Principal Officer competition 2019

bobbysands81

hardybuck wrote: »

This is the regular old chestnut that pops up periodically.

They're different grades with very similar roles. Officials in the treasury Departments have held higher scales since before the foundation of the State AFAIK.

The 90s pay award probably refers to the higher scales in the line Departments, which brought about a situation where a certain % of staff in line Departments got awarded the higher scale without getting additional responsibilities or taking part in a competitive process. This creates obvious confusion regarding the two grades.

It’s completely disingenuous to claim that they’re two different grades!!! As an AP I can transfer into an AP Higher role in DPER or DoF.

Grey AP

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Coming it at PO I’d imagine would be insanely difficult.

Coming in from the private sector is certainly a different kind of challenge to stepping up from AP, in that you have all these systems and processes, including the political ones, to learn and work in. When I joined the CS, I was a late-ish entrant and had never worked in an office before (I was a teacher), so it was very daunting, even at entry level. However, I was (and you will be) surrounded by people who do know this stuff and who, by and large, are committed to making things work and supporting you as you learn the ropes. You also have a bunch of your own skills and experience that you are bringing to the post.

The best advice I have got on moving into a new role or on promotion is that no one arrives with perfect knowledge and, no matter what it seems like at the start, after three months you will have a fair idea of what around 60 % of the stuff coming over your desk is about, and you'll have plenty of support in the unit for the rest.

The second best piece of advice is don't forget to have fun along the way.

hardybuck

bobbysands81 wrote: »

It’s completely disingenuous to claim that they’re two different grades!!! As an AP I can transfer into an AP Higher role in DPER or DoF.

It's a factual statement, referenced by the separate sub competition to access the grade.

If you transfer to those Departments you'll presumably take part in a selection process too.

ThumbTaxed

hardybuck wrote: »

It's a factual statement, referenced by the separate sub competition to access the grade.

If you transfer to those Departments you'll presumably take part in a selection process too.

You are factually wrong. A division will have a quota of APs, they don't have a quota of AP1 and otherwise.

Equally, you wouldn't even know if someone is higher scale. Certainly isn't obvious in terms of ability or responsibility.

Fact.

bobbysands81

hardybuck wrote: »

It's a factual statement, referenced by the separate sub competition to access the grade.

If you transfer to those Departments you'll presumably take part in a selection process too.

No, if you transfer into DPER you automatically become an AP Higher scales.

compaq32

Hi I was placed 11 on OOM (in the recent batch). Presume it's safe to start prepping for an interview? Does anyone have a view as to how many will be placed on the panel and are all those on the panel likely to get a job? Thanks - coming from private sector so it's new to me.

hardybuck

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

You are factually wrong. A division will have a quota of APs, they don't have a quota of AP1 and otherwise.

Equally, you wouldn't even know if someone is higher scale. Certainly isn't obvious in terms of ability or responsibility.

Fact.

If you've read above you'll note my points where I've noted that such arrangements in some Departments have made a cod of the two grades and caused confusion.

I'm pleased to see recent open AP and PO competitions have addressed this by having separate processes and separate panels for AP1 and PO1.

hardybuck

bobbysands81 wrote: »

No, if you transfer into DPER you automatically become an AP Higher scales.

Might be worth checking into that.

People taken off recent open AP panels may have gotten an allowance while they worked there, but they weren't AP1. Many of them took part in the internal AP1 competition and didn't get on the panel - some made it and some didn't.

VillageIdiot71

compaq32 wrote: »

Hi I was placed 11 on OOM (in the recent batch). Presume it's safe to start prepping for an interview? Does anyone have a view as to how many will be placed on the panel and are all those on the panel likely to get a job? Thanks - coming from private sector so it's new to me.

I don't know specifically for this batch, but you'd usually expect about half the people getting through to the final round to get on the panel.

If appointments are at a similar volume to this year, there could be around fifty appointments next year. There's about a dozen left on the current panel, so I'd guess they could call about eighty people for interview to panel about forty.

That's all guesswork, but reflects how these things usually go.

Grey AP

compaq32 wrote: »

Hi I was placed 11 on OOM (in the recent batch). Presume it's safe to start prepping for an interview? Does anyone have a view as to how many will be placed on the panel and are all those on the panel likely to get a job? Thanks - coming from private sector so it's new to me.

As a very rough guide, usually about half those going to stage 2 go on to interview and about half of those interviewed get on a panel. However, PAS has shipped a bit of flak in the past for having panels that were not used up, so the final panel number here, given it will expire in Feb 2022, may be more like a third of those interviewed. I'd think a panel of about 50, if PAS starts appointing from it in April, would be realistic.

If you are 11 on the OOM from stage 2, I'd say you could be pretty confident that you'll get an interview.

Regularreggie

Contacted PAS. They expect to send out invites etc early next week with the panel to end in October.

bluegreenred

Thanks very much for the update! If the panel is up to October then I guess at least a new competition would be announced in March/April.

