RTE from Clermont Cairn

Nitemare1566

Good afternoon all ...

I'd like to ask what Diplexer I will need after the recent frequency changes to both Clermont Cairn and Divis?

Currently I have an aerial each for Divis (local) and for Clermont Cairn (distant). The CC aerial is filtered and then amplfied currently for Group C/D transmissions which was sufficient prior to September 4th.
I have now obtained a Group B filter and amplifier which will replace my current set-up to allow for NEW CC reception on 42 & 45.

However, I think I'll also need a new diplexer ... currently I have a Fringe Electronics K-CD-K Special 50/52 unit. This combines Channels 21 – 50 with Channels 52 – 68 with Through power on the K leg.

Will i need to change this diplexer too? And if so to what??

I believe a diplexer such as A+37 TO E Thru E (which Combines Channels 21 – 37 with Channels 40 – 68 with Through power on E leg) may be required??

Thanks and hope you can assist me??

SRB

The problem is COM 7 and 8 are going to move (again) to 52 and 56, sometime after CC comes off them in March. To be able to receive those muxes, you'll need to split the Divis output and send one leg to one diplexer, which you can combine with the CC channels and then a second diplexer to combine that output with the second leg of the Divis output.
On the other hand the lifespan of those muxes is anyone's guess, once the simulcasting of SD ends, the channels on 7 and 8 will more than likely be carried elsewhere.

Digifriendly

Interesting that I have been retuning TVs in my area (this is not my job but because I have a very basic knowledge of digital TVs/STBs and PVRS and have offered to help elderly people who can't retune) I have discovered that those like myself who have older aerial systems and presumably older diplexers are struggling to receive Freeview C51 and C60 while those with newer systems are bringing in both theses multiplexes. I hasten to add that these are all homes receiving both Freeview (Divis) and Saorview (Clermont Carn). Is there a difference between older and newer diplexers I wonder? My system was installed in 2002.

SRB

As the diplexer would have been installed to receive the channels from CC and 51 was usually the higher of the lower split, it will probably be fine, but 60 will be well within the CC aerial range and "filtered" out from the Divis side. Add to that some may have filters to avoid 4G interference, which may well cut ch 60 out.

Elvis Hammond

Nitemare1566 wrote: »

... I believe a diplexer such as A+37 TO E Thru E (which Combines Channels 21 – 37 with Channels 40 – 68 with Through power on E leg) may be required??

That's what you'll need, yes

Digifriendly wrote: »

... I have discovered that those like myself who have older aerial systems and presumably older diplexers are struggling to receive Freeview C51 and C60 while those with newer systems are bringing in both theses multiplexes. I hasten to add that these are all homes receiving both Freeview (Divis) and Saorview (Clermont Carn). Is there a difference between older and newer diplexers I wonder? My system was installed in 2002.

The 'newer' systems must just be getting COM 7 & 8 on the CC aerial. Either that or they don't have diplexers at all, just ordinary combiner/splitters.

Nitemare1566

Elvis Hammond wrote: »

That's what you'll need, yes

Hi yes I'm thinking this is what I'll need too? Just wanted it confirmed before sourcing one ... personally I use Fringe Electronics for my masthead stuff and as they do so many different diplexers I wanted to be sure I was on the right track!

I know where I can get one (I hope) so I'll ring them tomorrow.

Thanks Elvis.

Digifriendly

Elvis Hammond wrote: »

That's what you'll need, yes




The 'newer' systems must just be getting COM 7 & 8 on the CC aerial. Either that or they don't have diplexers at all, just ordinary combiner/splitters.

Sorry for my complete lack of knowledge on these matters but why would a combiner/splitter be used rather than a diplexer?
Also concerning post #4 above afaik 4G filters are not required for most if not all of N. Ireland so this should not be a problem.
I have also retuned a TV this evening for an elderly man whose house is in a very favourable position to receive Divis and CC and he has lost C51 C60 and also strangely C36 which is the new multiplex now carrying the local TV channel from Belfast (was C30 before).

SRB

When my local 4G masts went live, I had to fit a filter and for most of my family too. (they were supplied free of charge though).

Elvis Hammond

Digifriendly wrote: »

Sorry for my complete lack of knowledge on these matters but why would a combiner/splitter be used rather than a diplexer?

I was just making a point about reception on the 'wrong' aerial: combiner/splitter wouldn't be used for this purpose.

Digifriendly wrote: »

I have also retuned a TV this evening for an elderly man whose house is in a very favourable position to receive Divis and CC and he has lost C51 C60 and also strangely C36 which is the new multiplex now carrying the local TV channel from Belfast (was C30 before).

