Principal Officer competition 2019

Grey AP

Tr1ckieD1ckie wrote: »

Guess we'll just have to be patient:)

See - you're thinking like a civil servant already.

Conovski

Not writing the resignation letter just yet!

Conovski

Desired region selection for panelists required by tomorrow

Tr1ckieD1ckie

Conovski wrote: »

Desired region selection for panelists required by tomorrow

Yep it's slightly confusingly worded- I read it that you should advise them if you do not want to be considered for Dublin roles but it also suggests to nominate two other locations?

Xofpod

Tr1ckieD1ckie wrote: »

Yep it's slightly confusingly worded- I read it that you should advise them if you do not want to be considered for Dublin roles but it also suggests to nominate two other locations?

Yeah, I take the main message to be the possibility of nominating up to two non-Dublin locations (although much less likely to arise) and the secondary message to be the option of ruling out Dublin-based positions and only being considered for the specified other locations if that's your preference.

Grey AP

I'll have to email them in the morning for some clarification. For instance, many Dublin-based candidates would be happy enough to go to Defence in Newbridge, or maybe Trim or Navan or anywhere in that radius, depending on where they live in Dublin, but does this count as outside Dublin?

Tr1ckieD1ckie

Grey AP wrote: »

I'll have to email them in the morning for some clarification. For instance, many Dublin-based candidates would be happy enough to go to Defence in Newbridge, or maybe Trim or Navan or anywhere in that radius, depending on where they live in Dublin, but does this count as outside Dublin?

Reply from PAS to my location preferences which might help to clarify things a bit

I have made note of your county choices outside of Dublin, in addition to Dublin.

So as I read it, you're eligible to be offered a post in Dublin unless you indicate you don't want to be considered for a post in Dublin.

And if you want to... you can indicate locations outside Dublin for which you are happy to be considered.

Reminder that you have to indicate your choices by cob today..

Tr1ckieD1ckie

Watched this presentation earlier and found it very informative...

It's a video of a seminar on preparing for the PO competition/ role run by AHCPS last year


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpBUWAI6mnQ&feature=youtu.be

Grey AP

And in very slowly breaking news - un petit oiseau has whispered that there may be another round of interviews in the autumn. If true, that would mean that they expect the panel to be done by then and that the panel is quite small, probably no more than seventy. I haven't heard of anyone beyond the sixties, but if anyone is higher than that, then it would be good to know. Also, it would tie in with AHCPS retirement stats, which would indicate about 70 placed this year.

(And just so no one is startled, this is a two year panel, so there wouldn't be new interviews until it is exhausted or the two years are up, whichever comes first - this would just show that PAS expects this panel to be finished this year.)

Asimov2004

Grey AP that's really interesting news if it proves correct. I'm mid 30's on OoM and had been presuming it could be this time next year before I hear anything. I would expect a lot of people are waiting until after the next pay restoration increase in October and then there may be a significant number of retirements. Maybe PAS are just getting ready in case this happens?

Tr1ckieD1ckie

Very Interesting GreyAP/Asimov..

Should we be worried about whether it may take some time for a new government to be elected... and what impact might this happen on Departmental plans to recruit/ fill roles?

Grey AP

Tr1ckieD1ckie wrote: »

Very Interesting GreyAP/Asimov..

Should we be worried about whether it may take some time for a new government to be elected... and what impact might this happen on Departmental plans to recruit/ fill roles?

Shouldn't make any difference - existing vacant posts will still be there and this is a civil service, not a political, function, so a delay in forming a government shouldn't affect replacement posts. In any event, the Government stays in place until a new one is formed.

There could be delays from the formation of new departments after a new government is in place (the Constitution limits the number of cabinet ministers to 15) but, again the posts will still need to be filled. I don't recall this being an issue in 2016 at any promotion grade.

Grey AP

Asimov2004 wrote: »

Grey AP that's really interesting news if it proves correct. I'm mid 30's on OoM and had been presuming it could be this time next year before I hear anything. I would expect a lot of people are waiting until after the next pay restoration increase in October and then there may be a significant number of retirements. Maybe PAS are just getting ready in case this happens?

Asimov 24, I have heard of one or two people who intend to hold out until October to get an extra 2% on their lump sum, but as their pension is linked to pay increases anyway, there would be no other benefit to staying. Most people who delay would be looking for another increment before retirement if they are not top of the scale yet, or else they need three years after their promotion (if you retire within three years of a promotion, your pension is based on the average salary of your final three years, where it is based on your final salary if more than three years).