VillageIdiot71

VillageIdiot71 wrote: »

Just to say, got a reply from PAS today that suggests they've reached number 52 for Dublin appointments on the current panel.

I'd guess that's it for 2020......

Belated Happy New Year.

I believe the panel is now at 55.

everycloud

In case not seen, an interdepartmental competition for appointment to PO Higher (Departments of the Taoiseach, Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform) has been published on publicjobs.ie today.

The top 60 in Batch 1 of this competition are eligible to apply. Best of luck to those who can!

Regularreggie

Did anyone hear about interviews dates from PO batch 2? Am higher up on the list so not sure if I will be called and therefore know when invites are sent out.

froggiegirls

I messaged them yesterday and they said they would contact the candidates called to the next stage in a few days . I’m no.21 so hoping to be called but I have no idea (and they didn’t say) how many they are planning to call

Regularreggie wrote: »

Did anyone hear about interviews dates from PO batch 2? Am higher up on the list so not sure if I will be called and therefore know when invites are sent out.

mossy74

Does anyone know how long more this panel will remain in place? The existing Dublin panel is likely to be consumed soon and I'm assuming this is why more people have been called to interview but what about those people waiting for regional positions? How much longer is the panel likely to remain in place before a full new competition is run? Thanks.

Jessibelle

mossy74 wrote: »

Does anyone know how long more this panel will remain in place? The existing Dublin panel is likely to be consumed soon and I'm assuming this is why more people have been called to interview but what about those people waiting for regional positions? How much longer is the panel likely to remain in place before a full new competition is run? Thanks.

A colleague hopeful of being on a second panel told me any existing PO panels from this competition will lapse in October. Whether there's a new competition after that is contingent on demand, the budget etc.

Grey AP

Jessibelle wrote: »

A colleague hopeful of being on a second panel told me any existing PO panels from this competition will lapse in October. Whether there's a new competition after that is contingent on demand, the budget etc.

This comp (the 2019 PO competition) is due to run until February 2022. As the first panel from it will finish in about March, PAS is getting a second panel to get through to 2022. (This is not uncommon at AP or HEO, but it is very unusual to have a second PO panel from one comp.)

What usually happens is that PAS will start a new competition in September/October, in order to have a new panel ready to go when this competition ends in February, so if you get on the second panel from this comp you can probably expect it to last until February, unless it is exhausted before that. If that happens, though, I think a third panel would be very unlikely under this timeline.

Fingers crossed for everyone going into interviews. Getting PO is a very difficult step, so no matter what happens you've excelled to get to this point.

Jessibelle

Grey AP wrote: »

This comp (the 2019 PO competition) is due to run until February 2022. As the first panel from it will finish in about March, PAS is getting a second panel to get through to 2022. (This is not uncommon at AP or HEO, but it is very unusual to have a second PO panel from one comp.)

What usually happens is that PAS will start a new competition in September/October, in order to have a new panel ready to go when this competition ends in February, so if you get on the second panel from this comp you can probably expect it to last until February, unless it is exhausted before that. If that happens, though, I think a third panel would be very unlikely under this timeline.

Fingers crossed for everyone going into interviews. Getting PO is a very difficult step, so no matter what happens you've excelled to get to this point.

Thanks for clarifying ☺️

froggiegirls

Just got a message from pas giving date of interview. This will be the third stage and of you are successful at that interview you go through to the fourth stage which is a presentation. I assume that must be the last stage ??!!

Ravelleman

froggiegirls wrote: »

Just got a message from pas giving date of interview. This will be the third stage and of you are successful at that interview you go through to the fourth stage which is a presentation. I assume that must be the last stage ??!!

Seems like a resource-intensive approach. Not in the competition myself - any indication of what format the presentation will take?

froggiegirls

I did the PO in chapter house a few years ago and at that stage you did both on the same day . So essentially you were given a pack of info relating to a problem and asked to do a presentation on what you would do if You were the po in that area

Ravelleman wrote: »

Seems like a resource-intensive approach. Not in the competition myself - any indication of what format the presentation will take?

Regularreggie

Didnt get message. Am in the 90s. did they say how many they called for the interview?

froggiegirls

No they didn’t say . I was number 21

Regularreggie wrote: »

Didnt get message. Am in the 90s. did they say how many they called for the interview?

Bowiegal

froggiegirls wrote: »

Just got a message from pas giving date of interview. This will be the third stage and of you are successful at that interview you go through to the fourth stage which is a presentation. I assume that must be the last stage ??!!

They seem to have split Stage 3 into two stages (3& 4). Interview and presentation were the same day in Batch 1. May be down to availability but seems very resource intensive.

froggiegirls

Yes that seems to be the case. Could be due to the fact that the interview is via zoom rather than face to face

Bowiegal wrote: »

They seem to have split Stage 3 into two stages (3& 4). Interview and presentation were the same day in Batch 1. May be down to availability but seems very resource intensive.

