobic, homophobic, racist, etc etc. Treat their islamophobic, transphobic, homophobic, or racist ****etalk at face value and view those people as islamaphobic, transphobic, homophobic or racist and then the victim card is played 'how dare you call me a racist' 'how dare you suppress my free speech' 'Liberalism is the fascism'. 'No you're the fascist for wanting my anti-immigrant march cancelled' and round and round we go. Young suckers do appear to get suckered in etc etc.

That's why deplatforming works. Its one of the few tools left in the online environment to those interested in having good faith arguments. If you want to hear Milo's views, follow him. I am happy that there are some companies that realise the grift and aren't playing along.

pinkyeye

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He's exerting pressure on social media to back his Vax agenda, now I'm not anti vax but I do have an issue with a politician calling the shots on what is and isn't the truth. That should be up to the individual to asses the facts and make up their own mind.

No, no individual gets to decide the truth, the truth is FACT.

You don't got to decide you don't like facts and therefore you're not going to believe them.

Simon Harris has FACT backing him up, simple.

drunkmonkey

pinkyeye wrote: »

Simon Harris has FACT backing him up, simple.

The facts don't say it's 100% safe. It's not 100% safe so he has no right to request anything that says otherwise should be purged. A vaccination doesn't guarantee anything it cuts your odds of getting it but it's not a guarantee you won't get it.
Regardless let all information out and let people decide. Twitter is a publisher if their allowing reckless unthruts to be promoted on their platform hold them responsible but this idea of shutting down all opposing information is facism.

ohnonotgmail

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The facts don't say it's 100% safe. It's not 100% safe so he has no right to request anything that says otherwise should be purged. A vaccination doesn't guarantee anything it cuts your odds of getting it but it's not a guarantee you won't get it.
Regardless let all information out and let people decide. Twitter is a publisher if their allowing reckless unthruts to be promoted on their platform hold them responsible but this idea of shutting down all opposing information is facism.

all that information is out. how else do you know it?

ILoveYourVibes

When facists of all people no longer know how to work the system they are over.

Outlaw Pete

Morgans wrote: »

Treat their islamophobic, transphobic, homophobic, or racist ****etalk at face value and view those people as islamaphobic, transphobic, homophobic or racist and then the victim card is played 'how dare you call me a racist' 'how dare you suppress my free speech'

Stewart Lee comes out with this well oiled crap all the time too in his overgrown student act, suggesting those who complain about being labelled a racist are really just racists that don't realise the world has moved on. There's as little substance in his material as there is in your post.

'Liberalism is the fascism'.

When they're smashing up venues cause the likes of Jordan Peterson are set to give a talk, or smashing people over the head with flagpoles just because they have the audacity to want to hear the likes of him speak, then yeah, that's pretty fascistic behavior.

'No you're the fascist for wanting my anti-immigrant march cancelled' and round and round we go. Young suckers do appear to get suckered in etc etc.

Anti-immigrant march? Do you mean a march to protest immigration laws maybe? Kinda a different thing, but nice try.

That's why deplatforming works. Its one of the few tools left in the online environment to those interested in having good faith arguments

"Good faith" arguments in online environments sounds a little you want 'echo chambers' in safe spaces.

Morgans

You are really not good at being a provocateur. Keep practicing, you'll improve.
For me, I've no interest in watching you develop, but best of luck in your venture.

weldoninhio

xckjoo wrote: »

So we have complete freedom of speech in this country? Nice one. You'd be happy enough with people spreading lies about you so?

What is currently stopping them?? I've never heard of anyone convicted of gossipping :rolleyes: