51% of Northern Ireland voters back united Ireland

Galwayguy35

TuringBot47 wrote: »

That's great... but how much of the republic want those dysfunctional Nordies back?
United Ireland... .nice idea in principle... in practice a huge economic burden on top of our huge National debt, Brexit impacts and environmental issues which will hit us soon directly in prices.

Not willing to pay for a united Ireland.

This it it like, everyone is wondering how the folks up North would react to a UI but there is no discussion at all about how those of us this side of the border might feel about it.

IMO I think most people like the idea of the country being united but also realise the huge cost of it.

kneemos

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

This it it like, everyone is wondering how the folks up North would react to a UI but there is no discussion at all about how those of us this side of the border might feel about it.

IMO I think most people like the idea of the country being united but also realise the huge cost of it.

Why would we inflict the unionists on ourselves? Imagine having to deal with those people on any level.

I suppose it might be possible to have NI as a seperate state with some degree of autonomy,but part of a united Ireland.

JoZeb

kneemos wrote: »

Why would we inflict the unionists on ourselves? Imagine having to deal with those people on any level.

I suppose it might be possible to have NI as a seperate state with some degree of autonomy,but part of a united Ireland.

I love the way all unionists have just been wrapped up as ‘those people’ (seems the taxi man was on the right lines...) as if every unionist is the same and a problem when the hardliners get all the media attention and the shift to the alliance and moderate vote by unionists (and nationalists) gets overlooked.

Earlier someone made the point about the fear that is endemic in that community, and that fear is about being subsumed, about being second class in a new country, about being looked down on. Perhaps this comment goes some way to seeing why that fear exists.

Honestly. If it happens we’ll all have to live with each other. Perhaps seeing it less like contracting a disease and more like something to be worked at might go further than doing exactly what people fear.

Valhallapt

Sagats_knee wrote: »

The NHS is superior to the Irish health service. I’ve lived in both countries and had a lot of dealings with them both. The fact that it’s free is also a major benefit. No paying to see a GP in the UK. Much more high tech medical equipment available. NHS should be held up as something special. It’s free healthcare, with the best of modern health technology available for everyone, not many countries can boast this.

The gap has closed in recent years. While the point of entry to the hse is a disaster, once you are in the service is pretty good. High quality doctors new technology and medicines, Hse outperforms nhs interms of cancer survival rates.

Galwayguy35

JoZeb wrote: »

I love the way all unionists have just been wrapped up as ‘those people’ (seems the taxi man was on the right lines...) as if every unionist is the same and a problem when the hardliners get all the media attention and the shift to the alliance and moderate vote by unionists (and nationalists) gets overlooked.

Earlier someone made the point about the fear that is endemic in that community, and that fear is about being subsumed, about being second class in a new country, about being looked down on. Perhaps this comment goes some way to seeing why that fear exists.

Honestly. If it happens we’ll all have to live with each other. Perhaps seeing it less like contracting a disease and more like something to be worked at might go further than doing exactly what people fear.

Well the DUP is the largest Unionist party so that would suggest that their voters like what they have to say about remaining loyal fans of Lizzie Windsor.

JoZeb

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well the DUP is the largest Unionist party so that would suggest that their voters like what they have to say about remaining loyal fans of Lizzie Windsor.

This is such a simplistic response.

1. Many of the NI seats present very little choice to the voters. It’s vote Unionist or Nationalist or waste a vote. (This is changing as the Alliance vote becomes more significant)

2. Voting for the smaller party in marginal seats is afflicted by the them’uns and us’uns fear - if the Unionist (or Nationalist - this plays both ways) gets split then the seat is lost

3. The two main parties do nothing to support and reflect the other voting patterns, thus embedding the linear vote further.

The DUP might be the largest unionist party but make no mistake that means all unionists vote for them - the droves that vote for the unionists and alliance rarely win seats because of the above (and that in split communities like south Belfast it’s even more nuanced). There are plenty of DUP supporters - of course - but there are more moderate unionists than people give credit to.

