no income tax cuts from irelands "right wing" party

Scoundrel

Idbatterim wrote: »

Basically there will be another cyncial vote buyer for the pensioners, likely E5 a week. (The pensions system here is an absolute ticking time bomb)! Dole probably increased too. Theyve been benefiting by a bigger weekly euro increase, than workers on earning up to E50,000 the last few budgets, so nothing new there!

They are lucky there isnt a competent party that would reward workers, rather than the layabouts here! Or they would be far more conscious to reward the idiots that vote for them, actually believing that they serve their interests. I assume FG think they will lose votes from the likes of Margaret Ca$h if they dont continually prop up the outrageous welfare state, paid by the working poor who are hit by a marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent!


https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0911/1075178-cabinet-budget/

Before you inflict such dribble on others you should actually read what the minister said i.e there will be no social welfare increase in the budget and if being on SW is so great why don't you quit your job and go on it? Or would that ruin your pathetic little outrage wankathon?

Geuze

CalamariFritti wrote: »

If you look across Europe we're one of the lowest income tax countries.

Yes, our income taxes are low, although not very low.

PRSI is especially low at 4%, versus 20% approx in Germany.

HOWEVER, the entry point to the top rate here is a crazy 35k approx.

So even though many earners pay no income tax or very little, people's perceptions is that we are a high tax country.

My parents pay 8% income tax on 48k approx income, and get:

free TV licence
35pm / 420 pa off elec
two full medical cards
free travel


all in return for a very low 8% approx income tax on 48k income.

Geuze

ittakestwo wrote: »

@second paragraph. FG came to power in early 2011 and unemployment was 15% and a huge social problem. It's now 5%. Alot of people have got back to work and are not on the dole.

Although the unemployment rate is low, employment is also low, not as high as other countries.

This is because we lead Europe in economic inactivity. We have the highest rate of VLWI.

VLWI = very low work intensity.

tom1ie

The indicator persons living in households with very low work intensity is defined as the number of persons living in a household where the members of working age worked less than 20 % of their total potential during the previous 12 months.

The work intensity of a household is the ratio of the total number of months that all working-age household members have worked during the income reference year and the total number of months the same household members theoretically could have worked in the same period.

A working-age person is a person aged 18-59 years, with the exclusion of students in the age group between 18 and 24 years.

Households composed only of children, of students aged less then 25 and/or people aged 60 or more are completely excluded from the indicator calculation.

_Kaiser_

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/anger-over-affordable-redevelopment-where-buyers-will-need-to-earn-at-least-108k-per-year-and-have-42k-savings-38489598.html

More comedy there! 420,000 for a three bed , that your neighbor gets for free! So 420,000 after a thirty year mortgage and after tax! They are effectively giving the free house brigade over a million euro in housing supports , if given a property for say fifty years with a market rent of e1250 ( which would get you a kennel in Dublin ) !

And then you read...

The Taoiseach claimed Fianna Fáil is making financial promises that “can only be filled with higher taxes or greater borrowing”.

“They need to come clean and tell us. There’s a new promise to a new group every week. And when you promise everything to everyone, it means your promises aren’t worth much. They can’t be trusted.

“They have no solutions. No policies. No plans. And they do not have the team to match ours,” he said.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/may-2020-is-right-moment-for-election-taoiseach-38491842.html

Ahahaha! He really is deluded! As for his "team" - quality players like Murphy, Harris and Bailey I presume? :rolleyes:

tom1ie

piplip87 wrote: »

Let's call a spade a spade here. The social welfare bill is far too high but no government are willing to take it on. We have certain types

Firstly Type 1 : we all know lads who've been on the dole too long, there living at home, throwing 40 or 50 quid a week to the mother and are left with 150 a week to spend as they wish. They go out every weekend, and buy the latest Xbox games with a bag of weed to pass the time.

Then we have the Margaret Cash types. 7 or 8 kids, council house, back to school, children's allowance, medical card who could be getting 40-50K yearly in social welfare payments without any of the tax, medical costs, rent, etc. Thes types are better off with more disposable income than somebody working earning 70K a year. Many type 1 ambition is to one day have enough to kids to live like this.

