no income tax cuts from irelands "right wing" party

Portsalon

rob316 wrote: »

Up to 8 months for results for something the NHS are providing in 14 days.

This NHS:

Screening service in 'meltdown' as more women attend smears.

Women could be forced to wait months for cervical cancer screening results because the planned closure of dozens of laboratories has left the service in “meltdown”, the Guardian has been told.

or the alternative one inside your head?

rocksolidfat

Portsalon wrote: »

So your SN child NEVER needs to go to a GP?

I think that is being a little disingenuous to be fair, unless you are suggesting that their GP will be providing NEPS assessments, theraplay and the like? Because they won't, it's not within their training.

Calhoun

Portsalon wrote: »

So your SN child NEVER needs to go to a GP?

Not as often as you would think , it's also not the point because there are many other services they need they don't get.

GooglePlus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This thread is so depressing but very valid points.
The cost of everything has increased so much over the years. The only thing never increasing as much is wages.

We’ve been hearing about the countries recovery for a long time now... does anybody actually feel it?

I’d imagine people are no better off than they were in 2008.

I'd be better off on the dole, than working in the Civil Service, as I currently do.

lola85

GooglePlus wrote: »

I'd be better off on the dole, than working in the Civil Service, as I currently do.

Do it so?

Surely a no brainer?

Portsalon

Calhoun wrote: »

Not as often as you would think , it's also not the point because there are many other services they need they don't get.

Might that be because people aren't paying sufficient tax to enable the HSE to recruit the correct number of specialists that are required to serve the public in a timely manner?

If so, shouldn't you be complaining that we're not paying enough tax?

GooglePlus

Portsalon wrote: »

Might that be because people aren't paying sufficient tax to enable the HSE to recruit the correct number of specialists that are required to serve the public in a timely manner?

If so, shouldn't you be complaining that we're not paying enough tax?

Or maybe the taxes that we do pay can be spent correctly.

rob316

Portsalon wrote: »

So your SN child NEVER needs to go to a GP?

His needs are above that of a regular child, we need access to a psychologist, occupational therapist, speech and language therapy. A GP's fees pale in comparison to these.

He is perfectly healthy I couldn't remember the last time I brought him to a GP.

Portsalon

GooglePlus wrote: »

Or maybe the taxes that we do pay can be spent correctly.

As a civil servant I assume that never in your career have you wasted a single cent?

GooglePlus

lola85 wrote: »

Do it so?

Surely a no brainer?

No, I'd rather work for my money all the same.

GooglePlus

Portsalon wrote: »

As a civil servant I assume that never in your career have you wasted a single cent?

Of course I have.

As has any private sector worker.

Waste or loss is always going to be a factor in the processes of any organisation, private or public.

Idbatterim

My mother is about to get the state pension. Going back through all her jobs and paperwork to prove she qualifies for the contributory state pension. Bloody waste of time given there is virtually no difference between the contrbutory and non contributory. One worker could have contributed hundreds of thousands , possibly a few million in income taxes and gets the same pension as someone who has spent a life thieving off his work !

Calhoun

Portsalon wrote: »

Might that be because people aren't paying sufficient tax to enable the HSE to recruit the correct number of specialists that are required to serve the public in a timely manner?

If so, shouldn't you be complaining that we're not paying enough tax?

Might be because we have a bloated public service who exists to service itself mainly.

How would you feel if your daughter had special needs and you knew the support she needed for early intervention to ensure she had a decent quality of life was not coming?

The HSE that i have dealt with lied to us about allot of stuff we should have got legally it was actually only after we got a human rights lawyer involved that we actually got our statutory obligations.

I never said i wouldn't pay more tax, it was you who responded to a poster who said they would pay more tax for better services implying they already got enough.

Portsalon

Calhoun wrote: »

Might be because we have a bloated public service who exists to service itself mainly.

My bullsh1t detector almost blew up when I read that tripe, so I stopped reading.

