no income tax cuts from irelands "right wing" party

Idbatterim

ittakestwo wrote: »

This has been said alot on this tread. In 2009 the dole was €203 a week. It is now also €203 week in 2019. I dont see how people are claiming FG who have been in since 2011 have been giving the ''sponger'' wing of society a lot since they came in.

They are keeping things tight. There is a boom on at the moment and they seem to be doing something that no Irish government has ever done before during a boom and not run pro cynical budgets with goodies for all, and them have the goodies taken all back when the eventual down turn comes.

no, they are so spinless and incompetent, is the reason they cant / wont reward workers! despite all their talk, only seven hundred million is available to spend, during the previous boom, I can imagine them sending seven billion up in smoke each budget, double digit welfare increases to an already scandalous rate. Meanwhile, there are boil notices around the country, disgraceful infrastructure and other areas are totally starved of funding. Total banana replublic! If the **** hits the fan again, I cant wait for the excuses to be trotted out from that Varadkar moron etc, except he'll be sending his generals out , if ever there has been a failure of a taoiseach, he tops the lot!

rossie1977

Idbatterim wrote: »

no, they are so spinless and incompetent, is the reason they cant / wont reward workers! despite all their talk, only seven hundred million is available to spend, during the previous boom, I can imagine them sending seven billion up in smoke each budget, double digit welfare increases to an already scandalous rate. Meanwhile, there are boil notices around the country, disgraceful infrastructure and other areas are totally starved of funding. Total banana replublic! If the **** hits the fan again, I cant wait for the excuses to be trotted out from that Varadkar moron etc, except he'll be sending his generals out , if ever there has been a failure of a taoiseach, he tops the lot!

Was FGs manifesto to get people back to work, cut the budget deficit and grow the economy or was it to highly reward lower end non management workers?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

is_that_so wrote: »

0-59 is a daft age range as about 33% of our population are between 0 and 24.

The actual definition they use seems to be.

?

The specifically exclude young people for this figure. It’s the post 59s that is the real fudge.

From the post on the issue.

working-age person is a person aged 18-59 years, with the exclusion of students in the age group between 18 and 24 years.

ittakestwo

Idbatterim wrote: »

no, they are so spinless and incompetent, is the reason they cant / wont reward workers! despite all their talk, only seven hundred million is available to spend, during the previous boom, I can imagine them sending seven billion up in smoke each budget, double digit welfare increases to an already scandalous rate. Meanwhile, there are boil notices around the country, disgraceful infrastructure and other areas are totally starved of funding. Total banana replublic! If the **** hits the fan again, I cant wait for the excuses to be trotted out from that Varadkar moron etc, except he'll be sending his generals out , if ever there has been a failure of a taoiseach, he tops the lot!

''Wont reward workers''... This means you want tax cuts?

''Disgraceful infrastructure and others areas are totally starved of funding''... This means you want the capital budget increased?

So in a boom which we are currently in you want the government to cut taxs and increase capital spending..... Did you learn anything from the last boom and bust? Your asking for trouble by doing that. We have been barley been running a balanced budget over the last few years and our national debt hangover from the recession is still huge. Why would you want to mess it up now.



And it is also bull**** saying people on the welfare are getting big increase at the moment. As pointed out the dole has not risen in the last 10 years. Is the government planning on annual double digit increase in welfare now??? that's news to me

is_that_so

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

?

The specifically exclude young people for this figure. It’s the post 59s that is the real fudge.

From the post on the issue.

working-age person is a person aged 18-59 years, with the exclusion of students in the age group between 18 and 24 years.

When there's so much discussion about its purported usefulness and methodology it's pretty safe to conclude it doesn't have very much!

drunkmonkey

Carbon tax might not happen, a green shoot in a sea of grey...

Any Budget increases to carbon tax will be gradual, says Finance Minister

He said:
“If we do decide to make a change in carbon taxation in Budget 2020,
that revenue will then be used in a way to either
help people cope with the change they have to make to deal with climate change and changing their behaviour,

or we will use it in investing in the kinds of funds, the kinds of plans that are helpful for families and for businesses making a change.