The general view seems to be that PO panels can start slowly, because departments are trying to work out what they "owe" the panel (ie how many external appointments they have to accept before they can make internal promotions), but that the pace picks up once that is sorted. People I have talked to think that mid 30s should be appointed this year, probably sooner than later.

Asimov2004

Grey AP you are absolutely right in that the increment will really only affect the lump sum but for some that can be quite substantial, I know of one person who is staying so that they will get an additional €2,500 in their lump sum and that's at AP so presumably worth more at PO level?? From my reading on these threads both of the last two PO panels started off slowly and then were exhausted quite quickly once they got moving, hopefully this one won't take too long! I'm Dublin based so should happen quickly enough either way.

Grey AP

Asimov2004 wrote: »

Grey AP you are absolutely right in that the increment will really only affect the lump sum but for some that can be quite substantial, I know of one person who is staying so that they will get an additional €2,500 in their lump sum and that's at AP so presumably worth more at PO level?? From my reading on these threads both of the last two PO panels started off slowly and then were exhausted quite quickly once they got moving, hopefully this one won't take too long! I'm Dublin based so should happen quickly enough either way.

Yes, seems to be a real mix for the retirees. Most POs coming up to retirement now are pre-1995 and can retire at 60, plus were school leavers on starting so would have their 40 years' service at or before 60. I know one or two who hope to maximise their lump sum by staying on, through the 2% in the national pay agreement in October or by staying for their next increment on the pay scale, or both. There are also some who may not have 40 years at 60 (career break, children, carer etc) but who are considering going a couple of years early and using part of their lump sum to buy back the years. Overall, though, a pretty steady outward flow for the next couple of years and most people I've asked seem to think that our panel will comfortably be gone by year end. Fingers crossed.

Grey AP

Any news?

Grey AP

Any news?

hardybuck

I heard recently that a significant proportion of the panel was female - circa 70%.

A number of appeals have been made and possibly no appointments until those have been completed.

Possibility of further interviews later in the year.

A significant number of complaints about the remote testing.

Asimov2004

hardybuck wrote: »

I heard recently that a significant proportion of the panel was female - circa 70%.

A number of appeals have been made and possibly no appointments until those have been completed.

Possibility of further interviews later in the year.

A significant number of complaints about the remote testing.

Any idea how long the complaints process takes?

Grey AP

hardybuck wrote: »

I heard recently that a significant proportion of the panel was female - circa 70%.

A number of appeals have been made and possibly no appointments until those have been completed.

Possibility of further interviews later in the year.

A significant number of complaints about the remote testing.

Thanks for that, Hardybuck.

Don't know about the M/F ratio overall but it is 50/50 from my department, which would about reflect the AP balance, but it is quite a small number that got through from here, although I'd expect the civil/public service rates to be about that. Perhaps more women from the private sector were successful?

Having been on interview boards for other comps, and had assessments appealed (appeals have become far more frequent in recent years, apparently), I am not aware of appointments from a panel being put on hold because of appeals. In this case, because it is a two year panel, I'd think it more likely that successful appellants would simply be added to the panel. (Out of interest, does anyone know anybody who has made an appeal? I'd assume that nobody on the panel appealed and that they are from people who didn't get on, as that has been my experience of appeals, but perhaps there are people who feel they should be higher up the panel.)

I've also heard that there may be further interviews at year end, which indicates that PAS expects this panel to be gone by then, but PAS is pretty cagey about such things so are unlikely to confirm that beforel they announce it.

Tr1ckieD1ckie

PO senior management role at Revenue.

Any able to shed light on why general roles like this (I can understand specialist ones) which are open to external applicants are not filled from the panel

https://execjobs.irishtimes.com/job/11114/senior-management-level-principal-officer-/?TrackID=24&utm_source=ExecJobs&utm_medium=Display&utm_campaign=Jobs_All_Categories_%e2%82%ac100K%2b

AndrewJRenko

Tr1ckieD1ckie wrote: »

PO senior management role at Revenue.

Any able to shed light on why general roles like this (I can understand specialist ones) which are open to external applicants are not filled from the panel

https://execjobs.irishtimes.com/job/11114/senior-management-level-principal-officer-/?TrackID=24&utm_source=ExecJobs&utm_medium=Display&utm_campaign=Jobs_All_Categories_%e2%82%ac100K%2b

Revenue seem to do their own recruitment, seperate to PAS. In fact, they seem to do their own everything!

