Deer Game Dealer

tjdoh01234

Hi Lads, I am looking for advice on what is the best way forward on this. I have deer permission that I use yearly. Normally shoot 2-3 deer for the year, get them butchered and freeze for my own use and a few friends. After that I dont shoot anymore deer. This year the farmers I have permission off want me to take out a higher number due to damage etc. What do lads do with deer that they can't eat? Is there game dealers in the west (mayo / galway / sligo) that I cn can sell to. Not looking to do this for financial gains at all, just couldn't shoot and let them go to waste. Any advice much appreciated.

Czhornet

http://www.gourmetgame.ie

Based in Scarrif, Co Clare. Eamonn will take them off you!

Damoeire33

You will have to do a game handling course before being allowed to sell to a game dealer. This involves inspecting the grolloched materials for abnormalities etc so its fit to enter the food chain

Country sports Ireland is running courses at the moment if you need to do 1

cookimonster

To the OP, unless you are suitablely qualified you can not pass on deer for commercial use.

No game dealer or 'trained hunter' can act as a collection point or certify game from an unregistored hunter.

FOOD SAFETY AUTHORITY OF IRELAND
Guidance on Hunting and Processing of Wild Game for Human Consumption

5.2 The Hunter and the Intermediary
The hunter is regarded as a person who hunts alone or is an active member of a larger hunting party (which in the case of estate/tourist hunting could include beaters, ghillies and game keepers). A hunter is not however, a mere spectator to any such activity.
An intermediary who obtains wild game bodies from hunters with the intention of placing them on the market
cannot be regarded as the hunter or the primary producer of these primary products as they do not have any direct involvement in the hunting process.


Section 4 of the same guidance document outlines exemptions for the hunter when supplying 'small' quantities for game / game meat. But the supportive food hygiene legislation will tie you in knots by means of compliance:

4. Exemptions from Legislative Requirements 5
4.1 Final Consumer and Private Domestic Consumption 5
4.2 Hunter Exemption for the Supply of Small Quantities of Primary Products 5
4.3 Hunter Exemption for the Supply of Small Quantities of Wild Game Meat

The easiest and most painless and cost effective way for an individual hunter to be legaly compliant is to do a trained hunters course.

Link to Guidance Document.
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fsai.ie/publications_wild_game/&ved=2ahUKEwi_m6DXr8jkAhVVr3EKHbD2BvcQFjACegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1-MCSOMfZmISvXQNLYOqBc

kunekunesika

In a similar situation myself, doing the course to be able to send a couple of carcasses to dealer when needed. The moneys involved will be small,200e to 300e per year max. My question is what are people in similar situation doing with regards to tax?. Not going to pay an accountant to tell me. I don't mind (gritted teeth) paying some tax, but can I deduct cost of course, bullets, mileage to game dealer etc? Just don't want to get hit with a bill from revenue for 50euro plus interest, plus penalties for 5 years!!!!
Would be much happier to give away, but just not possible.

cookimonster

If your worried about tax keep all your paper work and (big fecking guess here) 33.33% of the money earned.
Keep fuel receipts, ammo receipts, even lunch and most importantly the documents given to you by the game dealer.

If the Tax Man comes knocking then you have a base to work from instead of them predicting your extra income.

Once your bona fide trained hunter their is a paper trail, forms in triplet, copies of DHL and of course a your registered with the FSAI (somewhere in thier system).

If your only talking a few animals a year then I would not sweat it.

Cass

Damoeire33 wrote: »

Country sports Ireland is running courses at the moment if you need to do 1

The only one listed on the FSAI website is the NARGC:

Who provides training for hunters?
The competent authorities have encouraged hunter’s organisations to provide such training for their members and some hunter’s organisations have developed training courses.