ShellyMCD

froggiegirls wrote: »

Just got a message from pas giving date of interview. This will be the third stage and of you are successful at that interview you go through to the fourth stage which is a presentation. I assume that must be the last stage ??!!

You’d have to hope so!

sammysausages

Regularreggie wrote: »

Didnt get message. Am in the 90s. did they say how many they called for the interview?

Hey, I'm in the 50s and haven't heard either. Maybe they are just calling a small bunch this time around.

Regularreggie

Got an update from PAS that they've called 50 with the Panels to end in October.

terminatorX1

Regularreggie wrote: »

Got an update from PAS that they've called 50 with the Panels to end in October.

Thanks for the update, 90s here too. Hopefully they call another 50 after this batch

hardybuck

terminatorX1 wrote: »

Thanks for the update, 90s here too. Hopefully they call another 50 after this batch

Unlikely I'd say. 15-20 odd waiting to be placed from the panel, maybe another 15-20 to make it to a panel from the 50 they called would be my guess.

That should be plenty to get through the year when DPER, Finance and Taoiseach's will be drawing from the PO1 panel.

In addition, I'd say most Departments will probably run internal competitions before the next open competition is held to make sure the best internal candidates are kept.

Asimov2004

I know Revenue recently ran an internal PO competition and placed 16 on the panel. This is unlikely to affect anyone doing this comp though as Revenue don't normally fill vacancies through these open comps (they run specialist open competitions) but thought it would be useful info and seems to support Hardybuck's thinking.

Maybenever

hardybuck wrote: »

Unlikely I'd say. 15-20 odd waiting to be placed from the panel, maybe another 15-20 to make it to a panel from the 50 they called would be my guess.

That should be plenty to get through the year when DPER, Finance and Taoiseach's will be drawing from the PO1 panel.

In addition, I'd say most Departments will probably run internal competitions before the next open competition is held to make sure the best internal candidates are kept.

tbh it's a bit of a pain to go through all this and then only get a few months on the panel. Not that I will be upset if I make it. I just got burned on the last one, it expired when I appeared to be next. :mad:

Belfry2018

Hi, any news on who the board members are for Stage 3??

froggiegirls

I haven’t heard anything

Belfry2018 wrote: »

Hi, any news on who the board members are for Stage 3??

Belfry2018

froggiegirls wrote: »

I haven’t heard anything

Nothing on the information sent out from PAS, which is another strange addition! Thanks

froggiegirls

Board members have been announced

Grey AP

And panel one appears to be up to number 53 out of 65, so expect panel two to start in late March or April. Good luck to everyone being interviewed.

ShellyMCD

I got caught in a meeting today and couldn’t test the zoom platform with PAS. I have zoom on my laptop and assuming it will be ok. Did anyone encounter any difficulties?

froggiegirls

I didn’t have any difficulties. They basically told you how to use zoom,go into the waiting room and the panel will let you in when they’re ready. They said if the WiFi goes down for a minute or two the interview will be extended but if they is a big problem they will reschedule. If that happens we’re to ring them or email them and let them know.

Hope that helps ?

ShellyMCD wrote: »

I got caught in a meeting today and couldn’t test the zoom platform with PAS. I have zoom on my laptop and assuming it will be ok. Did anyone encounter any difficulties?

ShellyMCD

Thanks a million. Much appreciated

karlitob

froggiegirls wrote: »

Just got a message from pas giving date of interview. This will be the third stage and of you are successful at that interview you go through to the fourth stage which is a presentation. I assume that must be the last stage ??!!

Can I just check something - is stage 3 the presentation and stage 4 the interview, or the other way around?

karlitob

froggiegirls wrote: »

I didn’t have any difficulties. They basically told you how to use zoom,go into the waiting room and the panel will let you in when they’re ready. They said if the WiFi goes down for a minute or two the interview will be extended but if they is a big problem they will reschedule. If that happens we’re to ring them or email them and let them know.

Hope that helps ?

Can I ask how you got on, what they asked? Any tips on the structure of the presentation and how to prepare.

Thanks.

froggiegirls

Stage 3 is the interview

karlitob wrote: »

Can I just check something - is stage 3 the presentation and stage 4 the interview, or the other way around?

froggiegirls

All they were checking was that I could log in . It wasn’t the actual interview

quote="karlitob;116113325"]Can I ask how you got on, what they asked? Any tips on the structure of the presentation and how to prepare.

Thanks.[/quote]

karlitob

froggiegirls wrote: »

All they were checking was that I could log in . It wasn’t the actual interview

quote="karlitob;116113325"]Can I ask how you got on, what they asked? Any tips on the structure of the presentation and how to prepare.

Thanks.

[/quote]

Thanks. Best of luck.

froggiegirls

Is it tomorrow the interviews are starting ? Anyone know how many in total have been called ?

ShellyMCD

The interviews start tomorrow. Think they go on for the week so can’t be much more than 50 called.

Belfry2018

Best of luck everyone for Stage 3. ����