no income tax cuts from irelands "right wing" party

lan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

working age supports and supplements is 4.8 billion

Only adds up to 3.8 billion as far as I can tell. I'm using the figures here:

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2019/

Again, only 2 billion of that is Job seekers. The next biggest are one parent family allowance and maternity benefit (which only benefits workers).

disability and carers allowance with their rampant fraud is another 2.4 billion

Sure, then crack down on disability fraud, I'm sure 99% of the population would agree with that (though preferably not by forcing people to prove that their lifelong medical conditions haven't miraculously cleared up this time). Same with job seekers, crack down on it too. **** all people support welfare fraud. It's not actually going to save all that much money though.

So if you want lower taxes, how are you planning on significantly cutting the welfare budget? What's getting the axe?

The biggest problem we have is that, at low incomes, you're actually incentivized not to work / earn above a certain amount. Not by the taxation system, but by the added benefits like social housing / rent allowance and free medical cards.

That's the real problem they need to fix.

Portsalon

lan wrote: »

The biggest problem we have is that, at low incomes, you're actually incentivized not to work / earn above a certain amount. Not by the taxation system, but by the added benefits like social housing / rent allowance and free medical cards.

That's the real problem they need to fix.

Yep. And there's not a hope in hell that it will be tackled.

Calhoun

Portsalon wrote: »

You get free dental and eyesight check ups plus free specs if you need them.

Annual taxsaver tickets can save you up to 52% of public transport costs.

The Zapper's new childcare schemes are launching on 1st October! Check out the new website here:- https://ncs.gov.ie/parent

Free dental? there was me thinking it was extortionate to get your teeth done here.

Free eyesight checkup is great 10 euros every 2 years :P i didnt know you got free glasses either.

As for the child care, its still super expensive but i suppose its a start.

Not to sound ungrateful or anything but the value for money for tax versus what we get out of it is pretty bad.

God forbid you need services other than the barely interacting with the government. People with disabilities in particular are left behind for example.

rocksolidfat

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Plenty in the PS who continue to have a pay cut from 12 years ago. They might have had some increases, but not enough to restore the cuts.

Not many in the private sector earning less than 2007, even if they are in similar jobs.

First, this would appear to be straw manning, as I would responding to someone claiming he was told by a PS worker that they had not received any pay increases in 12 years at all.

Ignoring that however, your argument is incorrect. Public sector wages are higher almost across the board now than they were in Q1, 2008 (the earliest I could find for the statistics and before the recession kicked in) and remain notably higher than in the private sector. The one exception to wages going up across 11 public sector areas was regional bodies:

Weekly average pay - Q1 2008 vs Q2 2019 - https://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=EHQ10&PLanguage=0

• 1. Civil Service - 918.03 to 939.78 - 2.35% increase
• 2. Defence Forces - 843.53 to 866.60 - 2.7% increase
• 3. Gardai - 1,182.62 to 1,348.26 - 14% increase
• 4. Education - 892.52 to 991.30 - 11.1% increase
• 5. Regional Bodies - 963.45 to 852.43 - 12.6% decrease
• 6. Health - 827.93 to 947.35 - 14.4% increase
• 7. Semi State Companies - 997.79 to 1,065.34 - 6.8% increase
• 8. Commercial Semi State Companies - 1,006.66 to 1,083.66 - 7.6% increase
• 9. Non Commercial Semi State Companies - 967.83 to 1,018.93 - 5.6% increase
• 10. Total Public Sector including Semi State bodies - 904.65 to 980.98 - 8.4% increase
• 11. Total Public Sector excluding Semi State bodies - 889.82 to 967.48 - 8.7% increase

The average wage/salary worked out on an annual basis in Ireland in 2018 was €38,781 - https://www.thejournal.ie/rish-workers-earn-an-average-of-e23-an-hour-4677090-Jun2019/ - that works out to €745/wk, which if you look above you will notice is lower than every single listed area of the public sector.