Within the Irish Republic training a course in this area is currently provided by the following hunter’s organisation:

National Association of Regional Game Councils – NARGC
Brosna Way,
Ferbane Business & Technology Park,
Ballycumber Road,
Ferbane, Co. Offaly.
Email: nargc@iol.ie
Phone: 090 6453623
Fax: 090 6453697

Any hunters organisation or group of hunters or individual hunter or any other person that wishes to provide training to hunters in accordance with the relevant requirements of Regulation (EC) no 853/2004, is advised to contact the Food Safety Authority of Ireland, through the FSAI website www.fsai.ie or the FSAI Advice Line at 1890 33 66 77 or email info@fsai.ie for advice on how to proceed.

Grizzly 45

If you read sections 4.1 to sect 4.3 of that guidance.You could literally drive a fleet of artics thru it.Do you think all of the poaching scrotes have any of these qualifications?:mad:

Damoeire33

Cass wrote: »

The only one listed on the FSAI website is the NARGC:

Heh Cass

C.S.I. now also are running one. its externally accredited by Lantra and accepted by food safety Ireland & all the game dealers.

I attended it yesterday in the Midlands not only theory but also a freshly shot/ grolloched deer with a demo on how & what to look for on the carcass & pluck.

Great day

Cass

Yeah i know the one in the midlands. I was just pointing out that FSAI only have the nargc listed as an accredited course. Now Irish websites are notorious for not being updated either at all or regularly, but they (FSAI) need to get their finger out and list all the courses that are accepted. The CSI/MNSCI course would also do well to contact the FSAI and have them update the site to reflect this. It may put lads off it they think the course, while worthwhile, is not going to be accepted.

Rabbit22

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If you read sections 4.1 to sect 4.3 of that guidance.You could literally drive a fleet of artics thru it.Do you think all of the poaching scrotes have any of these qualifications?:mad:

I take it you read it like I did, anyone with the course done or not can sell to a butcher?

cookimonster

Rabbit22 wrote: »

I take it you read it like I did, anyone with the course done or not can sell to a butcher?

To be honest with you I can't see many butchers buying off hunters regardless of any loop holes. As it is the health authorities are or have considered / put in place the restriction of the production of commercialy made mince meat allowing only the meat processers to produce it.
Butchers come under close scrutiny in the butchering of primary cuts of meat, with very few covered for the breaking of carcass.
Coupled with step back tracability I cant see them purchasing either whole carcasses or primary cuts of meat off a hunter unless he or she can prove thier compliance n the food chain.

I think this section is just for lip service.

Rabbit22

cookimonster wrote: »

To be honest with you I can't see many butchers buying off hunters regardless of any loop holes. As it is the health authorities are or have considered / put in place the restriction of the production of commercialy made mince meat allowing only the meat processers to produce it.
Butchers come under close scrutiny in the butchering of primary cuts of meat, with very few covered for the breaking of carcass.
Coupled with step back tracability I cant see them purchasing either whole carcasses or primary cuts of meat off a hunter unless he or she can prove thier compliance n the food chain.

I think this section is just for lip service.

I'm not suggesting that an ordenary butcher would take animals but I'm sure game dealers could exploit this loophole to take from anyone?

cookimonster

I have seen one article on a 'prosecution' of a game dealer here for irregular procedure, and would be interested if there are more recorded cases.

What I believe the loop hole to be, which in fact is not a loop hole but a blatant contravention of the regs, would be the practice of middle men, whom are registered 'Trained Hunters' collecting game, both feather and fur, from secound party and delivering them to the game dealer under thier own name and credentials. This practice could be extended to both legitimate hunters and poachers alike.
In this scenario the dealers are not at fault as they are receiving the game in good faith. People may argue that when a van load of animals is brought to the game dealer should they not question it, but like many different aspects in life they are dealing on good faith and a system in place. There are multiple reasons why a lad can turn up with 6-7 animals in one go and the circumstances to this are too numerous to account for at the moment in this post.

Damoeire33

In order for the "Trained Hunter" to sell to his/her local butcher or resturaunt they would have to adhere to the food safety Ireland rules & regulations ie proper storage facilities(coca cola fridge aint going to cut it) hasap cleaniness(cold room in a dusty shed/workshop probably not ok), open to regular checks, im assuming tax implications & some sort of traceability system

So all in all not worth it for the regular trained hunter imho