Calhoun

Portsalon wrote: »

My bullsh1t detector almost blew up when I read that tripe so I stopped reading.

It must be hard having a vested interest and seeing it being attacked.

rob316

Didn't know we had a FG spokesman on the thread. **** me this fella can't see any wrong

I presume everybody is aware of this gem in today's Irish Times:
Four executives save €1m each or more in tax – Revenue: Contentious State initiative to attract senior personnel allows for 30% relief on income

Read the whole article, because it's considerably worse than the headline.

However, the upper earning ceiling was abolished for the years between 2015 and 2020 making all income above €75,000 eligible for this exemption. There was a sharp escalation in the number availing of the scheme in 2015 (586) and in 2016 (793).

The cost of tax foregone to the exchequer also increased dramatically, trebling from € 5.9 million in 2014 to €18 million in 2016.

Four of the 793 individuals who availed of the relief in 2016 had an annual salary between €3 million to €10 million. With a 30 per cent relief on their income, their tax bills were each reduced by close to €1 million in that year. All four will be entitled to similar reliefs in all five years to 2020.

Meanwhile, the average Irish person on €50k or €100k gets it in the neck with marginal PAYE/PRSI/USC rates and, if they're a public servant a full 10% (or more) on top of all that, on all their income above c. €34k.

Even Ernest Blythe - sweet mother of divine lantering Jesus! - kept taxation low for the middle classes as well as the wealthy (of course). Our glorious neoliberal fundamentalism in 2019 has high taxation for the middle classes and the lowest taxation of all for the richest and their foot soldiers at the upper end of the multinationals in Ireland like the above crowd.

TLDR: Social welfare is so much more awful than corporate welfare, like. I blame Travellers and dole scroungers but never, ever, ever our states which are falling over themselves to give these super rich corporations and their owners the... lowest tax rate on the planet so that the already eye-watering gap between the super rich and the rest of us grows exponentially. Long may the plebs keep the focus on the evil dole scroungers, though!

tayto lover

Idbatterim wrote: »

My mother is about to get the state pension. Going back through all her jobs and paperwork to prove she qualifies for the contributory state pension. Bloody waste of time given there is virtually no difference between the contrbutory and non contributory. One worker could have contributed hundreds of thousands , possibly a few million in income taxes and gets the same pension as someone who has spent a life thieving off his work !

Feck all difference.
Why work at all I often wonder?

JohnMc1

99problems1 wrote: »

Ah and so the dripfeeding of budget changes are leaked to the media so there's no major headlines and thus no unified outrage. Pack of **** FG. Bring back FF.

No doubt social welfare and pensions will go up. Absolute cretins.

Makes me sick seeing people praise FG for Brexit when they aren't even doing anything, only preserving the good friday agreement and doing what the EU says.

Bring back Fianna Fail? Are you serious? We're in this mess mostly because of them.

tayto lover

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Bring back Fianna Fail? Are you serious? We're in this mess mostly because of them.

While FG watched in silence while they feckin screwed the country.
They’re all the same.

JohnMc1

tayto lover wrote: »

While FG watched in silence while they feckin screwed the country.
They’re all the same.

They're all scummy.

lan

rocksolidfat wrote: »

public sector wages were higher, and still are higher, than private sector

There's a few problems by just using averages here. You're comparing apples to oranges.

The jobs in the public sector aren't the same make-up as the private sector. To get a fair comparison, you'd have to compare the salaries of the same types of jobs in the public and private, e.g. public sector office worker vs private sector office worker. I'm not saying you wouldn't end up with the same result, but at least it'd be a valid comparison.

rocksolidfat wrote: »

Your other point was inferring public sector wages are lower now than they were before the recession. This is categorically untrue, as I have shown, with the one exception being regional bodies. Average wages in all others are up, and considerably so in some cases.