Even if we pretend the public sector do not have any part time staff, and so only look pay full time pay in the private sector, the average comes to €915.30, lower than the public sector on average by 5.7% - 7.2% depending on if you include semi-states, and lower than every individual area bar defense and regional bodies.

Public sector wages are up quite noticeably on where they were in early 2008, and on average are higher than private sector wages.

Mr. teddywinkles

99problems1 wrote: »

Nah because they'll just go "we're investing in public transport blah blah blah".

Oh yeah...ye are....wow, one ****ing carriage more in 2021 for the maynooth commuter line. It's already jam packed and one carriage isn't going to cut it by 2021.

These fools don't know how to run a country and provide services so the less people in it the better. I'd rather have a crash and be able to drive on a road or send a kid to school in comfort. None of this fake investment, bending working people over.

And maybe ya won't have to worry and have no job to drive to.

Thelonious Monk

I don't think giving us all more money through tax cuts is going to improve this country. More money pumped into public services is what we need and infrastructure.

GooglePlus

Same old shiitake and we'll be saying the same thing about the next lot we vote in.

What can we actually do, that would be constructive and genuinely change things?

Portsalon

Calhoun wrote: »

Free dental? there was me thinking it was extortionate to get your teeth done here.

Free eyesight checkup is great 10 euros every 2 years :P i didnt know you got free glasses either.

As for the child care, its still super expensive but i suppose its a start.

Not to sound ungrateful or anything but the value for money for tax versus what we get out of it is pretty bad.

God forbid you need services other than the barely interacting with the government. People with disabilities in particular are left behind for example.

Not forgetting that the missus gets a free boob and cervix check every year while I enjoy sending some of my finest waste to the lads and lassies who run the bowel check scheme!

And then there's the free blood checks, free x-rays and free flu jab that are available annually.

Three cheers for the HSE.

Calhoun

GooglePlus wrote: »

Same old shiitake and we'll be saying the same thing about the next lot we vote in.

What can we actually do, that would be constructive and genuinely change things?

Indeed, politics right now in Ireland is a case of who is the lesser evil.

Calhoun

Portsalon wrote: »

Not forgetting that the missus gets a free boob and cervix check every year while I enjoy sending some of my finest waste to the lads and lassies who run the bowel check scheme!

And then there's the free blood checks, free x-rays and free flu jab that are available annually.

Three cheers for the HSE.

I suppose older people need to be looked after so they give you more.

Its a pity my 5 year old doesn't get the same free goody list.

Charles Babbage

rocksolidfat wrote: »

First, this would appear to be straw manning, as I would responding to someone claiming he was told by a PS worker that they had not received any pay increases in 12 years at all.

Ignoring that however, your argument is incorrect. Public sector wages are higher almost across the board now than they were in Q1, 2008

I didn't make any statement about the average of wages, so perhaps it is you who is straw manning.

Calhoun

Calhoun wrote: »

I suppose older people need to be looked after so they give you more.

Its a pity my 5 year old doesn't get the same free goody list.

Why would a 5 year old need any of that?


Why have OAP's etc that genuinely need them on waiting lists so a bunch of children can avail of them?

Calhoun

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would a 5 year old need any of that?


Why have OAP's etc that genuinely need them on waiting lists so a bunch of children can avail of them?

We have 5 year olds with special needs whos care isn't been looked after in this country.

So yah its great that we invest in the older folk but we need to look after our other vulnerable as well. I never said 5 year olds needed any of those services just that the HSE isn't all its cracked up to be.

GooglePlus

Portsalon wrote: »

You get free dental and eyesight check ups plus free specs if you need them.

Annual taxsaver tickets can save you up to 52% of public transport costs.

The Zapper's new childcare schemes are launching on 1st October! Check out the new website here:- https://ncs.gov.ie/parent

You mean you get 15 minutes of a dentist telling you your mouths in ****e but in order to fix anything, you'll need to remortgage your house. Those PRSI check ups aren't worth a bollocks.

Portsalon

Calhoun wrote: »

I suppose older people need to be looked after so they give you more.