Then we have the dole bums for life. Signed on at 18 will attend JobPath, courses and even the odd CE scheme to keep the dole payment. They spend Thier days drinking cans and listening to country music, blaming foreigners for them been out of work.....

These people are gaming the system and screwing us all. These are the ones that should be cut, given supermarket vouchers for food, nappies etc and basically just enough to survive on.

Then we have the fella who lost a job lately with a mortgage, kids and ****load of bills where the social welfare payment is just about keeping his head above water. He is using social welfare as it is ment to be used.

We have a young woman who is 34 and worked right up until her diagnosis, she has MS that means she cannot work until it is stabilized and even after that some days she will be in severe pain and it's a struggle to get out of bed, she fears that if she misses a day or two of work she cannot feed her kids but life on disability payments is not who she is.

I know somebody in the position of the last two people.on this list. They should be taken care off and in first 6-9 Months of losing a job the social welfare payment should match your take home pay, retraining/up-skilling provided and then a small 2% levy on your wages to help repay it back when you return to work.

As for those with a disability or illness the fear of numerous sick days or missing pay should be taken away from them. Disability payments should be separated from the social welfare rates as in many cases the person would work if well enough, remove the barriers to work for them, but make sure government assistance is there for them of there are periods where they cannot work and give employers incentives to employ people with illnesses such as MS.

Or you could look at the biggest expenditure on the social welfare bill @ 8 billion a year, the state pension time bomb, but yeah whatever, keep on going man!

Scoundrel

Scoundrel wrote: »

Before you inflict such dribble on others you should actually read what the minister said i.e there will be no social welfare increase in the budget and if being on SW is so great why don't you quit your job and go on it? Or would that ruin your pathetic little outrage wankathon?

i may struggle to put this into terms that arent personalised, but I'll make an honest attempt

now, its only as far as i can see, and im as fallible as anyone this side of heaven, but:

the OP tends to dump these rants periodically without reference to actual evidence or complexity, and almost never engages with any of either that may be offered.

no information gets in. none comes out. the entire exercise is just a circular ball of confused, tabloid-fuelled frustration.

now ive got my little pet hates that i can tend towards irrational and irritable on, i just think that being that way about something as big and complex as an entire country, society, economy etc is a very strange and unhealthy approach.

if something that self evidently complex appears to you to be so simple, i think possibly a little moment of self-interrogation is warranted, if only for your own peace of mind.

James Brown

piplip87 wrote: »

Let's call a spade a spade here. The social welfare bill is far too high but no government are willing to take it on. We have certain types

Firstly Type 1 : we all know lads who've been on the dole too long, there living at home, throwing 40 or 50 quid a week to the mother and are left with 150 a week to spend as they wish. They go out every weekend, and buy the latest Xbox games with a bag of weed to pass the time.

Then we have the Margaret Cash types. 7 or 8 kids, council house, back to school, children's allowance, medical card who could be getting 40-50K yearly in social welfare payments without any of the tax, medical costs, rent, etc. Thes types are better off with more disposable income than somebody working earning 70K a year. Many type 1 ambition is to one day have enough to kids to live like this.

Then we have the dole bums for life. Signed on at 18 will attend JobPath, courses and even the odd CE scheme to keep the dole payment. They spend Thier days drinking cans and listening to country music, blaming foreigners for them been out of work.....

These people are gaming the system and screwing us all. These are the ones that should be cut, given supermarket vouchers for food, nappies etc and basically just enough to survive on.

Then we have the fella who lost a job lately with a mortgage, kids and ****load of bills where the social welfare payment is just about keeping his head above water. He is using social welfare as it is ment to be used.

We have a young woman who is 34 and worked right up until her diagnosis, she has MS that means she cannot work until it is stabilized and even after that some days she will be in severe pain and it's a struggle to get out of bed, she fears that if she misses a day or two of work she cannot feed her kids but life on disability payments is not who she is.