Grey AP

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Revenue seem to do their own recruitment, seperate to PAS. In fact, they seem to do their own everything!

PAS runs recruitment for the civil service as a whole and also for individual bodies, such as Revenue, often if they are recruiting for a specific post or need specific qualifications. Revenue regularly recruits at EO level in tax, audit and compliance for instance, or Ag might recruit specialist advisers or inspectors. In this case, the quals, rather than the post, are quite specific, which they weren't for our panel. Presumably, since it is Revenue's gig, it is up to Revenue to advertise, not PAS. Looks like a good job if you are a finance/accountancy type in or around Limerick.

hardybuck

My understanding is that Revenue, and all other Civil Service organisations, have a recruitment licence. Most don't choose to use it too often.

I don't think PAS do any Revenue recruitment - and if they do it's fairly limited.

Conovski

Grey AP wrote: »

Thanks for that, Hardybuck.

Don't know about the M/F ratio overall but it is 50/50 from my department, which would about reflect the AP balance, but it is quite a small number that got through from here, although I'd expect the civil/public service rates to be about that. Perhaps more women from the private sector were successful?

Having been on interview boards for other comps, and had assessments appealed (appeals have become far more frequent in recent years, apparently), I am not aware of appointments from a panel being put on hold because of appeals. In this case, because it is a two year panel, I'd think it more likely that successful appellants would simply be added to the panel. (Out of interest, does anyone know anybody who has made an appeal? I'd assume that nobody on the panel appealed and that they are from people who didn't get on, as that has been my experience of appeals, but perhaps there are people who feel they should be higher up the panel.)

I've also heard that there may be further interviews at year end, which indicates that PAS expects this panel to be gone by then, but PAS is pretty cagey about such things so are unlikely to confirm that beforel they announce it.

I heard of one person who appealed the interview/presentation process because of some IT issue, but was unsuccessful.

I was in touch with PAS to inquire about progress on the panel. There are a few vacancies, some of which are under consideration. So, if there are appeals and complaints, it would appear that they are not delaying the clearance process.

Tr1ckieD1ckie

Advised today by a friend who is a senior civil servant that there are apparently 65 on the panel- no appointments as of yet. No particular reason/barriers for this either, this source attributed it to the lack of government. Hopefully this obstacle looks like it might be cleared in the coming weeks with the FF/FG talks announced today. Source expected it will move reasonably quickly once it gets moving

Molly Keane

Tr1ckieD1ckie wrote: »

Advised today by a friend who is a senior civil servant that there are apparently 65 on the panel- no appointments as of yet. No particular reason/barriers for this either, this source attributed it to the lack of government. Hopefully this obstacle looks like it might be cleared in the coming weeks with the FF/FG talks announced today. Source expected it will move reasonably quickly once it gets moving

Hi first time posting here - am in the 30s on the panel. Getting no info from PAS - any idea whether C19 is going to impact postings? Either speeding up or putting things on hold? And still no government....

hardybuck

Molly Keane wrote: »

Hi first time posting here - am in the 30s on the panel. Getting no info from PAS - any idea whether C19 is going to impact postings? Either speeding up or putting things on hold? And still no government....

Are you for real?

Molly Keane

hardybuck wrote: »

Are you for real?

Yes!

Slydice

They've a webpage about COVID-19 here:
https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/covid19

In the interest of safety of candidates and our staff, all face to face interviews have been postponed at this time. Alternative arrangements utilizing a range of the latest technologies and methodologies have been, and will continue to be, put in place to support the delivery of our campaigns during this unprecedented period.

and one specifically for Candidates but I don't see this competition listed:
https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/covid19/candidates

We will continue to communicate with all applicants and candidates through the normal channel of the Message Board on your Publicjobs.ie account.

and

Postponed Campaigns
In consultation with our clients, a small number of campaigns have been postponed and we are currently identifying new timelines and the optimum ways to deliver the process. If your campaign has been postponed the relevant recruitment unit will be in touch with you directly via your Message Board to notify you of any change in the recruitment process.

and

I don’t see anything on my message board?
If you are ‘in process’ on one of our campaigns, and you have not received any messages on your publicjobs.ie Message Board, please contact at info@publicjobs.ie and we will be happy to assist you.

hardybuck

Molly Keane wrote: »

Yes!