I wouldn't be a fan of either plan.

tayto lover

ittakestwo wrote: »

''Wont reward workers''... This means you want tax cuts?

''Disgraceful infrastructure and others areas are totally starved of funding''... This means you want the capital budget increased?

So in a boom which we are currently in you want the government to cut taxs and increase capital spending..... Did you learn anything from the last boom and bust? Your asking for trouble by doing that. We have been barley been running a balanced budget over the last few years and our national debt hangover from the recession is still huge. Why would you want to mess it up now.



And it is also bull**** saying people on the welfare are getting big increase at the moment. As pointed out the dole has not risen in the last 10 years. Is the government planning on annual double digit increase in welfare now??? that's news to me

So what was all the guff from Leo about then when he spoke about rewarding the lad who gets up early in the morning to go to work? What was all that rubbish about?
Seems to me like they’re making it up as they go along.

Always Tired

This is all you ever post about OP, how everyone but you gets an extra fiver a week. The dole is still lower now than it was in 2006 after having been cut steeply during the recession. I remember because I moved back that year, it was over the 203 it is at now, closer to 210.

weldoninhio

Always Tired wrote: »

This is all you ever post about OP, how everyone but you gets an extra fiver a week. The dole is still lower now than it was in 2006 after having been cut steeply during the recession. I remember because I moved back that year, it was over the 203 it is at now, closer to 210.

€203 is too much, €210 is too much. The dole should be €120-150 max, and that should be halved after 6 months.

El_Bee

Idbatterim wrote: »

I assume FG think they will lose votes from the likes of Margaret Ca$h if they dont continually prop up the outrageous welfare state, paid by the working poor who are hit by a marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent!

It amazes me how they/we think those kind of people actually go out and vote.

_Kaiser_

weldoninhio wrote: »

€203 is too much, €210 is too much. The dole should be €120-150 max, and that should be halved after 6 months.

Well that's just idiotic. How do you expect grown adults with bills and maybe a family to survive on 120-150 a week then? Not everyone can go live with mammy :rolleyes:

FFS there are people on 50k struggling to get through a month between rent, commuting, childcare and the high cost of living and never ending series of charges for stuff that formerly came out of general taxation.

If you're going to make suggestions then at least try and be somewhat realistic.

ELM327

Always Tired wrote: »

This is all you ever post about OP, how everyone but you gets an extra fiver a week. The dole is still lower now than it was in 2006 after having been cut steeply during the recession. I remember because I moved back that year, it was over the 203 it is at now, closer to 210.

204.30 was the max, it was in 2009

ThunbergsAreGo

ittakestwo wrote: »

This has been said alot on this tread. In 2009 the dole was €203 a week. It is now also €203 week in 2019. I dont see how people are claiming FG who have been in since 2011 have been giving the ''sponger'' wing of society a lot since they came in.

They are keeping things tight. There is a boom on at the moment and they seem to be doing something that no Irish government has ever done before during a boom and not run pro cynical budgets with goodies for all, and them have the goodies taken all back when the eventual down turn comes.

...and those working are paying more tax than they did in 2009 - so those getting paid the same amount between 2009 and 2019 likely get less then they did in 2009.

They are a shambles who blame everything and anything instead of accepting accountability for their actions. "it wasnt me...it was FF/Brexit/the economy etc" all while we keep our "temporary" USC in place.

Leo doesnt even need to keep his obviously unattainable promise of - Quote - “This is for the many, not the few,” said a source. “Around 920,000 taxpayers will benefit from increasing the standard rate cut off to €50,000 over five years.”

Just remove the USC - as you said we are in a boom at the moment - if its not removed now when will it ever be

ELM327

weldoninhio wrote: »

€203 is too much, €210 is too much. The dole should be €120-150 max, and that should be halved after 6 months.

Agree with this
Make it 300€for first 6 months (or 66% of prior salary, whichever is higher) then reduce to €150 a week after that.

facehugger99

naughtb4 wrote: »

Just remove the USC - as you said we are in a boom at the moment - if its not removed now when will it ever be

Cutting taxes in a boom is the exact opposite of what we should be doing.