Portsalon

kneemos wrote: »

Why would we inflict the unionists on ourselves? Imagine having to deal with those people on any level.

I suppose it might be possible to have NI as a seperate state with some degree of autonomy,but part of a united Ireland.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the vast majority of both Unionists and Republicans, it's the ~5% pure scum at each end of the sectarian divide that I don't want to unite with.

Mongfinder General

JDigweed wrote: »

Good post there by JoZeb, it would have to be the creation of an entirely new state rather than the North slipping into the ways of the South.
New flag, anthem, government, health, education etc.
There's a million or so people that have a British identity and that would need to be protected and their fears listened to. I listened to a Stephen Nolan podcast where farmers and some unionists were afraid there would be a land grab or some sort of ethnic cleansing. You might laugh at this but it's a real concern for some.
Personally I think there so much to gain from a new Ireland for both sides.

Unionists are basically afraid of three things:
1. Loss of culture and identity
2. Retribution
3. Dispossession

And let's not kid ourselves. There are those out there amongst us who would seek retribution. They are a small minority thankfully and would garner little support. What I do like about loyalist and republican communities is that they take care of their own - you know who your neighbors are. The south of Ireland is undergoing huge change - there has been a steady flow of immigration for the past 20 years and I find that living in multi cultural Dublin is not as community friendly as you might think - I don't know most of my neighbors. So the addition of 1.5 million English speaking people is a huge plus to our economy. It's keeping a lid on the nut cases in the likes of portadown and east Belfast that could prove troublesome.

Mongfinder General

Portsalon wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the vast majority of both Unionists and Republicans, it's the ~5% pure scum at each end of the sectarian divide that I don't want to unite with.

Spot on.

Charles Babbage

Sagats_knee wrote: »

The NHS is superior to the Irish health service. I’ve lived in both countries and had a lot of dealings with them both. The fact that it’s free is also a major benefit. No paying to see a GP in the UK. Much more high tech medical equipment available. NHS should be held up as something special. It’s free healthcare, with the best of modern health technology available for everyone, not many countries can boast this.

Why then do men live a year and a half longer in the ROI than NI?
Why are outcomes for cancer better in the ROI?

Junkyard Tom

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

This it it like, everyone is wondering how the folks up North would react to a UI but there is no discussion at all about how those of us this side of the border might feel about it.

IMO I think most people like the idea of the country being united but also realise the huge cost of it.

It's funny how people think that there will be no consequences in the South if unification is rejected. The flag would no longer be appropriate, maybe even the official name 'Ireland' could be described as appropriated.

I shudder to think of the schism a no vote would cause here. We think Brexit is bad? A rejection of a UI in the 'Ireland' could be exponentially worse.

JDigweed

Portsalon wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the vast majority of both Unionists and Republicans, it's the ~5% pure scum at each end of the sectarian divide that I don't want to unite with.

Exactly. You can be certain during any debate on a new Ireland there will be sectarian elements threatening all sorts of chaos and disruption. We need to see through all that.

irishproduce

lawred2 wrote: »

Any transition arrangement would take a decade or more with the UK contributing towards it's share of liabilities and responsibilities.

Even after a transition period, any pensions accrued while in the United kingdom would be paid by the crown in perpetuity..

I get the feeling that you think Ireland would at the tick of a clock take over the running costs and liabilities of NI

That isn't how it works.

Anyone who can't see the ultimate benefits to this island of unification simply isn't trying hard enough.

And just like German reunification, the EU would be party to stumping up funding for decades to allow it to happen.

That said, I don't particularly want a united Ireland. I find the North to be like a huge council estate.

bilbot79

NIMAN wrote: »

Don't know why the NHS is held up as something special.

Its a mess, and in as much a state of chaos as our own health service.

Simply not true

tdf7187

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Said it before, will say it again..

This would be a disaster for the Republic which already has enough difficulties providing essential services, and has no apparent answer to the housing and rental problems or the increased costs of living generally.