Nothing strange, more than likely just cut out by the diplexer again.

Nitemare1566

Just to be clear I receive ALL of Divis ... inclunding the new CH's 51 & 60 with no issues.

It's the newer CH's from Clermont Cairn (42 & 45) that I need to retune to and then diplex into my Divis feed.

I'll enquire today about the A+37 to E thru E diplexer from Fringe Electronics to see if that will be sufficient for my set-up.

Bummer1234

SRB wrote: »

When my local 4G masts went live, I had to fit a filter and for most of my family too. (they were supplied free of charge though).

Mind me asking what filter you got?

SRB

Telves 4G LTE filter, it's at800 branded.

SRB

Telves 4G LTE filter, it's at800 branded.

Souriau

Is Com 7 & Com 8 going to be switch off sometime between 2020 and 2022?
Can anyone confirm this.


S

Digifriendly

Souriau wrote: »

Is Com 7 & Com 8 going to be switch off sometime between 2020 and 2022?
Can anyone confirm this.


S

AFAIK no final decision has been taken on this yet.

Rick_

The licence for them only lasts until 2022. It is widely believed they will be switched off after this and the channels on them will by this time fit on the standard 6 MUX's and some of the HD channels may replace their SD counterparts.

The Cush

Souriau wrote: »

Is Com 7 & Com 8 going to be switch off sometime between 2020 and 2022?
Can anyone confirm this.

We discussed this in the other thread last year - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107265306#post107265306

Basically COM7/8 sit in the duplex centre gap of the 700MHz band which is to be auctioned off and made available to MNOs from May 1st 2020 but if they are not ready to launch services the interim muxes can continue until such time as the operators are ready to launch.

Ofcom

We will consider responses to our proposals (18 Dec 2018) for the award of the 700 MHz and 3.6-3.8 GHz spectrum bands, including incentives to improve mobile overage in rural areas. We will conclude with a decision on how to proceed with the award and set this out in a Statement, with a view to completing the award by Spring 2020.

Statement published Q3 2019/20
Auction applications c. Dec 2019

Nitemare1566

UPDATE

Managed to source a Fringe Diplexer ...

Got the A+37 to E thru E model and along with my Group B Filter and Amp for my Clermont Cairn aerial I fitted this to my system.

Result ... Divis is still providing me with ALL frequencies (21 - 60, though 60 is not as strong as before) and Clermont Cairn is now providing me with 42 & 45 (and strangely today 52!). I also noticed that Black Mtn is providing me with reception through my Divis aerial which it never did before (weird??).

So all good ... Divis still strong across all Groups (60 lower but receiving) and Clermont Cairn NEW frequencies are now strong too!

Hope this helps others?

SRB

Interesting you are still receiving Com 8 - it has to be coming in via the CC aerial. Unfortunately no chance of me receiving it via mine, so I'll either go for CC direct to the TV and leave TV Saorview only with Divis aerial feeding the YouView box or invest in a two output masthead for Divis, as I mentioned earlier.

Nitemare1566 wrote: »

UPDATE

Managed to source a Fringe Diplexer ...

Got the A+37 to E thru E model and along with my Group B Filter and Amp for my Clermont Cairn aerial I fitted this to my system.

Result ... Divis is still providing me with ALL frequencies (21 - 60, though 60 is not as strong as before) and Clermont Cairn is now providing me with 42 & 45 (and strangely today 52!). I also noticed that Black Mtn is providing me with reception through my Divis aerial which it never did before (weird??).

So all good ... Divis still strong across all Groups (60 lower but receiving) and Clermont Cairn NEW frequencies are now strong too!

Hope this helps others?

Nitemare1566

Yeah but be the CC aerial now filtered that's pulling in Divis 60??

I know COM 7 & 8 are tto move again in Q1 2020 ... (55 & 56 I think on Divis?)

SRB

52 and 56, once 2rn end the simulcasting.

The Cush

SRB wrote: »

52 and 56, once 2rn end the simulcasting.

No, 55 & 56, like all the other interim muxes in GB.

They will sit in the duplex gap which allows 5G services to launch in the FDD part of the spectrum when the MNOs are ready to do so, see the graphic I posted above.

SRB

That's what I get for walking and posting, I meant to say 55 and 56, once 2rn clear 52 and 56.

The Cush wrote: »

No, 55 & 56, like all the other interim muxes in GB.

They will sit in the duplex gap which allows 5G services to launch in the FDD part of the spectrum when the MNOs are ready to do so, see the graphic I posted above.

Elvis Hammond

Nitemare1566 wrote: »

Yeah but be the CC aerial now filtered that's pulling in Divis 60??