We should be raising taxes in a boom to take the heat out of the economy and cutting them during a recession to stimulate economic activity.

Of course most Governments do the opposite as they're motivated more by populism than prudence.

Assetbacked

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Well that's just idiotic. How do you expect grown adults with bills and maybe a family to survive on 120-150 a week then? Not everyone can go live with mammy

FFS there are people on 50k struggling to get through a month between rent, commuting, childcare and the high cost of living and never ending series of charges for stuff that formerly came out of general taxation.

If you're going to make suggestions then at least try and be somewhat realistic.

By getting a job they can better themselves.

Assetbacked

naughtb4 wrote: »

...and those working are paying more tax than they did in 2009 - so those getting paid the same amount between 2009 and 2019 likely get less then they did in 2009.

They are a shambles who blame everything and anything instead of accepting accountability for their actions. "it wasnt me...it was FF/Brexit/the economy etc" all while we keep our "temporary" USC in place.

Leo doesnt even need to keep his obviously unattainable promise of - Quote - “This is for the many, not the few,” said a source. “Around 920,000 taxpayers will benefit from increasing the standard rate cut off to €50,000 over five years.”

Just remove the USC - as you said we are in a boom at the moment - if its not removed now when will it ever be

It's remarkable isn't it? So much wealth is pumped into property with f-all tax being extracted back into the economy as prices rise via property taxes. In addition, MNCs and institutional investors put a massive strain on infrastructure with their activities but contribute barely anything back in taxes (except for, durr hurr, "jobs" - FG's only policy). An more level playing field with respect to contributing to society is all the ordinary working, law-abiding population want and FG are not the party to deliver it.

facehugger99

Assetbacked wrote: »

It's remarkable isn't it? So much wealth is pumped into property with f-all tax being extracted back into the economy as prices rise via property taxes. In addition, MNCs and institutional investors put a massive strain on infrastructure with their activities but contribute barely anything back in taxes (except for, durr hurr, "jobs" - FG's only policy). An more level playing field with respect to contributing to society is all the ordinary working, law-abiding population want and FG are not the party to deliver it.

The MNC's are probably the primary reason we don't look like Greece without the sunshine. Foreign MNC's pay 80% of our corporation tax - almost 15% of our total tax take - it's not insignificant, nor are the income taxes arising from the employment they provide - almost 50% of all salary taxes are from MNC employees!.

I would be wary of introducing tax-measures that make Ireland a less attractive place for them to invest. While there is no doubt they are currently putting a significant strain on property and transportation, we were very lucky to have them here during the 2009 - 2013 period when things were at their worst.

ThunbergsAreGo

facehugger99 wrote: »

Cutting taxes in a boom is the exact opposite of what we should be doing.

We should be raising taxes in a boom to take the heat out of the economy and cutting them during a recession to stimulate economic activity.

Of course most Governments do the opposite as they're motivated more by populism than prudence.

The add it into the tax base and stop treating it like some temporary "charge" we have to pay?

_Kaiser_

Assetbacked wrote: »

By getting a job they can better themselves.

I agree that long term dole recipients who make no actual effort to find employment should be identified and sanctioned - but then those people are also generally in the antisocial troublemaker demographic and so the Welfare don't bother them very much. Even if they did lose their dole, they'd probably resort to theft or drugs to make up for it.

The only people who would be impacted by this idea would be the genuine recipients who are trying to get out of the situation (you may have heard of the welfare trap?).

I find that such reactionary nonsense is usually spouted by those who would have no idea of how to survive on the dole themselves though. Believe me, as someone who spent a year on it after being made redundant in the recession, it's nowhere near the easy street lifestyle for most that some people here imagine it is.

facehugger99

naughtb4 wrote: »

The add it into the tax base and stop treating it like some temporary "charge" we have to pay?

It's already in the tax base and it's about as temporary as VRT.

downtheroad

naughtb4 wrote: »

...and those working are paying more tax than they did in 2009 - so those getting paid the same amount between 2009 and 2019 likely get less then they did in 2009.