Firstly, there is a Government.

Secondly, yes COVID-19 will have an impact on postings. In the short term, PAS are working flat out to facilitate redeployment and Clerical postings for the likes of DSP.

In the medium term there is a fairly hefty recession on the way, and a massive amount of unplanned public expenditure going towards the crisis, which will have an inevitable impact on recruitment.

Was it definitely you who actually took part in the competition?

Molly Keane

hardybuck wrote: »

Firstly, there is a Government.

Secondly, yes COVID-19 will have an impact on postings. In the short term, PAS are working flat out to facilitate redeployment and Clerical postings for the likes of DSP.

In the medium term there is a fairly hefty recession on the way, and a massive amount of unplanned public expenditure going towards the crisis, which will have an inevitable impact on recruitment.

Was it definitely you who actually took part in the competition?

Yes I did. And it’s equally likely PS would need more management expertise to get through the crisis. Not being in the public service means it’s obviously harder to assess likely impact. And of course I meant new government formation is delayed.

caviardreams

Molly Keane wrote: »

Yes I did. And it’s equally likely PS would need more management expertise to get through the crisis. Not being in the public service means it’s obviously harder to assess likely impact. And of course I meant new government formation is delayed.

Sure they might ideally "need" more managers but there won't be any money to pay for it - we are looking at serious budget deficits for the next while. Honestly I can't see much recruitment going forward except in absolutely essential key areas (finance etc.). Numbers will have to go down (through normal attrition and retirements etc.) rather than going up/staying the same imo.

We are about to enter another era of public sector recruitment pauses, pay cuts etc. imo

hardybuck

Molly Keane wrote: »

Yes I did. And it’s equally likely PS would need more management expertise to get through the crisis. Not being in the public service means it’s obviously harder to assess likely impact. And of course I meant new government formation is delayed.

If the Civil Service needs people to help manage the crisis they aren't looking at this panel for answers.

In addition, last time there was a crisis there was a moratorium on recruitment and promotion for several years.

Ap2020

Hard to tell how this shakes out. The recruitment moratorium that took place last time left a significant mark on the makeup of the civil service, and it might be the case that another moratorium along the same lines simply won't be possible. The average age is now around 46, with over a quarter in the 55 to 64 age bracket. Retirements are expected to ramp up over the next decade, with DPER projecting 1,750 in 2019 to a peak of 2,525 in 2025, before falling back to 2,220 in 2028. Over 85% of POs, 73% of HEOs, and over 60% of APs are expected to retire over the next 10 years.

The desire will be to reduce numbers, for sure. In reducing numbers there will be less need for management. However, the numbers that will be leaving through retirement are stark, especially at senior management levels. It was already going to be a workforce management challenge even at the best of times. If there were no recruitment at PO level just until 2023, you would reduce PO numbers by a third. How many areas can stand to lose a third of all POs - the slack that was there in 2009 to absorb losses isn't there anymore.

source for the figures is here.

The days of competitions taking three and four batches in 2 years is probably gone through, but I can't see how they can afford not to recruit at all for any extended period of time at a senior level and keep the show on the road.

hardybuck

Ap2020 wrote: »

Hard to tell how this shakes out. The recruitment moratorium that took place last time left a significant mark on the makeup of the civil service, and it might be the case that another moratorium along the same lines simply won't be possible. The average age is now around 46, with over a quarter in the 55 to 64 age bracket. Retirements are expected to ramp up over the next decade, with DPER projecting 1,750 in 2019 to a peak of 2,525 in 2025, before falling back to 2,220 in 2028. Over 85% of POs, 73% of HEOs, and over 60% of APs are expected to retire over the next 10 years.

The desire will be to reduce numbers, for sure. In reducing numbers there will be less need for management. However, the numbers that will be leaving through retirement are stark, especially at senior management levels. It was already going to be a workforce management challenge even at the best of times. If there were no recruitment at PO level just until 2023, you would reduce PO numbers by a third. How many areas can stand to lose a third of all POs - the slack that was there in 2009 to absorb losses isn't there anymore.

source for the figures is here.

The days of competitions taking three and four batches in 2 years is probably gone through, but I can't see how they can afford not to recruit at all for any extended period of time at a senior level and keep the show on the road.

What has changed since then is that people can now work until they're 70 if they choose to. This pushes the cliff out a bit.

Projections before that change indicated that about 100 odd people at PO level will retire a year. Maybe 20 A/Secs who will be replaced by POs.