An average increase in wages doesn't necessarily mean that someone doing the same job is getting paid more. Public sector employees get yearly increments (up to a cap), so broadly speaking, the longer they're there, the more they earn. If they put moratoriums on hiring new staff or people choose to retire later, that would then also increase the average wage, for example.

Your figure of 14.4% increase for the Health sector stood out, so I had a quick look. I picked three jobs, a nurse (Staff Nurse), a non consultant Doctor (Registrar) and an admin grade (Clerical Officer Grade IV) to check, all at first point on the scale, sourced here:

https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/benefitsservices/pay/

Nurse in 2007: €30,339
Nurse in 2019: €29,346

Decrease of 3.3%

DR in 2007: €51,273
DR in 2019: €55,872

Increase of 9%

Admin in 2007: €28,384
Admin in 2019: €27,563

Decrease of 2.9%

So some public sector wages are clearly still lower than 2007 (actually 2008 appears to have been the peak btw).

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

My mother is about to get the state pension. Going back through all her jobs and paperwork to prove she qualifies for the contributory state pension. Bloody waste of time given there is virtually no difference between the contrbutory and non contributory. One worker could have contributed hundreds of thousands , possibly a few million in income taxes and gets the same pension as someone who has spent a life thieving off his work !

no difference?

theres a fair reasonable difference, my father in law still isnt over the shock of finding out what hes missed out on as a result of his employer not contributing several years worth of his employer prsi

private sector, seeing as you ask.

Hibernicis

westcork67 wrote: »

If you are a hard working private sector PAYE worker in this country earning over €40k there is no political party from an economic perspective that deserves your vote - the rush to the left by our politicians to appease the socialist media in this country is scary - spend what we don't have and to hell with the consequences! Where have we seen this happen before?!?!?!

Fine Gael and Varadkar have been such a disappointment on this - I would have voted for them believing that they wanted to incentivise work and get to grips with the significant portion of the population who contribute little more to the country than a sense of entitlement - I am left with a protest vote option next election at this point

+++++++++

rossie1977

westcork67 wrote: »

If you are a hard working private sector PAYE worker in this country earning over €40k there is no political party from an economic perspective that deserves your vote - the rush to the left by our politicians to appease the socialist media in this country is scary - spend what we don't have and to hell with the consequences! Where have we seen this happen before?!?!?!

Fine Gael and Varadkar have been such a disappointment on this - I would have voted for them believing that they wanted to incentivise work and get to grips with the significant portion of the population who contribute little more to the country than a sense of entitlement - I am left with a protest vote option next election at this point

What right wing party puts workers over corporations or the wealthy elite.. the Republicans in the US certainly don't, the Tories certainly don't. One of the main aspects of right wing politics is erosion of workers rights and power as a whole. The further right you go the more that becomes clear. Workers are there to exploited not rewarded.

The argument that our government be it FF or FG are somehow rushing to the left is well wide of the mark in terms of fiscal economics . Our government like pretty much every one in Western Europe is neoliberal. While the gap between the elite in society and everyone else hasn't exploded to the level we have seen since 1980 in the US its still rising at a worrying level.

All across the country cuts are being made be it post offices, garda stations, hospitals, schools, bus services etc etc despite the fact Ireland is posting budget surpluses. Eventually something will give like it did in France with the yellow vests. Those protests were mainly rural French who had gotten screwed for decades and saw public services disappear while corporations and the top 0.1% in society reaped the benefits.

jim salter

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The circumstances for a monumental crash are not there. A recession maybe.

We'll see

lola85

rossie1977 wrote: »

What right wing party puts workers over corporations or the wealthy elite.. the Republicans in the US certainly don't, the Tories certainly don't. One of the main aspects of right wing politics is erosion of workers rights and power as a whole. The further right you go the more that becomes clear. Workers are there to exploited not rewarded.