Its a pity my 5 year old doesn't get the same free goody list.

Don't be a fool!

Your 5 year old gets a free GP card! I'd trade you two of my three testicles for one of those!

My GP costs me €200 a year and the same for the missus.

rob316

Portsalon wrote: »

Not forgetting that the missus gets a free boob and cervix check every year while I enjoy sending some of my finest waste to the lads and lassies who run the bowel check scheme!

And then there's the free blood checks, free x-rays and free flu jab that are available annually.

Three cheers for the HSE.

A free cervix swear where you'll be dead by the time you get the results if you do have cancer.

Calhoun

Portsalon wrote: »

Don't be a fool!

Your 5 year old gets a free GP card! I'd trade you two of my three testicles for one of those!

My GP costs me €200 a year and the same for the missus.

GP's offer psychiatry services, occupational therapy, and any of the other items needed for children with special needs?

Don't you get a medical card when your older or are you in the rich demographic of old people?

Portsalon

GooglePlus wrote: »

You mean you get 15 minutes of a dentist telling you your mouths in ****e but in order to fix anything, you'll need to remortgage your house. Those PRSI check ups aren't worth a bollocks.

If you looked after your teeth than you wouldn't need to have them repaired.

Portsalon

Calhoun wrote: »

GP's offer psychiatry services, occupational therapy, and any of the other items needed for children with special needs?

Don't you get a medical card when your older or are you in the rich demographic of old people?

I'll probably get one when I'm 70.

rocksolidfat

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I didn't make any statement about the average of wages, so perhaps it is you who is straw manning.

Fair point, my apologies as I must have misread that.

Your argument was however, that private sector wages have been going up faster than public sector. Yet the fact that public sector wages were higher, and still are higher, than private sector so this is a positive thing if anything as they come closer to parity.

Your other point was inferring public sector wages are lower now than they were before the recession. This is categorically untrue, as I have shown, with the one exception being regional bodies. Average wages in all others are up, and considerably so in some cases.

joeysoap

21 Non contributory pensioners living abroad. ( contributory I understand)

Portsalon

Calhoun wrote: »

GP's offer psychiatry services, occupational therapy, and any of the other items needed for children with special needs?

Do you or do you not get a free GP card for your 5 year old?

Portsalon

joeysoap wrote: »

21 Non contributory pensioners living abroad. ( contributory I understand)

Very unusual - they may be receiving long-term medical care not available in Ireland.

GooglePlus

Portsalon wrote: »

If you looked after your teeth than you wouldn't need to have them repaired.

Well that's not really the point, is it.

You used the PRSI dental check to counter argue the fact that we get piss all for our taxes.

If you're saying that the check itself is only of use when your teeth are fine, you have proven the previous posters point.

Portsalon

rob316 wrote: »

A free cervix swear where you'll be dead by the time you get the results if you do have cancer.

Yep. Sadly the HSE's planned immortality scheme hasn't yet been launched.

rob316

Portsalon wrote: »

Do you or do you not get a free GP card for your 5 year old?

Ya you do but I can tell you first hand it's **** all help for a special needs child.

Portsalon

GooglePlus wrote: »

Well that's not really the point, is it.

You used the PRSI dental check to counter argue the fact that we get piss all for our taxes.

If you're saying that the check itself is only of use when your teeth are fine, you have proven the previous posters point.

In addition to the free annual dental check you also get €42 towards the cost of scaling and polishing. This for me means that I pay €10 for the latter.

rob316

Portsalon wrote: »

Yep. Sadly the HSE's planned immortality scheme hasn't yet been launched.

Up to 8 months for results for something the NHS are providing in 14 days.

This thread is so depressing but very valid points.
The cost of everything has increased so much over the years. The only thing never increasing as much is wages.

We’ve been hearing about the countries recovery for a long time now... does anybody actually feel it?

I’d imagine people are no better off than they were in 2008.

Portsalon

rob316 wrote: »

Ya you do but I can tell you first hand it's **** all help for a special needs child.

So your SN child NEVER needs to go to a GP?