Once the "yay we get to stay in the EU" and "yay we got the 6 counties back" euphoria wore off in the supporters of this idea, and the reality of increased taxes, poorer services (especially for those used to the NHS), and the inevitable security issues that would arise from those not on board set in, I think the reality wouldn't be quite as attractive as the fantasy.

This is just a lack of vision. The re-unification of the former West and East Germany had massively larger logistical problems and was successfully completed. Sure, there are still a few that hanker for the past, but hardly anyone wishes for the return of West and East Germany.

I am not disputing that there are massive issues, but they are far from insurmountable, plus there are massive economy of scale advantages associated with a potential (re)-unification.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I'm as Irish as they come, Roman Catholic, ancient Irish name and not a planters surname in sight on my family tree.

However I would fight tooth and nail against any sort of unification attempt. It would cause chaos in this country. From an economic , social and security standpoint. People here don't realise how strong groups like the UDA and UVF still are.


They'll go to war with us if this was ever considered and every location in the Republic would be considered a target. Our economy would nose dive and no central government would ever get a hand on it.


Let them live up their province, they're Britain 's problem not ours.

lawred2

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'm as Irish as they come, Roman Catholic, ancient Irish name and not a planters surname in sight on my family tree.

However I would fight tooth and nail against any sort of unification attempt. It would cause chaos in this country. From an economic , social and security standpoint. People here don't realise how strong groups like the UDA and UVF still are.


They'll go to war with us if this was ever considered and every location in the Republic would be considered a target. Our economy would nose dive and no central government would ever get a hand on it.


Let them live up their province, they're Britain 's problem not ours.

And the Irish in the North who think otherwise? Just forget about them because of a few thugs?

votecounts

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'm as Irish as they come, Roman Catholic, ancient Irish name and not a planters surname in sight on my family tree.

However I would fight tooth and nail against any sort of unification attempt. It would cause chaos in this country. From an economic , social and security standpoint. People here don't realise how strong groups like the UDA and UVF still are.


They'll go to war with us if this was ever considered and every location in the Republic would be considered a target. Our economy would nose dive and no central government would ever get a hand on it.


Let them live up their province, they're Britain 's problem not ours.

So let the terrorists win!!!

careless sherpa

irishproduce wrote: »

And just like German reunification, the EU would be party to stumping up funding for decades to allow it to happen.

That said, I don't particularly want a united Ireland. I find the North to be like a huge council estate.

Probably because you don't know anything about it then. It's not that far so maybe someday you should make the effort from the sprawling lough erne in fermanagh to the utterly breathtaking wilderness of the mournes and along the north antrim coast

circadian

irishproduce wrote: »

And just like German reunification, the EU would be party to stumping up funding for decades to allow it to happen.

That said, I don't particularly want a united Ireland. I find the North to be like a huge council estate.

A council estate. Where'd you go, Lurgan? The North has some wonderful architecture and scenery.

steddyeddy

lawred2 wrote: »

Any transition arrangement would take a decade or more with the UK contributing towards it's share of liabilities and responsibilities.

Even after a transition period, any pensions accrued while in the United kingdom would be paid by the crown in perpetuity..

I get the feeling that you think Ireland would at the tick of a clock take over the running costs and liabilities of NI

That isn't how it works.

Anyone who can't see the ultimate benefits to this island of unification simply isn't trying hard enough.

The worry is whether Britain could be trusted to pay its liabilities. It owes money to the EU and right now they're talking about not paying it.

Patrick2010

The only positive thing to come out of brexit is to show how stupid it is to believe a simple majority of one or two per cent is a mandate to change anything

Idbatterim

Look at the spineless scum running the country. A northern terrorist organisation could set off a black cat banger on a luas packed with five hundred people and that alone would finish any idea of a United ireland !

Charles Babbage

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'm as Irish as they come, Roman Catholic, ancient Irish name and not a planters surname in sight on my family tree.

Why then you wish other Irish people to be discriminated against because of where they live in Ireland?

Let them live up their province, they're Britain 's problem not ours.