The argument that our government be it FF or FG are somehow rushing to the left is well wide of the mark in terms of fiscal economics . Our government like pretty much every one in Western Europe is neoliberal. While the gap between the elite in society and everyone else hasn't exploded to the level we have seen since 1980 in the US its still rising at a worrying level.

All across the country cuts are being made be it post offices, garda stations, hospitals, schools, bus services etc etc despite the fact Ireland is posting budget surpluses. Eventually something will give like it did in France with the yellow vests. Those protests were mainly rural French who had gotten screwed for decades and saw public services disappear while corporations and the top 0.1% in society reaped the benefits.

Neoliberal.

Goodnight.

THE_SHEEP

After reading some of the comments on this thread , these " dole guys and gals " have alot to answer for . Caused the recession by bringing down lemans , wrecked the economy , paid off bankers , set up various cartels ( insurance etc ) .
We need these low life investigated by some honest authority . I know the right people for the job ; the trustworthy Irish politicians .

( PS They even caused some poor lady to fall of a swing in a venue in Dublin recently . Horrible evil bunch these dole scroungers ) .

ittakestwo

lan wrote: »

There's a few problems by just using averages here. You're comparing apples to oranges.

The jobs in the public sector aren't the same make-up as the private sector. To get a fair comparison, you'd have to compare the salaries of the same types of jobs in the public and private, e.g. public sector office worker vs private sector office worker. I'm not saying you wouldn't end up with the same result, but at least it'd be a valid comparison.



An average increase in wages doesn't necessarily mean that someone doing the same job is getting paid more. Public sector employees get yearly increments (up to a cap), so broadly speaking, the longer they're there, the more they earn. If they put moratoriums on hiring new staff or people choose to retire later, that would then also increase the average wage, for example.

Your figure of 14.4% increase for the Health sector stood out, so I had a quick look. I picked three jobs, a nurse (Staff Nurse), a non consultant Doctor (Registrar) and an admin grade (Clerical Officer Grade IV) to check, all at first point on the scale, sourced here:

https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/benefitsservices/pay/

Nurse in 2007: €30,339
Nurse in 2019: €29,346

Decrease of 3.3%

DR in 2007: €51,273
DR in 2019: €55,872

Increase of 9%

Admin in 2007: €28,384
Admin in 2019: €27,563

Decrease of 2.9%

So some public sector wages are clearly still lower than 2007 (actually 2008 appears to have been the peak btw).

When comparing private to public sector pay in Ireland you will always hear the apples and orange argument spouted out to justify the 40+% difference here.

But why in the UK is it less than 10%?, in Germany and France there is no difference between public and private sector pay. What makes Ireland different?

I remember Eurostat did a study on the difference between public and private pay in all the EU countries about 10 years ago. Three counties were way ahead of the rest on the list, Ireland Greece and Portugal..... the only 3 countries that needed an IMF/EU bailout.

ittakestwo

westcork67 wrote: »

If you are a hard working private sector PAYE worker in this country earning over €40k there is no political party from an economic perspective that deserves your vote - the rush to the left by our politicians to appease the socialist media in this country is scary - spend what we don't have and to hell with the consequences! Where have we seen this happen before?!?!?!

Fine Gael and Varadkar have been such a disappointment on this - I would have voted for them believing that they wanted to incentivise work and get to grips with the significant portion of the population who contribute little more to the country than a sense of entitlement - I am left with a protest vote option next election at this point

@second paragraph. FG came to power in early 2011 and unemployment was 15% and a huge social problem. It's now 5%. Alot of people have got back to work and are not on the dole.

@OP Ireland is going through a boom. If we learned any economic lesson from the last boom it's not to pour fuel on a boom with tax give away budgets..... because when the business cycle eventaly goes bad you have to take it back and that's when you really hear about peoples self of entitlement.

Irelands capital budget was smashed in the recession and are biggest social problem today is housing problem. To me they shouldn't have a giveaway budget but put any extra cash back into the capital budget.