oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

Wibbs

Uncomfortable though his language choice is, he's not too far wrong. Though I'd not hold up a kip like India as a good example of a democratic "empire", but an empire it is. The US is an "empire", a conglomeration of individual states running most of their stuff, with a central governing body by way of oversight.

China is most certainly an empire and always has been since its inception. The western, mostly European thoughts and concept of small countries often misses that about them and regards it as a country, they don't to nearly the same degree. Take Tibet. In the west we're understandably all WTF about their claim on the place, but to the Chinese imperial mind it has been part of their extended nation/empire.

Much of the Middle East was an empire for a thousand years and one of the aims of various groups in the region want to rebuild that.

Europe? It's been a long story of trying to gather it together as a single entity, from the Greeks on. Rome did it very successfully and when western Rome finally fell, Byzantium took up that aim, then the French had a go at a new Rome under Charlemagne, the Normans were quite successful at their go at it ranging as far as Italy. While throughout right up to the reformation and through various states going at each other the Roman Church was a spiritual, intellectual and often very real empire on top across the continent. Even after the reformation the French had a go, while many of the other European countries decided it was less costly and more valuable to create empires by proxy outside Europe. Hitler giving it a whirl was in a long line of people trying.

As an island people(ditto for the British, or the Swiss islanded by the Alps) we tend to think more on the smaller scale, but even so Britain today is made up of four "nations", a mini empire. Ireland was a nation of clan states well past the medieval. We think of France as a solid country, but not so long ago it was as much a set of provinces with different dialects. Spain has a few languages and provinces, that the whole Iberian setup isn't "Spain" is more a chance of history. Italy and Germany were only unified in the 19th century. So yeah, the history of the world has largely been a trajectory from city states, to larger nations to "empires".

Danzy

Zorya wrote: »

Some people on the thread have mentioned the EU influence on this subject of migration.

For this clip I purposely chose a Twitter account that cannot be written off as a right wing whatever your having yourself etc...

This is Guy Verofstadt I think yesterday speaking to the Lib Dems in Bournemouth. Guy Verofstadt is a Belgian who has served in the EU since 2009. He is slated to be a future President of the European Parliament. Frankly I find him bizarre and scary. Empire??

https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1173157909947133953

Guy Verhofstadt is the EU version of Rees Mogg.

Zorya

I get that, the history bit - but somehow it sounds so boorish spoken out like that.

Actually the thing I disliked most is the idea of the nation state being over - I like the differences between places, and yeah I guess a sense of rootedness or belonging to a certain place. Maybe that is over now. An out-moded idea.

Empire is an odd word - Imperium - imperare - to command. Control. Make order.
supreme power, sole dominion; military authority

A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority. (Wiki) - Hmmmm.

mynamejeff

The wicklow area has two direct provision centers at present , one at the old grand hotel and another at Rathmore

often see them around the town ,

been a bit of hassle but not huge amounts , shoplifting, drunken incidents, a car got stolen and a few more

the most noticeable thing is that they are almost exclusively young males , 18 to 30

almost no older people kids or females , why is that , you would have though that they would be the ones who would need to flee

Ralph Ciffereto

mynamejeff wrote: »

been a bit of hassle but not huge amounts , shoplifting, drunken incidents, a car got stolen and a few more

I'd call a stolen car a bit more than "a bit of hassle".

Let me guess, the guy who did it is still here.

vriesmays

mynamejeff wrote: »

the most noticeable thing is that they are almost exclusively young males , 18 to 30

It's called multiculturalism: ignore gender, religion, class and import hundreds of black males.

Ken.

Mod-Moved from AH to CA. Read the awld charter.

Yurt2

If I was in the pub sitting next to Verhofstadt, I'm pretty sure I'd end up punching him eventually. Self-regarding Brussels dwelling loudmouth. And I'm anti-Brexit and more or less pro-EU for what it's worth.

Jimmy Garlic

jackboy wrote: »

What kind of utter idiots in the audience where cheering and clapping this openly anti democratic nonsense.

They are fanatical and obsessed with the idea of a federal Europe. A homogenised souless blob with proviences run by lickspittles like Leo.

Portsalon

Zorya wrote: »

I get that, the history bit - but somehow it sounds so boorish spoken out like that.

Actually the thing I disliked most is the idea of the nation state being over - I like the differences between places, and yeah I guess a sense of rootedness or belonging to a certain place. Maybe that is over now. An out-moded idea.

Empire is an odd word - Imperium - imperare - to command. Control. Make order.
supreme power, sole dominion; military authority

A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority. (Wiki) - Hmmmm.