They are a shambles who blame everything and anything instead of accepting accountability for their actions. "it wasnt me...it was FF/Brexit/the economy etc" all while we keep our "temporary" USC in place.

Leo doesnt even need to keep his obviously unattainable promise of - Quote - “This is for the many, not the few,” said a source. “Around 920,000 taxpayers will benefit from increasing the standard rate cut off to €50,000 over five years.”

Just remove the USC - as you said we are in a boom at the moment - if its not removed now when will it ever be

The USC is a progressive tax, far more workers pay it than income tax.

_Kaiser_

downtheroad wrote: »

The USC is a progressive tax, far more workers pay it than income tax.

All you need to do there is reform the existing income tax system so that everyone pays SOMETHING (even if it's only a fiver a week at the lower end) and the load is spread more evenly and sustainably.

Part of the reason for all the separate charges these days is because there's not enough coming in centrally anymore. FG trying to privatise everything is another factor of course.

Captcha

Our higher rate of tax from a low level is a punishment for doing well.

Our social welfare system is not sustainable, if you lose your job you should get 2/3 of what you earned in social welfare for up to 3 months, dropping to 1/3 (or the lowest universal social welfare) after that for the subsequent 3 months, finally dropping to the universal after that, the universal should be a lot lower that it is today.

ittakestwo

weldoninhio wrote: »

€203 is too much, €210 is too much. The dole should be €120-150 max, and that should be halved after 6 months.

Realistically no government is going to cut social welfare now that we no longer need austerity budgets. The best you can hope for is that they dont start to increase it. Same goes with PS pay.

In the period from 2001 to 2009 The dole went from €98 to €203 pw. Now it's still €203 10 years later.

It was previous governments got us to these levels. Same situation for PS pay.

ThunbergsAreGo

Hows this one working out

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/688462286307086336

tayto lover

naughtb4 wrote: »

Hows this one working out

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/688462286307086336

Just the usual lies from Leo.
He’d be better keeping his mouth shut but he can’t seem to help himself.

Assetbacked

facehugger99 wrote: »

The MNC's are probably the primary reason we don't look like Greece without the sunshine. Foreign MNC's pay 80% of our corporation tax - almost 15% of our total tax take - it's not insignificant, nor are the income taxes arising from the employment they provide - almost 50% of all salary taxes are from MNC employees!.

I would be wary of introducing tax-measures that make Ireland a less attractive place for them to invest. While there is no doubt they are currently putting a significant strain on property and transportation, we were very lucky to have them here during the 2009 - 2013 period when things were at their worst.

I don't agree with this assessment. Corporation tax receipts are far lower than they should be given the effective rate for the largest MNCs is far lower than the headline 12.5% rate. By iterating statistics about how reliant we are on the receipts in order to justify not touching the MNCs, this creates further dependence. In addition, we are not talking about bringing in drastic measures like taxing them at 50% - that punishment is reserved for the income tax-paying proles! Just certain measures to level the playing field and stop giving too much power and free reign to faceless corporations.

facehugger99

Assetbacked wrote: »

ust certain measures to level the playing field and stop giving too much power and free reign to faceless corporations.

You can call it 'levelling the playing field' but it amounts to making Ireland a less attractive investment location.

Unless you know what the likely effects of any changes to the Corporation taxes regime, it's a wildly dangerous policy to propose. I'm sure Macron would be delighted.

Our ability to attract MNC investment is the envy of Europe.

I do however agree that we should not become over-dependent on that particular sector and I'd like to see Government introduce more measures to stimulate our indigenous small and medium business sector.

Captcha

Captcha wrote: »

Our social welfare system is not sustainable, if you lose your job you should get 2/3 of what you earned in social welfare for up to 3 months, dropping to 1/3 (or the lowest universal social welfare) after that for the subsequent 3 months, finally dropping to the universal after that, the universal should be a lot lower that it is today.

Source for this?

I have seen what you describe in France but not here.

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/bud19s1.aspx