Contrary to your point about slack, I don't think Civil Service numbers have even been higher, certainly not in the last 10-15 years anyway. About 7-8% more staff at the end of 2019 than in 2008, which can partly be explained due to demographics and population growth.

The last moratorium lasted for 6 years, and reduced numbers by 10%. While I don't think we'll see it again, it's worth noting given the current circumstances.

Xofpod

I'm choosing to take the more optimistic viewpoint on this; progress may go slowly but I'm sure they won't want to leaving gaping holes in organisational structures.

Re people being able to work until they're 70, I don't think this necessarily means that many people will want to. The opposite (early retirement) has seemed the preferred choice, at least pre Covid 19. I can't see the nuclear option - compelling people to stay until they're 70 - gaining any traction here unless times are beyond desperate. Also if this was done, it risks the kind of sclerosis in the employment market we've seen in recent years in France, with younger generations frozen out of the public service entirely.

And finally, to add some actual info to my ramblings, my last contact with PAS indicated some slight movement - additional people on the OOM being contacted re clearance, although I'm not sure if any actual placements have yet resuklted.

Grey AP

I'd agree with Xofpod - pretty much all of the POs due to retire in 2020/21 have done their forty years or close enough and have no need, in terms of service or pension, to stay on beyond that, particularly as so many can go at 60 or under when they hit 40 years because they were the school leaver generation of civil servants. Certainly, none that I have spoken to, colleagues in my fairly large department or through the union, have any intention of postponing retirement, except for a few clinging on until September to increase their lump sums. Accordingly, there will still be posts that need filling - in my own place, there are POs who are currently covering two and sometimes three posts and that isn't sustainable, efficient or effective.

Last I heard, one offer has been made and several more candidates approached with vacancies - that was last week and confirmed what someone else had told me. I don't think that many delays will be in PAS - more likely in department HR sections, which will be down to bare bones and focusing on shifting remaining resources around to cope with Covid and Brexit, meaning they won't be passing many PO vacancies on to PAS for the next couple of months. After that, maybe the purse strings will tighten but this is only a panel of 65 or so and it won't even cover retirement vacancies over its lifetime, let alone promotions, resignations and long term sick and maternity leave.

richardjjd

hardybuck wrote: »

If the Civil Service needs people to help manage the crisis they aren't looking at this panel for answers.

I'm not sure that's what was being suggested: I think the poster was saying that there could well be a need for additional management capacity to manage the (longer term) fallout of C19.

And I'm not convinced that total numbers of public sector employees can be taken as a proxy for slack. Whaile the sector is bigger than a decade ago, most of the growth (source), was in the Education. Civil Service numbers definitely increased, but by less than population growth it seems.

hardybuck

richardjjd wrote: »

I'm not sure that's what was being suggested: I think the poster was saying that there could well be a need for additional management capacity to manage the (longer term) fallout of C19.

And I'm not convinced that total numbers of public sector employees can be taken as a proxy for slack. Whaile the sector is bigger than a decade ago, most of the growth (source), was in the Education. Civil Service numbers definitely increased, but by less than population growth it seems.

The poster queried whether the crisis would have an impact on postings, whether speeding them up or slowing them down. I think the answer to the original query is a resounding yes, with the impact being a slowing down.

The poster then posited that the Public Service might need more management expertise to get through the crisis. While this thread is relevant to a Civil Service competition, I would reiterate that I don't think they'll be looking to this panel for answers right now.

My logic is that there are a significant number of projects on hold, or which will be scrapped completely, which will generate a lot of capacity for internal redeployment. There is also going to be a lack of funding which will have an inevitable impact on recruitment.

The Civil Service is circa 7-8% bigger than 2008. I think the population grew by a similar amount?

Tr1ckieD1ckie

many thanks to all for all the additional info/ context and clarifications posted here. Torn between mounting pessimism that the impending crisis (I mean the economic impact to follow the current challenges) will ultimately reduce the ability of the Service to recruit and possibly some optimism that some of us might still get ultimately get an offer from the panel.

Grey AP

Has anyone been in touch with PAS recently? They seem to still be appointing, as there were 8 or 9 new entrants to my department in March (no POs, but off other panels from CO to AP). I would have thought that departments wouldn't be sending in vacancies to appoint someone who will then be sitting at home for a few weeks, but then they might want to start the process so people can come in quickly when the doors are open again.