I know somebody in the position of the last two people.on this list. They should be taken care off and in first 6-9 Months of losing a job the social welfare payment should match your take home pay, retraining/up-skilling provided and then a small 2% levy on your wages to help repay it back when you return to work.

As for those with a disability or illness the fear of numerous sick days or missing pay should be taken away from them. Disability payments should be separated from the social welfare rates as in many cases the person would work if well enough, remove the barriers to work for them, but make sure government assistance is there for them of there are periods where they cannot work and give employers incentives to employ people with illnesses such as MS.

How many are gaming à la Type 1, in this climate of low unemployment?
Who do you think is responsible for the set up we have?

I believe they, (successive governments, TBF FF/FG) don't care to tackle it. It works out great for them. They get to make hay off the sunshine of our misery. You can't make money on renting and selling houses if the government are supplying affordable. The hotels and private vulture funds and developers would lose a fortune.
The tax payer is like an abused donkey.

adocholiday

If a party ever gets set up in this country that are serious about:

1. Actually giving a crap about the average joe worker in Ireland.
2. Forcing those who can work to work for their keep.
3. Reforming the public sector and making it efficient instead of a massive black hole that money disappears into.
4. Being proactive and progressive on things like transport and infrastructure.

They will have my vote forever more. There's something seriously wrong when the middle class of a country feels like the most disenfranchised group and FG, who got my vote in the last 2 elections, will not be getting a third.

shesty

Why do we have to "get something" in every budget?
I would rather not get anything for several budgets if it meant they might acrually fix the health service, provide decent public transport and the like (fat chance).
They don't know the effect that Brexit will have and they are not exactly living within their means as it is.This budget announcement is hardly surprising.

ittakestwo

Geuze wrote: »

Although the unemployment rate is low, employment is also low, not as high as other countries.

This is because we lead Europe in economic inactivity. We have the highest rate of VLWI.

VLWI = very low work intensity.

I did understand why we were so high until I saw it is measured out of people aged 0 to 59. Ireland's population is far younger than the rest of the EU. So we would have a higher rate in that population still in school and college compared to the rest of EU countries. People in college are not considered unemployed but or neither in the workforce.

We make up for it at the older ages as we have a less percentage of population retired but as the figures only go to age 59 this won't be taken account in that graph.

Also the figure for ireland dropped from 24% in 2011 to 17% in 2016 and I imagine it has dropped further today as unemployment has dropped in last 3 years again. I would we no longer lead it.

oholly121

CalamariFritti wrote: »

If you look across Europe we're one of the lowest income tax countries. Also this OP is rather weird. it has a big quote and then everyone including the OP rambles on about things that were absolutely not in that text.

I'm as left as they come and I disagree with a lot this government does most importantly that market umber alles mantra. However they have kept us on the straight, they conduct themselves well in the whole Brexit thing and with Brexit looming now is the time to be prudent. Not sure what they're supposed to be saying tbh.

You guys need to get over that petty my-neighbour-pays-40- a-week-for -the-same-house thing. If its that great why don't you give up your job and get yourself a 40-a-week house too?

Yes true

But in those other countires in Europe that have higher income taxes as us they generally get something back in return

Germany - Higher tax rate - subsides childcare, health , transport others
Sweden - Same Deal
France - Same Deal
UK - NHS
Norway - Same as above but much better cost of living
Hungary - Same again as above with more goodies thrown in if you get married and have kids etc

Ireland - Very high tax once you reach a certain income an income which really is very modest and does not justify taxing at 42% at that point

Then of course you dont get any help with anything like our other countries as listed above and you need to pay for mostly everything that relaly should come as part of your tax

Sorry your point really does not add up

oholly121

shesty wrote: »

Why do we have to "get something" in every budget?
I would rather not get anything for several budgets if it meant they might acrually fix the health service, provide decent public transport and the like (fat chance).
They don't know the effect that Brexit will have and they are not exactly living within their means as it is.This budget announcement is hardly surprising.

Why do we have to "get something" in every budget?