And you think a NI with a nationalist majority kept in the UK against its will would be stable arrangement? Do you think that 26 county politics would not become dominated by this issue? It won't get better by pretending it is not there.

McMurphy

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'm as Irish as they come, Roman Catholic, ancient Irish name and not a planters surname in sight on my family tree.



However I would fight tooth and nail against any sort of unification attempt. It would cause chaos in this country. From an economic , social and security standpoint. People here don't realise how strong groups like the UDA and UVF still are.

You'd fight who tooth and nail? You mean if there's a referendum, you'd vote no? Stop with the chest beating please.

They'll go to war with us if this was ever considered and every location in the Republic would be considered a target. Our economy would nose dive and no central government would ever get a hand on it.


Let them live up their province, they're Britain 's problem not ours.

Please, let's get some context here.

Loyalists, loyal to the British crown would start targeting Irish locations and citizens because the British govt and it's security forces withdrew from here following a referendum?

What would be their aims? Do you think by targeting Irish locations and or its citizens would force the British to come back to the island of Ireland, and reoccupy six counties in the north east?

Please.

Junkyard Tom

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Do you think by targeting Irish locations and or its citizens would force the British to come back to the island of Ireland, and reoccupy six counties in the north east?

Please.

For years I've been asking people who present this 'parade of horribles' what unionist terrorism would hope to achieve and have never recieved anything approaching a cogent response.

At the very best they could probably carve out some UVF controlled cantons. They'd be welcome to them.

Junkyard Tom

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Do you think that 26 county politics would not become dominated by this issue? It won't get better by pretending it is not there.

As usual I don't think those who'd align themselves with unionists in the north gave any consideration to the implications of rejection of unification in the 26 counties.

I feel bad for them if they thought everything would return to how it was before - because that's almost certainly not how it would be - it could get very bitter with a battle for the legitimacy of a state that was never meant to be two thirds of Ireland.

In many ways a pro-UI outcome would be the least worst option for partitionists/unionists as they could probably slow the whole process down and keep everything largely as it is.

LoughNeagh2017

I would vote for a unified Ireland to annoy the unionists but I don't trust modern southern people, I don't like how liberal things are there these days but you can't discuss that here as you would get banned, you can only discuss things like that on underground areas of the internet as forums are a hive mind you see.

I will throw one comment out there though to get you thinking, how come the same people who are pro abortion are anti suicide? after all "my body, my choice?"

tdf7187

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

People here don't realise how strong groups like the UDA and UVF still are.

Holy drama queen alert, Batman. The above organisations consist of a few dozen coke snorting nutters, most of whom have been exiled to Scotland due to infighting in their own groups.

circadian

circadian wrote: »

A council estate. Where'd you go, Lurgan? The North has some wonderful architecture and scenery.

The Glens of Antrim are absolutely gorgeous. I saw my first red squirrels there (in Glenariff Forest Park), my first clachan (ancient Irish settlement pattern which once, long before bungalow blitz, was the norm across the Gaelic world) and to cap it off came across Layd cemetery for the gallowglass Mac Dónaill family outside Cushendall. I then drove down into Ballycastle and on the way in came across the late medieval Bonamargy Friary (Franciscan, of course!), where the hugely significant Somhairle buí Mac Dónaill (c. 1505-1590) himself is buried, before a boat trip to Rathlin Island, site of the notorious massacre of the entire Mac Dónaill clann (not merely the sept; about 600 people were murdered by John Norris and Francis Drake) in 1575.

The coastal route along the Glens, and by that I mean the small road right next to the coast which is not the official Coastal Route for buses/larger traffic, etc, is out of this world. It is, however, a terrible pity that the Glens of Antrim lack a world-class 4* or 5* hotel. Judging by the million or so Union Jacks and a hilarious roundabout with a massive crown carved into it when I was last in the Glens, Larne, Bushmills and Carrickfergus seem to have a ridiculous number of ambitionless, educationally bereft troglodytes who are allowed to prevent the emergence of the Glens, never mind their own towns, as a "go to" tourist destination in Ireland.