Also, I assume everyone still on here is on the panel - not that it matters, just wondering.

hardybuck

Grey AP wrote: »

Has anyone been in touch with PAS recently? They seem to still be appointing, as there were 8 or 9 new entrants to my department in March (no POs, but off other panels from CO to AP). I would have thought that departments wouldn't be sending in vacancies to appoint someone who will then be sitting at home for a few weeks, but then they might want to start the process so people can come in quickly when the doors are open again.

Also, I assume everyone still on here is on the panel - not that it matters, just wondering.

Perhaps those appointments involved people who commenced the clearance process in Jan/Feb.

Xofpod

Grey AP wrote: »

Has anyone been in touch with PAS recently? They seem to still be appointing, as there were 8 or 9 new entrants to my department in March (no POs, but off other panels from CO to AP). I would have thought that departments wouldn't be sending in vacancies to appoint someone who will then be sitting at home for a few weeks, but then they might want to start the process so people can come in quickly when the doors are open again.

Also, I assume everyone still on here is on the panel - not that it matters, just wondering.

PO panel is still moving, just very slowly. A few offers have been made in the last month. Still in the top ten AFAIK

mayo londoner

I've read on a couple of threads about people referencing that a large number of retirements are expected in October/November. Any particular reason for this? Is the same expected for County Councils?

tea and coffee

mayo londoner wrote: »

I've read on a couple of threads about people referencing that a large number of retirements are expected in October/November. Any particular reason for this? Is the same expected for County Councils?

I think it has something to do with the restoration of pay under one or other of the pay agreements (Lansdowne?) which means an additional pay bump = additional pension bump once this has fully kicked in by September 2020 .
Someone likely has more exact info on this. I'm not hot on the details.

Conovski

tea and coffee wrote: »

I think it has something to do with the restoration of pay under one or other of the pay agreements (Lansdowne?) which means an additional pay bump = additional pension bump once this has fully kicked in by September 2020 .
Someone likely has more exact info on this. I'm not hot on the details.

It is the public service stability agreement 2018-2020. The final pay increases are due 1st October 2020, so the presumption is that some POs are waiting for that as it will impact lump sums and - dependent on when they became PO I think - their pension.


Here is a question - If I am tagged by my Department, does my HR section have to wait until my position on the panel is reached to offer me a PO position, or can it just proceed and take me off the panel now? This would be good to know.

I have heard some people being offered PO positions in their departments/agencies (all further up the panel than me - all top 10), and have wondered are people below me (I am in the 40s) getting offers because they are being tagged by their departments/agencies and those departments/agencies have positions to fill now.

Tr1ckieD1ckie

Are pensions not index linked in any case?

Conovski

Tr1ckieD1ckie wrote: »

Are pensions not index linked in any case?

I think so. But some people who may have joined pre 95, their final pension is linked to their final salary, so I think the pay increase impacts their pension

Grey AP

Staying until October would increase your tax free lump sum (1.5 times salary after 40 years) by 2%. if you retire on, say, 105 k, then that is an extra 3150 in your pocket. Some people would think that is worth it, others wouldn't, but that is a decision for retiring staff every year.

The October pay rise won't affect your pension, as you get a pro rata increase. However, if you have been three years in the grade, your pension is based on your final salary but if you have been less than three years in your grade, it is calculated on the average of your final three years pay, so some people promoted since 2017 may be staying on to get the three years, which could make quite a difference. People might also stay on to get another increment, although the difference in your pension, half of that and then taxed, would be small enough.

Hardybuck, I'd say you're right - the March appointments are probably for vacancies sent to PAS in January and February. Still, it is interesting that people are being promoted and appointed to, effectively, sit at home for maybe a month or more, as most departments are on skeleton crew (accounts, IT, Covid, maybe Brexit) actually in the building. Everyone else is working remotely, so you wouldn't really be able to begin as you wouldn't be in the building, meet your unit or have any chance to start working in your job. The acid test would be appointments made in April, and possibly May if restrictions stay in place.

Conovski, I think your department can tag you, but can't fill a position out of sequence from the open panel, so if you were 42 and they had a post they wanted to keep for you, they can't do that officially until your number comes up, so they may not send a vacancy in to PAS until you are close, if they want you for it. I have heard that depts (in the pub, so only beer proof) might send in a vacancy and say to PAS that they will wait for x candidate to become available. Also, maybe some of those top tenners are on internal panels as well and being appointed from those.