Because we pay the majority of taxes ?

_Kaiser_

shesty wrote: »

Why do we have to "get something" in every budget?
I would rather not get anything for several budgets if it meant they might acrually fix the health service, provide decent public transport and the like (fat chance).
They don't know the effect that Brexit will have and they are not exactly living within their means as it is.This budget announcement is hardly surprising.

The problem isn't that health and transport etc doesn't get enough investment. The issue is that that investment is squandered and mismanaged every time through incompetence, the wrong priorities, and the occasional dodgy dealings.

There is a serious problem in a country when the people who pay for everything don't get the benefits of their efforts, and fall further behind in a supposedly thriving economy of full employment

oholly121

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The problem isn't that health and transport etc doesn't get enough investment. The issue is that that investment is squandered and mismanaged every time through incompetence, the wrong priorities, and the occasional dodgy dealings.

There is a serious problem in a country when the people who pay for everything don't get the benefits of their efforts, and fall further behind in a supposedly thriving economy of full employment

Exactly this

We are the people who worked and contrabuted through the recession and continue to do so and yet are fogot time after time

lawred2

shesty wrote: »

Why do we have to "get something" in every budget?
I would rather not get anything for several budgets if it meant they might acrually fix the health service, provide decent public transport and the like (fat chance).
They don't know the effect that Brexit will have and they are not exactly living within their means as it is.This budget announcement is hardly surprising.

within that is the failed assumption that 'fixing' the health service requires ever increasing amounts of taxpayer's income

oholly121

lawred2 wrote: »

within that is the failed assumption that 'fixing' the health service requires ever increasing amounts of taxpayer's income

Health Service is beyond fixing needs to be scrapped and started from afresh

ittakestwo

The elephant in the room regarding the health service here is wages in health service. Do a comparison on how much it costs to run a hospital in the North compared to the South regarding wages and you will see why our health system is F**ked. We dont actually put a comparably low amount of tax money to our health service, its just wasted on outline wages. The taxpayer gets really bad value for what we put into it.

But no politician is going to go out and say our health service is workers are overpaid because then there will be strikes in area you rather there wasn't.

is_that_so

Geuze wrote: »

Although the unemployment rate is low, employment is also low, not as high as other countries.

This is because we lead Europe in economic inactivity. We have the highest rate of VLWI.

VLWI = very low work intensity.

There are many sets of stats that make no difference to the real world in any way and I'm afraid this seems to be one of them. How does one go about developing anything around VLWI and what actual real world benefit would there be in that?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

is_that_so wrote: »

There are many sets of stats that make no difference to the real world in any way and I'm afraid this seems to be one of them. How does one go about developing anything around VLWI and what actual real world benefit would there be in that?

It means a lot of people have dropped out of the workforce. How to fix it? No idea.

is_that_so

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It means a lot of people have dropped out of the workforce. How to fix it? No idea.

0-59 is a daft age range as about 33% of our population are between 0 and 24.

The actual definition they use seems to be.

The indicator persons living in households with very low work intensity is defined as the number of persons living in a household where the members of working age worked less than 20 % of their total potential during the previous 12 months.

lawred2

is_that_so wrote: »

0-59 is a daft age range as about 33% of our population are between 0 and 24.

The actual definition they use seems to be.

utterly ridiculous... like something from Victorian Britain where the kids were down the mines

ittakestwo

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It means a lot of people have dropped out of the workforce. How to fix it? No idea.

It does not mean that. A lot of people might have never been in the workforce because of their age... the graph is measuring people aged 0 to 59.

If you are not comparing the counties demographics of population as well then it's a pointless graph.

For example youth dependency rate in Ireland was 33% in 2015. Youth dependency rate in Germany was 19% in 2015. Think these might be altering the graph a bit??

lola85

ittakestwo wrote: »

The elephant in the room regarding the health service here is wages in health service. Do a comparison on how much it costs to run a hospital in the North compared to the South regarding wages and you will see why our health system is F**ked. We dont actually put a comparably low amount of tax money to our health service, its just wasted on outline wages. The taxpayer gets really bad value for what we put into it.