Is the filter between aerial & amplifier?

Nitemare1566

Elvis Hammond wrote: »

Is the filter between aerial & amplifier?

Yes ... filter, then amp then diplexer

TAFKAlawhec

The Cush wrote: »

No, 55 & 56, like all the other interim muxes in GB.

They will sit in the duplex gap which allows 5G services to launch in the FDD part of the spectrum when the MNOs are ready to do so, see the graphic I posted above.

Also worth noting that when COM7/8 move to E55 & E56 respectively, they will have a small ERP reduction from about 12.4kW (7) and 12.66kW (8) to about 8.9kW for both - could be important for those whose reception of both multiplexes are already somewhat borderline.

Elvis Hammond

Nitemare1566 wrote: »

Yes ... filter, then amp then diplexer

The logical conclusion I suppose is that you're getting a strong enough signal from Divis to defeat your filters, not that it's a bad thing in this case.

Nitemare1566

Elvis Hammond wrote: »

The logical conclusion I suppose is that you're getting a strong enough signal from Divis to defeat your filters, not that it's a bad thing in this case.

Yes being in Belfast means Divis is super strong and hence why I believe that 51 & 60 are still strong enough for me even with filter.

Digifriendly

Have been retuning TVs in my Church recently. It is c12 miles from Divis as crow flies. No diplexers as no RTE aerial installed. Both C51/C60 coming through with strong signal. Even Saorview is coming in via I presume the back of the aerial for Divis. Problem re Com 7/8 seems related to diplexers particularly older ones installed some time ago as in my case.

Elvis Hammond

Digifriendly wrote: »

... Problem re Com 7/8 seems related to diplexers particularly older ones installed some time ago as in my case.

Nothing 'seems' about it. The whole point of the things is to filter the 'split' legs, isolating them from each other, & lowering combining/splitting losses. And being older will only be a factor if signal is getting in due to probable lack of screening.

egal

My daughter lives on the Antrim coast and since the switch has only one mux. She thinks she is getting her signal from Larne. Any ideas?

Elvis Hammond

Larne is co-channel with Clermont on the 2 SD muxes.

Digifriendly

Elvis Hammond wrote: »

Larne is co-channel with Clermont on the 2 SD muxes.

What do you mean by SD muxes? Are there HD muxes? C42/45 and C52/56 from CC all carry a mixture of SD and HD channels.

Elvis Hammond

Digifriendly wrote: »

What do you mean by SD muxes?

Larne's SD muxes.

egal

So, what can she do? Incidentally, it's the ITV mux that she has, the BBC mux and the HD channels mux are gone.

Elvis Hammond

You have the Whitehead transmitter in that area too, using the same 3 chs. as Larne, though just looking at their locations & relative power & directivity, I'd think anywhere that has to use Larne (can't get Divis), wouldn't be troubled by it.

I've no on-the-ground knowledge of the area at all.

egal

Thanks, Elvis. What about Cushendun or Glenariffe?

Elvis Hammond

Glenariff is co-channel with Larne, but it's single-figure power, & well away & shielded by terrain.

If you put the postcode in question in here, what transmitters come up?

Digifriendly

Try for Scotland if you're on the Antrim coast and can't pick up Divis or local relays. There are aerials for Darvel and even Black Hill along the coast. If you have to have local programmes then Freesat may be best alternative.

egal

The coverage checker comes up with Divis, Larne, Bellair, Stranraer. It gives detail for Divis and Stranraer only, indicating poor reception throughout and, in fact, no reception at all for BBCA from Divis. Doesn't look too good.

Elvis Hammond

egal wrote: »

The coverage checker comes up with Divis, Larne, Bellair, Stranraer. It gives detail for Divis and Stranraer only, indicating poor reception throughout and, in fact, no reception at all for BBCA from Divis. Doesn't look too good.

Yeah, Bellair is another one that's now co-channel with Larne. Divis PSBs are co-channel with Cushendun. (Cushendun is actually fed from Larne, & its signal is picked up by Cushendall, which in turn is picked up by Glenariff.) Stranraer shares frequencies with Divis local mux & Black Mtn. NImux. (Plus it's only 50 Watts power & must be about 40 miles from that area.)

Digifriendly

There are no aerials for Stranraer afaik on the Co. Antrim coast but Darvel at higher power is probably a better bet. Unsure if Cambret Hill (receivable along North Down coast) is a possibility along Co. Antrim coast.

egal

Thanks, folks, for your interest and your suggestions. In the meantime, she has contacted the Freeview people and expects a visit from an engineer on 30th September. I'll let you know how she gets on.