Never let nostalgia or sentiment overcome realism! Given what Catholic Ireland was like in the 1950's and 60's, I was delighted that we joined the European Empire in 1973 (the year I did my Leaving Cert, as it happens!).

I'm less enchanted with certain aspects of the expansion of the EU 'empire' in recent years, but all in all it's still a vast improvement on the Ireland that I grew up in - and light years ahead of the one in which my parents were raised.

Zorya

Yurt! wrote: »

If I was in the pub sitting next to Verhofstadt, I'm pretty sure I'd end up punching him eventually. Self-regarding Brussels dwelling loudmouth. And I'm anti-Brexit and more or less pro-EU for what it's worth.

Portsalon wrote: »

Never let nostalgia or sentiment overcome realism! Given what Catholic Ireland was like in the 1950's and 60's, I was delighted that we joined the European Empire in 1973 (the year I did my Leaving Cert, as it happens!).

I'm less enchanted with certain aspects of the expansion of the EU 'empire' in recent years, but all in all it's still a vast improvement on the Ireland that I grew up in - and light years ahead of the one in which my parents were raised.

I thought the early manifestation of the EEC was a better idea than where things have gone or are going. A loose economic federation with friendly cultural ties. Now there is a sense of an authoritarian imperiousness. Socially engineered migration is but one example of it.

Danzy

Portsalon wrote: »

Never let nostalgia or sentiment overcome realism! Given what Catholic Ireland was like in the 1950's and 60's, I was delighted that we joined the European Empire in 1973 (the year I did my Leaving Cert, as it happens!).

I'm less enchanted with certain aspects of the expansion of the EU 'empire' in recent years, but all in all it's still a vast improvement on the Ireland that I grew up in - and light years ahead of the one in which my parents were raised.

Off topic in reality.

Putting something that is not related to the EU on its shoulders.

jimwallace197

The concept of the eu is a funny one I have to admit, a collection of sovereign states dictated to by un-elected eu bureaucratics who especially when it comes to us, have complete control over our policies and decisions otherwise we risk their rath.

We as a small country cannot sustain the level of immigration we are currently experiencing, this needs to be talked about and dealt with. We are not being represented correctly.

What we have is a bunch of upper middle class, wealthy politicians who have no concept of what its like to live in a working class or rural community. They have no understanding of the potential impact on services in the local community as a result of these refugees.

This is not simply a matter of, there are people in need and we should do everything possible to help them, its a matter of we should help ourselves first before we can help other peoples. Look at our health service, housing accommodation crisis, brexit crisis, public transport crisis to name a few. We are a small vulnerable country completely dependent on international trade which is starting to flounder.

Solutions, get that current f**ker out of the office of An Taoiseach who denigrated it by using his influence as leader of this country to set up a private meeting with Kylie Minogue for gods sake. Consistently pandering to the EU. Showing zero backbone when it comes to insurance fraud and his own party, never missing a chance to take advantage of an LGTB opportunity. He has no ancestry in this country, no heritage and obviously no understanding of it.

Renua had the right ideas in a lot of ways but unfortunately the leader, Lucinda Creighton was an idiot, vehemently against any abortion amongst other things.

And to finish, anyone using the argument that the irish were once refugees and immigrants needs to wise up. The Irish people (whom I am very proud of) that immigrated, represented us in the best possible way, working extremely hard and building up a reputation of this country that has still benefited us to this day, hence a reason why we have such strong FDI and more than likely the number one reason why we are still relatively affluent as a country.

Eric Cartman

Danzy wrote: »

Lol.

The biggest fans of this radical free market experiment tend to be rich, call it solidarity or internationalism or free market.

The class element is the prime.

and the biggest fans of stealing from the rich to give to the lazy are socialists without jobs.

Everyone is greedy and selfish, thats just humanity. Alteast capitalists are honest and admit they want the things for themselves rather than dressing it up as a benefit to all.

suicide_circus

At least Guy "Charlemagne" Verofstadt wears his cartoon levels of villainy on his sleeve

tayto lover

Does anyone have a list of the places where these people have been put in Ireland and know why these places have been chosen?

Harry Palmr

tayto lover wrote: »

Does anyone have a list of the places where these people have been put in Ireland and know why these places have been chosen?

http://www.asylumarchive.com/ for the places if not the reasons.

alastair

mynamejeff wrote: »

The wicklow area has two direct provision centers at present , one at the old grand hotel and another at Rathmore

often see them around the town ,

been a bit of hassle but not huge amounts , shoplifting, drunken incidents, a car got stolen and a few more

the most noticeable thing is that they are almost exclusively young males , 18 to 30

almost no older people kids or females , why is that , you would have though that they would be the ones who would need to flee

The actual breakdown of asylum seekers here in recent times has been circa 50% men, the remainder being women and children. Presumably different DP centres are geared toward different applicant scenarios.