But no politician is going to go out and say our health service is workers are overpaid because then there will be strikes in area you rather there wasn't.

Well the government tried to stand firm with the nurses and all we had was public outrage and people beeping their horns.

Oh and Facebook pics with support the nurses across them.

Little did they know they are one of the best paid in the EU

NIMAN

lola85 wrote: »

Well the government tried to stand firm with the nurses and all we had was public outrage and people beeping their horns.

Oh and Facebook pics with support the nurses across them.

Little did they know they are one of the best paid in the EU

Unfortunately we live in a country where the majority think everyone should get whatever terms and conditions they ask for, whatever wage increase they ask for, a house where they want it, and taxes reduced.

ittakestwo

ittakestwo wrote: »

The elephant in the room regarding the health service here is wages in health service. Do a comparison on how much it costs to run a hospital in the North compared to the South regarding wages and you will see why our health system is F**ked. We dont actually put a comparably low amount of tax money to our health service, its just wasted on outline wages. The taxpayer gets really bad value for what we put into it.

But no politician is going to go out and say our health service is workers are overpaid because then there will be strikes in area you rather there wasn't.

whats the international comparison between the salary in your job and the NI counterpart

or an average over EU or whatever group you think is fair to compare with in a similar fashion.

jimmycrackcorm

Assetbacked wrote: »

FG have abandoned the tax-paying working people they made a load of promises to prior to and during their stint in government. "Abolish the USC" was their election slogan which had a big impact on the tax-paying workers who voted for them in the last election.

I can't understand why people don't grasp the very simple fact that unless the party you vote for is actually in the majority then they can't keep what they promised. Labour voters hammered them for being unable to fulfill their promises dinky because they were the minority coalition partner so clearly they couldn't deliver.

In the case of USC reductions, you can put a solid blame on FF who don't want USC reductions. Our PR system is good in allowing many viewpoints to contribute to what happens e.g. water charges being dropped, but without a clear majority, don't expect pussies to be kept.

ittakestwo

In Ireland there is currently a 42% premium of average public pay over average private sector pay. In the UK and the rest of EU its about a 10%. Why is/should Ireland different regarding this?

Its obvious that the PS are getting a great deal here compared with the UK/EU even taking into account pay in Ireland might be overall higher here in both private and public sector. But this 42% premium in PS wages is coming at a cost of having a ****e health care system here despite Ireland putting in a comparable similar of its tax take as the UK and other EU counties towards its healthcare.

road_high

westcork67 wrote: »

If you are a hard working private sector PAYE worker in this country earning over €40k there is no political party from an economic perspective that deserves your vote - the rush to the left by our politicians to appease the socialist media in this country is scary - spend what we don't have and to hell with the consequences! Where have we seen this happen before?!?!?!

Fine Gael and Varadkar have been such a disappointment on this - I would have voted for them believing that they wanted to incentivise work and get to grips with the significant portion of the population who contribute little more to the country than a sense of entitlement - I am left with a protest vote option next election at this point

The thing is if they’d done as promised and rightly rewarded working people then FG would have been richly rewarded at the ballot box. But they’re too worried about appeasing the whining left and do gooder media to notice. Keep giving the sponger wing of society it becomes a never ending flow of demands

ittakestwo

road_high wrote: »

The thing is if they’d done as promised and rightly rewarded working people then FG would have been richly rewarded at the ballot box. But they’re too worried about appeasing the whining left and do gooder media to notice. Keep giving the sponger wing of society it becomes a never ending flow of demands

This has been said alot on this tread. In 2009 the dole was €203 a week. It is now also €203 week in 2019. I dont see how people are claiming FG who have been in since 2011 have been giving the ''sponger'' wing of society a lot since they came in.

They are keeping things tight. There is a boom on at the moment and they seem to be doing something that no Irish government has ever done before during a boom and not run pro cynical budgets with goodies for all, and them have the goodies taken all back when the eventual down turn comes.