Ulysses Gaze

Zorya wrote: »

Some people on the thread have mentioned the EU influence on this subject of migration.

For this clip I purposely chose a Twitter account that cannot be written off as a right wing whatever your having yourself etc...

This is Guy Verofstadt I think yesterday speaking to the Lib Dems in Bournemouth. Guy Verofstadt is a Belgian who has served in the EU since 2009. He is slated to be a future President of the European Parliament. Frankly I find him bizarre and scary. Empire??

https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1173157909947133953

When you consider what he's saying and see the countries slated to join, ultra-Nationalist countries such as Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, I don't think the EU has really thought this "Empire" through.

It may have worked with 15 countries at a similar level of First World living standards. But bolting on countries that won't be net contributors when you lose a huge contributor like Britain, is a recipe for disaster.

It's like to old Soviet Union in some respects.

The EU will collapse in 20/25 years max at this rate.

WB Yokes

Nice bit of spin today by the media apparently now the Oughterard residents are against "inhumane direct provision centres" i wonder who was in charge of handing out the placards.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/locals-concerned-about-oughterard-asylum-centre-to-protest-around-the-clock-1.4018911%3fmode=amp

Eric Cartman

WB Yokes wrote: »

Nice bit of spin today by the media apparently now the Oughterard residents are against "inhumane direct provision centres" i wonder who was in charge of handing out the placards.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/locals-concerned-about-oughterard-asylum-centre-to-protest-around-the-clock-1.4018911%3fmode=amp

use the lefts own rhetoric against them. Funny how they all want to end direct provision till they realise that it means Ireland won't be blighted by these migrants anymore.

Spanish Eyes

The anger and opposition to these placements is all down to lack of consultation and information.

Parachute them in, deal with the opposition to it when the deed is done, and it will all end well is the way it will go for all of us eventually.

4068ac1elhodqr

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

When you consider what he's saying and see the countries slated to join, ultra-Nationalist countries such as Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, I don't think the EU has really thought this "Empire" through.

It may have worked with 15 countries at a similar level of First World living standards. But bolting on countries that won't be net contributors when you lose a huge contributor like Britain, is a recipe for disaster.

It's like to old Soviet Union in some respects.

The EU will collapse in 20/25 years max at this rate.

Would give it 10yrs at best, it will collapse but refrom into 3 or 4 economic regions (NSWE).

The next 6 (Wester Balkans) to join, will have roughly half the GDP Per Person of Germany, who's going to pay for all this, once the UK leave and Italy (also net cont) might be gone before too long also.

Let's hope Turkey isn't offered membership, only last month they threatend to unlease 3million or so into the EU/Greece, if more fresh money wasn't forthcoming.

Danzy

When you look at the ECB interest rates and return to QE, at 20bn a month.

Hard to see it last.

And that is being done in good times globally.

What will it take to keep the Euro economy moving when the next global slow down comes.

WB Yokes

Fancies himself as a bit of a hardman this Loughnane fella

https://mobile.twitter.com/hermannkelly/status/1173215256576966656

Spanish Eyes

Oughterard will have a DP/Reception centre come what may.

And will all be forgotten in a few weeks. Just like Ballaghaderdeen and Lisdoonvarna and so on.

And on we go.

Eric Cartman

WB Yokes wrote: »

Fancies himself as a bit of a hardman this Loughnane fella

https://mobile.twitter.com/hermannkelly/status/1173215256576966656

what an absolute tool. that GARN is a massive astroturf front for PbP anyway.

Danzy

WB Yokes wrote: »

Fancies himself as a bit of a hardman this Loughnane fella

https://mobile.twitter.com/hermannkelly/status/1173215256576966656

His father it seems is the same, made his neighbour's life a living hell for years.

Arghus

Danzy wrote: »

His father it seems is the same, made his neighbour's life a living hell for years.

I'm a leftie myself, but I think Joe is an absolute gowl. I've seen him in action ranting and roaring in people's faces, his antics piss me off.

His father taught me maths, have to say he struck me as an absolute gentleman.

ChikiChiki

What did Grealish say exactly that is considered racist? I am not seeing it. Disappointed to see a Galway Social Democrats councillor shout racism on twitter.